I Will Believe In Myself: Miles "Tails" Prower Support Thread

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Sure they could, I'm just telling you he would make less sense as an echo since that's what your question was about, not if he could or couldn't be.
Metal Sonic can be an echo of Sonic. But I still think Shadow would make a better addition than Metal Sonic.

Same here. Joker and Bayonetta ain't my cup of tea and I would honestly prefer another Sonic character over them.
Joker/Ren was a horrible heartbreaker for me!

In fact, Sakurai said he was even more popular than them.
Do you think we are going to have Alucard as a 3rd Castlevania rep before we get a 2nd Sonic rep in Smash 6?
 
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Ken showed us there's kinda a precedent set for semi levels of clone in a second representative for a third party. Though in terms of echos that are semi-clones like him, Tails can't fit, Shadow would be a polarising choice, and anybody else wouldn't be seen as big and appropriate a choice to get that elusive second spot, Metal Sonic included?

Maybe if there's a echo/clone/non-new franchises pass and they don't mind simultaneously selling the Tails Mii costume, they could finally give Sonic some kind of second rep too out of sheer fan demand, but that's a lot of ifs to consider.
 

SonicMario

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Of course it's fair for Sonic to have more reps. Since he's the most iconic 3rd party playable character as of now.
Er, I love that Sonic is in Smash and all. But I think we should take a step back and not praise him to that level. Even as a huge Sonic fan who's favorite inclusion will always be him unless Tails does find his way in at some point. I don't think he's the #1 Iconic 3rd party ever to make Smash. I think characters like Megaman and Pac-Man certainly have a legacy of their own that's much older that could make them above Sonic. And maybe in some ways Banjo as well given he was pretty much a Nintendo character up until Rare was bought by Microsoft. I'd say Sonic is still above most of the others, but I think it's wrong to say Sonic should get another character because he's supposedly the most iconic.

He's one of the most popular and the only one to be in Smash for the entire time 3rd parties started to get in Smash. But we shouldn't put Sonic that high on a pedestal, that's bound to get more laughs out of the general Smash community then anything else.
 

fogbadge

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Er, I love that Sonic is in Smash and all. But I think we should take a step back and not praise him to that level. Even as a huge Sonic fan who's favorite inclusion will always be him unless Tails does find his way in at some point. I don't think he's the #1 Iconic 3rd party ever to make Smash. I think characters like Megaman and Pac-Man certainly have a legacy of their own that's much older that could make them above Sonic. And maybe in some ways Banjo as well given he was pretty much a Nintendo character up until Rare was bought by Microsoft. I'd say Sonic is still above most of the others, but I think it's wrong to say Sonic should get another character because he's supposedly the most iconic.

He's one of the most popular and the only one to be in Smash for the entire time 3rd parties started to get in Smash. But we shouldn't put Sonic that high on a pedestal, that's bound to get more laughs out of the general Smash community then anything else.
id say pacman probably is and he and megaman are on the same level, but thats just how i see em
 

SonicMario

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Banjo and Mega Man aren't on Sonic's Level. Sonic is most iconic 3rd party after Pac-Man, with the Street Fighter Boys behind them i say
I mean on terms of being more Nintendo-centric 3rd Parties. Banjo was pretty much considered one of Nintendo's IPs even if it turned out the rights were mostly owned by Rare unlike how Nintendo still generally had Donkey Kong (Heck wasn't there a report that a Microsoft person thought that buying Rare took Donkey Kong away from Nintendo?). And as for Megaman, a good majority of the Classic games were Nintendo Exclusives when they first came out. So while Megaman wasn't as much of considered Nintendo IP as Banjo was Mega Man was still a huge supplement franchise especially on the NES.

Sega and by extension Sonic has a long and big list of history with being on Nintendo systems since Sonic Adventure 2 Battle came out. But how long ago or how early on a character was part of the Nintendo family should be put into consideration in some ways I think. Though there are some exceptions on this front. Snake and Ryu each debuted on Nintendo systems but the franchises in terms of new main releases seem to have drifted away from Nintendo consoles. (Heck, there was apparently Street Fighter games put on the Dreamcast rather then the N64)

I'm not saying like because Pac-Man, Mega Man, and/or Banjo-Kazooie have more history and/or their origins are better tied with Nintendo that they should have another character in Smash before Sonic. I'd like Tails to make it because he himself is a character that's iconic to video games as one of the few sidekicks to hit Luigi's notability. It has nothing to do with Sonic supposedly being the most iconic 3rd party franchise in Smash. Which I think even as Sonic fans ourselves we should push back on that being the reason we'd like more characters. Because there's certainly a few cases arguable enough where that is wrong.
 

fogbadge

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I mean on terms of being more Nintendo-centric 3rd Parties. Banjo was pretty much considered one of Nintendo's IPs even if it turned out the rights were mostly owned by Rare unlike how Nintendo still generally had Donkey Kong (Heck wasn't there a report that a Microsoft person thought that buying Rare took Donkey Kong away from Nintendo?). And as for Megaman, a good majority of the Classic games were Nintendo Exclusives when they first came out. So while Megaman wasn't as much of considered Nintendo IP as Banjo was Mega Man was still a huge supplement franchise especially on the NES.
they were one of nintendo's IPs nothing to consider, rare a nintendo shared the rights in much the same way nintendo and game freak share pokemon, when they went their separate ways nintendo kept the rights to all the characters they created while rare did the same

b&k are our first 3rd party characters to have formally been nintendo characters
 
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So here's the evolution of 3rd party playable character rules. Break the rule for once and it opens the floodgates for all.

You can only have one rep per company. Then add Ryu. The rule is removed.

You need to have a significant history with Nintnedo. Then add Cloud. The rule is removed.

You need to have a complete series. Then add Bayonetta. The rule is removed.

You can only have one rep per franchise. Then add Richter. The rule is removed.

You need to be significantly iconic. Then add Joker/Ren. The rule is removed.

Since Richter opened the pandora's box. I think Tails is allowed to be playable, and he needs to. But if we get Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, and Eggman. We might end up getting Zero, X, Chun-li, Guile, Mrs. Pac Man, Alucard etc.

But wait, do you think Non primary 3rd party reps are allowed now? Or do you think Sakurai is having Richter and Ken as exceptions.
 
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So here's the evolution of 3rd party playable character rules. Break the rule for once and it opens the floodgates for all.

You can only have one rep per company. Then add Ryu. The rule is removed.

You need to have a significant history with Nintnedo. Then add Cloud. The rule is removed.

You need to have a complete series. Then add Bayonetta. The rule is removed.

You can only have one rep per franchise. Then add Richter. The rule is removed.

You need to be significantly iconic. Then add Joker/Ren. The rule is removed.

Since Richter opened the pandora's box. I think Tails is allowed to be playable, and he needs to. But if we get Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, and Eggman. We might end up getting Zero, X, Chun-li, Guile, Mrs. Pac Man, Alucard etc.

But wait, do you think Non primary 3rd party reps are allowed now? Or do you think Sakurai is having Richter and Ken as exceptions.
But why would we get like 4 new characters? Seems a bit much.
 

SonicMario

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So here's the evolution of 3rd party playable character rules. Break the rule for once and it opens the floodgates for all.

You can only have one rep per company. Then add Ryu. The rule is removed.

You need to have a significant history with Nintnedo. Then add Cloud. The rule is removed.

You need to have a complete series. Then add Bayonetta. The rule is removed.

You can only have one rep per franchise. Then add Richter. The rule is removed.

You need to be significantly iconic. Then add Joker/Ren. The rule is removed.

Since Richter opened the pandora's box. I think Tails is allowed to be playable, and he needs to. But if we get Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, and Eggman. We might end up getting Zero, X, Chun-li, Guile, Mrs. Pac Man, Alucard etc.

But wait, do you think Non primary 3rd party reps are allowed now? Or do you think Sakurai is having Richter and Ken as exceptions.
There's a caveat that because Richter and Ken were echoes that the "rule" essentially became that 3rd party franchises could only get echoes as 2nd characters. If that's ever broken then Tails stands a great chance. But we also have to remind ourselves that a part of the reason we got Richter and Ken was some degree of favoritism on Sakurai's part.

The reason why Sonic deserves to have like 4 or 5 reps is because Sonic is the most iconic 3rd party franchise.
No, stop. Didn't you see what I said earlier?

I'm not saying like because Pac-Man, Mega Man, and/or Banjo-Kazooie have more history and/or their origins are better tied with Nintendo that they should have another character in Smash before Sonic. I'd like Tails to make it because he himself is a character that's iconic to video games as one of the few sidekicks to hit Luigi's notability. It has nothing to do with Sonic supposedly being the most iconic 3rd party franchise in Smash. Which I think even as Sonic fans ourselves we should push back on that being the reason we'd like more characters. Because there's certainly a few cases arguable enough where that is wrong.
Sonic's certainly one of the most popular in Smash and certainly at least still in the top half of 3rd party franchises included. But to say the franchise is the de facto #1 most iconic 3rd party in Smash. Is going to get more ridicule then anything else.
 
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fogbadge

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So here's the evolution of 3rd party playable character rules. Break the rule for once and it opens the floodgates for all.

You can only have one rep per company. Then add Ryu. The rule is removed.

You need to have a significant history with Nintnedo. Then add Cloud. The rule is removed.

You need to have a complete series. Then add Bayonetta. The rule is removed.

You can only have one rep per franchise. Then add Richter. The rule is removed.

You need to be significantly iconic. Then add Joker/Ren. The rule is removed.

Since Richter opened the pandora's box. I think Tails is allowed to be playable, and he needs to. But if we get Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, and Eggman. We might end up getting Zero, X, Chun-li, Guile, Mrs. Pac Man, Alucard etc.

But wait, do you think Non primary 3rd party reps are allowed now? Or do you think Sakurai is having Richter and Ken as exceptions.
ah but the thing is, those rules are purely in the minds of the fans, sakurai had never said such things, so proving or disproving them doesnt really mean anything
 
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There's a caveat that because Richter and Ken were echoes that the "rule" essentially became that 3rd party franchises could only get echoes as 2nd characters. If that's ever broken then Tails stands a great chance. But we also have to remind ourselves that a part of the reason we got Richter and Ken was some degree of favoritism on Sakurai's part.
So if Sakurai's favoritism is a factor, do you think Sakurai is really going to make Richter and Ken as exceptions? Well a red flag that contradicts this is that Alucard was originally going to be playable before being replaced by Simon, and he got relegated to an assist trophy. But however, there could be a high chance of Alucard being promoted to playable in Smash 6. And (assuming Simon is still playable in Smash 6), Alucard would be a fighter made from Scratch. Another red flag is that Ken is semi-clone instead of a full-clone, and he shouldn't be classified as an echo. So Tails can still be playable, not as an echo, but a semi-clone/pseudo-clone of Sonic.

Also, I've already mentioned that Sakurai giving a less iconic 3rd party franchise a 2nd rep without giving a more iconic franchise a 2nd rep is an excuse to me.

An analogy is that if Usagi/Sailor Moon was added a 3rd party playable character in a Shonen Jump game, but Mrs. Momomiya (Tokyo Mew Mew) (another 3rd party character) was also added, but her series/franchise got a 2nd rep, but Usagi/Sailor Moon's series/franchise didn't despite Usagi/Sailor Moon being more iconic, it wouldn't be a great idea in my opinion. And if the creators did it because of favoritism, I would take it as an excuse. Same thing occours with Richter and Ken. Having a 3rd party 2nd rep from a less iconic franchise without a more iconic franchise having a 2nd rep generally doesn't make sense.
 
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fogbadge

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So if Sakurai's favoritism is a factor, do you think Sakurai is really going to make Richter and Ken as exceptions? Well a red flag that contradicts this is that Alucard was originally going to be playable before being replaced by Simon, and he got relegated to an assist trophy. But however, there could be a high chance of Alucard being promoted to playable in Smash 6. And (assuming Simon is still playable in Smash 6), Alucard would be a fighter made from Scratch. Another red flag is that Ken is semi-clone instead of a full-clone, and he shouldn't be classified as an echo. So Tails can still be playable, not as an echo, but a semi-clone/pseudo-clone of Sonic.

Also, I've already mentioned that Sakurai giving a less iconic 3rd party franchise a 2nd rep without giving a more iconic franchise a 2nd rep is an excuse to me.

An analogy is that if Usagi/Sailor Moon was added a 3rd party playable character in a Shonen Jump game, but Mrs. Momomiya (Tokyo Mew Mew) (another 3rd party character) was also added, but her series/franchise got a 2nd rep, but Usagi/Sailor Moon's series/franchise didn't despite Usagi/Sailor Moon being more iconic, it wouldn't be a great idea in my opinion. And if the creators did it because of favoritism, I would take it as an excuse. Same thing occours with Richter and Ken. Having a 3rd party 2nd rep from a less iconic franchise without a more iconic franchise having a 2nd rep generally doesn't make sense.
heres the thing though, getting one character in doesnt necessarily affect another characters chances at all
 
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heres the thing though, getting one character in doesnt necessarily affect another characters chances at all
I know that already, but I wasn't saying that we can't have Tails because we have another character. I was just saying that giving a less iconic 3rd party franchise a 2nd rep, but leaving a more iconic 3rd party franchise without a 2nd rep isn't a good idea in my opinion, regardless of the order of things.
 

fogbadge

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I know that already, but I wasn't saying that we can't have Tails because we have another character. I was just saying that giving a less iconic 3rd party franchise a 2nd rep, but leaving a more iconic 3rd party franchise without a 2nd rep isn't a good idea in my opinion, regardless of the order of things.
well unfortunately thats just something we as fans have to accept, certain characters getting in over others may not seem fair but its just the way things are
 

7NATOR

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Hey Guys, I have a Proposition for you

Just for fun, but i thought about how the Sonic Fanbase for Smash has a Hard time deciding which Sonic Character should get in...usually it's between Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, and Eggman. Add in Metal Sonic, Amy, and maybe Silver as Wildcard picks

My Proposition is that all Sonic Fans, including you guys, should have a Moveset Competition Strictly for Sonic Characters. So we can see which Sonic Rep would have Best Moveset and Stuff. I'll Join in too. I'll be on the Shadowside
 

fogbadge

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Hey Guys, I have a Proposition for you

Just for fun, but i thought about how the Sonic Fanbase for Smash has a Hard time deciding which Sonic Character should get in...usually it's between Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, and Eggman. Add in Metal Sonic, Amy, and maybe Silver as Wildcard picks

My Proposition is that all Sonic Fans, including you guys, should have a Moveset Competition Strictly for Sonic Characters. So we can see which Sonic Rep would have Best Moveset and Stuff. I'll Join in too. I'll be on the Shadowside
What would that prove though? How good a move set is, is entirely subjective. Wouldn’t it be just as well to have a popularity contest?
 

SonicMario

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Hey Guys, I have a Proposition for you

Just for fun, but i thought about how the Sonic Fanbase for Smash has a Hard time deciding which Sonic Character should get in...usually it's between Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, and Eggman. Add in Metal Sonic, Amy, and maybe Silver as Wildcard picks

My Proposition is that all Sonic Fans, including you guys, should have a Moveset Competition Strictly for Sonic Characters. So we can see which Sonic Rep would have Best Moveset and Stuff. I'll Join in too. I'll be on the Shadowside
That sounds more like something that will just divide the Sonic Smash fanbase more so then we are already are between those 4. A competition is just going to promote the same arguments that we already have going at eachother at times.

You have to unite fans in order to bring something substantial. Though even when the next Smash comes I have a hard time thinking the franchise will get more then 3 characters. Which means some characters will have to be left out still. I think Tails & Shadow would be the best combination as much as it'd suck for Knuckles and/or Eggman fans. (Presumably in this scenario Knuckles would be an Assist again, and Eggman would be a boss)

It's just that uniting Sonic fans is a hard thing to do. Even if we tried going full scale on a Tails & Shadow in Smash future. You'd have protesting Knuckles and/or Eggman fans. Or classic fans that hate Shadow. Or Shadow fans that perceive Tails as "too weak/cowardly" (Especially when bringing up Sonic Forces ignoring the fact Tails has been in the thick of the action including in Shadow's debut game where Tails shoots up military bases with a mech to get Sonic out of prison and what not)
 

7NATOR

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What would that prove though? How good a move set is, is entirely subjective. Wouldn’t it be just as well to have a popularity contest?

That sounds more like something that will just divide the Sonic Smash fanbase more so then we are already are between those 4. A competition is just going to promote the same arguments that we already have going at eachother at times.

You have to unite fans in order to bring something substantial. Though even when the next Smash comes I have a hard time thinking the franchise will get more then 3 characters. Which means some characters will have to be left out still. I think Tails & Shadow would be the best combination as much as it'd suck for Knuckles and/or Eggman fans. (Presumably in this scenario Knuckles would be an Assist again, and Eggman would be a boss)

It's just that uniting Sonic fans is a hard thing to do. Even if we tried going full scale on a Tails & Shadow in Smash future. You'd have protesting Knuckles and/or Eggman fans. Or classic fans that hate Shadow. Or Shadow fans that perceive Tails as "too weak/cowardly" (Especially when bringing up Sonic Forces ignoring the fact Tails has been in the thick of the action including in Shadow's debut game where Tails shoots up military bases with a mech to get Sonic out of prison and what not)
Both of you do bring up Valid Points not gonna lie.

Yeah there would probably be problems with the contest, and Sonic Fanbase would probably still be divided...in any case though i was bored so i brought up idea. I want to see Sonic fans make great Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Eggman, etc fan movesets. I want to see how fans get creative with the movesets and junk

I mean if we can't unite the Sonic fanbase to Rally Behind one, or even just TWO character (Because that would probably never happen), We could at least unite them for competition...there will be arguments, there will be battle, hopefully there will be fun in the end though
 

fogbadge

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Both of you do bring up Valid Points not gonna lie.

Yeah there would probably be problems with the contest, and Sonic Fanbase would probably still be divided...in any case though i was bored so i brought up idea. I want to see Sonic fans make great Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Eggman, etc fan movesets. I want to see how fans get creative with the movesets and junk

I mean if we can't unite the Sonic fanbase to Rally Behind one, or even just TWO character (Because that would probably never happen), We could at least unite them for competition...there will be arguments, there will be battle, hopefully there will be fun in the end though
sure, wed just have to hope it doesnt go sideways
 

volbound1700

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I don't think there really is in any rules. Despite that, I don't see Sonic getting another character unless it as a Shadow echo. In Sakurai's mind, the Mii Costumes for Knuckles and Tails likely represent both characters. (I admit the move-sets work, I just wish aesthetically the Tails costume could be changed. It would also be neat if you could have customizable victory themes so you can give them the Sonic series theme).
 
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To be honest, there isn't really going to be a away to unite fans very well since it'd boil down to having people support characters they either don't care about or don't want just for the sake of having a second character from the series. In all honesty, if it boiled down to supporting Shadow or Sonic remaining alone, I rather keep Sonic by his lonesome and hope for a chance to get a better character like Tails or Eggman in the next game. I'm certain there are others whole feel similarly about the characters they do want vs the ones they don't, expecting people to compromise just to arbitrarily boost "representation" isn't going to work.
 

7NATOR

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That's True...Uniting the Fans is honestly impossible

Like For me Personally, I Specifically Want Shadow in the game, it's not like i don't Find Tails, Knuckles, Silver Cool, is that I don't Personally want them in like i want Shadow in. I'll be cool with them, but yeah

And i guess it's the same for alot of fans of other fanbases. Like i Assume most, if not all of you here Prefer Tails to be the Sonic Rep...I guess what i meant was that for most fanbases there's always a Clear majority support for one character.

Kirby has Bandanna Dee, Star Fox has Krystal, DK had K.Rool, Metroid had Ridley.

Like Mario has both Waluigi and Geno has the popular reps, but Geno is usually looked as his own thing due to him being 3rd party

Sonic Fanbase, it's unclear who most popular, best choice is you know. the only other fanbases that i know of that has this problem is Legend of Zelda, with Skull Kid and Midna, and i guess Fire Emblem too. Pokemon has this problem on virtue of hundreds of candidates being possible

I Don't Know
 
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It's pretty messy, there really isn't a real frontrunner for the series. It doesn't help that Sonic does have several standout characters who can be seen as both a good or bad candidate when you look at their own merits. For every character's positive traits, someone can counter it with another character.

Tails is the defacto sidekick and the character who most often appears alongside Sonic, but Eggman is the main antagonist and has made pretty much as many appearance in the series as Sonic himself, but Shadow is the popular one and the face of the newer stuff, and so on and so forth.
 

7NATOR

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It's pretty messy, there really isn't a real frontrunner for the series. It doesn't help that Sonic does have several standout characters who can be seen as both a good or bad candidate when you look at their own merits. For every character's positive traits, someone can counter it with another character.

Tails is the defacto sidekick and the character who most often appears alongside Sonic, but Eggman is the main antagonist and has made pretty much as many appearance in the series as Sonic himself, but Shadow is the popular one and the face of the newer stuff, and so on and so forth.
And then Knuckles is caught in the Awkward Middle where he's neither the most important Sidekick like Tails is, the Main Villain of the Franchise like Eggman is, or the More Popular Rival breakout Character like Shadow is...I guess he's the most meme worthy Character, but i don't think Memes get you into Smash though
 
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True. Knuckles lands in that place where most people will look at him and think, "Not before Tails/Eggman/Shadow." The same could be said for Amy, who's the only other "main" Sonic character, just behind Knux.
 

fogbadge

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I don't think there really is in any rules. Despite that, I don't see Sonic getting another character unless it as a Shadow echo. In Sakurai's mind, the Mii Costumes for Knuckles and Tails likely represent both characters. (I admit the move-sets work, I just wish aesthetically the Tails costume could be changed. It would also be neat if you could have customizable victory themes so you can give them the Sonic series theme).
i dont think any of us really have an idea of whats going on in sakurai's head
 

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Knuckles support I find is generally "He's the one built most for fighting" since his whole thing is he has these spiked gloves he punches with. And maybe also how Sonic 3&K is generally considered the best Sonic game of all time by most and that was Knuckles' debut.

The fact he was also going to be in Project M probably also gave him some support.
 
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Yeah, that seems to be the main argument for him, but it seems to have dissipated considerably over time. Especially since characters like :ultwiifittrainer: and :ultisabelle: pretty much shattered the whole being able to fight argument.
 

SonicMario

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Yeah, that seems to be the main argument for him, but it seems to have dissipated considerably over time. Especially since characters like :ultwiifittrainer: and :ultisabelle: pretty much shattered the whole being able to fight argument.
To be fair though, any substantial Knuckles support was pretty much killed early once he was shown in Sonic's fighter video. So there wasn't much to actually dissipate. It was over for Knuckles before Ultimate speculation really started. Both Tails and Shadow were in it to just about the very end unless you count Tails' cameo on GHZ in the demos for Ultimate. But alot of us in this very thread said why that wasn't a death knell to Tails' chances right away.
 
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Although I think Eggman would be a good addition, I still think that Tails, Shadow, or Knuckles would all make better additions. In fact I would rather have another one of those anthros for a 2nd Sonic rep instead.
 

SonicMario

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Although I think Eggman would be a good addition, I still think that Tails, Shadow, or Knuckles would all make better additions. In fact I would rather have another one of those anthros for a 2nd Sonic rep instead.
Dr. Eggman to me would be the 2nd best option next to Tails. Though I have a harder time thinking of Eggman's moveset. Because obviously he's not going to fight outside of a machine and actually walk unless they give him some weird mech suit that fits his body though he's never done that in a canon game of any sort. As all his machines tend to have a cockpit of some sort. I guess the intention would be to do something like Bowser Jr., though obviously it'd still have to be vastly different. If Eggman got in I'd trust Sakurai to do a good one, just feels like it'd probably be fairly easier and kind of a more popular decision to pick Tails, Knuckles, and/or Shadow (At least in Japan, while I think Eggman is well-loved in the West. I think of the Japanese Sonic fans they're very much more into some of Sonic's friends)

Eggman still seems like the sort that'd make a great boss to have in Smash somewhere ala Dracula and Rathalos.
 

SonicMario

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Sorry for the double post but while Tails isn't going to be playable in this Smash...

Screen Shot 2019-08-20 at 11.36.17 AM.png

Screen Shot 2019-08-20 at 11.36.46 AM.png


He'll still be able to kick butt with some Mario characters in the new Olympics game coming up, and even in Retro style as seen here. We have a new back throw
 
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RetrogamerMax2
Er, I love that Sonic is in Smash and all. But I think we should take a step back and not praise him to that level. Even as a huge Sonic fan who's favorite inclusion will always be him unless Tails does find his way in at some point. I don't think he's the #1 Iconic 3rd party ever to make Smash. I think characters like Megaman and Pac-Man certainly have a legacy of their own that's much older that could make them above Sonic. And maybe in some ways Banjo as well given he was pretty much a Nintendo character up until Rare was bought by Microsoft. I'd say Sonic is still above most of the others, but I think it's wrong to say Sonic should get another character because he's supposedly the most iconic.

He's one of the most popular and the only one to be in Smash for the entire time 3rd parties started to get in Smash. But we shouldn't put Sonic that high on a pedestal, that's bound to get more laughs out of the general Smash community then anything else.
Here is my iconic 3rd party tier list

S: :ultpacman: :ultsonic:

A: :ultmegaman: :ultryu: :ultken: :ultsimon: :ultsnake: :ultcloud: :ultbanjokazooie:

B: :ulthero:

C: :ultrichter: :ultbayonetta: :ultjoker:

I would say Sonic is above all the other 3rd party reps in terms of legacy, but is probably only dethroned by Pac-Man who everyone and their parents know. Anyone that grew up in the 80s knows who Pac-Man is even if they wouldn't a gamer.
 
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