If you suck too much, the game gives you a free final smash

[Lemon Drop]

As long as crates/barrles/capsules can be turned off then items would actually be used in tournaments. Random exploding crates suck.

 

[Master Peach]

Well. it's official...again.



There ya go.

Also, it's been confirmed that you can turn off Smash Balls, so I think that they're pretty much out of tourneys.

Who are you to say that. That's not for you to say. Only the tournaments officials and Tournament makers are allowed to call this. You can't just say they won't be in tourneys just from this update. I believe there will be 2 types of tourneys. I'm very sure there will be major tourneys that will use the Smash ball. So go calling nothing unless your an official or work for MLG. It's rather pointless.

 

[EDreams]

The scared tourny types piss me off.

"Final Destination. Fox ONLY."

FAILURE

Anyways, even if the Pity Final Smash (still amused that's the official name) is an inherent part of having the Final Smash turned on, I don't think it'll hurt it's chances in tournaments anymore than they already are.

It really depends more on their potential balance and their game-breaking ability, things that will be decided after a while of testing. If the Pity Final Smash is decided to basically be a forced Sudden Death, then it will be banned.

 

[Tony_]

As you can see, final smashes overall, are easy to dodge unless the character is really lacking in the power area. The more powerful final smashes we have seen sort of tell me the character is kind of weak.

 

[EDreams]

Ike has one of the worst Final Smashes and he's a horrible character due to his speed. Even his power doesn't make up for it.
Bowser is somewhat faster, has one of the most game-breaking final smashes, and is a decent character.
And Donkey Kong disproves the "strong FS = weak character" theory completely.

 

[CrenTIScO]

Who are you to say that. That's not for you to say. Only the tournaments officials and Tournament makers are allowed to call this. You can't just say they won't be in tourneys just from this update. I believe there will be 2 types of tourneys. I'm very sure there will be major tourneys that will use the Smash ball. So go calling nothing unless your an official or work for MLG. It's rather pointless.

Hey, if you haven't noticed, these boards tend to have a lot of speculation. I've been reading that if Smash Balls were not able to be turned off, then of course they would be allowed in tournaments. Notice that I said I guess. I didn't say I know for sure that I'm right. I was guessing that if the option were there, competitive smashers would choose to turn the option off.

And what do mean, "that's not for me to say"?

First amendment please.

 

[Tony_]

Ike has one of the worst Final Smashes and he's a horrible character due to his speed. Even his power doesn't make up for it.
Bowser is somewhat faster, has one of the most game-breaking final smashes, and is a decent character.
And Donkey Kong disproves the "strong FS = weak character" theory completely.

The giga Bowser FS should have been a little obvious tho, and its also tells you something about the character.

Ike is a powerhouse character who doesn't need a good final smash to get the job done. Ike isn't horrible, at all. His start-up time for his attacks is slow.

DK is more or less, a powerhouse like Ike is only not on his strength level. His attacks might have tremendous knockback to them, equaling the weak as hell final smash.

 

[Irow]

Link and Metaknight has really powerful Final Smashes as well. And they aren't bad characters at all

Ike, however, has a problem with getting attacks off. He isn't horrible, but he's not at the level as the rest of the roster we've seen playable so far.

 

[EDreams]

Ike isn't horrible, at all. His start-up time for his attacks is slow.

In Smash, those two sentences are contradictory.

Even slow characters rely on their fastest attacks to win. All Ike has going for him is a variety of extremely predictable and easily dodged kill moves. If he never hits, he'll never get anywhere. And because of his movement speed and painful attack lag, he'll spend the entire match getting brutally punished for everything he does.

 

[Iceman12]

I think there are quite a few Smashers who are going to take a chance and use Ike (I'm also one of those people).

 

[EDreams]

Yeah, of course :O Dedede is probably going to be slower than molasses as well, but I still plan on maining him.

 

[Tony_]

In Smash, those two sentences are contradictory.

Even slow characters rely on their fastest attacks to win. All Ike has going for him is a variety of extremely predictable and easily dodged kill moves. If he never hits, he'll never get anywhere. And because of his movement speed and painful attack lag, he'll spend the entire match getting brutally punished for everything he does.

I will say this now. If skilled Ike players appear, they will dominate. why? They will eventually get the timing right enough to literally punish the opponent for most of their attacks and win VERY quickly.

 

[Mario77]

Wow, just when I had convinced myself that Sakurai couldn't do something this stupid. This is just pure bad design seeing as some final smashes are basically a free KO.

If there isn't an in game option to turn this off, action replay might become standard gear for tournaments

Uh, Final Smashes are not going to be used in competitive tournaments, at least ones with stakes. Final Smashse seem cool and all, and everyone realy wants to use them, but they will get old eventualy, and no one will mind if they are not used in tournaments. I cannot wait to use final smashes myself, but in tournaments no thanks, free KOs for gettin an item cannot be considered fair. Don't call Sakurai stupid, I am sure you can turn off Final Smashes and I am almost sure you can turn off handicaps of any kind. HOPEFULLY lol

 

[EDreams]

I will say this now. If skilled Ike players appear, they will dominate. why? They will eventually get the timing right enough to literally punish the opponent for most of their attacks and win VERY quickly.

Just like in Melee, right?

Wait.

 

[Master Peach]

Hey, if you haven't noticed, these boards tend to have a lot of speculation. I've been reading that if Smash Balls were not able to be turned off, then of course they would be allowed in tournaments. Notice that I said I guess. I didn't say I know for sure that I'm right. I was guessing that if the option were there, competitive smashers would choose to turn the option off.

And what do mean, "that's not for me to say"?

First amendment please.

Just making a point. And when I said "that's not for you to say" I was just saying since your not a tourney official or part of MLG it would be kind of pointless to say what you said. But its whatever so.... yeah whatever. lol

 

[Tony_]

Just like in Melee, right?

Wait.

Heh, you couldn't come back from that OR you have no comment. Which is it?

Also, many people are basically saying who is good and who is bad based on what happened at E for all. People, for all we know, Ike may have been changed completely. We don't know what will happen when the game comes out. For all we know Ike could be a high tier.

 

[CrenTIScO]

So, you don't believe someone can say something like, "Geno should be in Brawl" if you're not working on the game?

 

[Dragonboy2k4]

Yawn..I love it when people jump the gun and NOT read... :embarrass

"And then there’s an element known as the Pity Final Smash. Once a significant point advantage is reached, the losing player is given a bonus chance. When you get this, you will reappear after a KO in Final Smash standby mode".

"Now, IF you don’t want to use Final Smashes whatsoever(hint,hint), you can restrict the appearance of this item in the Item Switch. If you just turn Smash Balls off, you’ll be set.

:embarrass ...

 

[Iceman12]

Everyone knows power characters are never high tier because they aren't fast enough . I'm going to work hard at becoming the best Brawler I can be(see what I did there? hoho) and get into the competitive scene using Ike ;p.

 

[Tony_]

So, you don't believe someone can say something like, "Geno should be in Brawl" if you're not working on the game?

I never said anything relating to that. I was talking about gameplay, not character predictions.

 

[EDreams]

Heh, you couldn't come back from that OR you have no comment. Which is it?

What on Earth are you talking about? I never said I had no comment.

And Melee is a pretty valid comparison, if you mean that my response wasn't a good comeback. Brawl may not be exactly the same, but the "slow characters with slow attacks are easily punished and killed" rule is pretty much a universal fighting game fact.

Ike doesn't have a single fast attack. He can't even set up for a grab combo because his grab range is terrible. That, and grab combos have been nerfed.

Also, many people are basically saying who is good and who is bad based on what happened at E for all. People, for all we know, Ike may have been changed completely. We don't know what will happen when the game comes out. For all we know Ike could be a high tier.

It's called speculation. That's what these boards are about.

Of course I don't know what the final game will be like. I'm basing this opinion of Ike off what I do know to show that weak characters can have just as weak Final Smashes.

 

[Tony_]

What on Earth are you talking about? I never said I had no comment.

Wow...I AM tired XDD (As in sleepy xD)

And Melee is a pretty valid comparison, if you mean that my response wasn't a good comeback. Brawl may not be exactly the same, but the "slow characters with slow attacks are easily punished and killed" rule is pretty much a universal fighting game fact.

Soul Calibur 2 with out the glitch. Thats all I have to say.

Ike doesn't have a single fast attack. He can't even set up for a grab combo because his grab range is terrible. That, and grab combos have been nerfed.

I agree with you on this, but nerfing grab combos? Come-on man. =\

It's called speculation. That's what these boards are about.

Of course I don't know what the final game will be like. I'm basing this opinion of Ike off what I do know to show that weak characters can have just as weak Final Smashes.

Speculation can sometimes lead to rediculous claims.

I also post with what I know from the demo. I'm sleepin now. More tommorrow.

 

[SAMaine]

Sigh... Again, you guys are just doing hate on the Final Smash in General. If you think of the moves like Mario's Fireball and Lucas's PK Thunder and other moves like that as being "Special Attacks", then the Final Smash is the "Super Move." Normally, a Final Smash will only activate with a Smash Ball, which is confirmed to be considered an item that can be turned off. Knowing you tourney players are likely to turn off all items INCLUDING the Smash Ball, Nintendo implemented a way to use the Final Smash as a Desparation Attack, the Pity Final Smash, which probably won't be able to be turned off, though I can imagine it being able to be adjusted. If players of SNK's Fighters and Guilty Gear can handle Desparation Attacks, then you guys SHOULD be able to handle the Pity Final Smash with no trouble.

Essentially, Nintendo found another way to implement the Final Smash, without forcing people to use an item. Do we ban Peach's Turnips or Link's Bombs, just because they are technically items, albeit ones summoned by the player under a specific condition? I certainly don't think so. In fact, the Pity Final Smash takes the actual randomness out of the Final Smash. I mean, lets assume being three lives or points down from the second-lowest player is what it takes to activate the Pity Final Smash. You then KNOW the guy will respawn with that power and prepare accordingly, either by avoiding the guy all together, knocking the Final Smash out of him, or dodging the attacks.

 

[Iceman12]

I think Ike will be given a fair bit of super armor for his smash attacks so he can plow through being hit. Regardless, Im going to work very hard to master him.

 

[EDreams]

Soul Calibur 2 with out the glitch. Thats all I have to say.

Characters like Astaroth rely on their fast low-cooldown attacks to setup powerful combos while avoiding punishment. Watch a tourney video with Astaroth and I guarantee no Astaroth player would start a combo with a predictable and slow attack.

Note "fast" and "low-cooldown". Soul Calibur 2 is also a 3D fighting game, which I guess just proves my point even further. That it applies even when you change the dimensions.

I agree with you on this, but nerfing grab combos? Come-on man. =\

According to Gimpyfish, who is the most reliable source right now. They aren't as useful in Brawl as they were in Melee.

I also post with what I know from the demo.

You learned from the demo that Ike can be overhauled into a top-tier character? How, exactly?

I'd call that some pretty baseless speculation.

I think Ike will be given a fair bit of super armor for his smash attacks so he can plow through being hit. Regardless, Im going to work very hard to master him.

We can only hope. That'd be a pretty good way of making Ike useful, but hard to master.

 

[LuLLo]

Edreams, I don't agree with your rule of fighting games: ''slow characters with slow attacks are easily punished and killed''.....
Sure, they are easily punished and killed, if they are not used correctly, I own my friends Fox with Bowser every time I play against him, and yes, he's really good with Fox.
In Soul Calibur 2, I own everyone with Astaroth, the slow scythe and only underwear wearing powerhouse.
Slow characters aren't the greatest, but it's only how you use them.
Also, wasn't this thread about Smash Balls and not character-tier-placement?

On topic: Smash Balls can be turned off, and ofcourse the Pity Final Smash will be automatically turned off, stop crying about those things, just read the text Sakurai's translator typed through twice before posting.

 

[Dragonboy2k4]

Yawn..I love it when people jump the gun and NOT read... :embarrass

"And then there’s an element known as the Pity Final Smash. Once a significant point advantage is reached, the losing player is given a bonus chance. When you get this, you will reappear after a KO in Final Smash standby mode".

"Now, IF you don’t want to use Final Smashes WHATSOEVER!(hint,hint), you can RESTRICT the appearance of this item in the Item Switch. If you just turn Smash Balls off, you’ll be set.

:embarrass ...

Sigh... Again, you guys are just doing hate on the Final Smash in General. If you think of the moves like Mario's Fireball and Lucas's PK Thunder and other moves like that as being "Special Attacks", then the Final Smash is the "Super Move." Normally, a Final Smash will only activate with a Smash Ball, which is confirmed to be considered an item that can be turned off. Knowing you tourney players are likely to turn off all items INCLUDING the Smash Ball, Nintendo implemented a way to use the Final Smash as a Desparation Attack, the Pity Final Smash, which probably won't be able to be turned off, though I can imagine it being able to be adjusted. If players of SNK's Fighters and Guilty Gear can handle Desparation Attacks, then you guys SHOULD be able to handle the Pity Final Smash with no trouble.

Read above,that means in English they have a say.Theyll be in a minority for sure but,they still have control over what appears... :embarrass

 

[EDreams]

Edreams, I don't agree with your rule of fighting games: ''slow characters with slow attacks are easily punished and killed''.....
Sure, they are easily punished and killed, if they are not used correctly, I own my friends Fox with Bowser every time I play against him, and yes, he's really good with Fox.
In Soul Calibur 2, I own everyone with Astaroth, the slow scythe and only underwear wearing powerhouse.
Slow characters aren't the greatest, but it's only how you use them.

Sorry, but I'll take the opinion of the Bowser expert (who even admits himself that Bowser is a sucky character) over someone who only claims he owns with him.

And I did say that Astaroth is a powerful character in a relatively well-balanced game, but that's due to his few fast attacks setting up into monstrous combos. Ike doesn't have that going for him. Neither did Bowser in Melee.

Also, wasn't this thread about Smash Balls and not character-tier-placement?

True, we're getting way off topic :/

I still say Smash Balls will be used alongside items for a while, until a real decision is made. It's hard to speculate about how game-breaking they could be at this point.

 

[kashikomarimashita]

Pity FS just adds another element to the game thus making it more complex. Assuming you do play with final smashes it will only make it so skilled players implement more strategy to perfect weak players, while weak players will have a final chance to save face. It will by no means mean the difference between a win and loss. Its just a little something interesting. Thats all.

 

[Blackshadow]

Bowser DOES have fast attacks which set up into combos. Ever heard of UpB XD

 

[Magmar's Wrath]

A lot of you are acting like if people aren't as good as you, they don't deserve to have a pick-me-up.

Forgive the creators for wanting to make things a bit more balanced, because not everyone is a tournament playing champion "I do abilities not meant to be in the game like wavedashing" power gamer like you.

Some people play this game for fun between their friends, and some friends aren't as good as others. What, you think everyone out there is bad because they're rotten players?

Why not try saying to your girlfriend or grade-school little brother or close friend who's never played what you're saying here: "You suck, so you don't deserve a boost." Like to see how they react to that.

 

[shadydentist]

A lot of you are acting like if people aren't as good as you, they don't deserve to have a pick-me-up.

Forgive the creators for wanting to make things a bit more balanced, because not everyone is a tournament playing champion "I do abilities not meant to be in the game like wavedashing" power gamer like you.

Some people play this game for fun between their friends, and some friends aren't as good as others. What, you think everyone out there is bad because they're rotten players?

Why not try saying to your girlfriend or grade-school little brother or close friend who's never played what you're saying here: "You suck, so you don't deserve a boost." Like to see how they react to that.

I sense some unresolved bitterness here... the girlfriend and little brother analogy went a little far. In any event, its clear that brawl is dedicated to giving players as much choice as possible, so you'll be able to play it in any way you want.

 

[Magmar's Wrath]

I sense some unresolved bitterness here... the girlfriend and little brother analogy went a little far. In any event, its clear that brawl is dedicated to giving players as much choice as possible, so you'll be able to play it in any way you want.

I'm bitter that there is so much hatred over an opinion that:

(A) is more than likely able to be turned off, and
(B) help those who aren't 'professional' SSBM players like some of those BMWing.

 

[Bli33ard]

BMWing...?

Anyway, thank the Lord for having the ability to turn off the smash ball We knew it already anyway.

 

[Ruggeth]

OMG SCRUBS

OMG ITEMS

OMG STAGES

OMG NOT FOX

--

Rofl. Who cares. If they suck and get a final smash it just makes it more of a challenge for you.

I see more complaining about brawl than its compliments. Please, keep it for the melee section.

NO FINAL SMASH

NO NOT FOX

FINAL DESTINATION.

 

[Magmar's Wrath]

BMWing...?

Anyway, thank the Lord for having the ability to turn off the smash ball We knew it already anyway.

BMW = B**** Moan and Whine

Yah, people have the option. Like complaining that there is a light on in a room, and the switch is nearby.

 

[Luigi player]

What if you want to play with Smash Balls but the computers suck so much the get many of them. That'd be really annoying and boring.

 

[cF=)]

I LOST AGAIN, why in the name of God did you had to put "the game" in your title !

****

 

[Jumpinjahosafa]

What if you want to play with Smash Balls but the computers suck so much the get many of them. That'd be really annoying and boring.

So its fun and exciting to beat up on crappy computers?

Raise the level?

Challenge yourself?

Stop whining?

 

[Luigi player]

So its fun and exciting to beat up on crappy computers?

Raise the level?

Challenge yourself?

Stop whining?

Well it get's annoying if the computer always get's 2 or more smash balls.
Maybe it'll be fun... but if the computer always has a new smash ball when he dies if you have 3 more lives >_> I guess I'll have to play without them... If I want to train something or try to beat a computer 10 times without taking any damage or something ^^ (final smashes would make this a little unfair depending on the enemy's character)