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how about no
Needs buffs to his range, mostly on his Bair. Autocancel short hop lasers back. Less lag on up smash. But, up air needs to only be a single hit instead of 2, and have less knockback.
fair autocancels and screw those other changes zss upb still kills below 100%
I disagree. I think it should mainly be used for edgeguarding specific recoveries (Marth's Up B, MK's Up B, etc) since it can safely edgeguarding without getting punished, allowing you to go through the hitboxes of their recoveries.
You realize that Marth would be completely ruined if you shrank his tipper hitboxes, and if you're going to revert his range back to prepatch, than no character should be given any range buffs. Marth still has several attacks where the hitbox ends before the tip of hit sword as well as a very exploitable blind spot to his jab and u-tilt. If anything, his attacks that still have negative hits to them should get range buffs. U-smash has a big enough hitbox to it, the only thing that would possible need to be done about it is that the sourspot hitbox on the blade be shrunk so that the tipper hit can actually hit something.I can only speak for my mains here.
Needs an actual aerial side-b grab box. Smash attacks need less startup, and UP B NEEDS AN ACTUAL ATTACK HITBOX!!!! Seriously, the only time I hit with it is when I purposely glide across the ground and get punished. Also, have a lower overall scaling on aura. It can get ridiculous.
Don't know much I can do... either shrink the tipper hitboxes or revert him back to prepatch Marth. Oh yeah, and up smash needs a bigger hitbox.
Needs buffs to his range, mostly on his Bair. Autocancel short hop lasers back. Less lag on up smash. But, up air needs to only be a single hit instead of 2, and have less knockback.
Decrease range on Nair, since I find myself relying on it too much for combos. Change knockback angle on down throw, and give Up-b a smaller hitbox or substantially less knockback, but more horizontal distance.
These changes would completely ruin Marth and make Fox broken, I don't think they are a good idea.I can only speak for my mains here.
Don't know much I can do... either shrink the tipper hitboxes or revert him back to prepatch Marth. Oh yeah, and up smash needs a bigger hitbox.
Needs buffs to his range, mostly on his Bair. Autocancel short hop lasers back. Less lag on up smash. But, up air needs to only be a single hit instead of 2, and have less knockback.
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Please tell me you are joking. Do you have any idea what kind of a monstrosity you have just created?
Increased weight
Ganondorf's weight is 113. Samus' is 108. Suppose that since Samus in Metroid: Other M is shorter than previously thought, a woman who stands at approximately 1.75 m. she should have a mass of 66 kg. If the armor itself is 90 kg. based on the now outdated Metroid II: Return of Samus manual, then Samus' mass is 156 kg. with the armor on. Ganondorf, who stands at 2.29 m. (Hyrule Historia) has a mass of approximately 130 kg. With an additional 10% based on Hamwi's method, he should have a mass of 143 kg. With a percent difference, Samus' weight should be 122, while Ganondorf's remains at 113. This would actually put Samus' weight exactly at Donkey Kong's. Of course, since in fiction, Donkey Kong has a mass of 363 kg., I don't see Samus being equal to him. So even with a weight of 114, I'd be fine with that. Of course, weight and fall speed aren't the same, so Samus shouldn't end up being combo food like Bowser or Donkey Kong.
Air speed and acceleration
I wonder what it'd look like if Samus had better air speed on par with Zero Suit Samus. Maybe that would seem too fast. Perhaps lower than Zero Suit Samus, but maybe about as good as Sheik's. I wonder what that would look like. If it seemed too fast for Samus to the point her controls weren't optimal, then maybe decrease it somewhat to a point where it's tolerable. Of course, with improved air speed, that probably would be best to include its acceleration.
Run speed
I don't think running is all its cracked up to be, and while I thought maybe putting Samus' running on par with Zero Suit Samus' was a good idea, maybe it's not. I find it sad that two super-heavy characters like Bowser and Donkey Kong outrun Samus. What if Samus' run speed was at least as good as Mario's? Since the suit actually improves Samus' athleticism, and since she does acquire the speed booster, it'd be nice for a faster Samus.
All aerials auto-cancel
This might seem absurd, but in Brawl, this was a good thing for Samus. She was able to perform short hop homing missile cancel, allowing her to fire an additional missile to build a wall. In Sm4sh, this is nowhere to be found.
Crawling
I'd like to see Samus use her morph ball. Not only could she dodge certain projectiles, characters who can crawl are able to space themselves when the opponent is on the ledge, allowing them to find an opening for the opponent's error. Not to mention, the morph ball is one of the most iconic abilities in gaming history.
A roll with fewer frames
If the morph ball does one thing, it actually speeds up Samus' movement compared to crawling. We can observe this in Metroid: Zero Mission, where when Samus crawls, space pirates who also crawl after her can keep up. Yet, with the morph ball, she leaves them in the dust. So, fewer frames for a roll would be nice. Rolling wouldn't be so bad for Samus players.
An additional jump
Pit, who is canonically incapable of flight, can perform multiple jumps, whereas Samus is stuck to a double jump to screw attack. The space jump allows Samus to jump infinitely, but all I would like is a third jump.
Faster grab and less lag when retracting the beam
This and that speak for themselves.
Increased hit stun
I'd be nice if Samus' jabs had hit stun. It makes no sense as to why Zero Suit Samus has hit stun with her jabs, where her armored counter-part doesn't. Come on, Nintendo. Armor means better.
"Harder, better, faster, stronger" super missiles
It's sad to see homing missiles easily destroyed by a jab, but even if it wants to function that way, I think super missiles deserve to be, well, super. Make it so that super missiles aren't destroyed by Link's arrows or gale boomerang. Make it so that stronger attacks are required to destroy super missiles like a smash attack, or shadow ball, or aura sphere. It's great that charge shots destroy super missiles and keep going, but super missiles should be able to take more punishment. More speed like in Melee would be great, too. Its knockback would also be fantastic like in Melee.
More kill moves
In Melee, down smash could KO. In Brawl, down tilt could KO. These should make a comeback. Samus needs more kill moves. She can KO with a full charge shot, n-air (I love the new n-air), b-air, u-smash, and possibly screw attack, but even the screw attack doesn't mean much. And don't bother bringing up the shinespark method because that's not as easy to perform as it sounds. It's also limited on percentage of the opponent and the stage. B-air is difficult to KO a grounded opponent because the landing lag leaves Samus open. Zero Suit Samus, on the other hand, is pretty safe. I'd love to see something like that.
Fix d-air
D-air serves one purpose, and that's to spike. I don't like these sour spots for it. Let it be old-school and do what it's meant to do.
Fix f-smash
This attack still whiffs, believe it or not. That needs to be fixed.
Fix u-smash
It annoys me that Link's u-smash will remain connected to the opponent if the opponent happens to get hit by the first part of u-smash. Why is it that Samus' u-smash can't do the same? It's not an issue of DI. It's just an issue with the attack itself. I think it should be like Link's u-smash.
Kill throws
It seems like everyone has a kill throw, especially when these characters never demonstrated such strength to throw people like rag dolls. Marth's up throw shouldn't happen, for example. Olimar's forward throw? Since when can this little man kill by throwing? Samus at least has demonstrated such strength. That there could be applied for Samus' back throw. Her up throw should also kill, since she throws Vorash up into the air. Let's think about this. Vorash is about the size of a whale shark, which has the average mass of 21 metric tons. Remove the density and we end up with a volume. Now, since Vorash is swimming in magma, which is far more viscous than water, that would require greater density on Vorash's part. Otherwise, he'd just be atop the magma. This means that with a density of 2.45 g/cm^3 (andesitic magma density), Vorash's mass goes at least close to 50 metric tons, and that's ignoring the layer of magma added to him, as well as those fins of his. So 50 metric tons is a reasonable approximation. Samus needs kill throws. After all, if she's not going to have a good grab, she may as well be rewarded for taking a risk. So, either kill throws or better grab. I'm thinking the former is better.
Bombs
I'd be nice if they behaved like proximity bombs like in Melee.
Even without changing her speed, weight, air speed and acceleration, giving her hit stun for her jabs, a better roll, the ability to crawl, and more kill moves wouldn't be broken. A lot of Samus mains think Samus is mid-tier. I don't agree with them, but who am I? They know more than I do, but Samus isn't the only character who has been improving her meta. Let's think about a few of the changes.
I don't, but I suspect from the sounds of it, you do. What do you think is extreme?
Excuse me sir Mewtwo's aerials are already amazing, his fair is possibly the best fair in the game
These changes are still absolutely way too much.
Falcon doesn't have projectiles, a tether grab, three jumps, a recovery mixup and has a bad disadvantage stage. I also think Samus should use some buffs, but in everything? No.
And tht invalidates my point because...? I was talking about the autocanceles on aerials which Cloud has in abundance.
jesus talk about looking into things too much
So, let me make a few changes that hopefully are a little less extreme.
The details matter.
A third jump seems like it would be broken unless you nerfed her ability to chain u-airs, without that she'd have an elevator that's potentially more broken than ZSS.
should be buffed, probably at the top of low tier or end of mid tier with these changes:
I would make Nair even faster (frame 3) and give Kirby two actual combo throws with high BK and low KBG (f-throw and d-throw comes into mind) so that he can have actual kill confirms. Bring back his glory from the Smash 64 days :DThis is how I think
-Faster air speed (0.8 -> 0.9)
-Up Tilt has less KBG (116/110 -> 90/84)
-Up Smash comes out faster (Frame 14 -> Frame 8)
-Nair comes out faster (Frame 10 -> Frame 5)
-Fair comes our faster (Frame 10 -> Frame 5)
-Up Air comes out faster (Frame 10 -> Frame 6)
-Up Air has less FAF (40 -> 32)
-Dair comes out faster (Frame 18 -> Frame 14)
-Standing grab grabbox increased to cover his entire arm
-Dash grab has less FAF (39 -> 32)
Kirby obviously needs better air speed. His air speed gives him a hard time approaching in the air as many of his good moves are in the air. This also would give him a slightly easier time landing. Up Tilt would combo better and later percents so he can rack damage more easily. I felt Up Smash could come out faster so it can kill more easily. Probably made Fox Up Smash 2.0 though. Hos frame data in the air is not good. All aerials except Bair come our faster so he doesn't get beaten out in the air as hard. Up Air having less FAF allows Kirby to juggle and combo better, and the decrease on startup also helps with that. Standing grab for some reason doesn't cover Kirby's entire arm, that should be fixed. Dash Grab having less FAF makes it safer to use, even though it probably wasnt needed.
I think you’ve buffed a few things that don’t really need to be buffed here or buffed them too much. Usmash, for one, is way too powerful to be a frame 8 option. I’d rather remove the sourspots so the move doesn’t need to hit on frame one to be useful. In general, all of Kirby’s smashes are in a pretty good place as is. Making nair, fair, and uair that much faster is unnecessary because the moves reward a hit more than other frame 5-6 options, although I agree that they need some more speed. If you look at my previous post about Kirby changes, that just about covers it. There I buff his options that really need work. For example, I make his up throw actually kill before 150 and put Stone on par with Bowser Bomb by making it break shields. You really should just look at the whole thing though.This is how I think
-Faster air speed (0.8 -> 0.9)
-Up Tilt has less KBG (116/110 -> 90/84)
-Up Smash comes out faster (Frame 14 -> Frame 8)
-Nair comes out faster (Frame 10 -> Frame 5)
-Fair comes our faster (Frame 10 -> Frame 5)
-Up Air comes out faster (Frame 10 -> Frame 6)
-Up Air has less FAF (40 -> 32)
-Dair comes out faster (Frame 18 -> Frame 14)
-Standing grab grabbox increased to cover his entire arm
-Dash grab has less FAF (39 -> 32)
Kirby obviously needs better air speed. His air speed gives him a hard time approaching in the air as many of his good moves are in the air. This also would give him a slightly easier time landing. Up Tilt would combo better and later percents so he can rack damage more easily. I felt Up Smash could come out faster so it can kill more easily. Probably made Fox Up Smash 2.0 though. Hos frame data in the air is not good. All aerials except Bair come our faster so he doesn't get beaten out in the air as hard. Up Air having less FAF allows Kirby to juggle and combo better, and the decrease on startup also helps with that. Standing grab for some reason doesn't cover Kirby's entire arm, that should be fixed. Dash Grab having less FAF makes it safer to use, even though it probably wasnt needed.
While Up Smash may be powerful, it also lacks range, and a frame 14 kill move that has low range is a little underwhelming.
Frame 3 nair is way too much, since Kirby already has great reward from hitting nair and is too light to get such a godly combo escape tool and combo starter. The hitbox duration is long enough to make it oppressive on approach at frame 3. Kirby’s usmash is actually more powerful than Fox’s, so what I said before about removing sourspots seems better to me. Additionally, Fthrow is already a combo throw and, might I say, a pretty good one at that.
If Kirby’s airspeed was better, I definitely think his aerial frame data wouldn’t be as big a deal, especially considering his aerials are already all good during strings and combos. I never said they shouldn’t be faster, but rather that they shouldn’t be that fast. In my changes, nair, fair, amd uair are frame 8 moves now. In my experience, he rarely needs them to be much faster than that. Also, your dair buff is definitely fine and in line with what I said. Kirby also shouldn’t have aerials that are too fast because of their reward (which is actually quite good; Kirby can follow up out of all aerials bar back air) in advantage and his bait and punish style, which fits him. Usmash also balances out well with his other smashes, considering fsmash covers usmash’s weaknesses and usmash is better at catching landings, with dsmash being the fastest when you need it.
I think rage plays a role in these early kill percents. It seems that the ladder combo with u-air, u-air, to up special is based on early percents, as in 0%. Maybe an extra jump would would allow for Samus to perform this ladder combo at somewhat higher percents, but I can't say I know if it'd work every time at higher percents. As for ZSS' ladder combo, that can only be set up at 30% and just below 50%. There might be exceptions with alpha stages, but I've never been able to perform a ladder combo below 30% or above 50%.
I agree. It's especially annoying when opponents can fall out of u-smash, but in Link's case, they're pretty much stuck.
Kirby needs a combo breaker because he has hard time landing and easily gets juggled to death by characters like fox or cloud with their disjointed up-airs.
I could get behind a DI mix up, but if it's always F-throw that is a kill confirm, you'll get in a situation like Diddy Kong was, hoo ha. If you think surface level meta is bad you'd be really sad when all Kirby's only use Fthrow-kill confirm only.
I didn't mind hoo ha and I still don't mind it.
I’m absolutely positive Kirby doesn’t need a combo breaker, and he has a pretty good time landing too. He really doesn’t need any fthrow changes, because it works for a while on most of the cast and he has plenty of stuff for higher percents. He also doesn’t need kill confirm DI mixups because he’s a combo oriented character that shouldn’t get stocks for free off a grab like that. He shouldn’t be 64 level either because that was broken. If you look at my post, I buffed Kirby to mid tier status pretty solidly.
Ew mid-tier. Why stop your favorite character at that level?
Not every character needs to be high or top tier. If everyone is good you have brawl minus.
But more "balanced" mid-tiers are just adding more mediocre, boring characters. I don't think that's a good way to stimulate the meta.
brawl minus is a parody. nearly every character has dumb gimmicks to equalize the roster and make everyone on-par with brawl meta knight, maybe stronger since they actually buffed him a bit. it's an exaggeration.
