I Will Believe In Myself: Miles "Tails" Prower Support Thread

[Ura]

Here is my iconic 3rd party tier list

S:

A:

B:

C:

I would say Sonic is above all the other 3rd party reps in terms of legacy, but is probably only dethroned by Pac-Man who everyone and their parents know. Anyone that grew up in the 80s knows who Pac-Man is even if they wouldn't a gamer.

Simon & Banjo are def B-Tier. I say that as a fan of both characters.

No way any of them match the iconic level Cloud & Snake are at.

 

[Peripuff]

Simon & Banjo are def B-Tier. I say that as a fan of both characters.

No way any of them match the iconic level Cloud & Snake are at.

Hero is also definitely A tier at least imo. I’d probably also put Richter in B considering the two games he appears in are widely considered the two best Castlevania games

 

[fogbadge]

guys come one, lets not debate how iconic certain characters, we all agree that sonic is popular enough and iconic enough to warrant another character and how iconic the rest of them are shouldnt really matter as far as tails is concerned

 

[Ura]

Hero is also definitely A tier at least imo. I’d probably also put Richter in B considering the two games he appears in are widely considered the two best Castlevania games

Yeah Richter is about on the same level as Simon but Simon is the character people requested for in Smash. Hero has the benefit of being from one of the most popular franchises in Japan.

guys come one, lets not debate how iconic certain characters, we all agree that sonic is popular enough and iconic enough to warrant another character and how iconic the rest of them are shouldnt really matter as far as tails is concerned

Well TBH I just came to this thread to make that post lol. As for Tails, i'm indifferent TBH but I know he would make Coricus hyped so i'm down haha.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Now that more fighter passes have been confirmed what are the chances of Tails being released as future DLC. Since Knuckles is an assist trophy.

 

[SonicMario]

Now that more fighter passes have been confirmed what are the chances of Tails being released as future DLC. Since Knuckles is an assist trophy.

Probably still not very good all because of the Mii costume. If any Sonic characters are added through the additional characters not in the fighter pass. All I can see is Shadow if Echoes are a part of this and if Assists get promoted within the same game. (Of which Waluigi is the only unique choice I think can make it, while Shadow can make it if Echoes are eligible for some of these characters still being included)

I'd love to be wrong though and Tails still makes it anyway somehow. But it's best not to get our hopes up too high.

We don't even know the details of these additional characters, will it be a 2nd pass? Will it be mostly 1st parties this time to kind of balance out how 3rd party focused the fighter pass was? As mentioned before, will more echoes be included? Will there be a promotional pick that divides fans again? (A Three Houses character and/or a Gen 8 Pokemon), etc.

Whoever is the first character outside of the fighter pass will have to give us a good idea on what to expect. (i'm starting to wonder if it's Geno)

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Probably still not very good all because of the Mii costume. If any Sonic characters are added through the additional characters not in the fighter pass. All I can see is Shadow if Echoes are a part of this and if Assists get promoted within the same game. (Of which Waluigi is the only unique choice I think can make it, while Shadow can make it if Echoes are eligible for some of these characters still being included)

I'd love to be wrong though and Tails still makes it anyway somehow. But it's best not to get our hopes up too high.

We don't even know the details of these additional characters, will it be a 2nd pass? Will it be mostly 1st parties this time to kind of balance out how 3rd party focused the fighter pass was? As mentioned before, will more echoes be included? Will there be a promotional pick that divides fans again? (A Three Houses character and/or a Gen 8 Pokemon), etc.

Whoever is the first character outside of the fighter pass will have to give us a good idea on what to expect. (i'm starting to wonder if it's Geno)

So far the current DLC fighters revealed are Joker, Hero, Banjo, and Terry, Tails will defenitely not be the last of the 5.

Uhh. Mii costumes unlike assist trophies, don't deconfirm of efrect a character's chances of being playable nor do they deconfirm. Also we don't know how many DLC characters we will be getting in the months following Spring 2020. But one I know for sure is that assist trophies and 4th party characters can't be released as DLC. And spirit don't deconfirm playable characters, so Tails still has a high chance, which justifies why Knuckles is an assist trophy.

 

[SonicMario]

So far the current DLC fighters revealed are Joker, Hero, Banjo, and Terry, Tails will defenitely not be the last of the 5.

Uhh. Mii costumes unlike assist trophies, don't deconfirm of efrect a character's chances of being playable nor do they deconfirm. Also we don't know how many DLC characters we will be getting in the months following Spring 2020. But one I know for sure is that assist trophies and 4th party characters can't be released as DLC. And spirit don't deconfirm playable characters, so Tails still has a high chance, which justifies why Knuckles is an assist trophy.

I wish I could say I could believe you, but it's definitely not a shared thought that a character that gets an announced costume before they're fully playable in the same game.

And as for Assists, I believe Waluigi is the only special case where a unique character might be lifted to playable in the same game. If it extends to Echoes as I mentioned too, Shadow's probably a good candidate for that too. Other then those two I think it's generally right that even this 2nd wind of Speculation won't really pick them up much.

Believe me, I want you to be right. But I just can't see it at this moment. We just don't have anything to combat the doubts after the Mii costume announcement Post-Joker. If Tails happens, it would catch everybody by surprise. Perhaps it's better that way if it turns out good because of how excited we'd be after losing hope. But at the same time, we can keep ourselves grounded in the reality that Sonic's probably not getting another character outside an echo in Ultimate.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

And as for Assists, I believe Waluigi is the only special case where a unique character might be lifted to playable in the same game. If it extends to Echoes as I mentioned too, Shadow's probably a good candidate for that too. Other then those two I think it's generally right that even this 2nd wind of Speculation won't really pick them up much.

Hmm.. Since Sans is a mii costume, if Waluigi gets released as DLC. And then If the waluigi assist trophy appears while waluigi is in battle, Papyrus could be summoned and mimic his behavior instead. I also think the same could go for Shadow, by simply replacing him with Scourge when Shadow is in battle.

 

[fogbadge]

Hmm.. Since Sans is a mii costume, if Waluigi gets released as DLC. And then If the waluigi assist trophy appears while waluigi is in battle, Papyrus could be summoned and mimic his behavior instead. I also think the same could go for Shadow, by simply replacing him with Scourge when Shadow is in battle.

i seriously doubt theyd put in a comic original character

 

[kaithehedgefox]

i seriously doubt theyd put in a comic original character

Well, Karin (Street Fighter) Is a fourth party character from a third party franchise because she originated from a Street Fighter manga, and she is a spirit. So I think Scourge could still appear as an assist trophy replacement.

 

[MainJPW]

Well, Karin (Street Fighter) Is a fourth party character from a third party franchise because she originated from a Street Fighter manga, and she is a spirit. So I think Scourge could still appear as an assist trophy replacement.

That's literally impossible. Like Amy Rose and Charmy Bee (who, like Karin, appeared in a manga series first), he has to appear in a Sonic game first for that to even be a possibility...assuming they don't just leave or even disable the AT which is more probable.

Karin went on to appear in a game after her manga debut...I don't see a game version of Scourge anywhere.

 

[fogbadge]

Well, Karin (Street Fighter) Is a fourth party character from a third party franchise because she originated from a Street Fighter manga, and she is a spirit. So I think Scourge could still appear as an assist trophy replacement.

what mainjpw said, its a different situation

 

[MacDaddyNook]

I wish I could say I could believe you, but it's definitely not a shared thought that a character that gets an announced costume before they're fully playable in the same game.

And as for Assists, I believe Waluigi is the only special case where a unique character might be lifted to playable in the same game. If it extends to Echoes as I mentioned too, Shadow's probably a good candidate for that too. Other then those two I think it's generally right that even this 2nd wind of Speculation won't really pick them up much.

Believe me, I want you to be right. But I just can't see it at this moment. We just don't have anything to combat the doubts after the Mii costume announcement Post-Joker. If Tails happens, it would catch everybody by surprise. Perhaps it's better that way if it turns out good because of how excited we'd be after losing hope. But at the same time, we can keep ourselves grounded in the reality that Sonic's probably not getting another character outside an echo in Ultimate.

I'm absolutely certain that ATs will not be made playable. It just seems like too much work to recode them just to add in a specific character that they couldn't have come up with an idea as playable for in the first place. I'm also siding on the notion that DLC Mii costumes also count out a character since it seems unlikely they'd go through the effort to make them only for them to be replaced with a fighter. Spirits are iffy, but I'm erring on the side of them counting out characters as well, just since we haven't seen anything at all to imply otherwise.

 

[SonicMario]

I'm absolutely certain that ATs will not be made playable. It just seems like too much work to recode them just to add in a specific character that they couldn't have come up with an idea as playable for in the first place. I'm also siding on the notion that DLC Mii costumes also count out a character since it seems unlikely they'd go through the effort to make them only for them to be replaced with a fighter. Spirits are iffy, but I'm erring on the side of them counting out characters as well, just since we haven't seen anything at all to imply otherwise.

I definitely understand and definitely do feel that it's still a hurdle at the very least buuuuut I feel Waluigi and Shadow are both in unique sitations depending what goes on. If we get new echoes, I feel despite being an Assist already. Shadow stands a good chance of being made available. They could very well just program that the Assists don't appear on Stages when a character is selected. Just like how Knuckles can not appear on Green Hill Zone because they actually thought about that when Knuckles is already running on the loop in the background.

And as for Waluigi. The controversy of the death threats on Twitter aside, Waluigi no doubt got the biggest reaction amongst the initial wave of deconfirmations. News media reported about it, memed to hell and back, etc. When one character is shouted out loud at Nintendo enough and people like Reggie even answer questions and/or comments about it not long after. It should at least be in the back of our minds. Again, still a hurdle. But if we should get an assist promoted within the same game and not be an echo, Waluigi's pretty much first in line.

Mii Costumes are still pretty much death knells pretty much yeah as unfortunate that is for our little fox boy. But Spirits definitely I feel kind of lose their deconfirmation power as more time goes on. We're probably getting at least another 1st party sometime after the Fighter pass is over. And though they could always be say a more promotional character like say a Gen 8 Pokemon or Three Houses. I think the potential amount of characters has increased dramatically from when we assumed the Fighter Pass would be all there is

 

[MacDaddyNook]

I definitely understand and definitely do feel that it's still a hurdle at the very least buuuuut I feel Waluigi and Shadow are both in unique sitations depending what goes on. If we get new echoes, I feel despite being an Assist already. Shadow stands a good chance of being made available. They could very well just program that the Assists don't appear on Stages when a character is selected. Just like how Knuckles can not appear on Green Hill Zone because they actually thought about that when Knuckles is already running on the loop in the background.

And as for Waluigi. The controversy of the death threats on Twitter aside, Waluigi no doubt got the biggest reaction amongst the initial wave of deconfirmations. News media reported about it, memed to hell and back, etc. When one character is shouted out loud at Nintendo enough and people like Reggie even answer questions and/or comments about it not long after. It should at least be in the back of our minds. Again, still a hurdle. But if we should get an assist promoted within the same game and not be an echo, Waluigi's pretty much first in line.

Mii Costumes are still pretty much death knells pretty much yeah as unfortunate that is for our little fox boy. But Spirits definitely I feel kind of lose their deconfirmation power as more time goes on. We're probably getting at least another 1st party sometime after the Fighter pass is over. And though they could always be say a more promotional character like say a Gen 8 Pokemon or Three Houses. I think the potential amount of characters has increased dramatically from when we assumed the Fighter Pass would be all there is

I get your logic, but I don't really see them going through the extra effort to convert interactive NPC characters to a playable role when they could add other characters that could generate even more excitement with less work having to recode how established elements of the game works. There has never been a precedent to upgrade an AT in the same game and all past actions point to them not doing so still. After all, if the massive buzz about Ridley in the past game couldn't get him in as a DLC fighter, I doubt the smaller response over Waluigi will do as much (and even far less for Shadow who's reaction is significantly smaller). He probably will make it next game, much in the way Ridley and K. Rool made it to this one, but I just don't see any AT being converted in Ultimate.

Also, Sakurai did mention something along the lines of the DLC introducing new game worlds to the series. From how he said it, it almost implied that the focus of DLC will not be for characters from a series that currently has fighters. I guess time will tell and characters from existing series could possibly make it, but I honestly have my doubts until we see something that can indicate this direction.

With all that said, I still support Miles and hope I could be wrong about the Spirits and "new worlds" statement. If he doesn't make this game, hope will remain for Smash 6 and beyond.

 

[MainJPW]

There has never been a precedent to upgrade an AT in the same game and all past actions point to them not doing so still.

Just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean it won't happen now.

After all, if the massive buzz about Ridley in the past game couldn't get him in as a DLC fighter, I doubt the smaller response over Waluigi will do as much (and even far less for Shadow who's reaction is significantly smaller). He probably will make it next game, much in the way Ridley and K. Rool made it to this one, but I just don't see any AT being converted in Ultimate.

The thing about that is the rough draft for Ultimate was completed in 2015 while the DLC was still being made. The interesting thing about the DLC in Smash 4 is the old characters had assets from previous games to work with, on the other end the new characters were built off of existing characters as a base; newly added slots with stats from existing characters that were constantly changing each patch until eventually becoming the DLC's with Bayonetta being based on Zamus and Cloud & Corrin on Ike were discovered. This is what led to the revelation that the ballot was being used for Ultimate rather than 4 since the slot that became Bayonetta was added not long after the ballot was announced.

We KNOW that K. Rool and Ridley came from the ballot and it was deducted that they couldn't be added because the Wii U was already on its way out. Same thing with characters like Inkling.

Also, Sakurai did mention something along the lines of the DLC introducing new game worlds to the series. From how he said it, it almost implied that the focus of DLC will not be for characters from a series that currently has fighters. I guess time will tell and characters from existing series could possibly make it, but I honestly have my doubts until we see something that can indicate this direction.

That was a mistranslation. This is what he actually said.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[7NATOR]

Well, Karin (Street Fighter) Is a fourth party character from a third party franchise because she originated from a Street Fighter manga, and she is a spirit. So I think Scourge could still appear as an assist trophy replacement.

The Problem with Scrouge is he got screwed over by the Ken Panders lawsuit with the Archie comic. there's a reason you don't see Scrouge, or other Archie origin Character anymore. Sega would never allow it unfortunately

Anyways also Tails Fanbase, As a Shadow Fan, I'm gonna have to declare war on you guys. If there is chance of Shadow being in with Extra DLC, can't let you guys win. Like if Tails gets in, I will Congratulate you and hell I will Play him myself, but since we are not there yet, you guys are now my foes. Can''t lose

Shadow unique, Unique Shadow. Shadow Side, Shadow for Smash

 

[MainJPW]

Anyways also Tails Fanbase, As a Shadow Fan, I'm gonna have to declare war on you guys. If there is chance of Shadow being in with Extra DLC, can't let you guys win. Like if Tails gets in, I will Congratulate you and hell I will Play him myself, but since we are not there yet, you guys are now my foes. Can''t lose

Shadow unique, Unique Shadow. Shadow Side, Shadow for Smash

Not sure why this declaration was necessary. If you want Shadow more go support him, no need to drop by a separate support thread to tell those supporters that you're rallying for a different character.

 

[7NATOR]

Not sure why this declaration was necessary. If you want Shadow more go support him, no need to drop by a separate support thread to tell those supporters that you're rallying for a different character.

I Lurk around here often, I was just giving kaithehedgefox an answer about Why Scrouge probably won't happen. Since i did that, i might as well just declare war

This isn't to say i Hate Tails. Like i said, If Tails is still in I will Congratulate you guys and play as him, but it's just that after seeing all the SNK Characrers like Kyo, Iori, Geese, Nakoruru getting shafted in Terry's Trailer, and all the opposition i've faced since i took the Side of Unique Shadow, I Can't take any chances you know.

It's life or Death. Shadow being in Smash is like my main Aspiration to live right now. I'm not dying until he gets in, unless I Find a Reason to sacrifice my life for the greater good of humanity. Then i will do that so i can bring change onto world. Until that happens, Support for Shadow

 

[fogbadge]

I Lurk around here often, I was just giving kaithehedgefox an answer about Why Scrouge probably won't happen. Since i did that, i might as well just declare war

This isn't to say i Hate Tails. Like i said, If Tails is still in I will Congratulate you guys and play as him, but it's just that after seeing all the SNK Characrers like Kyo, Iori, Geese, Nakoruru getting shafted in Terry's Trailer, and all the opposition i've faced since i took the Side of Unique Shadow, I Can't take any chances you know.

It's life or Death. Shadow being in Smash is like my main Aspiration to live right now. I'm not dying until he gets in, unless I Find a Reason to sacrifice my life for the greater good of humanity. Then i will do that so i can bring change onto world. Until that happens, Support for Shadow

do we really need to fight?

 

[7NATOR]

do we really need to fight?

Okay maybe not like actually fighting

I'm talking more a friendly competetion yeah

I Just like to use some hyperbole, so that's why i said i declare war

 

[kaithehedgefox]

The Problem with Scrouge is he got screwed over by the Ken Panders lawsuit with the Archie comic. there's a reason you don't see Scrouge, or other Archie origin Character anymore. Sega would never allow it unfortunately

And also, Karin being a fourth party character from a 3rd party franchise also explains/justifies why Sally should and can be an assist trophy in Smash 6. She would also make a great mii fighter costume along with bunnie.

 

[MainJPW]

And also, Karin being a fourth party character from a 3rd party franchise also explains/justifies why Sally should and can be an assist trophy in Smash 6. She would also make a great mii fighter costume along with bunnie.

Karin isn't a 4th party. Sally and Bunnie aren't possible.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Karin isn't a 4th party. Sally and Bunnie aren't possible.

Actually Karin is debuted in a street fighter manga series, which makes her a 4th party character from a 3rd party franchise. So I still think Sally and Bunnie can be mii costumes in the future.

 

[MainJPW]

Actually Karin is debuted in a street fighter manga series, which makes her a 4th party character from a 3rd party franchise.

How did you read my previous comment and not come to the conclusion that I already know that? plus you said she was a manga debut already.

4th party isn't a real term. She's a 3rd party just like Mickey Mouse or Goku or any fictional character not from Nintendo.

It's like you're trying to find some loophole; Karin is primarily a game character so her debuting in a manga doesn't mean anything.

So I still think Sally and Bunnie can be mii costumes in the future.

Sally and Bunny aren't even acknowledged in Sonic games and have rights issues. I'll keep saying it; it's not possible.

 

[MacDaddyNook]

Just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean it won't happen now.

The thing about that is the rough draft for Ultimate was completed in 2015 while the DLC was still being made. The interesting thing about the DLC in Smash 4 is the old characters had assets from previous games to work with, on the other end the new characters were built off of existing characters as a base; newly added slots with stats from existing characters that were constantly changing each patch until eventually becoming the DLC's with Bayonetta being based on Zamus and Cloud & Corrin on Ike were discovered. This is what led to the revelation that the ballot was being used for Ultimate rather than 4 since the slot that became Bayonetta was added not long after the ballot was announced.

We KNOW that K. Rool and Ridley came from the ballot and it was deducted that they couldn't be added because the Wii U was already on its way out. Same thing with characters like Inkling.

That was a mistranslation. This is what he actually said.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Thanks for the clarification on the last one. That does mean that existing worlds are still on the table for new characters.

When it comes to this batch of DLC, it looks like a similar approach is done where they used existing characters as a base. Joker and Hero both "borrow" some animations from other characters. I wouldn't be surprised if all of them were built up from existing characters, which isn't that bad of an idea when you consider having to make due with less resources, manpower and time. With that said, I do think if they really wanted to give the fans what they were shouting for, they would have done so in the past also. I don't really see Waluigi's plight any different than Ridley's before, and I expect him to headline Smash 6's newcomers instead of appearing in this game.

As for current AT characters being playable in this game, I still don't see it happening. I get the argument about anything could be possible, but the chances of them completely changing how they have been doesn't look high enough for me to consider it anything but a 0%. I'm not saying don't support or hope for the characters you like, but in my own personal view, I still see interactive NPCs as not happening.

 

[fogbadge]

Okay maybe not like actually fighting

I'm talking more a friendly competetion yeah

I Just like to use some hyperbole, so that's why i said i declare war

friendly competition? well thats fine by me. and before you know it tails and shadow will be side by side in all sorts of friendly contests like the olympics



wait

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Hmm. Do you think we're going to get a 2nd rep of another 3rd party franchise before we get another Sonic rep? Well Kyo has a high chance of being a 2nd King of Fighters rep in the 2nd fighters pass. Kyo would also be the first 3rd party rep to not be a primary rep nor an echo. So if that's the case, could Tails be a playable character to?

Since Shadow is already an assist trophy for no good, I would love to see Shadow as a mii costume despite wanting him to be playable.

 

[MainJPW]

Hmm. Do you think we're going to get a 2nd rep of another 3rd party franchise before we get another Sonic rep?

Who knows.

Well Kyo has a high chance of being a 2nd King of Fighters rep in the 2nd fighters pass.

Why?

Kyo would also be the first 3rd party rep to not be a primary rep nor an echo. So if that's the case, could Tails be a playable character too?

You need to tell me why Kusanagi has a high chance in the first place. Also, we don't even know if there will be a second fighters pass, all we know is that there are more characters on the way.

 

[fogbadge]

Hmm. Do you think we're going to get a 2nd rep of another 3rd party franchise before we get another Sonic rep? Well Kyo has a high chance of being a 2nd King of Fighters rep in the 2nd fighters pass. Kyo would also be the first 3rd party rep to not be a primary rep nor an echo. So if that's the case, could Tails be a playable character to?

Since Shadow is already an assist trophy for no good, I would love to see Shadow as a mii costume despite wanting him to be playable.

havent you asked this already?

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Who knows.

What do you think is more likely, a 2nd sonic rep, a 2nd megaman rep, a 2nd pacman rep, or another non-primary 3rd party rep.

Also, if Fox and Samus had mii costumes in Smash 4, that means that mii costumes don't deconfirm. So could the same thing happen with Tails? He could be both a mii costume and playable? And I've already aforementioned that spirits don't deconfirm, although assist trophies do.

You need to tell me why Kusanagi has a high chance in the first place.

I have no idea why. But Kyo is my most wanted 3rd party primary rep along with Reimu (touhou).

 

[MainJPW]

What do you think is more likely, a 2nd sonic rep, a 2nd megaman rep, a 2nd pacman rep, or another non-primary 3rd party rep.

I'm assuming this is for after the pass, I'll go ahead and say non-primary.

Also, if Fox and Samus had mii costumes in Smash 4, that means that mii costumes don't deconfirm. So could the same thing happen with Tails? He could be both a mii costume and playable? And I've already aforementioned that spirits don't deconfirm, although assist trophies do.

But they were already playable. We haven't had a character be upgraded from being a costume to playable status in the same game so far. Of course, that doesn't mean it can't happen...

I have no idea why. But Kyo is my most wanted 3rd party primary rep along with Reimu (touhou).

...

Alright. That doesn't give him a "high chance" but okay.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

But they were already playable. We haven't had a character be upgraded from being a costume to playable status in the same game so far. Of course, that doesn't mean it can't happen...

That's a red flag, but mii costumes and spirits still don't deconfirm. So assist trophies, 4th party characters, minor characters (note piranha plant is an exception), excessively obscure characters, and characters without a significant console history, are currently the only deconfirmations, unless (inset character here) becomes officially stated that they won't be playable.

 

[fogbadge]

That's a red flag, but mii costumes and spirits still don't deconfirm. So assist trophies, 4th party characters, minor characters (note piranha plant is an exception), excessively obscure characters, and characters without a significant console history, are currently the only deconfirmations, unless (inset character here) becomes officially stated that they won't be playable.

theres no such thing as a 4th party character

 

[RileyXY1]

theres no such thing as a 4th party character

It's just a slang term used by Smash fans to refer to characters that didn't debut in a video game.

 

[fogbadge]

It's just a slang term used by Smash fans to refer to characters that didn't debut in a video game.

i know, but its still not a thing

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Since there will be more DLC fighters, I could make a petition to Nintendo to make Tails at least one of them.

 

[MainJPW]

Since there will be more DLC fighters, I could make a petition to Nintendo to make Tails at least one of them.

Every single time you bring up a petition we're still going to tell you no. This isn't remotely close to being petition worthy.

Either Tails gets in on his own or he doesn't. That's that.

 

[fogbadge]

Since there will be more DLC fighters, I could make a petition to Nintendo to make Tails at least one of them.

itd be more practical to just spread the idea as far as possible, as fan demand can work