Rubyiris
Smash Hero
No, he's not. He's an ICs/Shiek player.
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I want to pick up Zelda, but the threads here are old. =[
- Thread starter Rubyiris
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Rubyiris
Smash Hero
Good ****. <3
Zone
Smash Champion
Man, Thelake you're getting more and more pwn . If I'm ever at the same tournament as you. WE have to double Zelda.
. If I'm ever at the same tournament as you. WE have to double Zelda.
Double Zelda sounds about as crazy as double docs.
.... -stops and thinks-
I'd actually like to see double zelda, come to think of it.
.... -stops and thinks-
I'd actually like to see double zelda, come to think of it.
D
Deleted member
Guest
horrible team. can't save each other, can't punish campers or shield campers. not good at weird stages, dies gay deaths. all it does is magnify zelda's weaknesses in upper play while removing all of the advantages that diversity brings.
i never said it'd be the greatest team or anything, im just curious as to what all could/would happen.
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
I played some games with Zelda at Mewtwos Revenge, an AZ tourney, and played many friendlies with her afterward, most notably, I managed to beat V3ctorman's Falco.
I noticed that I have a habit of trying to chase them off the stage with dairs and f/bairs trying for easy gimps, or stage spikes. I either miss, get hit by their recovery move, or they meteor cancel. My most common way to lose stocks with Zelda is dairing off the stage, using my second jump to fair them if they grabbed the ledge, then up+b above the stage, but due to her poor DI after her up+b, she can't move enough to land back onto the stage, and lose a stock in some of the most cheesy edge hogs I've ever seen.
I was wrong, Umbreon. I felt that Fox was an easy match up, because the player I frequently practiced with played aggressively, but also predictably. I played against another friend who played a passive style, and I found it IMPOSSIBLE to approach a campy fox. I then played a friendly against Tee ay eye, who just pretty much spending the whole time 0 to deathing my Zelda. I did redeem myself by nearly beating him in singles brackets with my own Fox, despite not being as good of a player, or as experienced. <3
Also; WTF do I do against Mewtwo? LOL.
I noticed that I have a habit of trying to chase them off the stage with dairs and f/bairs trying for easy gimps, or stage spikes. I either miss, get hit by their recovery move, or they meteor cancel. My most common way to lose stocks with Zelda is dairing off the stage, using my second jump to fair them if they grabbed the ledge, then up+b above the stage, but due to her poor DI after her up+b, she can't move enough to land back onto the stage, and lose a stock in some of the most cheesy edge hogs I've ever seen.
I was wrong, Umbreon. I felt that Fox was an easy match up, because the player I frequently practiced with played aggressively, but also predictably. I played against another friend who played a passive style, and I found it IMPOSSIBLE to approach a campy fox. I then played a friendly against Tee ay eye, who just pretty much spending the whole time 0 to deathing my Zelda. I did redeem myself by nearly beating him in singles brackets with my own Fox, despite not being as good of a player, or as experienced. <3
Also; WTF do I do against Mewtwo? LOL.
D
Deleted member
Guest
idk, it's mewtwo. do moves that aren't venerable to WD grab or shadowball to WD grab.
try WD off dair with zelda for spikes, it lets you 2nd jump and kick and if you hold away from the stage during the kick, you can up B and land just over the edge. do both the dair and kick with C stick to avoid a fastfall when you WD off.
you can also do nair instead of kick, it has the same effect without the spacing. If you DI away from the stage after the dair 2nd jump nair and hold away during the nair, 9/10 if it hits it will hit on the side of zelda that is closer to the stage and do some weak gay hit that sends them out farther. You also have the option to up B to an edgehog instead.
try WD off dair with zelda for spikes, it lets you 2nd jump and kick and if you hold away from the stage during the kick, you can up B and land just over the edge. do both the dair and kick with C stick to avoid a fastfall when you WD off.
you can also do nair instead of kick, it has the same effect without the spacing. If you DI away from the stage after the dair 2nd jump nair and hold away during the nair, 9/10 if it hits it will hit on the side of zelda that is closer to the stage and do some weak gay hit that sends them out farther. You also have the option to up B to an edgehog instead.
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
Thanks for the advice. I'll practice this next time Tucson gets together for weeklies. I'll be sure to keep the Zelda board updated with videos, as well as my progress. I decided to give up on practicing things on my own without other players. I'm sure learning the spacing for Zelda's attacks, and learn the distance, and angling of her up+b, but at this point in time, I feel that I will only improve if I continue to play more and more people.
Mewtwos like weird
Kick to nair is nice way to pressure and zeldas forward and upsmash and jab are nice in the matchup.
You will lose though even if you win just cause its mewtwo though. **** those soft counters.
Anyways good **** rubryis at taking down V3ctormans falco with zelda.
Fox is annoying as hell but sheik is a waaay worst matchup. Fact.
Kick to nair is nice way to pressure and zeldas forward and upsmash and jab are nice in the matchup.
You will lose though even if you win just cause its mewtwo though. **** those soft counters.
Anyways good **** rubryis at taking down V3ctormans falco with zelda.
Fox is annoying as hell but sheik is a waaay worst matchup. Fact.
D
Deleted member
Guest
at least when sheik ***** you, you had a chance to outplay her. if fox doesn't want to get hit, you are NOT hitting him.
zelda does fine vs mewtwo.
Other way around
Shiek doesnt even have to play good to utterly massacre you
You can at least chain throw bad foxes. You dont even have gurantees on bad shieks (except like predictable downsmashes where you just jump out of shield and kick.)
Ill agree that zelda is fiiiine (;
But its not suprising that mewtwos can give her a little trouble. Anyone with a projectile can put zelda in this situation (Except ness).
Shiek doesnt even have to play good to utterly massacre you
You can at least chain throw bad foxes. You dont even have gurantees on bad shieks (except like predictable downsmashes where you just jump out of shield and kick.)
Ill agree that zelda is fiiiine (;
But its not suprising that mewtwos can give her a little trouble. Anyone with a projectile can put zelda in this situation (Except ness).
Zone
Smash Champion
No one said this was a winning idea. Or that double Zelda was even remotely close to even a decent idea. picking the same crap character twice for teams is obviously fail. No need to elaborate how bad it's going to be. It's for fun reasons. In general you just shouldn't even use Zelda in teams. Just be jiggz and Fox, or double fox. or some platoon of mixed high tiers, if your wanting to win. But since I plan to play Zelda, I'm kinda already planning to lose, but Still playing to win.
I know powershielding needles is a pointless attempt. But the thing about fox is. How the fark can you powershield shdl, or even just regular laser spam. Atleast when you reflect falco's it stuns him so you can close some kind of distance. Even then though falco can time his laser low so he can jump over his own laser. Which obviously in turn opens you up to do something different than stand there and shield. My point is, My only chance of even remotely kinda getting close to beating falcos. Is the fact that I can light shield, and power shield. Light shield to get out of pressure and punish. Powershield to make them a little less careless with laser spam.
Fox on the other hand can shoot them so fast you may as well just run through them, get baited then owned. Shiek is bs hard to, but atleast she has to charge her projectile and it can only go straight on the ground, or diagnal from where they are jumping. Fox can pretty much shoot his where-ever he wants.
Just saying you can atleast approach shiek better as compared to approaching fox.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbOYGrHu8pU&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPmnCTbK5io&feature=channel_page
^My only m2 experience. Perhaps you may learn something, perhaps you may tell me something I'm doing wrong. Cuz I did lose LOL.
Game 1: Iori made a read, as long as he waits for it you will eventually try to approach with a dash attack. He just waited for it and shieldgrabbed everytime he could. He couldnt get in, you did a good job of keeping him out, so he just took whatever punishment he could along the way and waited for a dash attack. To make matters worse, it seemed as if you tried to beat his dashdance camping with dash attack.
Game 2: Poor spacing, from both of you. Dont read that as me trying to talk down on you and Iori. It's literally what I saw, as it lead to both of you guys getting punished left and right. Big problem #1 was that iori was finding ways to get in, and once he got in, you didnt make much of an attempt to get out but opted to fight it (which isnt exactly bad), but bad reads lead to more damage. The second big problem, and I think Iori made this read in game 2 instead of game 1 and holding it to game 2 is that if you are coming down onto the stage, you always came down and attacked. Iori just stood on the edge to give you a reason to throw something, moved and punished. Towards the end you stopped touching that stove, but the damage had been done from that at that point.
Overall, I say you did a good job of keeping him at bay and keeping him out, except for the one time game 2 (it happens though). I really have no clue how zelda can get in, dash attack is not the answer. I would imagine that you have to work in more grabs if you wanted to go in, or play more defense. Maybe look to do more stuff out of the run (Dash cancelled f.smash/jab). Dont quote me on this part as I dont really play Zelda, it's just an idea I have.
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
Against decent/good fox players, all they have to do is play the waiting game. Zelda cannot for the life of her attempt to catch up to fox. Her running speed is about that of Peach's, but Peach has that wonderful float, and her own projectile that is useful on the stage as opposed to Zelda's projectile mostly only useful for setting up edgeguards.
Shiek is nowhere near as bad regarding her camping game. Hers requires time to set up, when in reality Shiek would be doing a better job of just simply keeping up the pressure. What makes this match so much more manageable is not only this fact, but also Zelda can use Shiek's spacing against herself. It's the same against Falco. Falco has an amazing camp game, but Falco is infinitely more manageable than Fox is. As mentioned earlier, Falco can be stopped via a smart shield game, and full hopping. This is why I managed to take a game off a good Falco, but do not see myself taking more than two stocks off a good fox in the foreseeable future.
D
Deleted member
Guest
right, zelda does better against fox because you can just assume that the fox player will suck. what an amazing stratagem.
I'll use Zelda in teams if I goddam want to.
I'll use Zelda in teams if I goddam want to.
Well gosh silly if you wanted me to elaborate then just say so
I said at LEAST if the fox sucks, meaning good foxes wont get grabbed. But neither should good shieks. But even on bad shieks cant be chain thrown...at all unlike bad foxes.
But hey were talking about GOOD shieks and foxes anyway right? Lets see here yeah ill give fox one thing if he wants to play his gayest, the lazers certainly do the trick.
BUT lasers cant kill you OR gimp you (shieks needles certainly can ***** out your recovery.) meaning the fox player has to approach you eventually to make the kill. Now since your a scary low tier that means hes gonna want to either nair (CC it), drill you into a grab or shine or somthing (smash DI) or simply approach for a grab. Now once he grabs you hes either gonna do down throw or upthrow. So guess what? Just tech the down throw and roll somewhere or whatever and smash DI the upair. Its some tricky stuff once you get down to it but at least you have the luxury of those options available.
Sheik can needlestorm you INTO a grab. Lazers cant do that. Then he gets a FREE aerial NO MATTER WHAT.
Its a no brainer that shiek and fox are zeldas worst matchups. But zeldas other half just far out shines her in every way. At least against fox you can go for sexy gimps and edgeguards (:
I said at LEAST if the fox sucks, meaning good foxes wont get grabbed. But neither should good shieks. But even on bad shieks cant be chain thrown...at all unlike bad foxes.
But hey were talking about GOOD shieks and foxes anyway right? Lets see here yeah ill give fox one thing if he wants to play his gayest, the lazers certainly do the trick.
BUT lasers cant kill you OR gimp you (shieks needles certainly can ***** out your recovery.) meaning the fox player has to approach you eventually to make the kill. Now since your a scary low tier that means hes gonna want to either nair (CC it), drill you into a grab or shine or somthing (smash DI) or simply approach for a grab. Now once he grabs you hes either gonna do down throw or upthrow. So guess what? Just tech the down throw and roll somewhere or whatever and smash DI the upair. Its some tricky stuff once you get down to it but at least you have the luxury of those options available.
Sheik can needlestorm you INTO a grab. Lazers cant do that. Then he gets a FREE aerial NO MATTER WHAT.
Its a no brainer that shiek and fox are zeldas worst matchups. But zeldas other half just far out shines her in every way. At least against fox you can go for sexy gimps and edgeguards (:
Zone
Smash Champion
Well gosh silly if you wanted me to elaborate then just say so
I said at LEAST if the fox sucks, meaning good foxes wont get grabbed. But neither should good shieks. But even on bad shieks cant be chain thrown...at all unlike bad foxes.
But hey were talking about GOOD shieks and foxes anyway right? Lets see here yeah ill give fox one thing if he wants to play his gayest, the lazers certainly do the trick.
BUT lasers cant kill you OR gimp you (shieks needles certainly can ***** out your recovery.) meaning the fox player has to approach you eventually to make the kill. Now since your a scary low tier that means hes gonna want to either nair (CC it), drill you into a grab or shine or somthing (smash DI) or simply approach for a grab. Now once he grabs you hes either gonna do down throw or upthrow. So guess what? Just tech the down throw and roll somewhere or whatever and smash DI the upair. Its some tricky stuff once you get down to it but at least you have the luxury of those options available.
Sheik can needlestorm you INTO a grab. Lazers cant do that. Then he gets a FREE aerial NO MATTER WHAT.
Its a no brainer that shiek and fox are zeldas worst matchups. But zeldas other half just far out shines her in every way. At least against fox you can go for sexy gimps and edgeguards (:
The thing is though, He DOESN'T have to eventually approach you. IF your seriously going to wait that long. He can just wait til the time runs out. If he reall wants to. So YOU are the one that will eventually have to approach him. Whether you approach him, or fake approach him to bait an attack. You are still the one who has to go to him.
As mango said, "When you fight marth, be patient. When you fight fox... GO GET THAT MUTHER F****** Cuz he's just gonna be gay with lasers" Or so someone told me. this is his advice for jiggs players, but it's the same for Zelda.
@Doggy: Thanks for your input doggy, I only tried to dash attack if I was sure he was planning to finally approach me, of if I was kinda sure it would connect after a jab. And if you noticed if I gave him too much space he started projectile spamming, So I had to stay somewhat close enough to keep him from using his projectile. Which is why I choose fountain of dreams for my counterpick against projectil *******s.
D
Deleted member
Guest
you have no idea what you're talking about in any way.Well gosh silly if you wanted me to elaborate then just say so
I said at LEAST if the fox sucks, meaning good foxes wont get grabbed. But neither should good shieks. But even on bad shieks cant be chain thrown...at all unlike bad foxes.
But hey were talking about GOOD shieks and foxes anyway right? Lets see here yeah ill give fox one thing if he wants to play his gayest, the lazers certainly do the trick.
BUT lasers cant kill you OR gimp you (shieks needles certainly can ***** out your recovery.) meaning the fox player has to approach you eventually to make the kill. Now since your a scary low tier that means hes gonna want to either nair (CC it), drill you into a grab or shine or somthing (smash DI) or simply approach for a grab. Now once he grabs you hes either gonna do down throw or upthrow. So guess what? Just tech the down throw and roll somewhere or whatever and smash DI the upair. Its some tricky stuff once you get down to it but at least you have the luxury of those options available.
Sheik can needlestorm you INTO a grab. Lazers cant do that. Then he gets a FREE aerial NO MATTER WHAT.
Its a no brainer that shiek and fox are zeldas worst matchups. But zeldas other half just far out shines her in every way. At least against fox you can go for sexy gimps and edgeguards (:
you can't CC a nair above like 40%, he'll never downthrow and upthrow to upair always works as he can just choose not to hit with the first foot and only hit with the 2nd.
needle to grab is easy to avoid vs sheik, just don't be at a 45 degree angle from her in the air (why would you be there in the first place?) when she's charging needles in the air >_>
needles should never gimp a recovery that goes as far as zelda's does.
fox can just run around and choose when to hit you with absolutely no risk to himself in any way, or just upsmash you out of shield.
you can get nice gimps on sheik anyway, just edgehog her and when she lands fall 2nd jump to the stage and backthrow her and try again. after they DI it towards the stage twice, do downthrow and run off fair instead into up B edgehog and that should KO her. Or just keep doing back throw into ledge jump kick will KO.
fox can jump around doing whatever he wants in this match with no risk in any way and he doesn't even have to shoot lasers for it to be totally unwinnable at higher level play. Then at around 70% he can do almost any move into upsmash or just upsmash anyway since zelda can't punish it easily and it will kill you on every neutral stage sans DL64.
at least when sheik ***** you, she fought you. fox should never get hit in this match, ever.
Zone
Smash Champion
I'm pretty sure, you can just see that Zelda is down-throwing and react and DI correctly. It's not really a trick thing, when she holds you on the ground for like 5 seconds before actually shooting you backwards. But then again mow I guess that's why you said "Or just keep back throwing"
@TheLake: It's way easier to dodge needles, when your ahead, than it is to dodge laser spam.
@TheLake: It's way easier to dodge needles, when your ahead, than it is to dodge laser spam.
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
D-throw to sweet spotted kick is sick vs certian characters. Shiek is no exception to this awesomeness. Too bad Zelda's grab is BALLS. God I wish she had a quicker grab. =[
Unrelated to melee: I changed my Brawl main to Zelda. =]
Unrelated to melee: I changed my Brawl main to Zelda. =]
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Haha, Brawl.
I went over to some kid's dorm and creamed them in Melee. Then we played Brawl, which he played a lot, apparently, and he beat my Marth with his Diddy Kong, so I switched to Meta Knight and proceeded to wipe the floor with him.
Best part is that I don't play Brawl ever.
Basically, you can main whomever you want in Brawl, but eventually, you're going to have to play Meta Knight.
I went over to some kid's dorm and creamed them in Melee. Then we played Brawl, which he played a lot, apparently, and he beat my Marth with his Diddy Kong, so I switched to Meta Knight and proceeded to wipe the floor with him.
Best part is that I don't play Brawl ever.
Basically, you can main whomever you want in Brawl, but eventually, you're going to have to play Meta Knight.
Na, im pretty sure there are a few more characters that you could easily play and get away with. It winds up like MvC2. MSP ***** the everlasting **** out of every team, but there are still a few viable teams to play that work.
As for Zelda in brawl, I still hold to my theory that, aside from Din's Fire and a lower upsmash, Zelda did not get good in brawl, everybody else just got worse. You can pretty much do the exact same shinanigans and they will work.
As for Zelda in brawl, I still hold to my theory that, aside from Din's Fire and a lower upsmash, Zelda did not get good in brawl, everybody else just got worse. You can pretty much do the exact same shinanigans and they will work.
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
Zelda's wondrous F/B air out of shield is much harder/impossible to do. However just about every one of her moves was buffed immensely. She also lost Light Shielding, which is crippling, since her light shield in Melee is HUGE. Light Shielding allows Zelda to withstand ALL KINDS of shield pressure. It's the one reason why I HATE grabs. I will camp her shield until it's a tiny little thing. Against less grabby opponents, I can take real advantage of her amazing shield, which I can't in brawl. I feel that in brawl, she lost most things I enjoyed about her in Melee, but due to specific buffs, if you change up her style, she's still enjoyable.
Also; in Brawl: I won't play MK in tourneys. I will play him in friendlies, since I like to do obscure things with him. I can't carry very well with neutral b, so I don't use it. I use his grabs, alot. and I use F-Air and B-air alot more than I use his other aerials. Basically I use MK in brawl like a combination of Melee and Brawl Jigglypuff.
Also; in Brawl: I won't play MK in tourneys. I will play him in friendlies, since I like to do obscure things with him. I can't carry very well with neutral b, so I don't use it. I use his grabs, alot. and I use F-Air and B-air alot more than I use his other aerials. Basically I use MK in brawl like a combination of Melee and Brawl Jigglypuff.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
What about Zelda's uair in Brawl? That's pretty strong.
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
That's one of her buffed moves. Pretty much all of her attacks got buffed, but she lost several of her good strategies.
D
Deleted member
Guest
while blue. don't pick some inferior color.
I'm tellin ya. Pink Zelda. That's what's hot in the streets.
Stratford
Smash Champion
Blue Zelda's bair is stronger.
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
Blue is superior to any other color in every way possible.
The only color that could potentially surpass standard blue, would be Periwinkle, which is simply the best shade of blue.
The only color that could potentially surpass standard blue, would be Periwinkle, which is simply the best shade of blue.
so, how bad is zelda in teams, really?
because it seems like she isn't as bad as people would make her out to be. she can get quick kills with her kicks, and with some good DI she can hold on to a stock for a pretty long time. just looking for some opinions here
because it seems like she isn't as bad as people would make her out to be. she can get quick kills with her kicks, and with some good DI she can hold on to a stock for a pretty long time. just looking for some opinions here
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
I hate that logic. No, she can't get quick kills with her kicks because they have to have damage on them first. Quick kills are like shinespikes or Rests. Kicks won't kill realistically until ~100%, depending on the character. And Zelda does not rack up damage fast.
Also, she doesn't move around fast enough to really be viable in teams, but that's just my opinion.
Also, she doesn't move around fast enough to really be viable in teams, but that's just my opinion.
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