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Ike

Kirby knight

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Yeah, I think the most fair thing to do would be to have 2 reps from Fire Emblems considered to be English only, and Japan to have their two FE reps.

an ex

Ike, Lyndis US

Sigurd, Marth JPN

I know life isn't fair but still...FE characters are almost unlike out of any other series that are being considered for SSBB because they have so many important characters. So it would be best to appese both the US and the JPN.
 

Kabyk-Greenmyst

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Well, by the looks of it, I think there will be exactly 2 FE characters. Not 2 in respect to Melee, two completely separate and unique characters, individuals.

the only question now is, does Sakurai realize how the hair colors work in FE? Will he realize how there are two FE hair colors, with a third color being growing more popular? That would be Blue and Red, then Green, respectively. If he understands that, then our second FE character will be most likely red-haired, although green does have a chance. This leaves:

Roy, Lyndis, Eliwood, Ephraim, Eirika, [Mikaya&Sothe?] and the other red and green haired heroes from previous FE games.
 

Wyvern

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Does anyone have any info on this Sigurd fellow? Pictures, origin, weapon proficiency, etc. I've heard his name thrown around a lot (I think I remember hearing that Sakurai really likes him), but I know nothing about him.

Anyway, if Sakurai was comfortable putting two Fire Emblem characters into Melee when few people in the U.S. had so much as heard of the series, surely nobody would complain about three FE characters in Brawl now that we've finally been let into the loop. Given that, there's a good shot that there will be one Japanese representative (Marth or this Sigurd guy, probably, as much as I would hate to see both Marth and Ike in the game together), one U.S. fan favorite (Lyn or Hector from our very first game), and Ike could be considered neutral.
 

Kabyk-Greenmyst

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There was really only one FE character in Melee, considering one was a clone. I tend to think, due to the clone policy in Melee, that now it is not the character themselves that count towards the total character roster, it is their moveset. There was only 1 FE moveset in Melee, so it only counts as one character, although my main was Roy.

This is precisely why I said that there would be 2 FE characters in Brawl, because there was one in Melee. So it fits to have 1 Japanese and 1 US character, and I'm sure Sakurai considers Ike the US one, because that's the way they think over there. If a game gets stained with english letters, its now ours for some reason.
 

UltimaLuminaire

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I really don't understand what you mean by that Kabyk-Greenmyst isn't Ike popular world-wide? so I think someone FE7( The first Fire Emblem in the US) Has a good shot of making it in. Lyndis has a great chance of making into brawl due to her huge fanbase over here in America not to mention that she's the first female lord as well.

Anyway I'm not really to fond of 1 Fire Emblem game having more than one rep. ex Like since now Ike is in I don't think the Black Knight should be in because of that reason. Since Fire Emblem spans 10 games I really think that other characters from the other FE's should be explored.
-Lyndis is the first female lord in the west. I believe FE2 had the first female lord, and a magic user no less, but I could be wrong since I never bothered trying to play it. Personally, I'm also hoping for more FE characters to make the cut, though I'm not too fond of the Black Knight.

-Now, speaking to the people who have a beef with something such as Marth, Ike, and Sigurd looking too similar, I wish to direct all of your attention at Japan itself. Look how homogenous it is! I'm sure Sakurai is grappling with all of your concerns, but he lives in a world where picking out the differences in similarities is like second nature (amusingly, "the nail that sticks out is hammered down," courtesy of Niche, is also second nature). It's a possibility, though, that Sakurai will try to mix things up and prevent Marth from making it in for the very reasons all of you have put forth, but I'd like everyone who is not used to this way of thinking to keep this in mind none the less.

-Do people here think it's impossible for Roy to be reborn? I mean, they seriously copped out on Roy, as his Melee incarnation does absolutely no justice to his actual power (sadly). I wouldn't rule out the possibility of Roy being "de-cloned" before the launch of Brawl.

Does anyone have any info on this Sigurd fellow? Pictures, origin, weapon proficiency, etc. I've heard his name thrown around a lot (I think I remember hearing that Sakurai really likes him), but I know nothing about him.
I don't have any pictures. There should be one towards the beginning of the thread somewhere. A very good picture, in fact. As for origin, he comes from the 4th FE game called Fire Emblem: Geneology of the Holy War (Seisen no Keifu?). It was released back in 1999 for the Super Nintendo, technically making it the last release for the system if you don't count FE5 (Thracia 776, the hardest FE). It became wildly popular, taking #1 even among next generation games. Sigurd's name comes from the Norse mythological hero of the same name (the weilder of Balmung, etc). He is the first main protagonist in the game, and a major decendant of Baldo, permitting him to use the holy sword Tyrfing (a spectacularly godly weapon). He has the highest proficiancy in swords, but he can use lances as well. His stats are some of the best in the game, excelling in Strength, Speed, Skill, and, to some extent, Defence. This makes him highly versatile, and essentially your frontline elite. Ike himself is a semi-clone of Sigurd, but with a different fighting style, no horse, and no Tyrfing. Ike also has that overkill speed, but that's another matter entirely (and the mechanics of the games would be far ill suited for this thread or this board in general). You can find more in-depth information about his history on wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigurd_(Fire_Emblem)#Sigurd

In any case, there's a reason why a few people cry out that Sigurd is overrated. For the most part, he should be. He can carry his whole army on his own two shoulders should the player wish to do things that way.
 

Kabyk-Greenmyst

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-Now, speaking to the people who have a beef with something such as Marth, Ike, and Sigurd looking too similar, I wish to direct all of your attention at Japan itself. Look how homogenous it is! I'm sure Sakurai is grappling with all of your concerns, but he lives in a world where picking out the differences in similarities is like second nature. It's a possibility, though, that Sakurai will try to mix things up and prevent Marth from making it in for the very reasons all of you have put forth, but I'd like everyone who is not used to this way of thinking to keep this in mind none the less.

-Do people here think it's impossible for Roy to be reborn? I mean, they seriously copped out on Roy, as his Melee incarnation does absolutely no justice to his actual power (sadly). I wouldn't rule out the possibility of Roy being "de-cloned" before the launch of Brawl.
-Clearly didn't read my rant on hair colors for FE lords. Sakurai seems to understand all the games the characters come from, which is great. He'll understand that Blue is not THE hair color of FE. Red and Green also are main Lord hair colors. I would be really surprised if Sakurai passed this fact up and there were no non-blue FE Lords in Brawl.

-I wouldn't say Roy's totally cut, but there are more popular and liked Red/Green haired Lords. Also, even though he was my main, Roy was in to promote his game FE6, which is obviously not new anymore.
 

RBinator

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Maybe I'm getting lost here, but how does hair color matter here, to those actually using it as some kind of point?

On the other hand Sakurai still has surprises for us, because if I remember correctly, people been debating if the FE stage was from FE: PoR since 2006. Sakurai seems to love playing mind games, as the stage doesn't come from any particular FE game.

To avoid going too far off topic, I would expect that as we got more updates, even non-FE related, we'll see more of Ike's moves and thus have a big impact on the whole "Is Ike a Marth clone?" argument.
 

UltimaLuminaire

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-Clearly didn't read my rant on hair colors for FE lords. Sakurai seems to understand all the games the characters come from, which is great. He'll understand that Blue is not THE hair color of FE. Red and Green also are main Lord hair colors. I would be really surprised if Sakurai passed this fact up and there were no non-blue FE Lords in Brawl.

-I wouldn't say Roy's totally cut, but there are more popular and liked Red/Green haired Lords. Also, even though he was my main, Roy was in to promote his game FE6, which is obviously not new anymore.
I read that a while ago and I understand. I wasn't addressing the issue of hair color for all the lords in general, just the misunderstanding between those specific character designs and their hair colors. The reason I didn't want to bring it up was simply because I'm still a bit confused as to what I think of your argument about red and green hair colors becomming more dominant in terms of popularity. I'm one of those guys who won't select a hair color over personal preference (aka, I'm not going to choose Eliwood just because he's red haired, or Lyn because she's green. I'm going to choose Lyn because I like her personallity.) I also don't know a thing about what Sakurai is thinking. In other words, I'm not really fit to argue your point.
 

the grim lizard

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Maybe I'm getting lost here, but how does hair color matter here, to those actually using it as some kind of point?

On the other hand Sakurai still has surprises for us, because if I remember correctly, people been debating if the FE stage was from FE: PoR since 2006. Sakurai seems to love playing mind games, as the stage doesn't come from any particular FE game.
Sakurai is the ultimate mind-gamer. That's why he's so well-suited for making Smash. :chuckle:
 

Kabyk-Greenmyst

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I read that a while ago and I understand. I wasn't addressing the issue of hair color for all the lords in general, just the misunderstanding between those specific character designs and their hair colors. The reason I didn't want to bring it up was simply because I'm still a bit confused as to what I think of your argument about red and green hair colors becomming more dominant in terms of popularity. I'm one of those guys who won't select a hair color over personal preference (aka, I'm not going to choose Eliwood just because he's red haired, or Lyn because she's green. I'm going to choose Lyn because I like her personallity.) I also don't know a thing about what Sakurai is thinking. In other words, I'm not really fit to argue your point.
Ok, I apologize Ultima. Thought you were debating on something else.

But to those that don't think hair color matters, it does. There's a reason why the Lords have only 3 different hair color. Have you never noticed theres never been a blonde, black, white, brown, etc colored Lord? Exactly. It's a trademark of the series, just like Link's green tunic. Bet you never argued that? Or that the main characters of Final Fantasy are all metrosexual? Exactly, no matter what it is or how small physically it is, it's still a trademark nonetheless.

EDIT: 700th post! wheeee!
 

Kirby knight

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That really doesn't prove anything regarding Marth, unless of course they're carbon copies of each other which wouldn't make that much sense considering they're both vastly different enough in order to be given unique movesets.

Oh Ike's sword is long; Marth confirmed :/ I still thing Marth is in but that's a pretty odd conclusion to make about "sword range" confirming Marth.

A music update could help though. That is if they include FE music that has been remixed from other FE's.

EDIT:

From the looks of Ike; his physical apperance he looks to be about as fast or a bit faster than Roy. A vid featuring Ike would help confirm or deny my suspisions.
 

Salaad

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I think you misunderstood me...Because the update says that the Castle Siege doesn't belong to one person, so Marth has a pretty good chance of getting in.


I just thought that Ike's sword range is pretty awesome, nothing to do with Marth. xD
 

Kirby knight

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Yes I think I did slightly did misunderstand you. I think the reason why they would have the Castle Siege level is that other FE a character(s) will be in as well.

( As of right now Ike is the only confirmed character so that could mean he's the only rep of Fire Emblem, I highy highly highy doubt that though, ) I just stated that because some people think Ike is the replacment of Marth and Roy because they seemed to think they combined both of them into Ike.
 

Dark Sonic

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I think that the castle stage confirmed two very important things for Marth's cause that keeps his chances alive.

1. Since it's confirmed that it is not "Ike's Stage" then there is a very high chance that Ike will not be the only FE representative.
2. Since the stage is not from any particular FE (rather than being confirmed as the Daein or even Begnion castle, that means that we will likely get reps from different games in the series. That could mean getting a rep from the upcomming FE10 (which would allow the Black Knight to still get in) or a rep from all the way back to FE1 (which would allow Marth, Sigurd, Lyndis, Hector, Marth) to get in.
 

moledork

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I think that the castle stage confirmed two very important things for Marth's cause that keeps his chances alive.

1. Since it's confirmed that it is not "Ike's Stage" then there is a very high chance that Ike will not be the only FE representative.
2. Since the stage is not from any particular FE (rather than being confirmed as the Daein or even Begnion castle, that means that we will likely get reps from different games in the series. That could mean getting a rep from the upcomming FE10 (which would allow the Black Knight to still get in) or a rep from all the way back to FE1 (which would allow Marth, Sigurd, Lyndis, Hector, Marth) to get in.
yea thats exactly wut i was thinkin...i would love to see characters likelyn or hector because they wouldnt be clones....i hope that if they do put in black knight that he isnt a heavy ike clone
 

Kabyk-Greenmyst

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I think that the castle stage confirmed two very important things for Marth's cause that keeps his chances alive.

1. Since it's confirmed that it is not "Ike's Stage" then there is a very high chance that Ike will not be the only FE representative.
2. Since the stage is not from any particular FE (rather than being confirmed as the Daein or even Begnion castle, that means that we will likely get reps from different games in the series. That could mean getting a rep from the upcomming FE10 (which would allow the Black Knight to still get in) or a rep from all the way back to FE1 (which would allow Marth, Sigurd, Lyndis, Hector, Marth) to get in.
How does that raise the chances of Marth alone? It raises the chance of every Lord in existence.
 

Bowserlick

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I think that the castle stage confirmed two very important things for Marth's cause that keeps his chances alive.

1. Since it's confirmed that it is not "Ike's Stage" then there is a very high chance that Ike will not be the only FE representative.
2. Since the stage is not from any particular FE (rather than being confirmed as the Daein or even Begnion castle, that means that we will likely get reps from different games in the series. That could mean getting a rep from the upcomming FE10 (which would allow the Black Knight to still get in) or a rep from all the way back to FE1 (which would allow Marth, Sigurd, Lyndis, Hector, Marth) to get in.
I think the opposite. You have a series that has various locations and yet Sakurai creates a world. A world that incorporates similar elements of the franchise. A castle, a battle, and a dragon (maybe not just in flag form, but maybe lurking in the basement).

To me Sakurai is saying that the series is very limited. Perhaps he thinks the same about the characters because most of the popular lords (worldwide, not just in the US) have blue hair and swords.

Unless clones are implemented (which I doubt), I think Ike will be the sole representative.
 

RBinator

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Actually, didn't the Lords of FE: SS had a hair color that wasn't quite blue? Their hair looked more like a cyan-ish color to me. Also, doesn't the heroine of FE: GoD have a hair color totally different from the rest of the lords?

Either way, how do we know they won't include more then one blue hair character from FE? Are they really gonna limit themselves to the color of someone's hair if they felt like putting them in?
 

LukeFonFabre

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There have actually been quite a few non blue haired lords. Leaf, lord of FE5, had brown hair, and both Roy and Eliwood had red hair (though Hector did have blue hair, but he's not a swordsman). And Ephraim and Eirika's hair both look more green than blue to me, and while Ike returns in GoD, Micaiah still has quite a bit of importance, and she was silver/white hair.

Regardless, I think it's more that they are both blue haired swordsman and that their playstyles would be similar, rather than simply the blue hair. I don't think many would mind if the other blue haired FE character was Hector. However, if they opt for another swordsman, I don't think Sakurai is going to take hair colour into account to be honest, he'll be more concerned on how far they can be separated in style.
 

Fawriel

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How dare you! I shall rip off your head, pour jelly down your open neck, and pray to the Gods of Jelly and Thunder to burn your soul in a jelly-like Hell!
So, like, you don't forgive me?


I like to think that Marth will return with a speedy fencing style, as he actually used rapiers in his game. It would make it pretty hard to confuse the two due to the completely different stance. And in the case of an emergency, there's still the option of increasing the greenness of Marth's hair.
 

Dark Sonic

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How does that raise the chances of Marth alone? It raises the chance of every Lord in existence.
How many lords are more important to the series than Marth?
It does raise the chance of every lord, but Marth had the highest chances to begin with. What this did was basically confirm an additional character slot, which is all that Marth really needed to get in. Now that he's no longer competing with Ike for a spot, all he has to do is beat the other lords. That's a pretty easy task because
1. He's been in more FE's than all of them
2. His games were extemely popular
3. He's a vetran from melee.

His only real competition at this point is The Black Knight and as long as that castle stage isn't specifically from Ike's game then that means, more likely, neither are all of the FE characters.
 

Kabyk-Greenmyst

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I dug these up from a very old thread from summer 2006

FE sales:

Japan:
FE3- 855,000+
FE4- 752,000+
FE5- 252,000+
FE6- 393,000+
FE7- 290,000+
FE8- 298,000+
FE9- 152,000+

Add the US sales too:
FE7 - 409,000
FE8 - 331,000
FE9 - 185,000
This is from one year ago. The sales have probably changed a little for the most recent 2-3 games, but probably not much.

As you can see, Marth's game (FE3) has done the best in Japan. Roy's game (FE6) was going to be released in early 2002. Thus, we get Marth and Roy in Melee.

Now, we get to the US. We have Ike, who is a combination of reasons for Marth and Roy in Melee; Ike is popular and well-known, (although his game had poor sales, the fact that it was on console did much to booster his name even if not his sales), and that he has a sequel to his game coming out for Wii, although it's already in Japan, it's still promotion for his new game. So we have the reasons why Ike is in Brawl.

We also have reasons to believe there are at least one other FE character in Brawl. Going by sales we have:
1) Marth(Jp) & Eliwood/Lyn/Hector (USA)
2) FE4 Lord (Jp) & Eirika/Ephraim (USA)

Going by popularity:
1) Marth
2) Roy(Jp) & Lyn (USA)
3) Sigurd/Celice (Jp) & Eliwood/Hector (USA)

So, for those who are worried about Marth, there are stats to show his chances. After him, we have characters from FE7, FE4, FE8, in descending order.

*Note: The popularity part is going by the extent of my knowledge on the subject, which is limited.
 

GenG

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So, like, you don't forgive me?


I like to think that Marth will return with a speedy fencing style, as he actually used rapiers in his game. It would make it pretty hard to confuse the two due to the completely different stance. And in the case of an emergency, there's still the option of increasing the greenness of Marth's hair.
Once again...

Marth stopped used rapiers after he got the Falchion, then his style changed completely... rapiers are obsolete weapons for Marth.

And blue is the main color in the franchise. It was used until FE6 for pointing the most important character/bloodline in the continent, usually from a royal family. Leaf isn't a lord, he is the main character of his game, but Celice was the true lord/main figure in the Jugdral Continent. FE6-8 simply ignored this. Then Ike was the first one in many years to recover that tradition. Even if Micaiah has white hair, Ike is the main figure in the continent, the lord.
 

SonicMario

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I hope that Ike speaks in english. One of the reasons i didn't play as Marth or Roy, was their japanese voices i couldn't understand. (No Need to translate every thing said by them, i have seen Smash Wiki)
 
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