I played Brawl

[xYz]

sheild grab will be the new thing.

 

[The Alpha Gundam]

Falco got fun cancel hence FL's outrage *runs*

 

[NES n00b]

Dont Bash the game i mean, in melee i didnt even know about wave dashing and L-canceling And i still had loads of fun with it.
Brawl is gonna be soo much better than melee, forget about glitches and oyur wavedashes its 7 years onwards now think of the future not the past.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion...

 

[captain smashie01]

also, i think the person who said mindgames have been taken out may have JOKING.

right, thats it, im going to watch 3 episodes of lost. season 4 starts tomorrow!

 

[NES n00b]

Of course the mindgames thing was a joke.

 

[Mankosuki]

right, thats it, im going to watch 3 episodes of lost. season 4 starts tomorrow!

hate to break it to ya, but it started Thursday.

 

[Tom]

NES n00b is right, the Regional Zones are usually used for tournament discussion, so please don't talk down to us by saying "your glitches are dumb" or whatever you said.

Although NES n00b, this isn't tournament discussion. This is Regional discussion, and the topic is just called "I played Brawl." So although we don't need their coming in here and saying we play the game wrong, its not out of place.

also

I agreed with everything you said except for this:

If anyone even cares, I will be playing the game at smashfests near me but I won't travel until the game gets more interesting if ever. =\

Thats just dumb. =/ of course the game is going to get more interesting. How many of us have played the game? Of those who have, how long have they played it, and aren't they playing it from scratch? With no advanced techniques discovered or anything. Give it time, friend, and it will be interesting.

 

[Tom]

double post to prove that the atl south mods suck:

http://www.wifiwars.com/ check out the videos at that website, NESbuddy, and pleeeaaase tell me that you see potential there. Those are mainly players from TX who have a japanese wii, and they have been playing for only one or two DAYS!

trust me, if i have to drive to your house in a year and show you that there are reasons to travel, i will. they took out a lot of fun stuff in brawl, but i have a lot of faith that we will discover just as much.

RANTA TAN TAN DANCE

 

[NES n00b]

Fun stuff

Yeah, I saw these. I will play for awhile now. This gets me excited. That combined with another video has rekindeled my faith. I will be going to tournies. Hell yeahz.

It will be a more spacing and hit and run combo thing, but it will still be fun. ^_^

 

[Zoro]

snake is nastee

 

[1-up]

double post to prove that the atl south mods suck:

http://www.wifiwars.com/ check out the videos at that website, NESbuddy, and pleeeaaase tell me that you see potential there. Those are mainly players from TX who have a japanese wii, and they have been playing for only one or two DAYS!

trust me, if i have to drive to your house in a year and show you that there are reasons to travel, i will. they took out a lot of fun stuff in brawl, but i have a lot of faith that we will discover just as much.

RANTA TAN TAN DANCE

see the problem with those videos is that they are still playing brawl as if it was melee. thats all fine when it comes to making it look like your good on video but the fact of the matter is this game plays nothing like brawl and it mark my words WILL NOT be played(good) in the fashion portrayed in those videos. anyone playing that way would get owned by someone playing the way a n00b would play in melee(which is the new way to play good).


sorry theres no way around it... you can not belive me if you want and say "oh just wait the game has only been out for x amount of days it will be broken blah blah" nope the game is about as deep as a Bring It On sequel, and wait until you play it... there is NO excuse for how down right bad the game is. I ACTUALLY GOT BORED ON THE FIRST DAY!! everything that made melee good they took out and made it heaven for the n00bs who got destroyed in melee.

i could go on and on about why the game is so terrible but i have to go to work. ill continue my rant later.

 

[?!?]

yo keep goiong on its interesting lol. so is it really that bad? or are you just jk like doodah was?

 

[Tom]

sorry theres no way around it... you can not belive me if you want and say "oh just wait the game has only been out for x amount of days it will be broken blah blah" nope the game is about as deep as a Bring It On sequel, and wait until you play it... there is NO excuse for how down right bad the game is. I ACTUALLY GOT BORED ON THE FIRST DAY!! everything that made melee good they took out and made it heaven for the n00bs who got destroyed in melee.

well, you've played it and i havent, so you would know. but thats no way to have a discussion -- "your response will be x, and the answer is no."

see the problem with those videos is that they are still playing brawl as if it was melee. thats all fine when it comes to making it look like your good on video but the fact of the matter is this game plays nothing like brawl and it mark my words WILL NOT be played(good) in the fashion portrayed in those videos. anyone playing that way would get owned by someone playing the way a n00b would play in melee(which is the new way to play good).

I completely understand what you're saying, that those guys are both playing brawl like melee was played, so its not a real representation of how the game is. Then you said that, in brawl, the way n00bs play in melee is much better than the way pros play in melee. But that is just begging the question; we don't know how pros will play brawl. If you are going to draw the line that the newb way is better than the pro way, then its obviously not the pro way anymore. I do think that we will find new tactics to separate ourselves from them.

Well, I do *hope* that we will. But like I said, I understand what you're saying, and hell, you're probably right because you've played the **** game.

 

[Renth]

**** brawl, melees the perfect game. The can remake melee the way it is throw more stages and characters in it that would be fine. But they completely noobified it so **** it

 

[SheerMadness]

Brawl looks terrible to me. From the videos I've seen the game has absolutely 0 combo ability, its basically just a big hit and run noob fest. They also took out all the significant Advanced Techniques which added depth to the game and made it more fun. They've ruined smash IMO.

 

[?!?]

I hope brawl doesnt suck

 

[Mcscruff]

think on the bright side. if brawl sucks, we can all just go back to melee. lol

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I'm in amazing anticipation of this game.

It's going from "lol, muscle memory" (which is to say, sharply curved towards technical skill) to zone-based defensive play, and I'm quite happy about that. A person could literally close their eyes for some comboes and be able to pull it off in Melee.

The system has been reworked, and mind-reading is going to be a lot more prominent, I bet. That's how it should be; at least, that's what I care about, since that's what my strategy is in Melee, and it's hard to make it work because of how fast-paced this game is.

Also, wavedashing wasn't discovered days after Melee's release; advanced techniques will show themselves in time. Give it a break, and don't knock it if you haven't had the full experience.

 

[Zoro]

I like it some of the newer videos with competitive melee players are alot more fast paced and look funner.


I dont think we will have a competetive scene for brawl like we had for melee but like you said melee will always be here. I think brawl will definitely be fun tho.

 

[xYz]

keitaro from TSA crew plays a mean falco. thats the only character i have seen that makes the game look fun.

I do like falcon's added goodies, like his raptor boost recovery , and his up b is alot better now.

downside, no l-canceling= no combos, and he's slower.

 

[Zoro]

I like Ike for some reason

 

[ama(m/t)]

in my experience, brawl as a competitive game is severely limited
at least, about 95% of the things that set apart skilled players from noobz in melee hav been removed from brawl
comboes have been removed
my biggest gripe:
you can't choose your kill method in this game.
if the move you choose wasn't programmed to be a kill move, it will not kill.
kill moves kill really nicely, but moves that are not kill moves(you will recognize them immediately) straight up will not kill ever. not even in super sudden death.
so it gets kinda boring cause there no ways to innovate kill method with your character, it's pretty much predetermined because edgeguarding is impossible and so the only way to kill is to use an attack from onstage, and the only moves onstage that kill are the ones which are designated kill moves(you will recognize them immideiately when using them cause they're the only moves w/ real knockback that actually increases more than a miniscule amount when damage increases).

 

[darkshy]

that's disappointing....Would you say no hope or it's just something you don't like?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

in my experience, brawl as a competitive game is severely limited
at least, about 95% of the things that set apart skilled players from noobz in melee hav been removed from brawl
comboes have been removed
my biggest gripe:
you can't choose your kill method in this game.
if the move you choose wasn't programmed to be a kill move, it will not kill.
kill moves kill really nicely, but moves that are not kill moves(you will recognize them immediately) straight up will not kill ever. not even in super sudden death.
so it gets kinda boring cause there no ways to innovate kill method with your character, it's pretty much predetermined because edgeguarding is impossible and so the only way to kill is to use an attack from onstage, and the only moves onstage that kill are the ones which are designated kill moves(you will recognize them immideiately when using them cause they're the only moves w/ real knockback that actually increases more than a miniscule amount when damage increases).

I haven't heard that from anyone. I can't imagine edgeguarding being impossible.

 

[dguy6789]

Saying that edge guarding is impossible is just as silly as saying mindgames were removed.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Saying that edge guarding is impossible is just as silly as saying mindgames were removed.

Agreed; good stuff.

 

[nice1]

there are a few vids with good edge guarding but majority of the vids i watch they don't edge guard.

 

[Gerbil]

I like the new concept of edgeguarding. It focuses more on aerial combat rather than ground based counter actions. I watched one of the videos with the "upper level players" in it, and one of the stocks was an epic air battle off the side between Falco and Falcon (If I find the vid again, I'll show it). I mean, the airdodge concept is awesome, especially since you can parry in mid-air now. The floatiness allows for more airtime.

It's a completely new game, and I think it will be great regardless of what has and hasn't been removed. Melee was one game, Brawl is another.

 

[ama(m/t)]

well I mean you guys can hope, but
even if i'm not the best, I'm still a competitive player and so i believe my point of view is valid.
edge guarding is a lot more difficult, or a lot different than it was in melee. in brawl, most characters have recovery moves that autosweetspot to the ledge as soon as they are in range. on top of that, most characters recover vertically. exceptions are like donkey kong and stuff, but for the most part people recover all the way from the bottom.

the bottom is pretty safe from edgeguarding, as most of you melee players know.
autosweetspotting means that -as soon as- a character gets in range of the ledge, he autograbs it and immediately receives the associated invincibility frames.
This means that if you want to edgeguard, the only way to do it is to ledgehog since you can't very well go all the way down there and hit someone(well maybe you can, but it's kinda scary to me still as someone who plays melee and 64 mainly). for people recovering horizontally, you can strike them out, but you have to time your attack really well.

even for a character with good range, the fact that the game gives you invincibility on the ledge as soon as it's possible makes the guarding a lot more difficult for humans(you're basically competing with the mechanics of the game, rather than the mindgames of the opponent).
the prime way to edgeguard is to do it jigglypuff style, hopping off after them when you launch them, and preventing the terrible ledge situation from ever happening.
This, too, is difficult because of how floaty everyone is. When you launch someone off the stage, they are most likely up and to the left or up and to the right, towards a corner, right?
Well since this game is so floaty, you will hit them so hard and they will be up there so long that there is no chance AT ALL that you will ever reach them before they get out of hitstun. If they are no good at the game, then they will start recovering to the stage immediately, in which case you can jump out and hit them. if they're smarter, they'll drop below the stage first(standard practice for most melee characters) in which case you have to go out and far down to try to hit them, or wait for them to come back to the stage in which case you are again battling against the edgelatch mechanic.

mind games are not removed, but a lot of the staples of melee's mindgaming(dash dancing and wavedashing for positioning, for example) have been removed.
Like reflex says, this game is mainly defensive zoning. everyone's offense in this game sucks because you pretty much don't have options on the offense.

if you are approaching, and you want to mess up their timing by dash dancing or wavedashing backwards, no dice. the only way to vary the timing would be to jump, and that will be super clearly obvious given how floaty characters are and you will stay in the air forever(probably even limiting your own options). your other option is to turn around, in which case you will have to complete the full turning around animation which will make it super obvious what you're doing, or you can just stop in place and that will also be obvious since will need to stop and go. That doesn't sound so bad, but it's just so slow and clumsy in brawl that anyone used to the speed of melee will be able to defend against you on instinct or reflex only.

I guess you could approach by walking and then stopping to avoid the pitfalls of running, but that's about it.

 

[ama(m/t)]

I like the new concept of edgeguarding. It focuses more on aerial combat rather than ground based counter actions. I watched one of the videos with the "upper level players" in it, and one of the stocks was an epic air battle off the side between Falco and Falcon (If I find the vid again, I'll show it). I mean, the airdodge concept is awesome, especially since you can parry in mid-air now. The floatiness allows for more airtime.

It's a completely new game, and I think it will be great regardless of what has and hasn't been removed. Melee was one game, Brawl is another.

This sounds promising to me, but what I complained about(kill moves vs. non kill moves) still is valid. I didn't even get to that in the block of text above.

 

[Gerbil]

While I agree with you on the kill moves, we have got to realize that Melee did it too. Check this:

In Melee, we also had set kill moves. If you sit and think about it, look at what chars use what to always get a KO. Let's not use Fox/Falco due to their numerous examples, but instead let's take a general example. We always had moves that could KO, and moves that could knock chars off the stage. When we couldn't get the KO, we would resort to edgeguarding once we used the moves that don't KO, to get the opponent off the stage.

So let's use.... Captain Falcon. We all know the knee is a powerful move. Hell, it's probably the majority of every CF's kills. He can also kill with all of his smash attacks, however these arn't applied nearly as much as the knee. So for sake of example, we'll say Falcon has 1 set-kill move in Melee. How does Falcon win? Falcon edgeguards. It's that simple.

My point? In Brawl, we can set up the same situation. Force the enmy off the stage rather than focusing on a straight KO. THen we can come in with an edgeguard strat in midair.

Now as you said, most people would be smart to go below, due to the fact that most recoveries are more vertical this time around.

Being as that is, your own character will most likely have that vertical recovery. Jumping off the stage and going really low, and given the new ledge grab system, will be much more possible than it ever was in Melee.

So for that factor, I think we should wait for the game and experiment with it more for ourselves for a while.

 

[C@sH Mooney]

think on the bright side. if brawl sucks, we can all just go back to melee. lol

**** yeah ssbm

 

[?!?]

brawl sucks!!!

 

[RyuDeathstrike]

Hmm...

I remember when Melee came out, and it was just an improvement to the fun that was present in SSB64. Brawl seems to be the same...
How long did it take for Melee to get real competitive with adv. techs and tactics?

I'll give Brawl a chance. You should atleast go to a few Brawl tourneys after it's release and see if there aren't any new adv. tactics.

Just my 2 cents... take it or leave it.

 

[ama(m/t)]

While I agree with you on the kill moves, we have got to realize that Melee did it too. Check this:

In Melee, we also had set kill moves. If you sit and think about it, look at what chars use what to always get a KO. Let's not use Fox/Falco due to their numerous examples, but instead let's take a general example. We always had moves that could KO, and moves that could knock chars off the stage. When we couldn't get the KO, we would resort to edgeguarding once we used the moves that don't KO, to get the opponent off the stage.

So let's use.... Captain Falcon. We all know the knee is a powerful move. Hell, it's probably the majority of every CF's kills. He can also kill with all of his smash attacks, however these arn't applied nearly as much as the knee. So for sake of example, we'll say Falcon has 1 set-kill move in Melee. How does Falcon win? Falcon edgeguards. It's that simple.

My point? In Brawl, we can set up the same situation. Force the enmy off the stage rather than focusing on a straight KO. THen we can come in with an edgeguard strat in midair.

Now as you said, most people would be smart to go below, due to the fact that most recoveries are more vertical this time around.

Being as that is, your own character will most likely have that vertical recovery. Jumping off the stage and going really low, and given the new ledge grab system, will be much more possible than it ever was in Melee.

So for that factor, I think we should wait for the game and experiment with it more for ourselves for a while.

yes, the game has a lot of experimenting and finding out in store for it, but anyway the difference is a lot more extreme in brawl.
in melee, in Super sudden death, you can use just about any attack and it will instantly kill just about. in this game, even in super sudden death ONLY your designated knockback moves will kill.

as for edgeguarding in midair battle, sure. but in this game, no one has aerial mobility except maybe jigglypuff and metanight. a lot of characters can go really far in the air, but they can't maneuver around and fight.

as for dropping below and fighting, yeah I guess. but it's not like they drop far below the stage enough that they won't be able to access ledge-latch invincibility in about a second, which makes your window of opportunity extremely small. but whatever about that.

 

[1-up]

Lambchops i am not joking.. sadley. ask synikal and swen who were both at zero ping tonight.. both of them were defending the game at first but by the end of the night our opinions were one.

 

[ninjitsian]

I wouldn't worry too much. Even though most of melees advanced techs were removed, sakurai stated there will be new ones. Smash bros will always be competitive period. Like someone also stated melee is one game, this is another.

 

[captain smashie01]

hate to break it to ya, but it started Thursday.

yeah, but tv's always behind in britain

also, if brawl does suck we should go back to ssb64

 

[Lecto2007]

I doubt brawl will suck anyways.

i gotta try it myself................whenever it gets released in UK

 

[Gerbil]

Hmm...

I remember when Melee came out, and it was just an improvement to the fun that was present in SSB64. Brawl seems to be the same...
How long did it take for Melee to get real competitive with adv. techs and tactics?

I'll give Brawl a chance. You should atleast go to a few Brawl tourneys after it's release and see if there aren't any new adv. tactics.

Just my 2 cents... take it or leave it.

Yes. I love this post. (Kinda)

Wes showed me these vids, and found them very interesting.

This is Melee in like.... 2001 I think. Maybe 2002, I'm not sure. You'll recognize the players, I mean, how couldn't you?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=O-xSNzYqHGg

Now, take a look at this footage from Gameover in 2004. Again, you'll know the players.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iXKkoF_MHQ4

Now this next vid, also in 2004 (late 2003?) I think if I remember correctly. This guy, Tetsuya, was one of the few that defined Melee in terms of how we play it today. This vid is more to what we are familiar with today; nearly 4 years after the video was recorded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P5JMWyVwbk


The point of showing these is how far we have come since Melee first released. Given the general trend, it may take us a long time to figure out how Brawl will be played. In fact, we shouldn't be playing Brawl as if it were Melee, but rather play Brawl as if it were.... Brawl lol. A new game. Forget the majority of the old concepts, create new ones, adapt, and enjoy.

@Tong: Yes I too noticed that with sudden death. But sudden death isn't something we will normally be worrying about in tourny play. As far as air mobility, I think we should wait for ourselves to get involved in the game hands on more deeply. This is another one of those points I will wait for myself to have the game in order to address it. The dropping below thing will probably take time, and no doubt, skill to pull it off. But it is a means and method of getting things done. ^.^

My final point. Let's give it some time. As Wes stated in a convo I had with him.

"The first 2 years of Melee didn't mean ****."

And it may very well be that way for Brawl too.