-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Ice Climbers Infinite In PM
- Thread starter Tags
- Start date
jtm94
Smash Lord
I like that a lot.
Chibi-Chan
Smash Journeyman
Works on every char? Not just on Fast-Fallers like that Fox?
RedHairedGent
Smash Rookie
Wobbling 2.0 here we come
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
This could have all been avoided by having her U-throw every time without screwing with D-throw's release point.
JB IV
Smash Cadet
And ruin pretty much all of ICs grab game? No thanks.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
**** you and **** this mentality. Ice Climbers grab game would only improve with a better release point on d-throw and the game would only improve with the removal of handoff infinites.
GeZ
Smash Lord
I agree with this. Infinites don't expand a characters meta, they just focus the whole thing on that one stupid cheese factor. On the bright side the PM:BR will have this gone by 3.1 and the bad players who idolize infinites can go back to not having dumb tech to lean on.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
guys, I just want my melee infinites back.
I really approve of this grab combo though <3
I really approve of this grab combo though <3
What a mature way to comment on someones "opinion".
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
I'm not sure how I feel about that post since you included sarcasm along side scare quotes around the word 'opinion.' I elaborated more on my views than JB IV remotely did.
GeZ
Smash Lord
I think the quotes may have been unintentional, or somehow trying to relay sarcasm? Whatever the intention, they're misplaced for what he's trying to relay.
| Big D |
Smash Master
I'm not understanding why people are getting so upset. The infinite is situational and I seriously doubt the people in this thread complaining have had this happen to them or have seen it applied in a match. I'm also willing to bet they wouldn't be able to execute the infinite at all. Going for the infinite is a risk due to how easy it is to screw up where as you could have gotten a lot of damage + edgeguard opportunity otherwise.
I'd personally like to see some sort of statement from a member of the PMBR regarding their views on this.
I'd personally like to see some sort of statement from a member of the PMBR regarding their views on this.
GeZ
Smash Lord
The PMBR has removed anything like this from the game based on the principle of things of this nature detracting from a character. No matter the drawbacks or risks, I think they'll stand against it due to it's similarity to wobbles/ brawl chains, as they made sure those tech's were not included. I don't understand why people are so expectant for this to go unchanged, or say **** like "it's wobbles 2.0". It doesn't merit special treatment just because it's the P:M brand IC Cheese Wiz.
QWA
Smash Apprentice
People are just fine with gimps that kill at low percent, but everyone freaks out when the Ice Climbers chain grab somebody from low percent to death. I don't even play Ice Climbers and I think that double standard is silly.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Getting gimped isn't really comparable to literal 0-deaths once something's started. People are not against gimps because there is an evident and calculated risk involved in going for them, compared to the nonexistent risk of "Should I continue this infinite or not?"
I'm not even against handoffs as much as I'm against D-throw's release point being changed. If it was, in fact, changed to prevent handoffs, there are ways to go about it that don't so drastically screw with their D-throw Dair links.
I'm not even against handoffs as much as I'm against D-throw's release point being changed. If it was, in fact, changed to prevent handoffs, there are ways to go about it that don't so drastically screw with their D-throw Dair links.
Nice find.
I'm not complaining about this. For all of the ice climbers' design flaws in melee, being fundamentally based around having unambiguously the strongest punish game in the entire meta was something I respected. I've never, ever, ever played ice climbers myself (probably never will, controlling two characters is far too much for my tiny simian brain to process) and I've definitely lost to them but I don't find this objectionable. And I do think there's room for that in this game, especially when it's as heavily situational as this particular infinite is.
Yeah, it sucks to lose input over what happens to you in a game where you have control 100% of the time otherwise but that's why you don't get grabbed.
I'm not complaining about this. For all of the ice climbers' design flaws in melee, being fundamentally based around having unambiguously the strongest punish game in the entire meta was something I respected. I've never, ever, ever played ice climbers myself (probably never will, controlling two characters is far too much for my tiny simian brain to process) and I've definitely lost to them but I don't find this objectionable. And I do think there's room for that in this game, especially when it's as heavily situational as this particular infinite is.
Yeah, it sucks to lose input over what happens to you in a game where you have control 100% of the time otherwise but that's why you don't get grabbed.
QWA
Smash Apprentice
You make it sound like Ice Climbers get grabs next to the ledge for free, and that gimps are these nearly impossible things to pull off.
cmart
Smash Lord
Calm down, Kink. You're making things up and extrapolating from assumptions. Dthrow's release was intended to be close to Melee's and the fact that it's not is a mistake we're working to rectify.
JB IV
Smash Cadet
Don't hate me, but I main ICs on Brawl and I actually like how ICs forces people to play differently (opinion). It adds to the meta.
I agree that the release point of d-throw should be changed. I meant that I don't think that Nana should always buffer an u-throw.
And M2K's u-throws 0-death everyone. It's nothing new.
I agree that the release point of d-throw should be changed. I meant that I don't think that Nana should always buffer an u-throw.
And M2K's u-throws 0-death everyone. It's nothing new.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
I'm not saying it out of anger. It seemed like D-throw's release point, from an outside perspective, was changed to eliminate handoffs. It's a justifiable look at the change, even though it was unintentional.
I'm just glad I got an actual reason for the change provided. I really don't mean to nitpick or complain, so I appreciate it greatly when the PMBR is a little more open about providing info on why changes are made, intentional or not. Thanks for letting me know.
GeZ
Smash Lord
Which means that the infinite won't be their anymore?
cmart
Smash Lord
I was referring to the release point itself. While I have nothing against this particular infinite, we won't be taking any special measures to preserve it if the release point changes make it impossible.
Iceman
Smash Apprentice
That is fair. I feel like if people find a way to infinite after the grab release changes, then it should be fine. Does the PMBR have an official stance on PM original infinites?
Shadic
Alakadoof?
It wasn't a "change" that we made - I'm pretty sure it was just Brawl's release point.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
(=3 (=3 (=3
I just want a viable infinite to exist.
This topic escalated to a point that is just silly.
Pretty much no matter what, the nature of the ICs should give them an infinite, and that's really not a game breaking feature considering that they still have clearly exploitable weaknesses.
I just want a viable infinite to exist.
This topic escalated to a point that is just silly.
Pretty much no matter what, the nature of the ICs should give them an infinite, and that's really not a game breaking feature considering that they still have clearly exploitable weaknesses.
cmart
Smash Lord
Not yet. This is the first one to crop up, and I think we'll probably end up looking at them on a case-by-case basis.
| Big D |
Smash Master
Has anyone else tried it yet?
I've been trying it in training and find Nana frequently refusing to insta-throw for some reason. Not sure what's causing it but I remember hearing that she's not meant to pause and do nothing.
On the few occasions she has properly b-throwed I've managed the regrab a couple of times but haven't gotten much further, not sure if it's because it's hard to do or I'm bad (although I'm certainly bad in any case).
On the few occasions she has properly b-throwed I've managed the regrab a couple of times but haven't gotten much further, not sure if it's because it's hard to do or I'm bad (although I'm certainly bad in any case).
| Big D |
Smash Master
Nequ, maybe try practicing on a larger target like Yoshi or Charizard where the regrab window is larger. I'd actually recommend doing that for anyone who is trying to learn this.The lighter the character the tighter the window is for the regrab.
Twan, maybe you're not standing close enough to the ledge? I've seen Nana just stand there on occasion when the climbers are really far apart, maybe try and grab with Nana a little bit closer to Popo. Don't worry if you're not getting it at first, it's not because you're bad it's just difficult, especially if you aren't used to ICs infinites.
Twan, maybe you're not standing close enough to the ledge? I've seen Nana just stand there on occasion when the climbers are really far apart, maybe try and grab with Nana a little bit closer to Popo. Don't worry if you're not getting it at first, it's not because you're bad it's just difficult, especially if you aren't used to ICs infinites.
GeZ
Smash Lord
Well I'm officially in love with this damn duo. My question now is why would players be fixated on IC infinites when their is so much more to these characters. The desync mechanic is one of the coolest, most deep tools in this whole series, and to see it focused on less because of infinite grabs is a bit disheartening.
JB IV
Smash Cadet
I've been able to do it on the 6 characters that I tried it on but I'm struggling at manually spacing Nana on heavy characters.
In regards to the IC infinites, Wobbling in Melee and Handoff's in Brawl has one things in common. You can do it anywhere on stage, as opposed to this particular infinite which is strictly situational towards the LEDGE/EDGE. At any point IC's are near the ledge their in a serious risk because, once separated, it's as easy as gimping a lv3 cpu, whether it's you or Nana. (Probably an exaggeration but you get the point)
Imo, I think this infinite should be kept.
If the player chooses to take the risk, and succeeds in doing so. I don't see why anyone should complain since a number of factors to make this infinite succeed is... Pretty difficult, unlike Wobbling or Handoffs. And by the looks of that video, every throw that nana does she inches closer to popo so it's not considered a "perfect infinite"
This is just my opinion and if anyone disagrees PLEASE tell me since I want a way to solve a problem like this.
(If the PMBR decides to remove this then I don't have any problems with it whatsoever, as it's them who decides what makes the game as balanced as possible. Thanks for all your hard work!)
Imo, I think this infinite should be kept.
If the player chooses to take the risk, and succeeds in doing so. I don't see why anyone should complain since a number of factors to make this infinite succeed is... Pretty difficult, unlike Wobbling or Handoffs. And by the looks of that video, every throw that nana does she inches closer to popo so it's not considered a "perfect infinite"
This is just my opinion and if anyone disagrees PLEASE tell me since I want a way to solve a problem like this.
(If the PMBR decides to remove this then I don't have any problems with it whatsoever, as it's them who decides what makes the game as balanced as possible. Thanks for all your hard work!)
Last edited:
JB IV
Smash Cadet
Difficulty should almost never be a factor. Japan-I mean a dedicated player always finds a way. You have to manually control the spacing so you could technically do it forever. ICs get out-camped by pretty much anyone with a projectile or on a stage with platforms. Camping, especially near the ledge, would be disadvantageous for ICs.
It's not all that situational to be near the ledge. You could Handoff, tech-chase (d-throw works nicely), combo, ect. them to the ledge and (running) grab/pivot-grab them. My favorite is using ICs superior edge-hogging ability to force the opponent to recover on stage (or. You just wave-land and get free grabs on Shiek, Marth, etc. while you're already facing away from the ledge.
Brawl ICs can't really combo into a grab (very few exceptions) and have such bad range and startup on their grab that many characters have safe moves that make it impossible for them to be grabbed. Brawl ICs are lame in that they're so bad that they shouldn't be able to beat you but they do anyway. I think that Brawl ICs are fair because their infinite is not guaranteed, but in PM...
All it takes is a couple of guaranteed grab/pivot-grab setups and ICs become broken.
DarkStarStorm
Smash Ace
What Nana and Popo are are the King and Queen of Chaingrabs, to take that away is to take away the appeal of the character.
What needs to be done is PM brings ICs chaingrabs back, (Wobbling included) but make them so that their soul and sole purpose doesn't HAVE to be to get the grab. Look at Zelda, you can run a trap based Zelda, or a Farore's Wind based Zelda, or go in between. That is how I believe they should do it.
DarkStarStorm
Smash Ace
But for the sake of making the game of Brawl similar to Melee, will you bring back the wobble if people want it badly enough?
GeZ
Smash Lord
That doesn't work. Something that can kill a character from 0% will never take the backseat to anything else. There's no reason for it to not be the dominant strategy. Plus, infinites are so cheesy and non interactive. I mean, a lot of characters can zero to death other characters, but the opponent is participating with DI, OoS options, and all other parts of the defensive meta. Any form of infinite on the other hand is just flexing your inputs while the opponent sits, marveling at your ability along with your asshatery.