I want to pick up Zelda, but the threads here are old. =[

[Rubyiris]

Topic.

I'm looking to pick up Zelda. I'm not good with her, but I have loads of fun when I do play her. I'm hoping to get some more up-to-date advice. Mostly match-up strategies against:

Marth
Fox
Sheik
Peach
Falco
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff
Ice Climbers

I have some idea on what to do against Peach, but that's it.

 

[TheLake]

You want to kick many long time lots but there are certain things to keep in mind when playing against folks. Always play very very patient and you should at least do somthing groovy.

Marth - sheild game is imperitave. Light shield fairs and kick out of shield *****.
Fox - Crouch cancel downsmashes, forward smashes and upsmash out of shield are awsome.
Sheik - Christ...umm...bait kicks and be smart about edgeguarding. Jab is nice ^_^
Peach - Kick out ranges all of peachs moves. Keep this in mind and reflect turnips.
Falco - Nyarus love them lazers. Nair is nice to throw the falcos rhytme off, anything to get that kick
Captain falcon - Upsmash catching *****. Downsmash edgeguards work wonders.
Jigglypuff - Retreating kicks. Try not to full hop or be in the air too long.
Ice climbers - Enjoy this one. Aim for nana (:

Those are some basics for ya brah

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Uthrow to kick is good on fastfallers... umm...

In general, a lot of starting Zeldas kick a lot. Which is fine, but they don't sweetspot their kicks and are kicking at times where it's not possible for them to sweetspot it. So use the nair or something instead.

EDIT: Also helps sometimes to let other people come to you. Zelda doesn't move particularly fast and spacing kicks is harder when both people are moving. I'm not saying wait on the other side of the stage, I'm saying just dashdance or stand around near them and kick when they're about in range.

 

[Rubyiris]

Can you explain to me which characters can be chain grabbed? I need to know from what percentage to which percentage it works. I need to know which moves these chain grabs can move into depending on which direction they DI.

I saw a Melee Zelda combo video featuring many chain grabs on a Fox, which cemented my want to pick up Zelda. I had been playing her on and off for the last year or so, but I basically just played patiently and spammed D Smash, F Smash, and her aerials. I used Nayru's love as a pseudo-shine, and I like using it out of my shield. I also use din's fire as a set-up for edge guarding, but it's pretty hard.

 

[Rubyiris]

Uthrow to kick is good on fastfallers... umm...

In general, a lot of starting Zeldas kick a lot. Which is fine, but they don't sweetspot their kicks and are kicking at times where it's not possible for them to sweetspot it. So use the nair or something instead.

EDIT: Also helps sometimes to let other people come to you. Zelda doesn't move particularly fast and spacing kicks is harder when both people are moving. I'm not saying wait on the other side of the stage, I'm saying just dashdance or stand around near them and kick when they're about in range.

Bait attacks with dash dancing, and punish accordingly, basically. The same tactic that generic Fox uses, which is also my favorite play style. :3

 

[TheLake]

Falcon can be chain grabbed along with falco and fox. The typical fast faller stuff.

For fox try to get as many jabs and chain grabs as you can then finish with a kick. For falco just upthrow to kick. Falcon you can actually combo with upsmashs if they dont DI but give him the boot as well yadayada.

Try experimenting against those who DI though. Like throw some down angled Ftilts in there to throw them off or even finishing with a forward smash rather than kick. Zelda doesnt get many grabs in higher levels of play so its best to keep them guessing and make them throws count.

 

[Rubyiris]

Falcon can be chain grabbed along with falco and fox. The typical fast faller stuff.

For fox try to get as many jabs and chain grabs as you can then finish with a kick. For falco just upthrow to kick. Falcon you can actually combo with upsmashs if they dont DI but give him the boot as well yadayada.

Try experimenting against those who DI though. Like throw some down angled Ftilts in there to throw them off or even finishing with a forward smash rather than kick. Zelda doesnt get many grabs in higher levels of play so its best to keep them guessing and make them throws count.

I noticed that Zelda's grab is pretty picky. It often misses crouched players, and has a very gimp range, but at the same time, I've had some freak moments where she had like Marth-level grab range. Is there a reason why?

 

[TheLake]

The range isnt the issue. Dash grab actually can grab folks around you and jump canceled grabs have awsome range in front of ya. (Dont even get me started on boost grabbing ^_^...total sarcasm) But rather the flaw in zeldas grab lies in its unfathnombly slow speed. Like you can hit the grab button to punish a fastfaller who missed a tech roll and you'll still get pulvarized by a shine or somthing. *sigh* Oh well it still looks groovy and the things you can do out of it are truly magical.

Just dont go for shield grabs...like ever

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I posted the grabbox somewhere...

 

[Rubyiris]

What would be a good visual demonstration of the correct use of Zelda's DTilt as an edgeguard?

 

[ChivalRuse]

What would be a good visual demonstration of the correct use of Zelda's DTilt as an edgeguard?

Think of it like Marth's counter, because the timing is similar.

Hold down as the opponent recovers from beneath the ledge, and press A slightly before they reach you, because I believe the hitbox that meteors only works if you hit with the tip of zelda's foot, so space appropriately.

PS feel free to correct me on anything here.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I would just tilt down so it isn't blatantly obvious what you're going for. I dunno why you wouldn't use the dsmash instead, though, it's got more knockback and is faster...

 

[TheLake]

Dtilt is good on like one neutral. Like REALLY good on one neutral and thats Battlefield

Use downsmash. Its better and cooler (:

 

[Rubyiris]

I personally think dtilt would be cooler to use.

On another note: Ics are supprisingly easy easy to deal with. I have to struggle with them when I play my spacies, but Zelda is floaty enough to escape their chain grabs without getting murdered. I managed to toe on escape a few times. That was lovely. <3

 

[ChivalRuse]

I personally think dtilt would be cooler to use.

On another note: Ics are surprisingly easy easy to deal with. I have to struggle with them when I play my spacies, but Zelda is floaty enough to escape their chain grabs without getting murdered. I managed to toe on escape a few times. That was lovely. <3

LOL, ICs is like almost as easy for Zelda as for Peach. You can get earlier kills, too. Zel's fsmash ***** ICs, and there's not much that the siblings can do against well spaced kicks, which outrange all of their aerials. You can also live for a while with good DI. Needless to say, you don't want to get grabbed. Their WD is annoying, but just try to throw out hitboxes so that they can't get inside. Oh and upsmash beats anything they have coming down from above.

Edgeguard them with Din's fire and kick them out of their squall hammer (aim below the hitbox on their bodies). That's about all I can think of. Yea, just don't get grabbed.

 

[Rubyiris]

I just played quite a bit of Zelda today. I have made some observations, and have more questions to ask.

Observations:

Spacing toes correctly is pretty hard against Jigglypuff. I need to learn the spacing better.
Shiek may well be Zelda's hardest match up. This is seriously hard as ***.
The chain grab versus fast fallers is VERY hard to do. I need to get used to it.

Now for quesions:

I need further help against Shiek. I honestly don't know what to do. I'm just throwing **** out there and hoping it works. I just need a general strategy to work against Shiek.

What do I do against grab happy Marth players? I'm not sure if it was just bad DI on my part, but most of his throws lead into either a F-Smash, or he can simply chase me and wreck my world. "Don't get grabed." isn't helpful advice, since I can't always predict if he's going to attack me, or grab me.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Keep in mind for the chaingrab you're going to have to start the grab like ten frames before you actually want to grab.

Sheik... punish the approach. Sheik doesn't really have that great of an approach. Her shorthop is high, so her fast approaches will be the dash attack and the grab. You can spotdodge them and dsmash her, if you like, or jump over and aerial her. Fsmashing her out of them might work too. Needle camping is another possibility, but you can reflect all the needles with Nayru's Love if timed properly. Needle cancels are also a possibility... in that situation, I would just roll away/behind. Watch out for the needle charge cancel aerial mix ups though.

DI the throws down and away to avoid the fsmash. If he techchases, buffer spotdodges or dsmash. You can also just jump backwards and kick Marth when he approaches on the ground, because his dash attack probably isn't going to hit you and you've got more range on the kick than the grab, I think. If he goes into the air, I would be prepared for an aerial approach. Well. Yeah, duh.

Of course, both of these questions can be answered by one move: Transform!

 

[KirbyKaze]

Light shield Sheik's F-tilts and jump back and kick her after. Or jump forward and kick her depending on where she's doing it. Or, if Sheik's super spaced, jump back and then try again later.

 

[Rubyiris]

Keep in mind for the chaingrab you're going to have to start the grab like ten frames before you actually want to grab.

Sheik... punish the approach. Sheik doesn't really have that great of an approach. Her shorthop is high, so her fast approaches will be the dash attack and the grab. You can spotdodge them and dsmash her, if you like, or jump over and aerial her. Fsmashing her out of them might work too. Needle camping is another possibility, but you can reflect all the needles with Nayru's Love if timed properly. Needle cancels are also a possibility... in that situation, I would just roll away/behind. Watch out for the needle charge cancel aerial mix ups though.

DI the throws down and away to avoid the fsmash. If he techchases, buffer spotdodges or dsmash. You can also just jump backwards and kick Marth when he approaches on the ground, because his dash attack probably isn't going to hit you and you've got more range on the kick than the grab, I think. If he goes into the air, I would be prepared for an aerial approach. Well. Yeah, duh.

Of course, both of these questions can be answered by one move: Transform!

The goal is to learn Zelda, not Shiek.

Also; I mindgame'd a friend yesterday. He went C.Falcon thinking I was going to go Zelda. I started the first stock as Shiek, chain grabbed and tech chased him to death, then transformed back to Zelda for the last three stocks. Up smash spam wins, lol.

 

[TheLake]

Sheiks stupid lol

Know her options and she isnt so bad /:

Dash attack, grab, needles, some weird aerial are you only REAL threats seeing how titls you can easily DI cause your a wonderful floaty (Not to mention retaliate with a kick )

Dash attack can be crouchcanclled into downsmash or forward smash. Forward smash is the most devestating but downsmash is more reliable. Spot dodge the grab and any smash works fine, I like upsmash to kick. If you do get grabbed always mix up your DI. Either DI up and take the upair or away for the Fair (Those are the primary kills). If your above sheik just light shield into a kick. Zelda actually has a decent crouch, retaliation game against sheik . Eve sheiks down smash can tie with zeldas cause her down smash if the fastest smash in the game.

Light shield against marth. Your gonna get hit ALOT in this matchup so dont let that get to you. DI his throws down and away as mentioned above. Grab marth when ever you can. FOr what ever reason it makes a large difference. Nair is nice in this matchup too.

DownB for zelda is for squares

 

[KirbyKaze]

Use light shield to push you away and then jump out with kick.

 

[`EX]

Ruby on a friends account:

I was wondering the match-up percentage against Marth.

Also; I'm getting some good training in against Shiek, but I get a bit too aggressive against Shiek. I feel as though I should be more patient.

 

[TheLake]

Well duh zeldas all about patience ma man

And I say zelda against a marth is like 70-30 marth

Its like the peach marth matchup except you have more range in the air and no projectile

 

[Impp]

Yeah, Marth can be a *****.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

You can use his own spacing against him though.

 

[TheLake]

Kick The Sword!

Metal Conducts Electricity!

 

[Zone]

I think when it comes down to YOU WANT TO WIN in a marth vs Zelda.

Your gonna want the % lead some how so he's forced to get to you. If he's got the percent lead then... $)@*&$) Now you gotta bait his baits, to get a hit in and that's a tiny bit more annoying. Cuz marth baits you better than you can bait him. he's faster, his range is disjointed. and he has better ranged pivot moves.

But yeah since blocking is everyone's favorite thing to do against Zelda when you finally get in, cuz it stops everything except her uber punishable and laggy grab. So.. grab a little more often when you finally get in. Only when you KNOW they are probably to afraid to toss out a move. and when marth is close to 0% upthrow. when he's higher percents b-throw off the edge or something. Although a dash attack, leads to better rewards than when you grab around like 20% + or so.

 

[Rubyiris]

Dash attack is sick. I need to do it a tad more than I do. I also need to tilt more. I find myself using the same moves.

Jabs, Aerials, B moves, and Smashes. I'm omitting her tilt game, and I seldom dash attack. I try her grab game, but her grab box is the most gay and difficult to understand thing in existence.

Oh, I'm getting used to Shiek. I've been able to frequently 2 and 3 stock mediocre Shieks, and 1 and 2 stock average Shiek players. I won't stand a chance against any Shiek at a higher level of play. The same can be said for Marth.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Dtilt is faster than jab.

 

[TheLake]

Jabs faster and extends further

But dtilt is like zeldas safest move (:

Dash attack is cool man but if theres a move you DONT want to abuse its poor chubby little insecure dash attack. Zeldas tilts im conviced are incredible and are crucial to unlocking wee zeldas potential.

Oooh! Back to the dash attack thing though, I think for platforming chaseing dash attack is an incredible option. I think it covers options and you can drop off and kick to wrap things up quite nicely.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Jab hits frame eleven and is IASA frame twenty-seven. Dtilt hits frame five and is IASA frame thirty.

I dunno, both are shieldgrabbable, might as well go with the faster option.

 

[Dogysamich]

http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/Zelda_frames_11.6.05.txt

Zelda's D.smash is faster than both, at i4

iasa 32

 

[TheLake]

Well duh zeldas downsmash is like the fastest move in the game if ever there was one

well at least out of her moves (and smashes)...

Jab can at least stop some aerial approaches and d tilt is good against folks with terrible dash grabs or dash attacks. Thanks for the insight on the frame data though fellahs, thats always appreciated.

Coincidently enough jab to dtilt is sick along with dtilt to jab.
So wether you prefer one or the other is all fine and good. Knowing they work well together is also very nice too (:

Zelda makes the world go round

 

[Rubyiris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wzaphYSV5k&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlIS64Xwl4M&feature=channel_page

I play too aggressive on occasion.

*Controller johns:*

I can't jump out of my shield for some reason. Most of the time when I roll or try to grab out of my shield were attempted kicks out of my shield. =\

*End johns.*

 

[TheLake]

But you play blue

So your offically cool (:

 

[Impp]

I sometimes roll out of sheild, too, when I'm trying to kick. I think it has something to with the sheild stun, and I'm trying to jump too early or something. It happens a lot when I try to kick out of Sheik's downsmash.

 

[Rubyiris]

But you play blue

So your offically cool (:

Blue is the best color by far, though when I play Shiek (boo) I play default color.

<3

 

[TheLake]

Impp ma brotha! I gotta get our set up here soon

 

[Impp]

Sweet! You got the set?

 

[Rain(ame)]

Just a random question...but is that EX the same "renowned" EX who is a Peach player that people say he doesn't use AT's? You've got potential for a really good Zelda, keep it up, ^_^