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"I'd Telegraph That!" - Little Mac Video Thread

Cookie Boy

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Peach followed by Pikachu. If Sheik is macs toughest matchups, she is at the bottom of his top 10
I had forgotten about Peach, and it makes so much sense that she'd be Mac's worst mu now that you mention it. However I do feel like Pikachu is harder. Mainly due to his small size, easy combos and annoying projectiles. I suppose it all comes down to personal skill and experience. One Mac can say that Peach is hardest while another can say that Villager is.
 

Solreth

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Oct 5, 2014
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Its all subjective of course. I dont believe my experience or inputs to be objectively correct. They are merely the culmination of my experiences and understanding. Its entirely feasible that you understand something more in various aspects. I think keeping an open mind is crucial. The Forum is meant to be a place of discussion. Pikachu is harder to you? Not at all unreasonable. Some people claim Sheik. I choose to understand that in spite of my own personal experiences.

TLDR: I agree.
 

jet56

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so i went and did some major labbing today, and discovered quite a few things. will post my results in about an hour i hope. side note, looked over my matches, and i was doing two things wrong in the shiek matchup:
1. i was shielding too much when shiek approached, making me easy to read
2. i wasn't using utilt to stuff her out of the air, or jab and dtilt to stuff her on the ground.

basically, i played defensive cause i thought i had no options against the matchup, which is why it felt like a 90-10. if i were being honest with myself, after practice and playing some other shieks, i would personally give it a 70-30 instead of a 90-10. i just didn't know how to deal with her in neutral.
 

Solreth

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This Jet. Up-tilt REALLY is the central key to this matchup. That and a solid recovery game.
 

jet56

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yep and thanks for questioning me on it, just never had any one actually say i was wrong on it before. im working on a combo thread for mac right now actually, will be done in 30 min i think. funny thing is, uair actually combos into stuff, as a little sneak peak into it.
 

Solreth

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*nod* Thanks for considering my words too. I hope it helps you in your future matches as there are a lot of sheiks out there.
 

Dezmu

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Little Mac Concepts and Combos 2 By TEG Alphicans
Alphicans come backs with a new concepts and Combos Little Mac Guide

 

jet56

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Little Mac Concepts and Combos 2 By TEG Alphicans
Alphicans come backs with a new concepts and Combos Little Mac Guide

cool that he mentions a lot of stuff that other mac videos don't touch on. the only thing i would think to add is the value of dtilt>pp Utilt in terms of combo extending, especially after the opponent is out of side b combo range, or you are too close to edge to use it. it sets up usmash strings and up b combos, and is overall safer to use in neutral for damage than side b at later percents.

the other thing i think should be mentioned (although i only recently discovered this myself) is that Uair actually combos into a ton of stuff when you fast fall it. i can legitimately do fast fall Uair>dtilt>pputilt>usmash>up b on most characters except light ones at mid percent. in short, uair is a combo extender that you can use in air. if your opponent is below you, you can fast fall uair to catch them by surprise and can lead into serious combos. or if you dair lock, it can turn it into a Uair>dtilt>jc usmash for a kill set up on midweights and fast fallers. i can go on, but the point is, Uair adds serious combo potential to little macs gameplay, and actually makes it in my opinion his most useful aerial.
 

Solreth

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Jet I really appreciate your mentions here and think you're right. PPivot up-tilt is an amazing extender, especially near ledges, and up-air has true combo potential though its much more niche as its a huge risk in neutral to come down with it.
 

jet56

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Jet I really appreciate your mentions here and think you're right. PPivot up-tilt is an amazing extender, especially near ledges, and up-air has true combo potential though its much more niche as its a huge risk in neutral to come down with it.
haha thanks and yeah, ive been looking for ways of to use it in neutral, like a nair followed by uair, but so far, haven't found a way to implement it consistently into my gameplay. TBH, ive been labbing a ton with combos and other stuff with mac, as im going to genesis 3.
 
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inconspikuous

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Mar 5, 2006
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314
i'd like to see your use of uair in a match because i would love to start being able to use it. personally, i can _never_ land it... it looks like the hitbox is terrible. i find that mac already has a problem facing characters that can duck (ie. pikachu, kirby) -- how much more difficult when you have to literally be inside the other character's hurtbox (or if they're airborne, have them land on your tiny hitbox in the 3ish frames that the hitbox is out.)
 

sirchadakiss18

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i'd like to see your use of uair in a match because i would love to start being able to use it. personally, i can _never_ land it... it looks like the hitbox is terrible. i find that mac already has a problem facing characters that can duck (ie. pikachu, kirby) -- how much more difficult when you have to literally be inside the other character's hurtbox (or if they're airborne, have them land on your tiny hitbox in the 3ish frames that the hitbox is out.)

LOL youre like the second person to mention Uair, to use, I see this as a sign for me, cause I recently came back to using it lmao


Edit: Also why doesn't anyone talk about Dash Attacks combo potential?
 
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inconspikuous

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LOL youre like the second person to mention Uair, to use, I see this as a sign for me, cause I recently came back to using it lmao


Edit: Also why doesn't anyone talk about Dash Attacks combo potential?
so let's see some uair footage! and i saw that dash attack>pp utilt. what other dash attack combos are you talking about though? besides the dash attack>dash attack, of course.
 

Lufos

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That was very inspirational! I'm gonna face a pretty good villager in a tournament coming up, and seing that we can pretty much take it slow and beat villager as long as we dont make any mistakes (like trying to trade fair with a growing tree ;) )
 

jet56

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yo, i thought i was the only one who used street fighter alpha music when i played smash. chun lee and dan themes, damn i love it.

anyways, love the patience here, that's the best thing you can do against characters like villager.
 
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Dezmu

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yo, i thought i was the only one who used street fighter alpha music when i played smash. chun lee and dan themes, damn i love it.

anyways, love the patience here, that's the best thing you can do against characters like villager.
Nintendo likes to copy write the **** out of videos so i took the music out and put something else on
 

sirchadakiss18

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so let's see some uair footage! and i saw that dash attack>pp utilt. what other dash attack combos are you talking about though? besides the dash attack>dash attack, of course.

Well Dash Attack to PP Utilt is a true combo, and from the Utilt I follow up with a Heavy hitting UFsmash to Upsmash or Up B, decent 50+ %
 
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sirchadakiss18

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I played sloppy tbh, I still have problems landing safely vs Fox.

Edit: Also I messed up the Spacing on that Shield break Opp. which wouldve ended the game @ 1:40
 
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CaptainKrook

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So I was playing against a friend of mine who mains Little Mac. I decided to choose the Duck Hunt stage since Meta Knight can out camp Little Mac in the tree if necessary. Once he got a KO Punch, I decided to go in the tree, and here is what happened :] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baRwVJgOhjo
 

inconspikuous

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another EU little mac "destany" putting in work vs zss in winners finals. pretty legit:


saw gazelle, edd, not too much pp but a lot of good tech and smart decisions in this set.
 
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D

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I've been getting into Mac recently and have been wanting to pick him up as a secondary. Mind if someone gave me their thoughts on my play here?
 
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jet56

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got some tourney matches here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLZ83-oz_ZE :4littlemac:vs:4sheik:
IDK, but thanks to advice from Sol, i can play this match and win it now, with what i know, and how to play. and my recovery improved a ton when i saved my jump as much as i could. otherwise, just bread and butter combos, and punished this shiek when they used the on stage up b.

Side note: i took a game off of saiki, the best shiek player in state, and arguably the best player in AZ, with mac, so i have made a ton of progress. now i just have to beat a top 10 player in bracket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvmS3gzmT0w:4littlemac:vs:4dk:

this matchup feels like its not in my favor, i lose really bad to shields as it is, and DK's grab range makes it absurd. basically i had to do a lot of safe pressure and reads, with an occasional grab mixup to play this match.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=593FlmLTM6Q :4littlemac:vs:4falcon:and :4dk:

A little background knowledge for you guys, the man named crup is 3rd best in state, so i enjoyed this match a lot. i learned why the :4falcon:matchup is so bad for :4littlemac:. basically he wins neutral, and gets huge conversions, while when i win neutral, and get some follow ups, but nothing like falcon. basically i got read for using in place tech and not mixing it up. and the counter was, well...let's just say that's why i don't like counter. The match with his :4dk: was pretty ok, till i was a dumbass and tried to Fair him. on a platform. on town and city. against DK. yeah, not a good decision on my part.

http://challonge.com/SmashLab13Smash4 bracket for matches

overall, i did well, basically im at the point where i can beat anyone in bracket till i meet someone on PR, aka a top 10 player in my state. seems like its my final roadblock.
 
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sirchadakiss18

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A lot of you need to abuse the Roll cancel grab to get more grabs and apply more pressure and rack more damage, everyone is always shielding against Mac, get them Grabs in!!!!!
 

inconspikuous

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so... without quadruple posting i'm going to address a lot of the earlier posts here (because i feel bad when people don't reply to me lol).


I've been getting into Mac recently and have been wanting to pick him up as a secondary. Mind if someone gave me their thoughts on my play here?
not bad, but that peach wasn't punishing you for a lot of the laggy aerial moves you were using in that match. for glory isn't a good test for how to play 'effectively', but if you learn mac's movement options like edd or pp you could step your mac game up a lot.

got some tourney matches here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLZ83-oz_ZE :4littlemac:vs:4sheik:
IDK, but thanks to advice from Sol, i can play this match and win it now, with what i know, and how to play. and my recovery improved a ton when i saved my jump as much as i could. otherwise, just bread and butter combos, and punished this shiek when they used the on stage up b.

Side note: i took a game off of saiki, the best shiek player in state, and arguably the best player in AZ, with mac, so i have made a ton of progress. now i just have to beat a top 10 player in bracket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvmS3gzmT0w:4littlemac:vs:4dk:

this matchup feels like its not in my favor, i lose really bad to shields as it is, and DK's grab range makes it absurd. basically i had to do a lot of safe pressure and reads, with an occasional grab mixup to play this match.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=593FlmLTM6Q :4littlemac:vs:4falcon:and :4dk:

A little background knowledge for you guys, the man named crup is 3rd best in state, so i enjoyed this match a lot. i learned why the :4falcon:matchup is so bad for :4littlemac:. basically he wins neutral, and gets huge conversions, while when i win neutral, and get some follow ups, but nothing like falcon. basically i got read for using in place tech and not mixing it up. and the counter was, well...let's just say that's why i don't like counter. The match with his :4dk: was pretty ok, till i was a ******* and tried to Fair him. on a platform. on town and city. against DK. yeah, not a good decision on my part.

http://challonge.com/SmashLab13Smash4 bracket for matches

overall, i did well, basically im at the point where i can beat anyone in bracket till i meet someone on PR, aka a top 10 player in my state. seems like its my final roadblock.
good stuff jet. looking slick against shiek over there. crup really had your number though... i think that set was less about mu knowledge there, and more about being able to get in the opponent's head. on crup's side, he knew that mac's aerial/landing options are limited and shield pressure options are slow, so he just tried to keep you uncomfortable the entire time. (which i think is why he was able to beat you with both c.falcon and dk -- even if you had great mu knowledge for c.falcon and dk, as long as the opponent is playing a style that maximizes mac's airtime and plays in shield on the ground, it's going to be difficult if you can't figure out their habits/weaknesses.) i guess it's just experience -- keep it up man, you're doing great!

Little Lab Work With Mac


great tech japan! this stuff isn't very widely used, and to be completely honest, i suck at buffering pputilt, but it looks like there's a lot of mileage that you can get out of the da>pputilt. i'm also going to start trying that ua-fsmash crossup, but i feel like most characters will grab mac in the long startup. that dtilt>buffered jc usmash looks slick as well, but i wonder how DI and percentage factor into it. it looks like it would only be reliable around 80-90% -- still a great option if you get it. good look man, keep that mac knowledge open. i've been seeing a lot of macs showing in different regions -- i think he's become a lot more legitimate/viable in recent months, and a good part of it is sharing useful tech like this. stay up!

Dedede main here but thought you guys might like this little clip from a match I had yesterday https://youtu.be/Pk2SrK9MoWQ
lol. that was worth the click
 
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Splash Damage

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I'll get into it more later on, but I have to disagree on Mac v Falcon. IMO, it's definitely if not won respectably by Mac.
Edit:Nevermind just came upon some extra time, I'll make it brief and maybe expand upon it later.
Basically, if Falcon gets a grab, Mac loses stage control, takes some damage, and maybe gets gimped if Falcon has impeccable timing. If Mac gets a down tilt, Falcon eats at least two more down tilts, a side B, and a tech chase that could potentially lead into Dtilt>Fsmash or Dtilt>Dsmash. Mac's tilt combos are also rugged on Falcon, able to always without exception get at least two down tilts or up tilts on him and can even confirm Dtilt>KO punch at 80% with equal rage. Falcon has to somehow get a grab dealing with Mac's disgustingly good frame data, transcendent move priority, and respect demanding close range walling. Not to mention Mac's amazing forward roll enabling him to cross up Falcon on a dashgrab and remain out of risk on Falcon's dance pivot mixups.
Also, the ability to easily and reliably down smash Falcon's recovery thanks to the hurt box on the hand during Falcon Dive is an absolutely crushing downside for Falcon in this MU, as it puts him and Mac on the same playing field in terms of edge guarding:One mistake means you're offstage taking tons of damage or even dying. You can net kills on Falcon at 80% with a down smash ledge hit.
After having played against countless falcons and beaten most of them(Massachusetts is the freaking breeding ground for Falcons) and beating the best falcon in the region, I think Mac definitely wins the matchup 55/45, or maybe even 60/40 on a stretch.
 
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inconspikuous

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I'll get into it more later on, but I have to disagree on Mac v Falcon. IMO, it's definitely if not won respectably by Mac.
Edit:Nevermind just came upon some extra time, I'll make it brief and maybe expand upon it later.
Basically, if Falcon gets a grab, Mac loses stage control, takes some damage, and maybe gets gimped if Falcon has impeccable timing. If Mac gets a down tilt, Falcon eats at least two more down tilts, a side B, and a tech chase that could potentially lead into Dtilt>Fsmash or Dtilt>Dsmash. Mac's tilt combos are also rugged on Falcon, able to always without exception get at least two down tilts or up tilts on him and can even confirm Dtilt>KO punch at 80% with equal rage. Falcon has to somehow get a grab dealing with Mac's disgustingly good frame data, transcendent move priority, and respect demanding close range walling. Not to mention Mac's amazing forward roll enabling him to cross up Falcon on a dashgrab and remain out of risk on Falcon's dance pivot mixups.
Also, the ability to easily and reliably down smash Falcon's recovery thanks to the hurt box on the hand during Falcon Dive is an absolutely crushing downside for Falcon in this MU, as it puts him and Mac on the same playing field in terms of edge guarding:One mistake means you're offstage taking tons of damage or even dying. You can net kills on Falcon at 80% with a down smash ledge hit.
After having played against countless falcons and beaten most of them(Massachusetts is the freaking breeding ground for Falcons) and beating the best falcon in the region, I think Mac definitely wins the matchup 55/45, or maybe even 60/40 on a stretch.
sounds great. any vid links?
 

inconspikuous

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more tourney mac styles for your consideration:

"Jila" looks like a legit mac from france, putting in work against a luigi:
(don't be fooled by the time, the set actually ends around the 7 min mark)
a lot of good stuff in this video. good optimizaiton and follow-ups -- a little heavy on the roll-in crossup at ledge>jab2>upB, but it was working against his opponent, so he had no reason to stop doing it. he doesn't really edd or pp much, but still gets really good positioning.

vs a fox:
(this set ends at 6:15)
he's good. really good at spotdodge confirms -- an underrated mac defensive option as his frame data out of spotdodge is arguably the best in the game. i think i'm going to try to start using it more. i like his use of jab2 in both of these sets -- covers shield drop and converts into a number of different confirms.

overall i'm really glad i found this guy. hope you guys find things in his style that you can use!

EDIT: here's destany (swiss?) from my earlier post, this time in GF. exciting grand finals, imo, but if you only want to see the mac matches, they start at 27:15:
not as 'clean' looking as jila, but then again, this is GF so nerves and competition are probably more intense. still a lot of good tech and movement by destany, even though he did get lucky a couple times. anyway, repping for mac nation is always great so kudos to him.
 
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jet56

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Jun 7, 2015
Messages
442
more tourney mac styles for your consideration:

"Jila" looks like a legit mac from france, putting in work against a luigi:
(don't be fooled by the time, the set actually ends around the 7 min mark)
a lot of good stuff in this video. good optimizaiton and follow-ups -- a little heavy on the roll-in crossup at ledge>jab2>upB, but it was working against his opponent, so he had no reason to stop doing it. he doesn't really edd or pp much, but still gets really good positioning.

vs a fox:
(this set ends at 6:15)
he's good. really good at spotdodge confirms -- an underrated mac defensive option as his frame data out of spotdodge is arguably the best in the game. i think i'm going to try to start using it more. i like his use of jab2 in both of these sets -- covers shield drop and converts into a number of different confirms.

overall i'm really glad i found this guy. hope you guys find things in his style that you can use!

EDIT: here's destany (swiss?) from my earlier post, this time in GF. exciting grand finals, imo, but if you only want to see the mac matches, they start at 27:15:
not as 'clean' looking as jila, but then again, this is GF so nerves and competition are probably more intense. still a lot of good tech and movement by destany, even though he did get lucky a couple times. anyway, repping for mac nation is always great so kudos to him.
the jila kid is good for sure, it takes a long time for a mac to always choose the most optimal follow-up or combo, as a lot of macs will miss that extra percent. i still cannot stress the power of Dash Dance and PPivot for mac, it is so good for him, it lets him play footsies all day and do anything out of neutral super fast. one day ill make a guide listing all the things you can do out of a dash dance/ppivot (which BTW, you can pp out of dash dance, greatly opening up macs neutral options.)

also, thanks for the feedback inconspikuous on my matches, TBH, i just have to grab more, and keep an active mind on how im coming down to the ground, or how im teching. i personally hate grabbing as mac, as the risk of wiffing or eating an attack is to me not worth it for the measly percent, but im gonna have to in order to make my opponent more wary of shielding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tQGsRwIifk Zero playing little mac

i love when zero tries out new characters, but seeing zero not fully using little mac or his toolset fills me with pride tbh. it means that even the best players can't just "PICK UP" mac and start playing him like other characters in the game (looking at :4ness::4zss::4mario: and :4luigi:to name a few.)

also incon, you mentioned a thread on how to get out of strings in the air as mac, i have a few tips in mind, and one i recently discovered as very good and a combo starter. Hint: it involves uair. i was gonna post a thread later today on it.
 
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