Ike Boards General/Q&A Thread

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

In regards to the BS lag San was referring to a while back, so how much time do we have to hit Falco before he can react?

Are you talking about hitting falco in a short hop? I thought dash attack was good enough for that.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I knew we had the right idea coming here.

They have a real problem alright, and a banjo, it the only answer!!

 

[theeboredone]

I got the image that the talk was about Falco's illusion. I know we can jab them out of it, but is there some stun afterwards?

 

[john!]

what do ike players talk about anyway? over 9000 posts and we aren't allowed to help you guys stimulate conversation and forge a greater friendship with other ike players?

we aren't so different from you guys! heck, even i played ike once, when i first got brawl.

 

[Reizilla]

Does your jab clash with the phantasm or outright beat it?

 

[Z'zgashi]

I won my copy of brawl for free by winning an opening night tournament with Yoshi/Ike.

I had just beat Path of Radience so I was super pro Ike :D

 

[john!]

roy's jab beats it with proper timing, so i'm sure ike's is the same. can someone who knows two ****s about ike confirm this?

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Everything beats phantasm
ZSS's jab.
Jigglypuff's nair.

Rainbow Dashes awesomeness.
It has transcendent priority.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I wouldn't doubt it, Ike's jab is ********.

In a good way.

@Mink: Sonic Rainboom ***** the everloving balls off Phantasm.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

what do ike players talk about anyway? over 9000 posts and we aren't allowed to help you guys stimulate conversation and forge a greater friendship with other ike players?

we aren't so different from you guys! heck, even i played ike once, when i first got brawl.

Welcome john

I got the image that the talk was about Falco's illusion. I know we can jab them out of it, but is there some stun afterwards?

Oh, being a falco main I know how his phantasm works. You can hit falco out of his sideB with any move. The trick is making sure you hit him at the correct points. His hurtbox is in front of the hitbox, and falco travels between 3 points by teleportation (like Mks cape), but in the span of 2 frames.
X----X----X
Frame 17, 18, 19, or something like that. On each of those frames falco is at a different X location, and the hitbox is behind him. So to hit falco out of his phantasm, you want a long lasting hitbox that covers a wide area. SH -> nair is pretty good at it.

 

[theeboredone]

So what does that refer to the BS lag San was referring too when you hit Falco out of it?

Mr. Doom says we can f-tilt you guys afterwards.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

What do you mean by BS first of all. I have not figured that acronym out yet.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I think he means this: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12535199&postcount=407

 

[AN(M)ist]

oh well, since crystal knows about falcos, do you happen to know how good bloodcross is?

 

[Z'zgashi]

I can even answer that.

Bloodcross is very good. Larry is still much better, but Bloodcross is a top Falco still IMO.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

oh well, since crystal knows about falcos, do you happen to know how good bloodcross is?

I know bloodcross does well, but I do not know his exact successes he has had.

 

[Reizilla]

Oooooooh, RCO lag. Well, yeah, that leaves him in normal landing lag, plus whatever frame advantage you get from jab plus the time it takes for him to hit the floor.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ike could forward tilt afterward. Not sure if the lag would cancel in any circumstances...

 

[AN(M)ist]

So after judging matches between top falco and top ike... wut do you guys think the MU is like?

 

[theeboredone]

I think he means this: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12535199&postcount=407

Yes, that would be the post. Hm...so only f-tlit works? Figure lol d-smash or upsmash could work.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I would say Falco has a pretty moderate advantage.

Not ****, but not even either, just a solid advantage.

BUT THAT'S JUST MY OPINION. I dont use either character.

 

[Reizilla]

Just take the cool down of Ike's jab and the start up of (insert move) and if it comes out to less than 15/20 frames, then it will work. Because of the landing, you might be able to add a couple frames to that.

Although, I think they could jump out of it before hitting the ground, which a good Falco would do after noticing what happened the first time.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

So after judging matches between top falco and top ike... wut do you guys think the MU is like?

I see it being fairly split. Some think it's not horrible a match-up for ike (like not his worst as some have said), others say it is his worst match-up. I think most of the time people brought it down to 60/40 - falco. Ike plays a good ground game like falco can if he gets a hit in with his jab, automatic 15%+ everytime against falco, and it does not take much to KO falco due to ike's power. Plus, ike has ways of getting around falco's lasers as any character does.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Just take the cool down of Ike's jab and the start up of (insert move) and if it comes out to less than 15/20 frames, then it will work. Because of the landing, you might be able to add a couple frames to that.

Although, I think they could jump out of it before hitting the ground, which a good Falco would do after noticing what happened the first time.

Ike's jab is too good and wont allow that unless they are really high above the ground.

 

[theeboredone]

Ike has to definitely work harder and make better reads compared to Falco. Ike also has to be wary of DI, incase he gets D-smashed and ends up falling at an angle off stage where it's impossible to recover. I would say it's 60-40 in Falco's favor. The match up has evolved since 2008, that's for sure.

 

[Z'zgashi]

In the new MU terms I'd say he has a solid -2.

 

[Reizilla]

Ike's jab is too good and wont allow that unless they are really high above the ground.

I see. Well then, ftilt away!

Random fact, this RCO lag, if Ganon gets grabbed out of his UpB by DDD, dthrow to fsmash is a true combo T_T

The new matchup system is terrible. All it does it make it easier to down-play the difficulty of a matchup.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Ike has to definitely work harder and make better reads compared to Falco. Ike also has to be wary of DI, incase he gets D-smashed and ends up falling at an angle off stage where it's impossible to recover. I would say it's 60-40 in Falco's favor. The match up has evolved since 2008, that's for sure.

Yeah, it mostly comes down to ike having practice at getting around falco's usual antics. Not really about the match-up evolving, more people getting accustomed to how a falco plays and what they can do to stop it. Dash attack falco's SH to stop him from lasering. Timed attacks to hit falco out of his phantasm. Such examples that take practice at doing. Falco against ike though has not really changed. Avoid getting hit by anything ike has or else it hurts hard.

 

[AN(M)ist]

since I play a good falco player here, I want to know if falco really has a grab relase to bdacus on ike?

Ike has to put in more work that's for sure. But I stay strong on the view that Ike's jab and bair always keep falco on his claws.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I see. Well then, ftilt away!

Random fact, this RCO lag, if Ganon gets grabbed out of his UpB by DDD, dthrow to fsmash is a true combo T_T

The new matchup system is terrible. All it does it make it easier to down-play the difficulty of a matchup.

lulz. It's worse than that. Ganon cannot jump out of an air release. So, he will hit the ground no matter what. Grab ganon out of UpB, air release, and snake has enough time to C4 or utilt xD

since I play a good falco player here, I want to know if falco really has a grab relase to bdacus on ike?

Ike has to put in more work that's for sure. But I stay strong on the view that Ike's jab and bair always keep falcos on his claws.

No. Falco is too low to the ground to ever force an air release against ike. Since ike's feet touch the ground, he will always ground release. The only time ike would air release is if he is not touching the ground, OR the ike player mashes out of the grab and hits up on the control stick, c-stick, or jump button.

So in this sense, air release -> bdacus will not work.

Yes, Jab is a pain in the arse. Honestly, if it were not for that, I think falco would really ruin ike because the rest of his moveset is too slow. Although, ike's jab seems to be the key to the character in general

 

[Reizilla]

So just don't mash jump when you get grabbed.


Ganon gets air-release chaingrabbed to gimped by Snake T_T

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Not enough ponies.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

So just don't mash jump when you get grabbed.
Ganon gets air-release chaingrabbed to gimped by Snake T_T

Pretty much. A ton of characters should never be able to get air released. Yet it happens because people mash jump button, control stick rotation (hitting up on it), or c-stick up.
Well, ganon is bad anyway More to abuse on him for those that know.

Not enough ponies.

It sure did quiet down.

 

[Reizilla]

It's all good. I can still dair to tipman to dair to uair/usmash all the snakes >:D

Spoiler

if they don't air dodge after the first dair T_T

 

[Zajice]

Ponies just participating in actual discussion.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Notice how the moment they stopped riding us and saying they hated ponies, andthen ACCEPTED OUR FRIENSHIP, it all became peacful again and we were able to help out!

THATS WHAT BEING A BRONY IS ALL ABOUT AMIRIGHT?!

 

[Reizilla]

Told you we weren't all that bad

Since I'm here anyway... How does Ike get beat by Ganondorf??? :<

 

[Z'zgashi]

I have no idea because he doesn't

 

[Reizilla]

I've done it once before!!!

Just don't know how I'd do it again T_T

 

[Z'zgashi]

Gerudo and dair EVERYTHING

 

[Reizilla]

Ah, just as normal, I see.