I'll talk about Roy anyday

[Zeonix]

Hey MookieRah, i read your guide and it helped me some. I recomend this guide to any person who wants to have a decent or better Roy. I'm upset that Roy is 18th on the new tier list

So anyone that wants to talk to me about Roy is welcome.

 

[rhan]

Young Link > Roy

Anyone wanna argue the fact? :3

 

[Omni_Smash]

Yeah, actually what makes YL that much better?

They really are about equal if Roy knows what he should be doing, which is lighting the little brat on fire at every turn :3

 

[Sethlon]

Young link has;
1. A great projectile game which makes it easy to rack up damage and overall irritate his opponent
2. Good and safe finishers in dair / dsmash
3. Is just as fast as roy
4. Combos just about as well as roy
5. Has a slightly better recovery
6. Has a good grab game on chars outside of fastfallers

Also, MookieRah's guide is suuuper old. You should check out Exarch's, it could help you even more

 

[Zeonix]

Yeah, Y. Link is 17th and Roy is 18th on the tier list. I've always been a fan of Link over Y. Link. I usaully chose the more powerful over the faster clones. Thats why I play Roy instead of Marth. But yes Y. Link does have a slightly better recovery and has "Range" or projectiles. But overall there potential is about the same.

 

[Omni_Smash]

Young link has;
1. A great projectile game which makes it easy to rack up damage and overall irritate his opponent
2. Good and safe finishers in dair / dsmash
3. Is just as fast as roy
4. Combos just about as well as roy
5. Has a slightly better recovery
6. Has a good grab game on chars outside of fastfallers

Also, MookieRah's guide is suuuper old. You should check out Exarch's, it could help you even more

1. Ok, I give you that, but to counter it I say that Roy has better range with his sword than Y.Link but he does have the whole "center of sword is stronger" thing going on with everything except D-tilt (which should be used alot) and D-smash.

2. Roy can kill at lower pecentages because of his strength, though his D-air isn't exactly as safe as Y.links he can still kill off the side like no tommorrow where as Y.link is a damage racker with very few options for KO. (Similar to the Doc vs. Mario argument)

How is D-Smash safe, aside from being fast or as an edge guard? Or for that matter how in the heck can you set up for it reliably? All I have to do with Roy is space my fair and D-tilt immediately after which is just as fast as Y.Link's D-smash... and Y.link doesn't really want to eat Roy's attacks anyways because of his weight problem.

D-air is viably safer but unless it's off stage a well timed counter/sheild grab ***** it, I see how it could be combo-ed into though so I'll give you D-air.


3. True, they balance out on speed but I hardly see this as a point in Y. Link's favor OVER Roy, it's an equality attribute.

4. Hm.... Ok, I can see that... they are both decent with combos... but again this isn't in Y.link's favor OVER Roy.

5. hmm... maybe with the hookshot which is shorter than Link's... but his Up-B get's ***** by Roy's counter among other things if Im not mistaken.

6. Sure, so does Roy with the same broken range as Marth(or close to it)

They balance out pretty well but I believe Roy is better because he is stronger, where as Y.Link is a damage racker with few KO options.

 

[Zeonix]

I agree that it is much easier to kill with Roy, considering he is my #1 main. Some people might think that Y. Link is better cus he has the ability to combo more then Roy. And i don't know why you are going on about Roy's D-Smash. It's ok but not generally his best kill move. But yes his down-tilt should be used alot to get his openents in the air to combo.

There is an arguement about Roy's and Marth's range of thier swords. Of course if you look at the frames and there hitboxes, they hit the same length. But Roy's sword hits harder at the center and MArth's at the tip as Omni mentioned. But they both have the same range.

I also agree that Roy is better becuase he is stronger and Y.Link doesn't have a great finisher/kill move.

 

[Omni_Smash]

I just mention it because it is also "stronger at the Tip" where as most of his moves are "Stronger at the center", I just mentioned it because it is there that's all :D

Not bragging about his D-Smash in anyway... lol, which is longer that Y.link's... XD

 

[Keblerelf]

...and has a lot more ending lag too.

 

[Zeonix]

Ok. i'm just trying to get enough post were i'm not a smash n00b. Man it agrevates me even though it's just based on post and not skill, Lol...

 

[Zeonix]

Anyone else disagree with anything on the new tier list?????????????????

 

[Omni_Smash]

hmm... you're right Kebler, I wasn't thinking about that... good point.

 

[rhan]

Yeah, actually what makes YL that much better?

They really are about equal if Roy knows what he should be doing, which is lighting the little brat on fire at every turn :3

I got the Goron tunic! :3

Pwned I win. Good ****e.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I'd argue that Young Link's dair and dsmash are not safe finishers, as they have a lot of lag if you miss.

 

[CQC]

lolz

I got the Goron tunic! :3

Pwned I win. Good ****e.

thass my boy turhan!

 

[CQC]

LOLZ these noobs cant handle your words of distress lol

 

[rhan]

Anyone else disagree with anything on the new tier list?????????????????

I do. IMO.

Link = High of Mid
Samus = High
Young Link = High of Low
Falco = High

I'd argue that Young Link's dair and dsmash are not safe finishers, as they have a lot of lag if you miss.

L-Cancel his dair. D-Smash is faster then you think. It does have some ending lag to it. If I miss Roy, no problem. I know what his next move is gonna be(CC F-Smash) before I get hit. Just DI it or tech off the ground when it connects. And insted of the F-Smash he'll probably grab. But more then likly he's gonna CC F-Smash. :/

They balance out pretty well but I believe Roy is better because he is stronger, where as Y.Link is a damage racker with few KO options.

It's basically a pretty even match through out. But Young Link can do more to Roy then Roy can do to a Young Link. Young Link is a damage racker with a few GREAT K.O. options. Nair can penetrate about anything due to it's priority. D-Smash is a quick kill, yet somewhat of a risk. Dash attack is a good knock off into edge hog. Dair is risky but pays off if connected in the air. Just knock the Roy into the air with something that sends upward (Bomberang/Falling Uair) then finish with the Nair/Dair.

 

[Zeonix]

Thank you Rhan for saying "Real men play Melee" it's so true. I hate argueing with my Brawl friends that melee takes so much more skill becuase of A-T's.

 

[Zeonix]

I'd argue that Young Link's dair and dsmash are not safe finishers, as they have a lot of lag if you miss.

I completely agree

 

[rhan]

Thank you Rhan for saying "Real men play Melee" it's so true. I hate argueing with my Brawl friends that melee takes so much more skill becuase of A-T's.

Lol It's all good. I'm just gald to see more Melee supporters.

Edit: If you click my sig it'll take you to the "1000 Controller Salute to SSBM" thread. If you love Melee more, CONTRIBUTE!

 

[elvenarrow3000]

L-canceled dairs are still pretty laggy...

 

[rhan]

Ok yeah but still. If the Young Link player is smart he's not trying to hit you with a dair while on the ground. And if he does then he's gonna try to get you from behind because then if you do shield it then he won't get punished by a shield grabed and give him time to L-Cancel.

 

[Omni_Smash]

I got the Goron tunic! :3

Pwned I win. Good ****e.

lol, play OoT again and let a fire keese run into you when you are wearing the goron tunic... you still light on fire :D

Pwned,

btw I love Zelda and I would normally side with link in any incarnation.

 

[Omni_Smash]

I do. IMO.

Link = High of Mid
Samus = High
Young Link = High of Low
Falco = High



L-Cancel his dair. D-Smash is faster then you think. It does have some ending lag to it. If I miss Roy, no problem. I know what his next move is gonna be(CC F-Smash) before I get hit. Just DI it or tech off the ground when it connects. And insted of the F-Smash he'll probably grab. But more then likly he's gonna CC F-Smash. :/



It's basically a pretty even match through out. But Young Link can do more to Roy then Roy can do to a Young Link. Young Link is a damage racker with a few GREAT K.O. options. Nair can penetrate about anything due to it's priority. D-Smash is a quick kill, yet somewhat of a risk. Dash attack is a good knock off into edge hog. Dair is risky but pays off if connected in the air. Just knock the Roy into the air with something that sends upward (Bomberang/Falling Uair) then finish with the Nair/Dair.

XD.... I agree that in all respects it is a close matchup and that Y.Link has got some major stuff going for him. I still see a well timed counter from Roy messing up any finishing move that Y.link tries on him in the air though... and since when does Y.Link really want to eat one of Roy's F-Smashes?

I'd really like to see someone who is proficeint enough to tech everyone of Roy's F-Smashes. Then I'd learn how to play Y.link right :D

My answer to CC- a Y.link's D-smash would be to D-tilt (at low percentages) and F-air then Forward Smash or just foward smash after the D-tilt depending on where link thinks that he is going to try and DI. Or I could start my dancing blade or try neutral B, there is a lot to be done.

It really depends on if the Roy is used to playing against a Y.link, then he can play prediction with counter and go for gimping Y.link's Up-B.


Oh and dash attack gets pretty much wasted by dancing blade and D-tilt and Fair doesn't it?

 

[rhan]

lol, play OoT again and let a fire keese run into you when you are wearing the goron tunic... you still light on fire :D

Pwned

Touche...

XD.... I agree that in all respects it is a close matchup and that Y.Link has got some major stuff going for him. I still see a well timed counter from Roy messing up any finishing move that Y.link tries on him in the air though... and since when does Y.Link really want to eat one of Roy's F-Smashes?

Well the counter will mess things up but Young Link can just recover from the counter easy (Unless it's one of those restarded ones that happen at high damages...), And no one wants to get hit by one of Roy's strongest moves. But sometimes you have to take risks.

I'd really like to see someone who is proficeint enough to tech everyone of Roy's F-Smashes. Then I'd learn how to play Y.link right :D

It's not easy but possible. But once the player's damage is at about 90 or so it'll be harder.

My answer to CC- a Y.link's D-smash would be to D-tilt (at low percentages) and F-air then Forward Smash or just foward smash after the D-tilt depending on where link thinks that he is going to try and DI. Or I could start my dancing blade or try neutral B, there is a lot to be done.

That'll basically eff up any Young Link. Neutral B isn't good while any character isn't in a helpless state. It's better used as an edgegaurd.

It really depends on if the Roy is used to playing against a Y.link, then he can play prediction with counter and go for gimping Y.link's Up-B.

Oh and dash attack gets pretty much wasted by dancing blade and D-tilt and Fair doesn't it?

A well timed counter will gimp the Young Link. But you'll have to be pretty confident that it will work in order to use it.

And I would answer your question but I have no training partner with me at this time.

 

[handsockpuppet]

whoah...i just saw the new Tier List...that thing is wack. Sheik above falco...Jigs above Samus and Ics and the same as C. Falcon...Pikachu above Roy and T. Link...DK (who everyone thought was a joke until Bum) and Luigi above Mario (though i must say i thought Luigi should be higher)...Marth evening fox...Jeez!

 

[Apples]

The biggest reasons I'd put Y.Link above Roy are because:
1. Roy's aerials are awful.
2. Because Roy has a limited range of moves that he should be using, it makes him a bit more predictable than Y. Link.
3. Plus Y. Link has projectile game, and he at least has opportunities to gimp (i.e. run off the ledge > nair) that he can reasonably recover from. Roy can't do this because: A. He has horrible aerials that would more likely help the opponent recover (Save for his bair, which he can fall back from the edge with. But that edgeguard is too specific to situation) B. To make things worse for Roy, he is a fast faller, with a bad recovery. So, if he hits the enemy off stage, there's a decent chance they can make it back before he can because of how weak his aerials are.
4. Further, if Roy was to stay on stage and edgeguard... what does he have? Dtilt? Doesn't cut it. The final DED hit tilted down is okay. Too laggy, and you have to start it early. Because of his inability to control the edge well, he's forced to predict their method of getting up from the ledge with Fsmashes or Dtilts. It works sometimes, but in many situations Roy can't do anything because he's too slow. Plus, if he hits with anything else other than the Fsmash(to kill) or the Dtilt (to combo) HE CAN'T REALLY COMBO FROM THEM. Maybe Usmash, but... you shouldn't be using Usmash to edgeguard if you're playing for serious.

That's my take.

 

[rhan]

whoah...i just saw the new Tier List...that thing is wack. Sheik above falco......Marth evening fox...Jeez!

Shiek is waaaay better then Falco. Falco is a horrible character. He can get easily gimped and his stun time is awful.

Pikachu above Roy and T. Link

If I see this mistake made again I'm gonna burn someone....

 

[handsockpuppet]

4. Further, if Roy was to stay on stage and edgeguard... what does he have? Dtilt? Doesn't cut it. The final DED hit tilted down is okay. Too laggy, and you have to start it early. Because of his inability to control the edge well, he's forced to predict their method of getting up from the ledge with Fsmashes or Dtilts. It works sometimes, but in many situations Roy can't do anything because he's too slow. Plus, if he hits with anything else other than the Fsmash(to kill) or the Dtilt (to combo) HE CAN'T REALLY COMBO FROM THEM. Maybe Usmash, but... you shouldn't be using Usmash to edgeguard if you're playing for serious.

That's my take.

I believe that Roy has a pretty good edgeguard game. You forgot the neutral B, as noobish as it seams, it goes slightly down and is better at the tip. this makes it very useful edguarding. and even though you can do the final DED down, the best course of action is the nuetral DED 3rd or 4th hit. Dtilt pops them up, so scrap that. Usmash spikes, that's the only reason to do that. and you could technically Dair, but i wouldn't suggest it. it can be hard to hit at times, and it's only a meteor smash. against Fox and Falco i like to counter. you can always do Fsash, lol.

Shiek is waaaay better then Falco. Falco is a horrible character. He can get easily gimped and his stun time is awful.

In my opinion, Falco should be #1 (and just below Fox was alright). he has amazing combo potential. his shorthopped lazers can actually serve in doing pushback, his Dtilt pops the enemy up like Roy's, his wavedash is better then sheik's and fox's, his SHFFL is better the Fox, his Dair is better then Sheik's and Fox's, and his reflector is better for setting up combos. but since this is the Roy boards, let's move away from Falco.

If I see this mistake made again I'm gonna burn someone....

Spoiler

let it go you pyromaniac.

 

[rhan]

In my opinion, Falco should be #1 (and just below Fox was alright). he has amazing combo potential. his shorthopped lazers can actually serve in doing pushback, his Dtilt pops the enemy up like Roy's, his wavedash is better then sheik's and fox's, his SHFFL is better the Fox, his Dair is better then Sheik's and Fox's, and his reflector is better for setting up combos. but since this is the Roy boards, let's move away from Falco.

LOL

Falco amazing? You can either roll pass the lazers or just jump over them. He gets chain grabed by most of the characters. Easy off stage gimps. Horrible recovery. Fire bird has no start up fire. FALCO'S WAVEDASH BETTER THEN SHIEK'S??? AND FOX'S???

I'm done. It's a waste of time now....

let it go you pyromaniac.

*Picks up tourch*

 

[Neverender]

*Picks up torch from rhan's elven hands* This is what you do.
*Burns brawl*
There. It's all good.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

whoah...i just saw the new Tier List...that thing is wack. Sheik above falco...Jigs above Samus and Ics and the same as C. Falcon...Pikachu above Roy and T. Link...DK (who everyone thought was a joke until Bum) and Luigi above Mario (though i must say i thought Luigi should be higher)...Marth evening fox...Jeez!

I think the new tier list is pretty good. Sheik definitely is better than Falco, as Falco gets gimped really easily and his combos fluctuate wildly depending on player, matchup and stage. You don't get the same kind of consistency.

Jigglypuff is definitely better than Samus. Samus falls apart under high pressure. ICs can get taken apart pretty easily by any character than can separate them, so Jigglypuff is probably still better there. Falcon is above Jigglypuff... dunno what you're talking about there.

Pikachu is definitely better than Roy and Young Link. He's basically a mini-Fox. Wall infinites, strong usmash, high altitude follow up, low percentage semi-spike gimp, very fast, chainthrow on fastfallers... he might even do to be a little higher. Although he does get chainthrown, so there's that.

DK is really a lot better than people give him credit for. He has a few problems with his shield, but he's a very solid character. Luigi is also definitely better than Mario. He's got better kill options, a better aerial game, better mobility, arguably better recovery... etc.

Marth isn't even with Fox. He's a little below.

*Picks up torch from rhan's elven hands* This is what you do.
*Burns brawl*
There. It's all good.

Why elven hands? Link is Hylian.

EDIT: Editted for stupid typos. Stupid Brawl sucks nuts.

 

[handsockpuppet]

for the guy above me, the new Tier list shows the points (which I like). but if you look at it, C. Falcon has the same amount of points as Jiggs, and Fox has the same amount of points as Marth. My guess is they're placing them by seniority. and for most of the characters, you're looking at their weakness, not their strength. Samus can rake damage with spamming projectiles at a distance (meaning avoiding pressure) and then super wavedash or otherwise go in for a kill, which Samus is better at then, oh, say Y. Link (i suggest you change yours before you get torch'd).

anyway, onto Roy. When I got Brawl, I was sad Roy wasn't in it. But then I was happy, because even though Roy was great, I can't say I liked him for his games. I thought the Fire Emblem Games were pretty good, but they got boring after a while. Personally, I like advanced Wars better. And I've never played Roy's game (I think it's still not out in America). Plus, all the leaders in FE had plain personality. Nevertheless, Roy is a sexy beast, but i just kinda picked him up (even before I knew what FE was). In Brawl, my main is Wario, who stars in my all-time favorite series, Wario Ware (and I like Wario Land too). my secondary is King DDD, who's my favorite character in my much loved Kirby games. But now I'm pretty bored of Brawl, but I am not bored of Melee.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

FRICK!! Now I'm doing it. I don't even play Brawl.

The points are just an average of votes. They don't really mean anything.

And characters are defined by their weaknesses, not by their strengths. Samus can't rake up damage if your playing against say Falco and he's spamming lasers at you, or Sheik with needles or Marth with his sword. And superwavedashing isn't that easy to do. And I'm not disputing that Samus is better than Young Link, the tier lists reflect that too.

 

[rhan]

*Picks up torch from rhan's elven hands* This is what you do.
*Burns brawl*
There. It's all good.

Barrack Obama is trying to have a holiday based around this. You must burn, mutilate, or destroy any copy of Brawl you see on March 9th at 5:00 p.m. eastern time.

If he doesn't see this recorded and posted on Youtube. He'll find you and throw you in a deep well. Then maybe throw a few stones at you. The person he finds with the best display of destruction, he'll give you the honor of being president for a day.

As Cinder would say. "Break your Brawl"

 

[bahamutz69]

i just sold my copy today :O

 

[elvenarrow3000]

If Barack Obama actually had a "Burn Your Brawl" day, I would vote for him as dictator for life.

 

[handsockpuppet]

LOL, wasn't he in a commercial with it or something?

 

[Omni_Smash]

O_O seriously? He's with us on this? (sarcasm evident throught post)

Maybe I've misjudged the man, anyone who condems brawl obviously has it going on. {/sarcasm}

I would love to see a pretty well put together commercial of this "holiday".

 

[Sethlon]

Actually, it'd be more likely that Obama would be for Brawl, what with his emphasis on change.