Ike

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Any hope I had for a proper Ike rebalance is now gone with these words:

"We've buffed Lucario's Aura property" ~ Sakurai

Yeah, Aura didn't need a buff, it needed a change. Rewards for getting hit, on paper, allow for a creative risk/reward playstyle; in practice, they punish the opponent for playing anything less than a perfect game by providing an unearned advantage to the losing person. Sigh. I respect Sakurai to death for coming up with Smash, but he needs to have a larger team and allow them to veto and discuss his ideas more often. No one can be on point perfect all the time, Mr. Sakurai, not even you.

 

[Commander]

Any hope I had for a proper Ike rebalance is now gone with these words:

"We've buffed Lucario's Aura property" ~ Sakurai

Yeah, Aura didn't need a buff, it needed a change. Rewards for getting hit, on paper, allow for a creative risk/reward playstyle; in practice, they punish the opponent for playing anything less than a perfect game by providing an unearned advantage to the losing person. Sigh. I respect Sakurai to death for coming up with Smash, but he needs to have a larger team and allow them to veto and discuss his ideas more often. No one can be on point perfect all the time, Mr. Sakurai, not even you.

Or the Lucario player. You are over reacting.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I'm not saying Aura buff is broken. I'm saying there is an inherent flaw in rewarding players for screwing up (Lucario players who get beat up) and punishing players who play well (opponents doing the hitting).

I don't think I'm over-reacting in saying that SSB4's balance priorities are taking few wrong turns, and Ike is likely to be mishandled much like Lucario.

 

[Commander]

The aura system is not a reward for getting hit. It is a reward for staying alive. Not getting hit is much easier said than done and the longer you survive the more damage you accumulate. The Aura buff was necessary because damaged Lucario wasn't much better than a fresh Lucario. At least in casual play. I simply expect Lucario to get stronger faster rather than stronger overall.

 

[Superyoshiom]

Lucario getting in raises Ike chances of making the cut, as they were both on many people's cut lists.

 

[Megadoomer]

I'd agree that Lucario's inclusion bodes well for Ike - people felt that neither one of them were "relevant" enough to stay in, and that they'd be replaced with someone newer. Besides, with how popular Fire Emblem Awakening has made the series, I'm pretty sure they'd be able to get away with having three characters this time around. (don't know who the inevitable Awakening representative would be - I've never played any games from the Fire Emblem franchise, and I'm only vaguely aware of who the characters in Awakening are)

 

[Sonicguy726]

I'd agree that Lucario's inclusion bodes well for Ike - people felt that neither one of them were "relevant" enough to stay in, and that they'd be replaced with someone newer. Besides, with how popular Fire Emblem Awakening has made the series, I'm pretty sure they'd be able to get away with having three characters this time around. (don't know who the inevitable Awakening representative would be - I've never played any games from the Fire Emblem franchise, and I'm only vaguely aware of who the characters in Awakening are)

I'd like to see the avatar/robin/tactician/my unit guy, he could switch between a magic and sword gameplay style ala Zelda/Sheik

 

[Sunnysunny]

Lucina, Chrome, and Tactician would be the "representatives" for awakening if they add one. Which I wouldn't be surprised if they did. FE characters are pretty interesting to build movesets around, sense it's just straight up sword play. There's also some people that think Anna might get in.

As a side note, a decedent of Ike appears as the boss in the final "sub chapter" of Awakening. So, atleast they havn't forgot about him.

 

[Sonicguy726]

Lucina, Chrome, and Tactician would be the "representatives" for awakening if they add one. Which I wouldn't be surprised if they did. FE characters are pretty interesting to build movesets around, sense it's just straight up sword play. There's also some people that think Anna might get in.

As a side note, a decedent of Ike appears as the boss in the final "sub chapter" of Awakening. So, atleast they havn't forgot about him.

I'd rather not have chrom or lucina since they are marth's descendants and use the same sword so they'd be very similar to marth

 

[Katakiri]

Chrom wields Falchion differently and with far more power than Marth does. He's very much a middle-ground between Marth & Ike with horizontal slices, literally ground-shattering jumping-slashes, and one-handed wielding. If Ike were to be replaced, Chrom would likely take the spot of the powerful swordsman but they're likely dissimilar enough to keep both.

One of the biggest doubts simply comes from the sheer number of swordsmen that Smash Bros already has: Link, Marth, Meta Knight, Pit, Toon Link, Ganondorf, Sanic, and Ike. Adding another strictly-sword fighter like Chrom to that list seems like a bit much without removing one (almost as bad as a clone character at this point) and since Toon Link is in and Meta Knight might as well be confirmed, that turns gazes to Ike.

And to be fair, Lucario's inclusion doesn't say anything for Ike at all. Lucario's more relevant right now than he's ever been with X/Y making him your very first (and forced) Mega Evolution on top of being one of the very few Pokemon that willingly joins your team.
Ike's Brawl popularity, Radiant Dawn, and Awakening are all that speaks to Ike's relevancy now so the question is: Is that enough? Lucas has the benefit of not having any series replacement yet with a small series roster as is, but Ike has Chrom, Tactician, Lucina, and (to a much lesser extent) Micaiah all lined up behind him. I mean think of the Brawl characters that could be cut and, with Toon Link & Lucario in, Ike is now right behind Snake & ROB on that list. Some could argue Wolf or PT before Ike but Wolf's had a major role in nearly every Star Fox game to date and PT uses 3 of the 6 starter Pokemon in XY, one of which can now Mega Evolve, and starred in the recent anime-adaptation of Pokemon Red/Green.

I'd prefer to see all characters except Ice Climbers come back, but there's no doubt that some characters are on the chopping block and Fire Emblem might see it again.

 

[Sonicguy726]

Chrom wields Falchion differently and with far more power than Marth does. He's very much a middle-ground between Marth & Ike with horizontal slices, literally ground-shattering jumping-slashes, and one-handed wielding. If Ike were to be replaced, Chrom would likely take the spot of the powerful swordsman but they're likely dissimilar enough to keep both.

One of the biggest doubts simply comes from the sheer number of swordsmen that Smash Bros already has: Link, Marth, Meta Knight, Pit, Toon Link, Ganondorf, Sanic, and Ike. Adding another strictly-sword fighter like Chrom to that list seems like a bit much without removing one (almost as bad as a clone character at this point) and since Toon Link is in and Meta Knight might as well be confirmed, that turns gazes to Ike.

And to be fair, Lucario's inclusion doesn't say anything for Ike at all. Lucario's more relevant right now than he's ever been with X/Y making him your very first (and forced) Mega Evolution on top of being one of the very few Pokemon that willingly joins your team.
Ike's Brawl popularity, Radiant Dawn, and Awakening are all that speaks to Ike's relevancy now so the question is: Is that enough? Lucas has the benefit of not having any series replacement yet with a small series roster as is, but Ike has Chrom, Tactician, Lucina, and (to a much lesser extent) Micaiah all lined up behind him. I mean think of the Brawl characters that could be cut and, with Toon Link & Lucario in, Ike is now right behind Snake & ROB on that list. Some could argue Wolf or PT before Ike but Wolf's had a major role in nearly every Star Fox game to date and PT uses 3 of the 6 starter Pokemon in XY, one of which can now Mega Evolve, and starred in the recent anime-adaptation of Pokemon Red/Green.

I'd prefer to see all characters except Ice Climbers come back, but there's no doubt that some characters are on the chopping block and Fire Emblem might see it again.

But Ike is still far more important to the series and is still more unique than chrom either way

 

[Katakiri]

But Ike is still far more important to the series and is still more unique than chrom either way

That's questionable for now with Awakening being the latest in the series, but one thing that isn't questionable is sales figures.
Awakening sold 1.22 million copies globally
Path of Radiance sold 0.54 million copies globally
Radiant Dawn sold 0.47 million copies globally

Awakening sold 210,000 more copies to-date than the combined total of both Ike's games over their entire sales life. It doesn't take much to see where the money lies. How many people of those 1.22 million would buy Smash Bros 4 just to get more Awakening in their life? Probably more than we'd think. On top of that, any character from Awakening would drum up more hype than Ike ever could as they would be new characters in a Smash game which follows the simple equation: Smash Bros + New Popular Character + (in-game appearance * HD graphics) + DK's fur in the reveal trailer = Hype

 

[Sonicguy726]

That's questionable for now with Awakening being the latest in the series, but one thing that isn't questionable is sales figures.
Awakening sold 1.22 million copies globally
Path of Radiance sold 0.54 million copies globally
Radiant Dawn sold 0.47 million copies globally

Awakening sold 210,000 more copies to-date than the combined total of both Ike's games over their entire sales life. It doesn't take much to see where the money lies. How many people of those 1.22 million would buy Smash Bros 4 just to get more Awakening in their life? Probably more than we'd think. On top of that, any character from Awakening would drum up more hype than Ike ever could as they would be new characters in a Smash game which follows the simple equation: Smash Bros + New Popular Character + (in-game appearance * HD graphics) + DK's fur in the reveal trailer = Hype

It's pretty obvious that they are going for uniqueness in the newcomers and compared to the 4 we have chrom is FARRRR less unique, and yes sales mean absolutely everything, not popularity or moveset potential

 

[Katakiri]

It's pretty obvious that they are going for uniqueness in the newcomers and compared to the 4 we have chrom is FARRRR less unique, and yes sales mean absolutely everything, not popularity or moveset potential

So wait, how is Chrom less unique than Ike? That's not even looking at it with a critical eye, that's just flat-out personal bias.
His only difference from most Fire Emblem protagonists is that Ike wasn't born a noble and is thus more rugged. His fire-based attacks are either references to a spell tomb in Path of Radiance (it's in Awakening as well) that Ike himself can't use or were completely made up by Sakurai which is more likely the case. Quick-Draw and Aether are just about all Sakurai took from Ike's actual in-game attacks. Everything else, including his Final Smash, were moves crafted by Sakurai so don't give me any garbage about "moveset potential", whatever the hell that's supposed to mean in a series where R.O.B., Mr. Game & Watch, and the girl from Wii Fit are fully-fleshed-out characters.

And popularity is a really horrid term for comparison btw so please stop using it. Popular to what groups of people? What age? What gender? People that play 3DS? Wii U? Casual FE players? Die-hards of the series? And even then, where's your evidence of this supposed "popularity"? References? Citations? There will be a quiz on this tomorrow; pay attention! Alright but seriously, popularity is a very bad term for comparisons especially when you're using it to argue against sales figures. Solid numbers.

Nintendo is a company, as friendly as they want to seem, and Smash Bros is Nintendo's largest, most expensive billboard and if you don't think sales are everything to them and the stockholders that own them, you are a child in a fever dream. They're not checking Miiverse every day going "hmm, what character are they most asking for today?" No, they're looking are sale figures; something rock solid. Why Wii Fit Trainer? Sales figures. Why did Ike get into Brawl over Roy? Well just check the release date of Radiant Dawn for details. Why does every new character page on the Smash Bros website link to the website for the latest game in each series? Advertising! It's Business 1101. Game Development 1101. It's shameless but Nintendo's leash is held by thousands of stockholders that want, drum-roll please~: Money!

I didn't expect to go on a business rant tonight but there it is.

But again, I'm not putting Ike down, he's a ton of fun and I'd love to see him again. The more characters the better. I'm just pointing out that the odds are not in his favor this time around. And I'm not inferring that Chrom is going be the one to replace him either if it does happen, he is the poster child of Awakening but I think Tactician is just as likely since the character class was also in Marth's last DS game before Awakening.

 

[Sonicguy726]

So wait, how is Chrom less unique than Ike? That's not even looking at it with a critical eye, that's just flat-out personal bias.
His only difference from most Fire Emblem protagonists is that Ike wasn't born a noble and is thus more rugged. His fire-based attacks are either references to a spell tomb in Path of Radiance (it's in Awakening as well) that Ike himself can't use or were completely made up by Sakurai which is more likely the case. Quick-Draw and Aether are just about all Sakurai took from Ike's actual in-game attacks. Everything else, including his Final Smash, were moves crafted by Sakurai so don't give me any garbage about "moveset potential", whatever the hell that's supposed to mean in a series where R.O.B., Mr. Game & Watch, and the girl from Wii Fit are fully-fleshed-out characters.

And popularity is a really horrid term for comparison btw so please stop using it. Popular to what groups of people? What age? What gender? People that play 3DS? Wii U? Casual FE players? Die-hards of the series? And even then, where's your evidence of this supposed "popularity"? References? Citations? There will be a quiz on this tomorrow; pay attention! Alright but seriously, popularity is a very bad term for comparisons especially when you're using it to argue against sales figures. Solid numbers.

Nintendo is a company, as friendly as they want to seem, and Smash Bros is Nintendo's largest, most expensive billboard and if you don't think sales are everything to them and the stockholders that own them, you are a child in a fever dream. They're not checking Miiverse every day going "hmm, what character are they most asking for today?" No, they're looking are sale figures; something rock solid. Why Wii Fit Trainer? Sales figures. Why did Ike get into Brawl over Roy? Well just check the release date of Radiant Dawn for details. Why does every new character page on the Smash Bros website link to the website for the latest game in each series? Advertising! It's Business 1101. Game Development 1101. It's shameless but Nintendo's leash is held by thousands of stockholders that want, drum-roll please~: Money!

I didn't expect to go on a business rant tonight but there it is.

But again, I'm not putting Ike down, he's a ton of fun and I'd love to see him again. The more characters the better. I'm just pointing out that the odds are not in his favor this time around. And I'm not inferring that Chrom is going be the one to replace him either if it does happen, he is the poster child of Awakening but I think Tactician is just as likely since the character class was also in Marth's last DS game before Awakening.

Similar to marth in design and build, is marths descendant, using the same sword etc. Ike is extremely different to marth. I don't think sakuari really cares about advertising anyway since he hasn't really shown that in the past, maybe lucario but he didn't even replace mewtwo since they were both supposed to be in brawl.

 

[Commander]

That's questionable for now with Awakening being the latest in the series, but one thing that isn't questionable is sales figures.
Awakening sold 1.22 million copies globally
Path of Radiance sold 0.54 million copies globally
Radiant Dawn sold 0.47 million copies globally

Awakening sold 210,000 more copies to-date than the combined total of both Ike's games over their entire sales life. It doesn't take much to see where the money lies. How many people of those 1.22 million would buy Smash Bros 4 just to get more Awakening in their life? Probably more than we'd think. On top of that, any character from Awakening would drum up more hype than Ike ever could as they would be new characters in a Smash game which follows the simple equation: Smash Bros + New Popular Character + (in-game appearance * HD graphics) + DK's fur in the reveal trailer = Hype

Ike is still one of only two lords in FE to get two games, and he is also the only lord other than Marth to get a descendant in Awakening(Sigurd is just hinted at). Considering Ike got much less sales than other games in the series, less than any of the GBA games, its very odd for IS to pick Ike to get descendant unless they saw him as an important figure. Smash Bros isn't about drumming up hype or advertising alone. Was anyone really sitting around thinking "Man I really wish I could play as (generic game & watch guy/Ice Climbers/Pit(at the time of Brawl)/R.OB.)"? Even characters like Falcon and Jigglypuff clearly wouldn't have big followings if they weren't part of the original 12.

So wait, how is Chrom less unique than Ike? That's not even looking at it with a critical eye, that's just flat-out personal bias.
His only difference from most Fire Emblem protagonists is that Ike wasn't born a noble and is thus more rugged. His fire-based attacks are either references to a spell tomb in Path of Radiance (it's in Awakening as well) that Ike himself can't use or were completely made up by Sakurai which is more likely the case. Quick-Draw and Aether are just about all Sakurai took from Ike's actual in-game attacks. Everything else, including his Final Smash, were moves crafted by Sakurai so don't give me any garbage about "moveset potential", whatever the hell that's supposed to mean in a series where R.O.B., Mr. Game & Watch, and the girl from Wii Fit are fully-fleshed-out characters.

And popularity is a really horrid term for comparison btw so please stop using it. Popular to what groups of people? What age? What gender? People that play 3DS? Wii U? Casual FE players? Die-hards of the series? And even then, where's your evidence of this supposed "popularity"? References? Citations? There will be a quiz on this tomorrow; pay attention! Alright but seriously, popularity is a very bad term for comparisons especially when you're using it to argue against sales figures. Solid numbers.

Nintendo is a company, as friendly as they want to seem, and Smash Bros is Nintendo's largest, most expensive billboard and if you don't think sales are everything to them and the stockholders that own them, you are a child in a fever dream. They're not checking Miiverse every day going "hmm, what character are they most asking for today?" No, they're looking are sale figures; something rock solid. Why Wii Fit Trainer? Sales figures. Why did Ike get into Brawl over Roy? Well just check the release date of Radiant Dawn for details. Why does every new character page on the Smash Bros website link to the website for the latest game in each series? Advertising! It's Business 1101. Game Development 1101. It's shameless but Nintendo's leash is held by thousands of stockholders that want, drum-roll please~: Money!

I didn't expect to go on a business rant tonight but there it is.

But again, I'm not putting Ike down, he's a ton of fun and I'd love to see him again. The more characters the better. I'm just pointing out that the odds are not in his favor this time around. And I'm not inferring that Chrom is going be the one to replace him either if it does happen, he is the poster child of Awakening but I think Tactician is just as likely since the character class was also in Marth's last DS game before Awakening.

Actually Ike's ftilt is the same attack he uses as a lord and the same swing his father uses, his forward smash is the same swing the Black Knight uses, his forward air is similar to the aerial attack he uses in the opening of PoR, and his jumping animation comes from that opening too. His up air is also similar to the Black Knight's critical hit animation. Ike does do a flaming Aethr on the final boss of Radiant Dawn, so Great Aether isn't out of place for him, just the color is. A lot of Ike's moves make sense for him, and aren't just random swings. Same thing goes for Marth, in that a lot of his moves do come from him, and so do his running animation and jumping animations. Both Marth and Ike also borrow from other things in FE that make sense for them as characters. Marth's specials come from the myrmidon class in FE4 and they make sense for him because Marth has growth rates similar to that of a myrmidon. In the Tellius series Warriors, Myrmidons, and Soldiers all have powerful attacks that send opponents straight up and those are similar to Ike's up tilt. I imagine if Chrom was added his moveset would have the same care that Marth and Ike recieved. A lot of his slashes, and stabs from his lance, would mos likely be carried over to his move set as well as anything that other units do that would make sense for him, for example any move a warrior does considering Chrom training with Vaike all the time wouldn't make it unusual for him to use one of those attacks. Marth, Ike, and Chrom can all easily have very unique and canon move sets with the only overlap being counter, which easily can be made to work very differently for all three of them.

I don't think Wii Fit Trainer's addition had anything o do with anything other than Sakurai thinking "Wouldn't this be funny?". The group of people most likely to buy Wii Fit probably aren't the same group that would get excited over smash bros. In regards to Ike's placement in Brawl, I remember reading that Sakurai asked Intelligent Systems who he should add, and Intelligent Systems said to add Ike, and maybe they believed having Roy in Melee helped his game and expected the same for Ike's games. Whatever the reason, it is never officially stated for either Roy or Ike why either were added in at the time they were, we can only theorize why.

Smash Bros. isn't designed as an add either. It wasn't at 64, and for Melee it was designed as a system seller, not an ad. The smash bros. website's ads for other games are almost random in how they are decided. Marth's page links to Awakening on the US site, but on the Japanese website it links to FE12, a game released in 2010 only in Japan.
Why doesn't Pit's page link to Kid Icarus Uprising? Why doesn't Luigi have the poltergust 3000 as one of his moves to drum up hype for Luigi's mansion? What the hell did G&W and the ICs advertise? Smash Bros sells as its own series on its own hype. We all know of the guys who don't play nintendo games but play smash with their friends. How many people are actually moved to pick up a game because of Smash? FE is the greatest example of people getting interested in a series because of smash however, very few people who have played smash have been moved to actually get into the series as a result of it. Awakening was planned to be the last game in the series if it couldn't reverse its poor sales trends. Awakening was lucky it was released during a drought of games while american FE fans hyped it up.

I don't think Robin has a chance for Smash. It would be odd to have him/her and not Chrom, considering Chrom was the main character of Awakening, and it would be odd to have Chrom and Robin because having two Awakening characters just seems like too much for me.Though Brawl was incredibly Gen 1 heavy with its pokemon, but I didn't like that either.

 

[TheRage]

Ike is still one of only two lords in FE to get two games, and he is also the only lord other than Marth to get a descendant in Awakening(Sigurd is just hinted at). Considering Ike got much less sales than other games in the series, less than any of the GBA games, its very odd for IS to pick Ike to get descendant unless they saw him as an important figure. Smash Bros isn't about drumming up hype or advertising alone. Was anyone really sitting around thinking "Man I really wish I could play as (generic game & watch guy/Ice Climbers/Pit(at the time of Brawl)/R.OB.)"? Even characters like Falcon and Jigglypuff clearly wouldn't have big followings if they weren't part of the original 12.


Actually Ike's ftilt is the same attack he uses as a lord and the same swing his father uses, his forward smash is the same swing the Black Knight uses, his forward air is similar to the aerial attack he uses in the opening of PoR, and his jumping animation comes from that opening too. His up air is also similar to the Black Knight's critical hit animation. Ike does do a flaming Aethr on the final boss of Radiant Dawn, so Great Aether isn't out of place for him, just the color is. A lot of Ike's moves make sense for him, and aren't just random swings. Same thing goes for Marth, in that a lot of his moves do come from him, and so do his running animation and jumping animations. Both Marth and Ike also borrow from other things in FE that make sense for them as characters. Marth's specials come from the myrmidon class in FE4 and they make sense for him because Marth has growth rates similar to that of a myrmidon. In the Tellius series Warriors, Myrmidons, and Soldiers all have powerful attacks that send opponents straight up and those are similar to Ike's up tilt. I imagine if Chrom was added his moveset would have the same care that Marth and Ike recieved. A lot of his slashes, and stabs from his lance, would mos likely be carried over to his move set as well as anything that other units do that would make sense for him, for example any move a warrior does considering Chrom training with Vaike all the time wouldn't make it unusual for him to use one of those attacks. Marth, Ike, and Chrom can all easily have very unique and canon move sets with the only overlap being counter, which easily can be made to work very differently for all three of them.

I don't think Wii Fit Trainer's addition had anything o do with anything other than Sakurai thinking "Wouldn't this be funny?". The group of people most likely to buy Wii Fit probably aren't the same group that would get excited over smash bros. In regards to Ike's placement in Brawl, I remember reading that Sakurai asked Intelligent Systems who he should add, and Intelligent Systems said to add Ike, and maybe they believed having Roy in Melee helped his game and expected the same for Ike's games. Whatever the reason, it is never officially stated for either Roy or Ike why either were added in at the time they were, we can only theorize why.

Smash Bros. isn't designed as an add either. It wasn't at 64, and for Melee it was designed as a system seller, not an ad. The smash bros. website's ads for other games are almost random in how they are decided. Marth's page links to Awakening on the US site, but on the Japanese website it links to FE12, a game released in 2010 only in Japan.
Why doesn't Pit's page link to Kid Icarus Uprising? Why doesn't Luigi have the poltergust 3000 as one of his moves to drum up hype for Luigi's mansion? What the hell did G&W and the ICs advertise? Smash Bros sells as its own series on its own hype. We all know of the guys who don't play nintendo games but play smash with their friends. How many people are actually moved to pick up a game because of Smash? FE is the greatest example of people getting interested in a series because of smash however, very few people who have played smash have been moved to actually get into the series as a result of it. Awakening was planned to be the last game in the series if it couldn't reverse its poor sales trends. Awakening was lucky it was released during a drought of games while american FE fans hyped it up.

I don't think Robin has a chance for Smash. It would be odd to have him/her and not Chrom, considering Chrom was the main character of Awakening, and it would be odd to have Chrom and Robin because having two Awakening characters just seems like too much for me.Though Brawl was incredibly Gen 1 heavy with its pokemon, but I didn't like that either.

Very good points you make in this post and previous ones. If Ike was popular and/or unique for Brawl, why shouldn't he stay in the Smash series?

I do think his moveset should be modified a little, however, for greater balance and the sort (A more accurate Aether (actual chance of health recovery and greater range) and possible Ragnell energy-wave (ranged attack) would be nice, along with some of his animations being changed to better represent him from his series).

Also, what is Ike's [forward special] supposed to resemble anyway? Its not very useful sometimes, and I don't remember any point in FE9-10 where he actually used a move like that. Instead, I think it should be replaced by the aforementioned ranged attack (energy-wave) Ike uses in ranged battles in his games, not only because it would look better, but because it would add new life to his character.

And regarding possible Awakening characters? From what I've heard, Chrom or Lucina are the most likely candidates, but like you mentioned, two characters from this game would be a little much. Perhaps Chrom, from my limited knowledge, could fill in a sort of middle ground between Marth's speed and Ike's strength? Or maybe you can switch Chrom's costumes to Lucina or another similar Awakening character for added depth? (Similar to what can be done with Wii Fit Female and Male trainers, or down-b transformation as with Zelda.) These are just some of the possible ideas regarding this, you listening Sakurai?

 

[Commander]

Quick Draw is his critical hit animation from his ranger class. Aether does not need to heal him. It would either heal him at a level where it would be broken or it would heal at a point where it would be useless. In Project M Quick Draw is the best move ever because Ike can jump out of it. That is all that is needed to be given to it. I don't think Ike needs the ability to shoot blue fire in smash like he does in FE. With all of his other moves, I can't see how a projectile could really help him.

The only Awakening character who has a chance is Chrom. Lucina is a secondary character an I already stated why I think Robin isn't a good choice, though I still think s/he would be cool if s/he got in. Alt costumes exist only for characters who have multiple iconic looks. This is why Wario has one and the Wii Fit Trainer has one. The villager will most likely get one too. They aren't meant to be other characters or just other costumes characters have worn. Sakurai didn't make Doctor Mario an alt in Melee because it would be odd to see Doctor Mario shooting fire balls. It would be worse if it changed them into completely different characters because it takes away from both characters' uniqueness.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Quick Draw is his critical hit animation from his ranger class. Aether does not need to heal him. It would either heal him at a level where it would be broken or it would heal at a point where it would be useless. In Project M Quick Draw is the best move ever because Ike can jump out of it. That is all that is needed to be given to it. I don't think Ike needs the ability to shoot blue fire in smash like he does in FE. With all of his other moves, I can't see how a projectile could really help him.

Er, he just launches a sword beam. There is fire, but that's waaaaaaaaaay at the end and unrelated to gameplay. A sword beam would be a fine addition since I doubt they will take a page from Project M's book on Quick Draw (and would you really want them to? What would even be the point of Project M if Smash 4 did what it did?) giving Ike a more reliable ranged move. Plus he wouldn't have some random bull**** technique mapped to his B-move when there's a fitting move that he actually uses waiting in the wings.

Aether healing him would be nice nod to the series, if probably not all that useful. But he really just need some speed adjustments, that's all.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Also what's your opinion on this. Would you prefer Ike to keep his PoR design and gets some buffs in speed and a little, but not a lot of nerf in power? Or, RD design with him being even slower and stronger.
To answer my own question I would prefer him having the PoR option. How 'bout you guys?

 

[ToothiestAura]

Also what's your opinion on this. Would you prefer Ike to keep his PoR design and gets some buffs in speed and a little, but not a lot of nerf in power? Or, RD design with him being even slower and stronger.
To answer my own question I would prefer him having the PoR option. How 'bout you guys?

RD design with no nerfs in strength and buffs in speed.

 

[Commander]

Er, he just launches a sword beam. There is fire, but that's waaaaaaaaaay at the end and unrelated to gameplay. A sword beam would be a fine addition since I doubt they will take a page from Project M's book on Quick Draw (and would you really want them to? What would even be the point of Project M if Smash 4 did what it did?) giving Ike a more reliable ranged move. Plus he wouldn't have some random bull**** technique mapped to his B-move when there's a fitting move that he actually uses waiting in the wings.

Aether healing him would be nice nod to the series, if probably not all that useful. But he really just need some speed adjustments, that's all.

Through out all of Radiant Dawn, Ragnell and Alondite are shooting blue flames. It is in the attack animation and map animation. It was just a beam in PoR for whatever reason but in RD it was made to look like blue flames through out the entire game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujChlKHqaZw Here you can see it at 2:20 with the Black Knight and Alondite. I would at least want them to speed up Ike's tilts, aerials, and smashes, to the degree that Project M did. Having QD jump cancel-able is something that would be very nice too because it allows Ike to have a ground speed that feels natural to him. I would absolutely like them to copy good design. The one thing I probably wouldn't carry over is the hilt sweet spot system. It just doesn't feel right and I don't often think of it in my play. Project M is a fan game and its existence isn't anywhere near as important to me as an official smash game being good. It is my main game, bu if Smash4 feels better, or has an Ike similar to it, I would happily drop Project M for Smash4.

I don't see how a projectile could help Ike in any way. Nothing in his move set really benefits from being able to harass people with a projectile.

Also what's your opinion on this. Would you prefer Ike to keep his PoR design and gets some buffs in speed and a little, but not a lot of nerf in power? Or, RD design with him being even slower and stronger.
To answer my own question I would prefer him having the PoR option. How 'bout you guys?

Smash Bros is a game of iconic characters and those characters should keep to their iconic designs. I'm sure Ike will stay in his ranger outfit because that is his iconic design. Even RD ends with an image of Ike in his ranger outfit. The speed buff is simply a necessity to make him a good character, and considering they gave Bowser a speed buff Ike is absolutely deserving of one.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

So wait, how is Chrom less unique than Ike? That's not even looking at it with a critical eye, that's just flat-out personal bias.

Look at the title of the thread you're in.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Through out all of Radiant Dawn, Ragnell and Alondite are shooting blue flames. It is in the attack animation and map animation. It was just a beam in PoR for whatever reason but in RD it was made to look like blue flames through out the entire game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujChlKHqaZw Here you can see it at 2:20 with the Black Knight and Alondite.

I know it's blue, it just doesn't look like fire to me. At all. Just blue energy.

 

[FalKoopa]

Also what's your opinion on this. Would you prefer Ike to keep his PoR design and gets some buffs in speed and a little, but not a lot of nerf in power? Or, RD design with him being even slower and stronger.
To answer my own question I would prefer him having the PoR option. How 'bout you guys?

I prefer the PoR design, and give him some buffs. One thing I really want to see is him not being helpless after Quick Draw, like in Balanced Brawl.

 

[Commander]

I know it's blue, it just doesn't look like fire to me. At all. Just blue energy.

Try to imagine fire traveling through the air alone after being shot out of sword. It would look similar to that and the map animation makes it more obvious. Also the fact that the only other holy object, the fire emblem, is also emitting blue flames is further proof of it being blue fire. It would be pretty lame if the title "Hero of Blue Flames" was only referring to the Fire Emblem.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Try to imagine fire traveling through the air alone after being shot out of sword. It would look similar to that and the map animation makes it more obvious. Also the fact that the only other holy object, the fire emblem, is also emitting blue flames is further proof of it being blue fire. It would be pretty lame if the title "Hero of Blue Flames" was only referring to the Fire Emblem.

I don't know what it looks like on the map; I always had battle animations on. The Fire Emblem has fire, because its the fire emblem, man (and in the game, they say it glows with an energy that looks like fire, but whatever). "The Hero of Blue Flames" refers to when he used Yune's power to defeat Ashera in the endgame, where Ike was engulfed in blue flames.

And I really don't see your problem with a projectile for Ike. It would be nice if he had a reliable ranged move considering how unreliable his close-fighting game is. Although, I'm not great at SSB. I'm willing to concede that you're better than me at it, and on advanced levels you just can't see how it would affect his gameplay. I think it would help on lower levels of play, at least.

 

[Commander]

I don't know what it looks like on the map; I always had battle animations on. The Fire Emblem has fire, because its the fire emblem, man (and in the game, they say it glows with an energy that looks like fire, but whatever). "The Hero of Blue Flames" refers to when he used Yune's power to defeat Ashera in the endgame, where Ike was engulfed in blue flames.

And I really don't see your problem with a projectile for Ike. It would be nice if he had a reliable ranged move considering how unreliable his close-fighting game is. Although, I'm not great at SSB. I'm willing to concede that you're better than me at it, and on advanced levels you just can't see how it would affect his gameplay. I think it would help on lower levels of play, at least.

I'm fairly certain that Lehran's Medallion is the only Fire Emblem to actually have anything to do with fire. In the first FE, it even seems like the Fire Emblem was just shoe horned in because they needed an excuse to call it Fire Emblem. I'd rather "Hero of Blue Flames" refer to his entire life and involvement with Lehran's Medallion, as well as Ragnell and Alondite, than just one moment. It makes much more sense that way.

A projectile has to work in one of two ways, either to harass and gimp, like Shiek's needles or Mario's fireballs, or to kill after being charged, like Samus's blast. If the projectile was designed solely to harass, it would be awkward and underwhelming for Ike as a character. If it was made to charge, the uncharged shots would still have tat awkward quality to them and charging them would also be weird since Ike never really charged Ragnell ever. My biggest problem is all o Ike's moves serve to get him in quickly and start comboing much like Marth does. He is great at fighting close because he out ranges every character in the game at mid-close ranges. The problem in Brawl was that they made all his swings way too slow. Just speeding up the animations a little would make him so much better.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

I think i might have found a way a projectile might work for Ike. It's a chargeable projectile with a similar motion to Ike's Side Smash when performed. Ike would slash at the and it would produce a projectile shockwave (that is bigger and stronger depending on the charge) , I'm pretty sure either Ike or Black Knight have this as an animation for their ranged weapons in RD. I'll post a video if I find one of it.

Similar to this:

 

[GamerTimeUS]

I think i might have found a way a projectile might work for Ike. It's a chargeable projectile with a similar motion to Ike's Side Smash when performed. Ike would slash at the and it would produce a projectile shockwave (that is bigger and stronger depending on the charge) , I'm pretty sure either Ike or Black Knight have this as an animation for their ranged weapons in RD. I'll post a video if I find one of it.

Similar to this:

I do like this addition.

 

[Commander]

I simply can't imagine it not being either broken or useless.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

I simply can't imagine it not being either broken or useless.

I don't really care, as long as it's faithful to the character, and this is coming from a competitive guy.

 

[Ultima777]

Well, we have Link, Toon Link, Zelda, and Ganon. That's 4 from the same game. Why can't we have 3 FE characters? I'm for having all 3. Maybe change his B to throwing his sword like a projectile. For all of you that also play League of Legends it could be similar to that of Draven's throwing axes. Pretend the axe is Ragnell.

Ike`s Projectile in his games is swinging Ragnell hitting the ground and creating a shockwave that hits his opponent not throwing his sword.

 

[Ultima777]

Honestly. Ike should stay. He's pretty much the Western Icon of Fire Emblem, he's been in all two console releases of Fire Emblem. FE9 is madly popular. And with Priam around as descendant of Ike in Marth's universe shows IS goes out of their way to show their love for Ike. I seriously don't think it's wise to cut him. As he's still the only real potential heavy weight Fire Emblem Smash character.

Chrom might be similar, but I don't see him fully replacing Ike yet. Especially seeing as Chrom isn't even the most popular / important character in Awakening either. Those spots would go to Lucina and the Avatar respectively.

That video is win. :D

 

[Diddy Kong]

The way that player screams YES YES YES is exactly the way I´ll react if Ike is in this game again. Ike was easily my second most wanted character in Brawl after Diddy.

 

[Ultima777]

The way that player screams YES YES YES is exactly the way I´ll react if Ike is in this game again. Ike was easily my second most wanted character in Brawl after Diddy.

Ike is my most wanted character right now. The other one I wanted is confirmed Lucario. Anyone else is icing on the cake.

 

[DarkFoxTeam]

Honestly, i'd rather have Ike in his Radiant Dawn look since he looks so freakin' boss. Imagine how awesome it would look if he used his RD model in Smash 4.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Nah, man. Vanguard Ike.

Though if I got the Hero look, I wouldn't turn my nose up at it. But my personal list for his costumes is Vanguard > Lord > Hero > Ranger.

 

[Commander]

Hero>Ranger=Lord>Vanguard. Vanguard just looks silly with that gauntlet.

 

[Caryslan]

Any hope I had for a proper Ike rebalance is now gone with these words:

"We've buffed Lucario's Aura property" ~ Sakurai

Yeah, Aura didn't need a buff, it needed a change. Rewards for getting hit, on paper, allow for a creative risk/reward playstyle; in practice, they punish the opponent for playing anything less than a perfect game by providing an unearned advantage to the losing person. Sigh. I respect Sakurai to death for coming up with Smash, but he needs to have a larger team and allow them to veto and discuss his ideas more often. No one can be on point perfect all the time, Mr. Sakurai, not even you.

Aura carries tons of risks, so its not really like a person can be a punching bag for half the match, and then turn into a killing machine.

For Aura to really kick in, Lucario needs to have considerable damage, and for the full benefit, be behind in stocks. Yes, Lucario can become very deadly with Aura buffs, but he becomes a glass cannon at that point. If his health is in the red, then he runs the risk of being KOed, especially if his oppoent is not in the danger zone yet. Its not like Lucario can overwhelm opponents with sheer aura alone.

It is a risk reward system, because you do have to balance out Lucario's playstyle. Just taking hits and relying on the Aura Buff will not be enough to win against a decent oppoent. Its like an Ike player hoping Ike's sheer power will be enough to win a match.

Lucario is also not every fast, and I've had people take time out victories on me simply because I fell behind in stocks, and they could dodge or were out of range of all my attacks. Aura is not a bad mechanic and it makes Lucario unquioe compared to the rest of the roster.

Plus, without Aura, Lucario pretty much has tons of trouble getting KOs, so it kinda balances out in the end.