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"I'd Telegraph That!" - Little Mac Video Thread

shinhed-echi

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I was a bit nervous here. Because I have to be on my toes against ZSS, since one grab is fatal. So I made a lot of mistakes, and also slipped a lot.

I really feel I should have won this one.. I have no idea how it all turned around.

Thoughts? This was my first tourney.
 

Ghidorah14

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 4, 2015
Messages
758
I was a bit nervous here. Because I have to be on my toes against ZSS, since one grab is fatal. So I made a lot of mistakes, and also slipped a lot.

I really feel I should have won this one.. I have no idea how it all turned around.

Thoughts? This was my first tourney.
First match, I can definitely tell that you were nervous. A little less down smashes and a little more ftilts would've gone a long way, but you managed to pull it together in the end with that sick b-reverse KO punch.

Second match ended in pure jank, so dont blame yourself too much. Otherwise, you did good, but perhaps rushed down a bit too much. You also did what a lot of us sometimes do out of habit when he whiff a move, and thats just throw out another one in hopes of covering our ass. Sometimes its just better to back off and reset the game to neutral.

Lastly, you should try and make it a habit of using the angled fsmash variants more. Down angled fsmash is better at low percents (more damage, no need for extra knockback anyway) and up angled fsmash would've been a good cap to that uptilt string you had in game 2 as opposed to the neutral one.
 

shinhed-echi

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First match, I can definitely tell that you were nervous. A little less down smashes and a little more ftilts would've gone a long way, but you managed to pull it together in the end with that sick b-reverse KO punch.
Yeah, ftilts would have been lifesavers. I'll keep that in mind next time. The pressure urged me to get ZSS off me, and I instinctively reach for Dsmash, but for some reason kept hitting blanks.

...not going to lie, that last part was pretty hype. And winning this match boosted my confidence a lot. (Perhaps a little too much).


Second match ended in pure jank, so dont blame yourself too much. Otherwise, you did good, but perhaps rushed down a bit too much. You also did what a lot of us sometimes do out of habit when he whiff a move, and thats just throw out another one in hopes of covering our ***. Sometimes its just better to back off and reset the game to neutral.

Lastly, you should try and make it a habit of using the angled fsmash variants more. Down angled fsmash is better at low percents (more damage, no need for extra knockback anyway) and up angled fsmash would've been a good cap to that uptilt string you had in game 2 as opposed to the neutral one.
I will take that into account as well. It seems that everytime I'm winning, I start chasing down my opponent, and that's not something I should do. It's a terrible habit that I really need to terminate.
I can no longer count the times I've lost after having the upper hand in the match because of this.

Time to practice those variants. Nervousness gets in the way, but I admit I threw the straight ones out of pressure.


Thanks for your input! Little Mac is actually not as bad as I thought. If I play it cool, I could very well hold my ground on the more uphill battles. I really like this character, and I'll try pushing him as far as I can.
 

Ghidorah14

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758
I think little mac is a character that everyone should learn how to play. Even if you dont care for the character or playstyle, playing him teaches you how to be patient and work on your spacing, as one wrong move could mean your stock.

A lot of online little macs play super aggressive and just throw out smash attacks cuz "OMG SUPER ARMOR" but really, if you're playing little mac, you 100% NEED to learn how to just chill out and know when to back off.
 

Lufos

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Hey!
Just looked through my replays in case I wanted something recorded before the patch and I found this one. Got a sweet Gazelle punch :D For some reason it got a little bit laggy sometimes when I recorded it, don't know why but too lazy to record it again.

 

Swamp Sensei

Today is always the most enjoyable day!
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Did I ever show you guys this?
 

inconspikuous

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MONTAGE TIME!
good stuff jet! gotta say i like your anti-air game. your use of upsmash as an anti-air is ballsy but very rewarding if it connects. i'm pretty sure the upsmash and utilt buffs will help your game progress. looking forward to it!
 

jet56

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
442
good stuff jet! gotta say i like your anti-air game. your use of upsmash as an anti-air is ballsy but very rewarding if it connects. i'm pretty sure the upsmash and utilt buffs will help your game progress. looking forward to it!
Thanks man! i did tone down on the Usmash and started using Utilt more often instead. i only go for a Usmash if they are in kill range, so there is no unnecessary risk involved. im still trying to polish and fully bring out this characters potential, as i still don't fully utilize all the tech that mac has to offer.
Did you just gimp Villager as Mac?
Is this real life?
Mac will find you anywhere, anytime. nowhere is safe from the Air Mac.
 

Zoramine Fae

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG5WH8qM4uY

I did a semi-thorough matchup analysis for mac vs sheik, id like to create a more in-depth video in the future. Either way its me vs Master Raven, the best sheik in our state in a $10 Bo7 MM.
I hate having to ask, especially here, but how often do you train as Little Mac, like against other players? Do you do any labbing or do you just watch videos? I'm interested in how you've managed to become so good :D
 

Solreth

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
99
I really never watch videos unless prompted / requested. Learning to play mac was a process I shared with Ryo. I really made a point not to follow others and emulate. That said its simply the way I did things and not inherently correct. Thats also not to say I never saw a technique I didnt adopt. I just didnt seek out videos of others actively. I practice about 40 hours a week. So the biggest answer Id say is, hard work and dedication. Even still im flawed and cant wait to continue to grow. Travel factors a lot, I enter at least two tournaments a week right now and always do my best to glean everything. Work hard and approach it with an open minded, positive mentality, and the cards will likely fall in place- Not that you wont suffer hardships and crisis' of faith. Apply an iron will.
 
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Zoramine Fae

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I really never watch videos unless prompted / requested. Learning to play mac was a process I shared with Ryo. I really made a point not to follow others and emulate. That said its simply the way I did things and not inherently correct. Thats also not to say I never saw a technique I didnt adopt. I just didnt seek out videos of others actively. I practice about 40 hours a week. So the biggest answer Id say is, hard work and dedication. Even still im flawed and cant wait to continue to grow. Travel factors a lot, I enter at least two tournaments a week right now and always do my best to glean everything. Work hard and approach it with an open minded, positive mentality, and the cards will likely fall in place- Not that you wont suffer hardships and crisis' of faith. Apply an iron will.
Ahaha, I love how you put down words so much.

I personally can't get out and go to tournaments often due to my age, not being able to drive, and the limited cash that I'm allowed to spend on Smash-related stuff. The best I can do is join internet tournaments that show up for 3DS or to extremely rarely pop into a local, which given my location in the Indiana/Ohio/Kentucky region and as far away from Kentucky, where many of the tournaments are located are, as possible within Indiana pretty much is impossible these days. I view videos with respect and try observing from an objective point of view on both sides how each player fights and change my playstyle slightly in order to see if how they play can be better for myself, and as such I'm attempting to figure out how to play the entire cast by watching professionals like ESAM, yourself (which really pushed me into maining Little Mac), and ZeRo. I don't plan on USING the whole cast or maining the Random button, but just getting information out of playing as them can assist you when fighting against those same characters imo.

I also can't practice 40 hours a week, that'd be too much for my poor self and probably would kill my grades. But I put in about 15-20 a week, if not a bit more, just to keep myself fresh and ready for anything. Dedication... Eh, I have enough of that currently to keep moiself going for a while.

Keep doing what you do best, fellow Mac guy :d
 

Solreth

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Joined
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Messages
99
Ahaha, I love how you put down words so much.

I personally can't get out and go to tournaments often due to my age, not being able to drive, and the limited cash that I'm allowed to spend on Smash-related stuff. The best I can do is join internet tournaments that show up for 3DS or to extremely rarely pop into a local, which given my location in the Indiana/Ohio/Kentucky region and as far away from Kentucky, where many of the tournaments are located are, as possible within Indiana pretty much is impossible these days. I view videos with respect and try observing from an objective point of view on both sides how each player fights and change my playstyle slightly in order to see if how they play can be better for myself, and as such I'm attempting to figure out how to play the entire cast by watching professionals like ESAM, yourself (which really pushed me into maining Little Mac), and ZeRo. I don't plan on USING the whole cast or maining the Random button, but just getting information out of playing as them can assist you when fighting against those same characters imo.

I also can't practice 40 hours a week, that'd be too much for my poor self and probably would kill my grades. But I put in about 15-20 a week, if not a bit more, just to keep myself fresh and ready for anything. Dedication... Eh, I have enough of that currently to keep moiself going for a while.

Keep doing what you do best, fellow Mac guy :d
Most people have more obligations and I always recommend putting life and education first. Im a bit extreme in my work. Especially given your circumstances you especially should watch videos, tutorials, and breakdowns. If you manage to save enough, ditch the 3ds variant, the controller is actually inhibitive, and I mean that. Wii U is the best way to go, controller is largely up to you. If you cant, having SOME options are way better than having NONE. Tourneys are rarely more than $10 to enter, a part-time job may be in your future. Good luck!
 

Zoramine Fae

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Most people have more obligations and I always recommend putting life and education first. Im a bit extreme in my work. Especially given your circumstances you especially should watch videos, tutorials, and breakdowns. If you manage to save enough, ditch the 3ds variant, the controller is actually inhibitive, and I mean that. Wii U is the best way to go, controller is largely up to you. If you cant, having SOME options are way better than having NONE. Tourneys are rarely more than $10 to enter, a part-time job may be in your future. Good luck!
I have the worlds best timing I swear

I'm going for a Wii U. Badly. I need the better console, but my parents seem firm set on keeping us with our current barely operatable Wii and a semi-decent Xbox 360 which we never really use anyways. And a Part Time Job IS in my future, thankfully - Summer job of working at a library! Thank god, too, because that possibly means a Wii U over the summer unless a friend of mine ditches theirs, or just more sodas for practicing.

And at the one tournament I have gone to (according to people there, the last guy I fought in pools was the #1 in my state, and another guy was #3 for Ohio. Not sure but they were sure as heck skilled) I did pretty well despite using a 3DS. But now we're going off topic, so let's just end this convo here lol
 

jet56

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
442
I really never watch videos unless prompted / requested. Learning to play mac was a process I shared with Ryo. I really made a point not to follow others and emulate. That said its simply the way I did things and not inherently correct. Thats also not to say I never saw a technique I didnt adopt. I just didnt seek out videos of others actively. I practice about 40 hours a week. So the biggest answer Id say is, hard work and dedication. Even still im flawed and cant wait to continue to grow. Travel factors a lot, I enter at least two tournaments a week right now and always do my best to glean everything. Work hard and approach it with an open minded, positive mentality, and the cards will likely fall in place- Not that you wont suffer hardships and crisis' of faith. Apply an iron will.
So, in short you develop your own style with Mac, without the observation of other macs to guide you? Interesting. i definitely agree with your point on not emulating others. I do take it though that you have watched other macs and seen their play and compared it to your own (not in terms of skill, but how they play vs how you play), especially if it was something unique or new they brought to the character? personally i find watching other macs can sometimes improve yourself, not to copy them entirely, but to help polish your own character even further. for example, i learned the importance of tech from J.A.P.A.N, the power of Air mac from StylesX2, the Defensive strength and patience from Alphicans, and the absolute fear that can be instilled from having solid reads and a character that can kill super early from you. I guess you can say i took what each player had a kind of "speciality" on, and took it into consideration. I so far have developed into a Tech heavy, combo oriented mac, with emphasis on kill setups and solid shield pressure. I feel that you have helped developed some of the greatest macs in the world, just from playing the way you do at matches. i thank you for that.
 

Solreth

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
99
So, in short you develop your own style with Mac, without the observation of other macs to guide you? Interesting. i definitely agree with your point on not emulating others. I do take it though that you have watched other macs and seen their play and compared it to your own (not in terms of skill, but how they play vs how you play), especially if it was something unique or new they brought to the character? personally i find watching other macs can sometimes improve yourself, not to copy them entirely, but to help polish your own character even further. for example, i learned the importance of tech from J.A.P.A.N, the power of Air mac from StylesX2, the Defensive strength and patience from Alphicans, and the absolute fear that can be instilled from having solid reads and a character that can kill super early from you. I guess you can say i took what each player had a kind of "speciality" on, and took it into consideration. I so far have developed into a Tech heavy, combo oriented mac, with emphasis on kill setups and solid shield pressure. I feel that you have helped developed some of the greatest macs in the world, just from playing the way you do at matches. i thank you for that.
*Nod* absolutely. I think it was a poor choice for me to avoid watching others for so long, and I dont even ultimately presume my style is "Unique" as a result, so I didnt exactly gain much besides having to work even harder than if I had just taken from others. Again, I did see little things in passing, picked up PPivots from Japan by example. Then kinda sat on em for months before committing to do anything with them. I dont really know what I am. I change face per matchup and I do my best to win. ITs an odd position to be sure. Im always honored to help others and I certainly take pride in providing results and options for Mac-Nation.
 

jet56

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
442
A little guide for mac, going to be a mini series on the character.
*Nod* absolutely. I think it was a poor choice for me to avoid watching others for so long, and I dont even ultimately presume my style is "Unique" as a result, so I didnt exactly gain much besides having to work even harder than if I had just taken from others. Again, I did see little things in passing, picked up PPivots from Japan by example. Then kinda sat on em for months before committing to do anything with them. I dont really know what I am. I change face per matchup and I do my best to win. ITs an odd position to be sure. Im always honored to help others and I certainly take pride in providing results and options for Mac-Nation.
We are honored you play this character sir. :D
 

jet56

Smash Journeyman
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Jun 7, 2015
Messages
442
Hate double posting, but really want you guys to see this.
 

Laitome

Smash Cadet
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Feb 19, 2015
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42
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Well It's been awhile since I've had tournament matches worth showing. I'll be giving a link followed by analysis in a spoiler. Feel free to add any points or criticisms of your own. All singles matches are in chronological order

Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTof0DpEvns

Lol almost forgot about this one. Guy was new so he let me pick the stages and being the nice guy I am I didn't pick FD. Although I will admit I was mostly just messing around in this one guy was technical but had no real mental game or strategy
Game 1: I take his first stock because he kept on trying to recover high which only earned him charged dsmashes. He eventually gets me on the K.O. punch recovery with the second hit of Link's fsmash. I eventually close the game by landing a dsmash on his neutral getup.

Game 2: All I can say is dem rolls man for both of us. He takes my first stock with a D-smash when I make a bad roll and I return the favor after spot-dodging a grab. After a many more rolls I tire of the shenanigans, take the momentum and eventually take the set.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgsD4pYZd10

Lol what do you want me to say? #3 in the state vs. me.

First game is a clean 2-stock by Triple R. I keep him on the edge a little bit by using my Up-B as punish whenever he combos me but he catches on eventually. After he sees me tech the rock the first time he settles for dairs instead. The fact that utilt is such a great move against Kirby is something that saved me several times in this set. However it only delays the inevitable. We have an odd interaction at the end there though I accidentally b-reverse a jump-canceled K.O. punch that would've landed then I whiffed an f-smash that clearly landed right? I mean I swear I hit him but the punch whiffed. I also find it funny that I have no idea how to b-reverse a K.O. punch but this isn't the first time I accidentally b-reversed it in a match, just my luck or maybe it's a sign that I need to get a new controller.

Second game is on duck hunt and I actually take a stock against him still he was dominant the entire match. My first stock is taken after he waits out a Gazelle counter (lol anyone got a better name please tell me) and punishing my recovery with a dair. I then take a bit of momentum keeping him off stage and reading his ledge options, land a few counters, and then he take momentum again sending me to the other side of the stage, but I take his stock after parrying a dair with an Up-B and then punishing with another dair with a proper Up-B. Triple R then immediately takes momentum back and finishes the game the end.

One thing of note here is that you see me randomly dash attacking the air in both games. I'm trying to Perfect Pivot u-tilt but I can't really practice on a regular basis so only a few of them actually came out.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkSOfKq1uZo

Foxes, I swear this match-up isn't horrible but dear god I have some sort of mental block if I choked this badly. Maybe it's just Kaz but I haven't ever beaten the guy.

I actually forgoed my usual striking strategy (dreamland, smashville) until I remembered, "wait I know this guy he LOVES T&C AND FD better switch up my strikes," so I actually striked the stages I usually want (T&C and FD) and BTW don't go to FD against Fox just don't. This time I was slightly more relaxed than I was against Triple R so I also experimented a little bit.

Game 1: At first we go fairly even trading blows and staying at a relatively even percents. Then I fail to execute a gazelle punch (too early) and miss the K.O. punch by not going for the second jab before the punch. He then takes a bit of momentum and while I landed one rapid jab, he kills me with a jab 2 -> usmash taking my first stock before I could react with an Up-B. Spawning in I start to take momentum. I try to break his shield with DA fsmashes and take his stock by poking through his shield with a dsmash. For the last stock I generally held the momentum, missed a K.O. punch that I tried to jump cancel, and landed an fsmash when he went for a grab.

Game 2: Kaz immediately takes momentum essentially dominating me all the way up to the upper 90's when I punish his dair with a d-tilt into the K.O. punch. Then he comes back in and immediately takes my stock before I can get any extra credit. We then trade blows with momentum staying even between us, but the trades end up favoring me as I get enough percent for a d-tilt into Up-B that Kaz just barely survives before killing me in one solid string, effectively demoralizing me for the last game. Now I should've countered that u-tilt or atleast try at the end as I would've had my jump even if he didn't fall for it and would have possibly survived to land one more d-tilt to end the game and get top 8 but alas instead the below happens.

Game 3: Before I begin let me say that it was a stupid decision to go to Duck Hunt, Kaz banned Lylat so I should've gone with Miiverse and that mistake costs me the tournament. For this game Kaz had all of the momentum from both the stage and the previous game as Kaz reads all of my counters in this game, and punishes all of my nair combo breakers. For the first stock he kills me with a string of uairs. Second stock he kills me early with some stellar tree chasing that actually made me drop my jaw also a perfect example as to why Mac's tech roll is absolutely horrendous. Looking at this game now I'm thinking why didn't I air-dodge at all during the first stock? why? mental break? too slow? I died too quickly for the second stock to really say anything that could've changed the outcome but seriously does anyone have an idea what was going on in my head that first stock 'cause I sure as hell don't.


Also for funsies and not for analysis here are my double's matches with one of my close friends as my partner. Feel free to criticize my doubles play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgWB0yjWJf0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oP3NgeUnhU
 
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Mr. Johan

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5,579
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If it's not too much to ask from you guys, could you take a look at my brother's Mac matches and see what all he should improve on?

https://www.twitch.tv/houseofmath/v/59025623?t=4h15m34s - Vs. a Toon Link
https://www.twitch.tv/houseofmath/v/59025623?t=3h14m12s - Vs. Robin
https://www.twitch.tv/houseofmath/v/59025623?t=4h12m15s - Vs. Mewtwo
https://www.twitch.tv/houseofmath/v/59025623?t=2h56m53s - Vs. Mario
https://www.twitch.tv/houseofmath/v/59025623?t=2h03m55s - Vs. DK/Cloud

For clarity, he has taken sets off the Robin and the Toon Link before.

Thanks!
 
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jet56

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
442
If it's not too much to ask from you guys, could you take a look at my brother's Mac matches and see what all he should improve on?

https://www.twitch.tv/houseofmath/v/59025623?t=4h15m34s - Vs. a Toon Link
https://www.twitch.tv/houseofmath/v/59025623?t=3h14m12s - Vs. Robin
https://www.twitch.tv/houseofmath/v/59025623?t=4h12m15s - Vs. Mewtwo
https://www.twitch.tv/houseofmath/v/59025623?t=2h56m53s - Vs. Mario
https://www.twitch.tv/houseofmath/v/59025623?t=2h03m55s - Vs. DK/Cloud

For clarity, he has taken sets off the Robin and the Toon Link before.

Thanks!
Alright, im gonna give general advice over what he should do with each mu. This way he improves his little mac as a whole, rather than focusing too much on niche things with each mu. Once his gameplay has improved and been polished a lot more, then he can start worrying about mu specific things more often.

Things he can implement right away:

1. Walking over running. Little mac has one of the fastest walks in the game, and gives him access to his shield at all times, allowing him to shield an incoming attack or projectile (for example, he could walk up to toon link, powershield his boomerang or bomb, then drop shield ftilt.) This will let you punish things much more effectively, and not run into hitboxes or projectiles thrown out, which happened often in his sets.

2. Change your attacks used in neutral. Too often you would be throwing out a smash attack, or an ftilt. I hardly saw use of his jab or dtilt, and almost no use for his utilt. His entire tilt arsenal is amazingly good, and sets up into some ridiculous stuff (dtilt to jab/ftilt/side b/fsmash/utilt at low percents.) It will take a little time to learn how stuff connects and what is the best and most optimal combo for each hit confirm, but it will pay off.
http://smashboards.com/threads/little-mac-combo-thread.424569/ little combo thread to get you started.

Things that will take him to the next level:

3. Advanced tech: Perfect pivots and extended dash dancing is beyond crucial for little mac. He can combine them and act out of it with literally ANYTHING he wants (smashes, tilts, grab, pivot grab, jab, etc.) Jump canceling is also a extreme importance, as they give him access to his bread and butter kill combo Dtilt> jump canceled up B (which is a true combo). There is also ledge trumping, roll boosted grabs, momentum pivot (more commonly known as quick step) and much more. This might take weeks to put in, but will boost your game tremendously.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tkx30b2j6ZU example of mac implementing tech. I would also check out J.A.P.A.N, man is a tech Jesus with mac.

Perfect pivots: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vaR4RM-qr0
dash dancing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azRrqKUJ-5o
4. Mac styles: This will Definitely take some time. Understand i am not saying your brother shouldn't develop his own style, he very well should. It is a good idea to know how to play mac in different aspects.
Senpai: Combo heavy, tech oriented mac, emphasis on pressure and kill/ kill setups. (last shameless plugin, i promise :p)
Alphicans: Defensive, Punish heavy mac. emphasis on exploiting player/player habits and reads.
Sol: Best little mac in the world. just...just watch him i can't describe how he plays. Dude just beats the sh** out of people.
J.A.P.A.N: tech oriented, Defensive mac. emphasis on baits and reads.

There are many others, but this is just to show you how different macs have different ways of playing the same character and that mac can be played optimally in different ways. What makes you a really solid mac, is if you can change your style set to set to fit the mu or player, or sometimes in the middle of a game, as a mindgame or if your previous strategy isn't working.
Example: im not going to be all aggro or tech happy against a peach, but rather defensive and punish oriented. And im not going to play defensive against a robin, but rather pressure heavy and aggro.

There is more i can go into, but this is just to get started. Hope this helps, and let me know if you have any other questions or thoughts!

P.S. Also send your brother my regards, and that i wish him luck. Also, let me know how he's progressing, cause i love seeing little macs improve.
 
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Aeons_Ahead

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 20, 2016
Messages
12
This is a highlight-vid of sorts showing my DI and survivability with Little Mac in my matches against Koolaid and Marss. That THAT people who say Mac dies at 20%.

 
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