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I need help with ________ matchup!

Sonic The Hedgedawg

Smash Hero
Joined
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I figured, rhather than have about a hundred thousand individual "help me with this matchup against so and so" treads running around, we could just have one here. Just chaeck it often girls and boys ^_^.

Post any troubles you are having here. One of our skilled technicians will assist you at their earliest possible conveninece. Whole you are waiting for a response, feel free to browse around and read other responses to Zeldas in need. Just like you!

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All right. Have fun out there everybody and, remember, be kind, be courteous and be helpful. Just don't be afraid to ask. This thread is nothing without you people.

NOTE: Zelda as well as Zelda+Shiek mains will be accepted here.

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Mega-Japan

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I don't know if they'll be of much use but these are the General tips from faq, feel free to add, suggest or change anything to may apply accordingly.

-----------------------------\
5.1) Bowser:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Either

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Easy
Ordinary Bowser players are usually no match for either Zelda or
Sheik. That's what I used to think until I found myself with a
really deadly Bowser pro. Just never allow them to do their
kamikaze move on you (you know, the side special...). Use Zelda's
Din's Fire or Sheik Needles to build damage from far away and just
spot dodge their smashes follow by one of your smashes, that's
usually easy to do. Zelda's Naryu's Love is able to reflect or at
least cancel Bowser's Fire Breath in case your opponent decides
to play with that. As with most large characters, Zelda is able
to easily land a Lightning Kick on Bowser.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Easy
Sheik's Speed will overwhelm most Bowsers but they are still not
to be taken lightly. Sheik is mainly a short-range character, the
distance where most Bowsers would attempt a DSmash, short-hop a DAir
or even short-hop their Flying Slam. Great Bowser will jump over
you like 4 times in a row trying to grab you or hit you with aerials,
during this time they are hard to hit so I recommend using Vanish as
this will probably hit the turtle flying above you. Tactics against
Bowsers are simple, really, so just hit him normally and use Vanish or
USmash for finisher.


-----------------------------\
5.2) Captain Falcon:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Easy
After his huge nerfing operation, most characters are good against
him, if played correctly of course. There is nothing to really fear
here other then a random Falcon Punch coming out of nowhere and
knocking you out. Just use your usual smashes and specials to get
the job done. A dodging game is best against him as his moves are
fast yet predictable. Also, watch out for random Knees as they
may KO you once you have a few digits of damage on your counter.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
Really good Falcons will know how to use his Falcon Punch wisely,
and I am telling you now, if that thing hits you when you have anything
over 30% when as Sheik, just do not bother, even with DI this will
send you flying to no return and Sheik's not-so-good recovery does not
help at all. He is still very manageable as an opponent though so
play him casually. Also, try not to go after him when edge guarding,
his Raptor Boost's spike effect will have you done for.


-----------------------------\
5.3) Diddy Kong:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
Peanuts and Bananas can get REALLY annoying, BUT guess what? You
can use that annoyance against that annoying monkey. Naryu's Love
seems to be the key against the ape, while it is not that awesome
at reflecting peanuts (and really, nothing is...), it can turn
annoying banana peels into friendly ones. Once your reflect the
banana peels when they're thrown at you, not only do they make
your opponent fall on his apy butt but also does absolutely
nothing to you. The rest is just like fighting any character,
smash, special, smash, good bye...

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
While Sheik is still faster than the chimpanzee, she can still
be easily tricked into his mind games, banana peels included.
He is better to deal with at close range, and Sheik is pretty
good at that. Grabs, Dash Attacks and Aerials work pretty good
against him as well, try not to trip on the peels as that can
decide the fate of the battle. If the Diddy is good at mind games,
yours must surpass his, do not let peanuts scare you.


-----------------------------\
5.4) Donkey Kong:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
While some people really underrate Donkey Kong, he is surprisingly
a very good character. He is not as slow as someone like Ganondorf
(and be honest, who is?) and he hits hard, and I mean HARD! All of
his smashes are to fear. Watch out for the obvious combo of Head butt
followed by a charged Giant Punch, this can be super devastating
to the light Zelda/Sheik. As with most big slow characters, just roll
away or shoot projectiles at it to get the job done. Zelda's smashes
play a big roll here as she's good at landing them on such characters.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
Believe it or not, even with Sheik's large difference in speed,
Donkey Kong is still a very tough opponent, if you have played
Donkey Kong pros (Bum anyone?) then I am sure you have seen how
deadly they can be against fast characters. His BAir kick is a move
used very often by the Kong, so try to avoid it as that can build
up quite the damage. As if that is not enough, his Spinning Kong
move may be annoying at times and the damage it builds up is
crazy, so shield-grab it whenever possible.


-----------------------------\
5.5) Falco:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Easy
Piece of cake... You know, for some reason I used to be afraid of
the space animals, maybe because those Fox pros left some trauma
in me back in Melee, but now, they're not that great and can be
dealt with fairly, especially when using Zelda. If he's a camper,
you are in luck, Zelda is a camper hunter. When Falco starts
spamming his Blaster, just use Naryu's Love to reflect the love
back at him. Only thing to watch out is the annoying reflector,
not because he will reflect your stuff but because it's
knockback is just plain annoying, not such a big deal though.
Another good thing is that Zelda's floaty ability prevents her from
being stuck in a chaingrab, this is good so you don't have to worry
of being gimped so often. Just jump whenever you see he DThrows you.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Hard
Sheik has a lot tougher trouble dealing with the blue bird than
Zelda would. First off, Sheik is fast and agile, but not floaty and
this makes her a target for chain grabbing for the first few
hits. Another thing is that she cannot reflect the lasers making
her an easy target for yet another annoying tactic, the laser lock.
So what to do? Just be fast, very fast and unpredictable. Use reverse
grabs and all techniques you can think of on him. Aerials, lots of
aerials and keep him at close range at all cost while avoiding his
grab and Reflector. Watch out at the edge when the intend to spike
you with a DAir as this could end the match right on the spot.


-----------------------------\
5.6) Fox:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Either

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
Just keep this mammal at close range, even if you keep reflecting
his Blaster, not only it might not reach back at him but he would
just keep shooting you... Follow him at all times and smash him
whenever possible. If this was Melee you would probably stand no
chance, but this is Brawl, Mr. McCloud isn't the Lion King anymore.
Also, watch out for his annoying UTilt, try to DI out of it and
counter with a DSmash or Naryu's Love.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
Similar tactics applied with Zelda also work with Sheik. Try to keep
him at close range so that Fox does not camp half the match shooting
lasers at you. His UTilt is still annoying and will be likely followed
by an USmash, try to DI or jump out of it. Watch out for the obvious
combo of DAir followed by DSmash, if you have high damage, this is likely
to finish you off, but if you hold down your DI and use the chain in the
direction of the ledge at the exact time when he DSmashes you, you will
survive no matter how hard the hit.


-----------------------------\
5.7) Ganondorf:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Easy
Din's Fire, Din's Fire, Din's Fire! Just keep this very dark fellow
away from you. Nearly all his attacks can destroy Zelda/Sheik within
a hit or two. If he manages to get close to you just use Naryu's Love
or simply roll out of the way. Watch out for his Warlock Punch,
have to hate that thing, thankfully it doesn't hit very often...
Ganondorf is a fellow you must like to mess with, nearly anything hits
him. Always watch out for his guard-breaking Flame Choke, if he
predicts your move after it, this could decide the fate of the match.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
Sheik can still do pretty well against the Ganon, there's really nothing
he can do about Sheik's Needle Storm but block, dodge or jump, which
may give you the chance to rush towards him, grab and follow up a combo
as he is an easy target for that. Aerials work pretty well on him as
he's a large target and he is usually a ground player. Still watch out
for his deadly Thunder Stomp and Wizard's Foot, both can rack up a lot
of damage and have very high KO potential as pretty much all of his
moves. Also, keep in mind that when Ganondorf is doing the Warlock
Punch, the hit is in the punch itself, meaning it could easily be
crouched with Sheik.


-----------------------------\
5.8) Ice Climbers:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Easy
Separate them, as simple as that, otherwise you will be fighting
them all they. Watch out for their Ice Shots as they cannot be
reflected with Naryu's Love so try to jump over them and counter
with Din's Fire. It is also relatively easy to appear into either
of them with Farore's Wind and dealing damage, same with Din's Fire.
These guys guys are vulnerable to nearly anything so just have them
away from each other and you will have the easiest fight yet. Also,
watch out for their annoying chaingrabs, these can follow up with
devastating attacks Ice Climbers mainers have mastered and apply
them on you through out the entire battle, so just dodge their grabs
and follow up with a FSmash.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Hard
As said above, Ice Climbers experts will have dozens of chaingrabbing
combinations, whether they have Nana doing a DAir after a DThrow or
a simple chaingrab, it is all unexpected what they will do next.
These two fellow can do the unpredictable. You may try to rush into
them but you may have a hard time doing so due to their Ice Shots or
Squall Hammer attack which is almost as good as Donkey Kong's Spinning
Kong. You may go ahead and try and Needle Storm them or catch them in
your FTilt lock, but just watch out as you may catch one, the other
may hardly punish you.


-----------------------------\
5.9) Ike:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Sheik

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
Ike is one annoying fellow no matter who you use. Even though Sheik
may be a wiser choice for fighting Ike, I still think Zelda does
surprisingly well against him, as attacking him close-range with Sheik
is not the brightest of all ideas in my opinion. Watch out for his
Quick Draw as Ike players use it very constantly, and try to blow a
Din's Fire right where they appear. Is not hard really, hard will be
if he manages to hit you with one of his FSmashes.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Easy
Most would still agree that Sheik is a better match up against Ike for
several reasons. First, the FTilt lock works like a charm against him,
as he is a tall character with the perfect weight. Because of the lag
within most of his moves, Sheik's quick ground attacks can punish him
from every angle. His not-so-fast running speed can also allow Sheik
to send Needle Storms at him and can work very effectively. Have a few
hits on him and do a USmash for a finisher, it usually works pretty well.


-----------------------------\
5.10) Jigglypuff:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Sheik

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
Never pick an air fight with a Jigglypuff player, you will lose. Not
only is hard to hit that pink marshmallow but her midair attacks are
quite good, this is known as "The Wall of Pain". May be very annoying
if you just do not know what to do while you are receiving hit after
hit by him. Her FSmash is also surprisingly good, better than Kirby's.
Do not worry about her specials as most of them are not really good
EXCEPT for her rollout which is rigged O.O'. It goes about as fast as
Sonic's running speed, can go back and forward, significantly decreases
shield, it is very hard to dodge and a very HUGE knockback >_>. It can
however easily be stopped but projectiles, but Zelda's Din's Fire will
not be able to keep up so if possible, try to jump or grab a ledge
when you see it coming.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
When you have been caught in the wall of pain, all you want, in that
case, is keep her away from you, needles is a good strategy and Sheik's
chain might actually be useful. Sheik's aerial are also pretty good to
fight back, and even her Vanish may easily get a hit. If you see the
Rollout coming (that is, IF you see it coming...), use Needles, but
FAST, even if it is a single Needle to break the round thing from its
rolling move, because if it hits you, it may be it for you. Watch out
not getting put to sleep by her Sing and followed up by a Rest, as
good Jigglys actually manage to do that often, I do not know how but
they do...


-----------------------------\
5.11) King Dedede:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Easy
While both Zelda and Sheik do fairly well against King Dedede, Zelda
is significantly a better match up against him any day, anywhere.
As Ganondorf, just keep this fat fellow away from you. You certainly
do not want to test whether his FSmash is the strongest in the game
or not. While his Waddle buddies may be effective against characters
like Link and whatnot, they are little to nothing against super Zelda,
as Din's Fire can easily pass through them and strike the penguin.
Because of Zelda's "floatyness", King Dedede's chaingrabs will usually
fail, though watch out, because as Donkey, the love doing that BAir
kick. And do not forget the Jet Hammer, it kills, remember that o.o'.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
By all means, please do not be one of those people who go into Dedede's
mouth when chasing after him while trying to edge guard... Unlike Zelda's
strategy in this match up, try to be close to the King or you will
have Waddle nightmares, as they block your Needles and that is all you
have for long range attacks. Lock the penguin in the FTilt if possible
and follow by hitting him with the tip of your USmash, you just cannot
miss. Most of Dedede's ground moves have ending lag, whenever you see
an opening, use that chance to grab him and follow up with a deadly
combo.


-----------------------------\
5.12) Kirby:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
Last time I underestimated this walking pink jelly I ended up paying
quite a large debt. Kirby's most annoying attack however has to
be his Final Cutter, even if you do manage to reflect the little
projectile it releases, it won't get back to him, get to close and
he will slice your head like bread. I usually have a hard time against
good Kirbys, but that is probably just me. Watch out for his DAir >
FSmash combo of his, it can be quite deadly. Din's Fire works fairly
well on him, and so does Farore's Wind if used as an offensive move.
Nothing much I can say as he's pretty hard to hit. Also, watch out
for his Stone move when trying to KO him upwards with an UAir, I
have committed that mistake countless times...

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Hard
First, do not let him suck you up, you do not want your
super needles to fall into the wrong hands. Second, roll or spot dodge
his hammer, fail and it will send you flying quite the distance,
a good KO move against you. They will often run towards you and do
either the Hammer or DAir > FSmash combo. At this point, either do a
DSmash before he gets to hit you, Vanish or simply dodge and counter.
You may also try dodge whenever he uses the Air Cutter, its ending
lag allows you to punish him severely after it is executed.


-----------------------------\
5.13) Link:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Sheik

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
My number one main on Melee, while I do not find him as good as back
in the Cube days, he is still quite powerful. His smashes can well KO
Zelda or Sheik at about 40% so watch out. Reflect his lightning-speed
arrows right back at him, same with his Gale Boomerang follow up by
Din's Fire. Play carefully and he's all yours. Link has the advantage
of being a strong close-range character and also one of the best long
range ones. I would suggest close-range combat as half of his arsenal
will not be at hand. He is also a character you can juggle with, a few
smashes and even an easy meteor target. Just watch out for his deadly
DAir when trying to KO him from below.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
I find Sheik to be a better match up against him for simple reasons,
combo target. Like Ike, Link is a combo hot spot for having the perfect
weight and height. Your aerials are superior to his to use them wisely.
Focus on close-range, use FTilt lock and moves like Vanish for finishers.
If you manage to block his Spin Attack, rush and grab him and he is
entirely vulnerable if the hit fails. Do DThrow, UAir and follow your
combo from there. Try to be unpredictable, use reverse grabbing and dash
attacks when less expected.


-----------------------------\
5.14) Lucario:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
This Anubis dog usually does not really stand a chance against Zelda,
unless the skill difference between players is too much. He is part
steel so Din's Fire is super effective against him... right? Um...
Too bad Brawl does not follow much logic. Aura Sphere is one of the
easiest attacks to reflect, throw it back at him and adios. The
rest of his attacks are not that powerful, but they have huge range
and KO power once you are at high damage, so just kill him fast
while at low percentage or else you will have some trouble due
to his masochist "more damage, more strength" tactic. Most Lucarios
also tend to edge-guard by throwing Aura Spheres into the air trying
to hit you as you come back, avoid this at all cost, they hurt.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Hard
Fighting the Pogeyman as Sheik can be pretty challenging, after all,
Needles are not very effective against Steel-type pogeymanz, oh wait...
So yeah, you may have lots of trouble fighting the thing, he is a much
faster slider than Sheik would ever be, so try to attack him and he will
usually roll behind you, follow with a DSmash, Force Palm or a grab.
Speaking of Force Palm, watch out for his Force Palm chain and his
A, A, Force Palm combo, as most Lucarios do both tactics pretty often.
Whenever Lucario attempts to counter you with Double Team, grab him as
this is not countered by Double Team and do your stuff from there.


-----------------------------\
5.15) Lucas:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Sheik

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Hard
I hate these psychic wannabes, the PK Barrage is annoying as they come.
What to do? You can see this attack coming from a mile away so simple
roll out of the way or something. PK Fire probably goes too fast for
you to reflect so simply dodge it and get back at him. Spamming
Din's Fire is a BAD idea! You will just end up bringing him back
to life as he draws his PSI Magnet. Be careful with his deadly USmash,
as it has insane knockback and inflicts high damage, otherwise, just
beat him up while at close range with regular attacks.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
Thankfully Sheik's Needles are not made of magic, or are they? We can
assume they are not as Lucas is unable to absorb them with his PSI
Magnet, but um... wait... but can reflect them? Sure he can, by using
his little stick as a bat Lucas can reflect any projectile throwing
at him as well. Pretty tough, eh? Try to keep him at very close range
preventing him from using his little PK Stuff... Watch out for all of
his aerial, they have very good range and damage so try to keep him
grounded.


-----------------------------\
5.16) Luigi:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
Luigi is a pimp, and by pimp I mean his is a tough fellow. His aerials
are probably the fastest zero-lag in the game, meaning they are really
good and that is what most Luigi mainers are all about, aerials. He can
do four FAir in a single jump, try doing that with any other character.
His ground game is not bad either, his FSmash is crazy strong and let's
not even talk about his Super Jump Punch. Do not bother reflecting his
Fireballs unless you are really close to him as its range is surprisingly
lame for the power it has... What you should try and do though is do
your smashes before he does, shield-grab him whenever a move fails as
he has some ending lag on them. As for when he is in the air, try to
roll away or USmash him, whatever the case, never do a move with high
ending lag (like Farore's Wind or Naryu's Love) unless you are sure
you will hit or else you will get a big Super Jump Punch in the face
ending the match on the spot.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Hard
Luigi has a lot of recovery options so getting rid of him is quite a
pain. Watch out for his Green Missile whenever you try to edge guard
Luigis tend to use either that or the Luigi Cyclone as primary recovery
options and not his Super Jump Punch. Unlike Mario, Luigi has no cape
so you are free to throw dozens of needles at him whenever he is on
ground, the air is what will likely become your problem. Try to use
Sheik's standard attacks to build up damage until an opportunity
arises and you are able to land a free USmash or Vanish on him to
do the finishing blow.


-----------------------------\
5.17) Mario:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
Good Marios tend to use the Cape very often, this allows Mario to
prevent damage from moves like Din's Fire and the likes, however,
if timed wrong by the slightest second and the move will still hit.
I am telling you now though, DO NOT attempt to use Din's Fire while
Mario's F.L.U.D.D., is fully charged, at least nowhere near an edge,
because Mario will pretty much say "screw the fire, you are going
down" and just laugh while watching you fall helplessly with no
way of recovering. His Fireballs can be tricky but also predictable
so simply return them with Naryu's Love and follow with a DSmash
if he is close to you or Dash Attack or grab if he is taking his
distance.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Hard
Standard tilts and smashes are best against Mario, really, his Cape
prevents nearly anything from touching him, while also inflicting
damage and turning you around, OMG... In fact, the Cape does 8%,
surprisingly one of his strongest moves besides smashes... F3aR du
CapeZ D=. Anyways, Needles will not be of much use due to the fact
that they can be turned against you, but you may try and use them
for mind games and from afar so that they do not turn back and hit
you. Try to destroy Mario with your standard attacks, a few FTilts
and a DSmash here and there, Vanish to finish the job.


-----------------------------\
5.18) Marth:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Sheik

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Hard
One of the problems I can see when fighting him is the annoying
counter, but thankfully, the Counter's lag time has increased
since Melee forcing Marth players to use the move less often
(unless they are some kind of psychic geniuses able to predict
your every move) and yet you can simply grab them whenever you
see that counter is activated as it is not affected by the grab.
Try to keep him at a distance as Marth is a close range character
only (good spacing applies). Also... watch out for the tip of
his blade, is quite annoying... He is also very fast in case you
intend to camp half the battle, use Din's Fire, he will easily
dodge it and tip the heck out of you so yeah, he is tough stuff.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
Sheik's speed can easily keep up with Marth's. Marth's spacing
and tips will hit less as Sheik is a contact character, staying
close to full blade and away from tip. When away, she can always
resort to her Needle Storm, it usually does charm. FTilt lock
him and combo until there is no tomorrow. Try to be faster than
him and dodge his continuously FAir attacks, as that is what
most Marth resort to. Also, either shield or roll their Dancing
Blade, as this attack can easily be punished if missed. Definitely
watch out for his Shield Breaker, as his name suggests, you know
what would happen if you get hit by it, punish it if dodged.
Dolphin Slash can also be very deadly if hit at point blank as
this will sent you flying horizontally possibly finishing Sheik
for good as her short recovery may not bring her back.


-----------------------------\
5.19) Meta Knight:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Hard
As I and many others like to call him, "SpamKnight". This guy is SO
annoying if you fight him close range, and he is also fast enough
to get back to you if you try to run away. In this case, let him
follow you while shooting Din's Fires towards him and do a FSmash or
something of the sort when closed up, just don't let him use that
extremely annoying and broken (not to mention spammable) Mach Tornado
on you and try to punish him whenever he does, and avoid whenever he
uses that annoying Drill Rush on you. Zelda's DSmash is quite effective
against him.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Very Hard
Needle Storm, hands down. Sheik may not be a good match up or anything
but Needles are a good option to keep the distance while dealing damage,
even though SpamKnight is fast enough to get to you wherever you try
to hide. He has six jumps, his entire movelist can be used for recovery,
and his specials can bring him back from whenever you send him to, oh
and add gliding to that, wth? Gotta hate the masked ******. Good luck
finding a blind spot to his countless disjointed hitboxes...


-----------------------------\
5.20) Mr. Game & Watch:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Sheik

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Intense
I don't want anything to do with this shadow... I never thought he
would become such a good character this time around. His DSmash has
like 0 lag. Shadow pros tend to use that attack a lot and trust me,
is very effective. Also, NEVER use Din's Fire on him, don't even
THINK it. He'll pull out his super bucket a backfire at you with
Oil Panic which is probably better then his own Final Smash. His
BAir turtle can be extremely annoying as it is a shield stabbing
move, his DAir has absolutely no ending lag whatsoever, his USmash
is uberly strong, isn't he a bit TOO overpowered? Such a really
good recovery that if it wasn't that he is the 2nd lightest character
in the game, he would probably be banned... If you attempt to fight
him with Zelda, I suggest to... I do not even know what to suggest,
just do your best <_<;.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Very Hard
Sheik has a slightly little less trouble with the drawing, as "it"
is unable to absorb Needles into his little bucket. You have to be
faster than he is if you want to stand a chance. Also, watch out
for his Judge attack, the 9 is pretty much a 1 Hit KO and if he
pulls out an apple from number 7, do your best to get it first.
When caught in his DThrow, as Mr. Game & Watch players tend to do
a lot, try to quickly roll out of the way or you will most likely
be hit by its DSmash. Oh and when you do get hit by the DSmash,
I wouldn't be surprised if you have a trauma where you tell to
yourself, "I got DSmashed...".


-----------------------------\
5.21) Ness:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Sheik

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Hard
Same strategy as used against Lucas, except that his PK Thunder and
PK Fire are probably more annoying. Once again, do not use Din's Fire
on him or you will just be healing him. If you successfully reflect his
PK Thunder with Naryu's Love, he'll be wide open so use that chance
to annihilate him at full force and send the kid back to PK Land.
Be careful with his super kick, the BAir, it is almost as deadly as
Zelda's Lightning Kick except that it doesn't need any sweetspotting.
Try to use a lot of tilts against him, the DTilt lock works pretty well
followed by a DSmash or UTilt. By no means get hit by his PK Flash,
that thing KILLS. If you see it coming, neglect it with Naryu's Love
or simply get out of the way and rush to hit Ness. PK Flash will not
explode if Ness is hit.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
Ness is still kind of tough even for Sheik. Watch out for his DTilt
lock which is similar to Zelda's but with shorter range. His yo-yo
moves are also very tricky and can deal damage from many angles,
for example, his USmash covers him as a whole. Also, when edge
guarding, try to rush towards him and purposely get hit by his PK
Thunder when he attempts to recover, this will give you a little bit
of damage but in return, you will see him fall helplessly into the
dark pit of death, lol. Use your Needles effectively as his PSI
Magnet is unable to absorb them. If you get caught on his PK Fire,
DI out of it as soon as possible or he will follow with either his
FSmash or a grab.


-----------------------------\
5.22) Olimar:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Very Hard
This ****** is actually pretty freaking good... So unpredictable,
most of his attacks are about throwing Pikmins around while camping,
try to keep a fair distance from him and well, Din's Fire his colorful
buddies. Watch out for his Meteor as it has like no lag at all and
the floaty thing can juggle you like nothing. I believe Olimar is
far too strong, he can rack up 100% in no more than 3 moves, >.>'.
His Pikmin Chain is like "ZOMFG, did u jus did liek did mah dumaga!1".
His grab is WAY too good, nearly no penalty lag for such a good range.
The only "not-so-great" thing about Olimar is his recovery, and really,
were it to be any better and he, along with Mr.Game&Watch (with higher
weight) and it probably would be banned.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Very Hard
Sheik would have just as much trouble with him as Zelda does. The
Pikmins are able to block the Needles preventing them from reaching
Olimar. Since 99% of the Olimars are all about camping while throwing
Pikmins at you and finish it up with grab or smashes once you are
at high damage, all you can do as Sheik is chase after as fast as
possible before your damage meter goes above all else. Watch out
for his strong UAir attack and careful not to get smashed by a purple
Pikmin because that will probably it. If you think you have a chance
to hit him while he is doing his Pikmin Pluck, go for it, you probably
will not have another chance for the remaining of the battle. If you
also get the chance to edge-hog him, please do not hesitate to or you
will be sure to regret it.


-----------------------------\
5.23) Peach:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Easy
As I've said before, no character in this game should be underestimated.
Try to do stay close her and use your grabs and standard attacks and
maintain her grounded. What 98% of Peach users do is use her floating
to place right above you and kick you on the face a bunch of times,
followed by her FAir to do the KO. What you should do is that instead
of letting Peach come to you, you rush to her and burn her legs with
your USmash magic, or simply an UTilt will do the job. Also, if you
can predict her turnips, you may as well reflect them with Naryu's
Love and send them right back at her, specially that ugly looking
turnip that does 30% power and creates a huge knockback. She should
be an easy target for most Zelda players but remember, do not get
caught in her floaty legs, they could be quite annoying.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
While Sheik may not have as an easy time as Zelda does, she can still
give the Mushroom Kingdom Princess a good fight. Her USmash is
unlikely to reach Peach's legs so a better choice would be to do the
FTilt lock and follow with an UTilt. Also, Needles win over Turnips
(unless we are talking about the super-knockback-ugly-30%-turnip),
so use Needles whenever you see that Peach's floating engine has ran
out. Avoid her FAir and NAir at all cost, those are her primary
killing move and counter with your own aerials if possible.


-----------------------------\
5.24) Pikachu:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
Most. Annoying. Rat. Ever. While theoretically Zelda seems to have
the advantage in this sort of fight, Pikachu just tends to be too
annoying to deal with. First comes his smashes, all of them except
probably for the USmash do a significant amount of damage and have
very powerful knockback. While his Thunder Jolt can be easily reflect,
it may be used to take advantage of Naryu's Love lag time and launch
a powerful strike, most notceably his Thunder. He is not much of a
threat if you can get rid of him fast though as he IS a light weight
as well. Do not forget that Thunder can be reflected with Naryu's
Love and most Pikachu players are unaware of this, so if you are
above the Pikachu and you predict Thunder, immediately pull out
the love.


As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Hard
Now Sheik will indeed have a tough time with the yellow rat *******.
I do not find Needles to work against him and using the chain
offensively in this fight would be pretty useless. Vanish does not
seem to be that great either unless you KNOW you have him, otherwise
you will likely be punished for it. Try to stay under a platform at
all times to prevent his Thunder unless of course, you are playing
in Final Destination or perhaps SmashVille where there is little to
none of the sort. If his Iron Tail (USmash) hits you at point blank,
you are likely to die so try to attack him with Dash Attacks or
throws in order to confuse him and avoid whatever he throws at you.
As for Thunder Jolts, good luck dealing with that... What I suggest
is you jump above them and immediately rush towards him before he
gets a chance to spam them.


-----------------------------\
5.25) Pit:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
I find him to be quite the easy target for Zelda. His Mirror Shield
is unable to reflect Din's Fire (and no reflector in the game is) but
it can negate its damage. His attacks have shorter range than Zelda's
and his Palutena's arrow is easily reflected right back at him with
Naryu's Love UNLESS that is he purposely tilt the arrow so that when
it is reflected, it goes against the floor or sky and still hit you
with it if you fail to reflect it. Watch out for his Angel Ring though
as neither Naryu's Love or Farore's Wind can drop out of it. If Angel
Ring fails, try to roll to his back and do a DSmash, knowing that he is
a medium weight he may not be thrown aside easily but don't give up, his
insanely good recovery will bring him back in no time so be prepare to
do a Lightning kick on him while in the air or simply play it safe by
casting Din's Fire from far and burning his precious Wings of Icarus,
and just laugh afterwards to see that his wings have become nonfunctional,
what a shame.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Hard
As expected, Sheik would have a harder trouble with him than Zelda would.
Sheik is unable to absorb or reflect Palutena's Arrows by herself,
and her Needle Storm are easily sent right back at her by Pit's Angel
Ring or Mirror Shield. Pit's smashes and aerials can easily juggle Sheik,
so do not let this happen to you, slam your control stick whenever
you seem to have trouble with him in the air and shake him off with
a NAir. Watch out for his BAir as it has very high KO potential. Try to
get close to him and short-hop your aerial attacks, BAir work very well.
And whenever you get caught into his continuous A, A, Hold A attack,
DI out of it as soon as possible, that thing builds up damage very fast.


-----------------------------\
5.26) Pokémon Trainer:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Either

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
There are several strategies that you must watch out for and others that
you can use in your favor. For example, I find Squirtle to be the most
troublesome out of the three little pets as his Withdraw is hard to hit
when coming at you BUT if the opponent tries to come back to stage with
that attack, do a little of Din's Fire on it and the ****** turtle will
turn and fly towards the opposite direction and possibly causing him to
get KO. Squirtle is most noticeable for his aerials, he is really good
at those, not as good as Luigi but still very good. All you can do is
either shield-grab or follow up with tilts. Like Mario's F.L.U.D.D.,
watch out for his Water Gun when performing Din's Fire, it may be your
last. When fighting Ivysaur all you have to watch out for is his USmash,
do not just stand there to test whether it is the most powerful USmash or
not, just get out of the way as soon as possible or you will regret it.
Watch out for his Vine Whip attack whenever you are sent flying as it
is good, as well as his continuous A attack on ground. Reflect his Razor
Leafs with Naryu's Love. DI out of Bullet Seed if you get caught. As for
Charizard, since he has no long range attack and is relatively slow, just
play away from him and use your very own projectiles. Don't let yourself
hit by one of those Rock Smashes or be caught in Fly as both move can be
devastating. Shoot a Din's Fire at it, oh wait... it's not very
effective... oh wait... He is easy to juggle for being a large target
so do not hesitate to land a few Lightning Kicks on him if possible.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
Sheik will be just as good as Zelda for fighting Ash/Red/whoever he is.
She would probably have more trouble with Ivysaur than Zelda would but
easier time with Squirtle. Both would normally own Charizard. For the
little blue teenage mutant ninja turtle, it is best to attack him from
afar with Needle Storm whenever possible, specially during his Withdraw.
His Water Gun can also be devastating when trying to get back on the
stage because of Sheik's not-so-great recovery, but it has no effect
once you use Sheik's Chain to grab the ledge as a tether recovery.
When fighting Ivysaur, just avoid his Razor Leafs and run towards
the flower vegetable and send him crying back to his Pokéball. Watch
out for his FSmash and USmash as they are very strong, same with his
UAir and DAir. You will probably have some trouble if you get caught
in his Bullet Seed as it builds up damage quickly so DI out of it.
As for Charizard, what you should watch out for are pretty much all of
his specials, including Fly. Rock Smash has insane knockback if hit
directly, Flamethrower builds up damage quickly and can lock you for
a while just like Bowser's Fire Breath and well, his Fly kills people.
You FTilt lock should work pretty well on him though, and hitting him
with the tip of your USmash should not be hard.


-----------------------------\
5.27) R.O.B.:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Easy
Not a big deal really, his attacks are quite predictable, strong but
still predictable. Try to play away from him if possible as his smashes
are something you do not want to taste. You are able to reflect the Robo
Beam, block it and even dodge it, if you have fast hands like me and are
good at predicting, you will always see it coming from a mile away and
reflect it with Naryu's Love, follow your attack with a Din's Fire.
If he decides to pull out his Gyro, simply hurry and try to reflect
it with Naryu's Love as this is probably his most predictable attack,
if he manages to grab it and tries to throw it at you, reflect that
too. Once the Gyro is reflected and it starts spinning, you can now
grab it since Naryu's Love has claimed possession of it, or you can also
simply leave it there to that it may hurt ROB whenever he gets close
to it. Once his damage is at a high percentage, go to him and finish
him off. Being a large target also makes him an easier match up for
Zelda as you all should know by now, Lightning Kick works like a charm
on them, and even the Lightning Meteor as ROB attempts to use his
insanely good recovery move.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Hard
Sheik will definitely have a much harder time fighting the plastic toy.
She can, however, stay at very closed range to him preventing him from
charging the Gyro and allow him to abuse his short-hopped NAir, and
honestly that probably his most used move due to its enormous range
and massive power. His BAir and DAir are similar and also hurt a lot.
Definitely watch out for his DAir whenever getting back on a stage as
it is an easy spike move for him. FTilt lock works really good on him,
follow up with USmash and you may have the match down. Dodge the Robo
Beam whenever you see it coming and when he attempts to use the Robo
Burner to get back on stage, go after and hit him with whatever aerial
you can think of, BAir works the best. If Needle Storm is used, watch
out as his Arm Rotor can reflect those Needles.


-----------------------------\
5.28) Samus:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Easy
Half of Samus' special attacks are projectiles that are very easy to
reflect right back at her. When fighting against Samus, it is better
to go with Zelda and fight it at mid range so that she doesn't have
time to block her own reflections while you are still able to predict
her moves. Good Samus players tend to use her double Super Missile
attack, the one done during Missile canceling so that she can fire
two consecutive missiles in a row with much lag. Well, this is double
her doom because if timed right, Zelda's Naryu's Love is able to
reglect both missiles with the single move. However, it is possible
that the Super Missiles won't get back to her so if you are a bit
too far you may try to follow up with Din's Fire, if not, you may go
ahead and rush towards her and attack her on the spot. Another little
trick Samus players tend to do is the DAir > Screw Attack combo which
surprising works very well, but if you manage to perfect shield or
dodge the DAir, its ending lag will cause Samus to be open for half
a second where you can counter with your USmash or even an UTilt.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Easy
Sheik would normally have a little bit harder trouble with Samus
than Zelda would but nothing much significant, really. Sheik's moves
are too fast for Samus to keep up and as long as Sheik can keep her
close range, Samus cannot use her little Missiles. Samus is yet
that Sheik can easily lock in her FTilt and follow up with a smash
attack. Moves like Sheik's FSmash will easily double hit Samus, not
to mention that in case you were to play against a campy Samus, you
can pull out Sheik's Chain and blow up all the Missiles thrown at
you before they get to touch you, as long as you swing the Chain
around in front of you of course. Whenever you see Samus coming from
above in her Morph Ball mode doing he DAir, do not be afraid of the
Bombs as they do not blow up on contact so simply do what ever aerial
you see fit at the moment to knock her out of it.


-----------------------------\
5.29) Snake:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
This guy is too broken so just give up, -_-'... Nah, he may be broken
but not so much against Zelda who I find to be exceptionally good
against him. Ugh, hi tilts are so broken... Anyways, I would personally
suggest to fight Snake at long range with Zelda. His projectiles can
easily be seen from miles, this include his Hand Grenades and Nikita.
For the grenades, use Naryu's Love whenever you see them coming at you,
this may send the grenade back to Snake. Do not do it if the grenade
already has a while outside as this risks you from being blown up by
them right when you attempt to reflect them. As for the Nikita, you
may try to reflect it if it comes right straight at you, however,
nearly no Snake users do this from long range, instead they will drop
it right at your foot or try to release it above you so that it may
blow up on you, in this case, rolling away is the best option. When
edge guarding and Snake attempts to recover with his Cypher, go after
him, he is very vulnerable during this move, allowing you to aim and
perform a Lightning Meteor or Lightning Kick on him, either is almost
guaranteed to finish him. Another thing is to never use Farore's Wind
as an offensive attack against Snake as you run the risk of him
dropping a grenade, shielding, and having you blow up for detonating
the grenade he just dropped.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Hard
First thing to do when fighting close range as Sheik is to avoid the
tilts. I know the have broken range and crazy knockback and ridiculous
power and no lag whatsoever and... Just avoid the friggin tilts...
Attempt to lock Snake in your FTilt whenever possible allowing you
to deal damage quickly and follow up with an USmash or UTilt or even
Vanish can work pretty well, just do not do it when a grenade is
right below or somewhere near you. Also, always be careful where
Snake places his mines and C4, because if you are used to running
around with Sheik (and who isn't?) then one of those could cost you.
If Snake attempts to recover with Cypher while very close to the
stage's edge, grab him, if you successfully do this WITHOUT hitting
him or inflicting any sort of damage onto him and release him by
default, he will helplessly fall unable to reuse his Cypher.
Sheik's Needle Storm does not really work all that great against
Snake as you may expect, as Snake can just throw away Hand Grenades
washing away some of the needles, therefore reducing the damage taken
while also leaving you with an explosive right by your foot so you
must watch your every step.


-----------------------------\
5.30) Sonic:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
I never thought this blue hairy thing would be so fast... If used
correctly, this guy can combo even more than Meta Knight can and at a
much faster speed too. Block his Spin Dash whenever possible and just
stay very close to him. What Sonic will usually do is the "every-sonic-
user-knows-combo" which is the Spin Dash followed by a jump, followed
by an UAir which is then followed by a Spring Jump which later followed
by another UAir, -_-'... Either that or the even dumber combo of doing
a Homing Attack right after the first UAir. How to break this "combo"?
Pretty easy, just do not get hit by the initial Spin Dash >_>'. They
are so predictable that if you dodge it and immediately do an USmash,
it is almost guaranteed that you will hit them. Either that or the
overall strategy is to patiently wait for them to dash at you with
either Spin Dash or Spin Charge and right when you see him coming,
release your FSmash, time it right and you will ALWAYS hit him.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Hard
As expected, Sheik may have a bit more trouble with the blue pest.
The lag in Sheik's smashes are so large that Sonic's speed could take
advantage every single time. If Sonic's spin attacks are predicted,
you can always Needle Storm him out of the way and go for the KO.
When he attempts to do the combo listed above, you have several options,
to shield or dodge and follow up with Vanish or a short-hopped NAir/UAir
or to jump over the Spin Dash and attack as you see fit. The ways Sonic
can kill are very limited, like doing that UAir at the end of the "combo"
to pretty much take you out of the boundaries at the top, also his BAir
and FSmash once you have high damage, and well, that is about it. As long
as you block and avoid these moves accordingly, Sonic has more trouble
killing you than Sheik would.


-----------------------------\
5.31) Toon Link:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
One of the characters that is considered "cheap" by many Brawlers who
play against him, is little to no match against a good Zelda player.
Apply Link's strategies but at a much faster pace, however, unlike Link,
try to play him a little more at long range and reflect his Boomerang,
Arrows and even his Bombs with Naryu's Love. His smashes are far too
deadly for you to challenge him to a hand-to-hand combat. Din's Fire
here and there and Dash Attack whenever possible. You must watch out
for moves like his DAir, it really hurts and can be follow by more DAirs
if you are at low damage or an UAir if at overall damage. His BAirs are
as annoying as you may think as they have good knockback, damage and
can also be combo easily into other attacks. Because of his light weight
status, if you are a respectable Zelda player, the ****** in the green
tunic won't stand a ghost of a chance.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Very Hard
Even if you think you are much better at using Sheik than Zelda, I still
suggest you resort to using Zelda over Sheik no matter what, because the
difficulty difference is huge. Sheik can be juggled with Toon Link's
projectiles alone without really getting the chance to touch him, as a
good Toon Link player will know how to do just that, build up damage
with his projectiles and finish the job by sending you away with one of
his insanely strong smashes, because all three have the force to knock
you out of the stage. And what about your projectile? Even the use of
your Needle Storm is limited as Toon Link's Hero Shield will block any
projectile as long as he is... just standing there... What I can think
of doing is jump over his arrows, boomerangs and bomb at all times and
try to counter with an aerial and attempt to follow with a smash, if you
can. Good luck fighting this toon brat, he is tough.


-----------------------------\
5.32) Wario:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
I don't know whether making a strategy to fight Wario is a good idea or
not, his moves are some of the oddest out there making him quite hard
to predict. If this Wario user is the one that loves to spam the Wario
Bike (extremely super mega easy to dodge in my opinion) the roll towards
the other side and Din's Fire his butt, pretty easy don't you think? But
nah, good Warios are not dumb enough to do that, instead, the love to
short-hop his DAir attack which is nothing more than an annoying shield
stabbing move and unless you block the whole thing, it will hit you no
matter what, unless you avoid it as a whole. Feel free to FSmash him to
death and do that GTFO kick that us Zelda players love, the DSmash =).

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Hard
Nearly everything is harder for Sheik this time around, eh? Guess that
is the difference in tiers for you, than again, tiers are for queets,
lololololz... Anyways, Wario should not really be that hard, except that
you will probably have much trouble with his Wario Bike than Zelda would,
but even than, it is something you see coming and can easily dodge.
Whenever you attempt to Dash Attack him, just be sure not to get caught
in his Chomp, and whenever you see him "glowing" or "blinking", it is
pretty much telling you "don't get caught in his dumb fart you dumb
*******!". Even his Corkscrew could be threatening, so make your moves
wisely, and make them count.

-----------------------------\
5.33) Wolf:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zelda-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
The last but not least talking animal is one of the deadliest characters
around, some consider him to be one the best around. What do I think?
Zelda >>> Wolf. Wolf doesn't have much originality, if any at all.
Most Wolf players tend to spam his FSmash like if there is no tomorrow
hoping for the hit to land, however, after seen it so many times, the
move has become so predictable and easy to avoid. Wolf's Blaster is
one of the slowest projectiles out there and can be avoided with your
hands tied. His Reflector has nearly no difference than Fox's and his
Wolf Flash and Fire Wolf aren't that good, so what makes him great?
Being a relatively fast, heavy-medium weight and his attacks hurt pretty
bad. Play him at your best, no real strategy is needed against him. Do
your best to avoid his DSmash as it is surprisingly fast a packs quite
a knockback. Do not use Din's Fire on him as it will be neglected by
Wolf's reflector and possibly leaving wide opened for his attacks, so
simply avoid him accordingly and counter with you smashes.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Hard
Boo... Bah... Bleh... I believe keeping Wolf pressure is the key to
winning against him, stay really close to him so that some of his
attacks, specially the FSmash, lose its effect while having Sheik do
her best attacks on him, this include the FTilt lock which works well
on Wolf, the USmash and even Vanish. If he pulls out the Blaster on
you, crouch it, yes, Sheik's crouch is almost as good as Snake's and
can easily avoid the Blaster and you may follow up with a DTilt and
combo it into something else. If you see his Fire Wolf coming from a
distance, shield it and it will stop right in front of you with some
ending lag, immediately counter with something like a FSmash. And do
not hesitate to use your Needle Storm against him, even if they are
reflected by his Reflector, they are unlikely to get back to you so
use that time to re-counter him.


-----------------------------\
5.34) Yoshi:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Zelda

As Zekda-
Overall Difficulty: Easy
Another easily underrated characters, as an old friend always says
"it's the quite ones you have to watch out for", right Snake? His
offense may not be great and his projectile may not be the best
(still quite annoying though) but if you are good, you would have no
trouble against him, just try not to get caught in his aerials and
smashes, those hurt, fighting outside his Egg Throw attack range
and you will be fine. Most of his attacks have huge ending lag where
even a noob would use to counter with a good smash or even the DTilt
lock as it works great on the dino. If he uses Egg Throw at mid-range
against you, use Naryu's Love, it will actually get back to him before
hatching. As for what to do about his Egg Roll, it is nowhere as good
as Jigglypuff's Rollout as it is much MUCH slower and a lot less
deadlier, you can even stop it with a good Din's Fire thrown at him.
Sending him flying into the air with an USmash and follow up with a
UAir usually works pretty good against him.

As Sheik-
Overall Difficulty: Normal
You should always watch out for Yoshi's FAir, it is one heck of a good
spike and they tend to use it often for edge-guarding. His Egg Roll
can easily be stopped by Sheik's Needle Storm, even if it is just a
single needle, it works pretty well to knock him out of it. His Egg
Throw on the other hand can be a pain if fighting him from a long
distance, so try to shield it and run towards him. As expected, the
FTilt locks work really well on this green Barney, and it is also fairly
easy to get him with the tip of Sheik's USmash. What i suggest for Egg
Lay is the same thing you should do when you are grabbed, start smashing
buttons like crazy to break out of the egg as quick as possible, the
more damage you have, the longer you will stay inside that egg. The
Yoshi Bomb is also pretty good and has the same effect as King Dedede's
Super Dedede Jump, it shoots little stars from the side when landing
to prevent quick countering, but it still has enough ending lag to
allow you to punish him with projectiles from afar or if you simply
dodge the move.


-----------------------------\
5.35) Zero Suit Samus:
-----------------------------/

Wiser Choice: Either

As Zelda-
Zero Suit Samus can be such a pain playing against, ugh... But is all
good since she is so cool... Anyways, if you have played a really good
Zero Suit Samus pro like I have, you have learned to fear her uber
deadly combos. Omg, have you seen that DThrow > Plasma Wire > DSmash >
DSmash > BAir? Yeah, so have I, the hard way... What you have to watch
out the most are two things, her DSmash and her Plasma Whip. The Plasma
Whip because it is her main killer move and her DSmash because she can
stun you with it, deal damage and you are pretty much guaranteed to get
hit by something else after it. Zero Suit Samus' Paralyzer can be
reflected though it is likely that it won't get back at her, but if
it does, you have a wide open woman in a blue athletic suit waiting
to be tossed aside. I suggest you keep your distance since she is not
a long range fighter, unless she uses her armor pieces, which you can
reflect with Naryu's Love. Shoot Din's Fires at her but do not lower
your guard as if you miss, she is fast enough to show up right next to
you and grab you.

As Sheik-
However, when fighting Zero Suit Samus as Sheik, it can be benefitting
for a good speed mind game, where Sheik may have the advantage due to
Zero Suit Samus' lag in attacks. Zero Suit Samus would be wide opened
if her smashes are dodged, and you can follow with your usual A, A, A
combo or even with an FTilt lock after she attempt to stun you with her
DSmash and you successfully blocked it. However, she is likely to have
advantage in the air, her Plasma Wire can drag Sheik right to her feet
for a free FAir or BAir possibly ending the fight. Use Needle Storm to
slow her down and do not try to prove that your Chain is better than
her Plasma Whip, because it isn't... One more thing, when you are
recovering, try not to use the Chain as tether recovery if possible
because if Zero Suit Samus does her Flip Jump right when you do it,
it is pretty much the end for you as that is one heck of a spike move.
 

Mega-Japan

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Omg, I accidentally double posted, lol, well, keep this post for something else I guess xD.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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I have only a few problems with your chart...

the biggest is that it makes no allowance for someone who wants to switch between zelda and shiek throught the match... this tactic makes Ganondorf and ROB (as I can think of off of the top of my mind) much easier...

also Fox, Falco, Ness, Metaknight and lucas I take some objection to..

Personally, I Find Zelda better than shiek vs. the earthbounders... though ness isn't really hard for either... maybe it's just my playstyle.

Shiek also does bettter than "bad" against fox and falco.. actually performs well... and most fox mains FEAR zelda... so that should get changed.

Metaknight is AWFUL for shiek... but is not a bad matchup at all for zelda.


This is all just according to MY experience... and I didn't read everything.

But, ladies and gents... don't let the wall of text discourage ou from asking questions. These tips are quite general. Your questions are important to us an we'll respnd to each case as specifically, and helpfully as we can ^_^ have a nice day
 

Mega-Japan

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Sonic, I actually didn't write this alone, I discussed them with some other experienced Zelda/Sheik mainers. Not only that but some ideas were based off this chart:



And if you compare the difficulties stated on the chart and the difficulties I gave the characters, they're either the same or very similar. There are a thing or two I don't agree with the chart either.
 

Mr. Escalator

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Haha, wow, this is a pretty good thread idea.
One thing about the mario bit in the third post...

The cape's canceling affect lingers like Falco's reflector, so timing is really not an issue on the cape.
I didn't realize FLUDD during Din's Fire could do such a mean thing. :p

Though you probably are focused on helping Zelda/Sheik mainers, I need help with an awful matchup as Yoshi. Zelda just seems to outrange and outprioritize most everything Yoshi has. Getting the kill is very hard, and the egg game isn't the most useful except when Zelda is above you. Dins Fire is easier for me to get around now that I figured out that his Nair would stop Din's around his body, but it's still an extremely hard matchup.

Are there certain things I can do that seem to get past her defenses or puts her into a harder spot then usual? This matchup is heavily reliant on my mindgames, and I dislike that :[

I main G&W, so this only really helps my friendly game with Yoshi.

Even if you don't want to help, thats ok.
I love the idea of this thread ;p
and the resources (post three and the one above mine) you have are nice.

Best wishes!
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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Sorry dude.... I personally can't help you much here. Not only do I not know that matchup from your side... but Yoshi also isn't someone we Zelda mains see a lot as he's normally not serious competition.
From my understanding, however, Yoshi is just going to have a massive uphill battle here. Zelda just severely outclasses him.
No matter what you do, you're going to have to work for this one. You're gonna have to try and bait her and get her to whif... but, even then, you probably aren't going to have enough of an opening to land a KO move.
From my understanding, yoshi's Uair is a pretty respectable KO move if you can hit with it... so, my reocomendation would be to get zelda into the air. You've got a better chance of beating her there since she has blindspots at all of her diagonals while airborne... just be wary of letting her land first.
 

Mr. Escalator

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It's indeed a very uphill battle, and the only time it's truly close is when I get to pick my stages x----x;
Uair is probably my best bet at killing once she gets her defenses up.

I don't think I can abuse the diagonal blindspots with Yoshi to well, but I'll try.

Alright, thanks regardless.
Any info helps, so I'll just have to work on this particular matchup a little more.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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Only one more tip I guess... unless the Zelda was smart enough to ban it... counterpick lylat cruise against her unless you aren't familiar with it either... you'll be able to abuse her when she recovers... IF she recovers... or force her to change to shiek if the zelda is that bad at the stage. Beware the platforms there though... she can smash or din's through them.
 

FirebyrdXX

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I swear Snake is not a Normal fight. He kills Zelda too easily, especially with abusable tilts. And that mortarslide and nair! My god!
 

Mega-Japan

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I swear Snake is not a Normal fight. He kills Zelda too easily, especially with abusable tilts. And that mortarslide and nair! My god!
As Zelda, I really don't find Snakes to be hard >_> (unless I'm playing someone like Cort... which I have...).

Also, did you know that you can reflect the mortar with Naryu's Love? Yeah, now you do.

Also, the chart also shows Snake as average difficulty so it's good.
 

FirebyrdXX

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As Zelda, I really don't find Snakes to be hard >_> (unless I'm playing someone like Cort... which I have...).

Also, did you know that you can reflect the mortar with Naryu's Love? Yeah, now you do.

Also, the chart also shows Snake as average difficulty so it's good.
I know what the chart say and I'm saying I disagree with it. I face two people who are very good with Snake and I can only win as Zelda 25% of the time.

Yeah I know you can reflect mortar, but that's so situational. Usually, they never do it high enough (if they're sliding) for me to even get to it to reflect it. And if they're edgeguarding, it goes so high that they'll easily get out of the way by then. It's nice to have, but it's by no means reliable. When I have to spam DF more than I ever have, worry about my spacing on the ground constantly and take advantage of every recovery for a spike or lightning kick to win, I'm sorry but that's no neutral battle.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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Snake is a hard matchup IMO as well. he just kills her to easily. it might be one of those things where it requires a high base skill with Zelda to go even in this matchup, but, once you have that skill, it'll play even.... but, personally, my skill level isn't there if that's the case.

he just kills WAY too easily
 

FirebyrdXX

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Ugh, I only managed to beat Snake ONCE yesterday. I'm not joking, his f-tilt comes out faster than my C-stick down smash.
 

Mega-Japan

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Hmm, if you people say so I'm starting to consider him as hard. But from personal experience, I don't think he is hard at all, it is probably the difference in skills from both players and not the characters.
 

N.A.G.A.C.E

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i dont think snake is that hard i was playing one today and we split the matches 4/4 (it went i won then he won then i won etc) he is someone who i have only played a couple times before (so its not like i am use to the way he plays) and he is around the same skill lvl as me (we are both tournament going people who often to very well top 10 or better). so this makes me think that the fight is more or less even, it just depends on who gets the momentum and keeps it.

also i wrote a paragraph on how to fight snake which i think is not bad and if anyone wants i can find the thread it was in and post it here.
 

Mega-Japan

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Like I said, is probably the difference in skills between the Zelda player and the Snake player and little to nothing about the characters.

I mean, Bowser's difficulty is easy, yet I have one heck of a hard time with DiasFlac's Bowser. What about Yoshi? He's easy right? Go play NC1 PRiDE's Yoshi and tell me it's easy afterwards.
 

N.A.G.A.C.E

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^ i agree with you mega that it is most likely the skill of the player and not the character in the snake vs zelda matchup, but there are some key points of the fight the zelda needs to jump on to make it easier for them. and i think i cover most of them in the thing i wrote.

here are two: when he is using his up b make sure to punish him whenever you can, sometimes even the best snake cant do anything to avoid a hit when using his up-B.
Also when a snake is close to you he has limited options so he will be using his tilts so get ready to smash him and you f-smash does out range his tilts but not by much but try to use it to your advantage
 

Mega-Japan

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^ i agree with you mega that it is most likely the skill of the player and not the character in the snake vs zelda matchup, but there are some key points of the fight the zelda needs to jump on to make it easier for them. and i think i cover most of them in the thing i wrote.

here are two: when he is using his up b make sure to punish him whenever you can, sometimes even the best snake cant do anything to avoid a hit when using his up-B.
Also when a snake is close to you he has limited options so he will be using his tilts so get ready to smash him and you f-smash does out range his tilts but not by much but try to use it to your advantage
About the Cypher thing, when they do it, Lighting Meteor them xD. It is like asking for it and it's pretty easy to do =).
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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I found this in another thread... it could be useful... I was the one who wrote it, so I don't feel bad copy-pasting ^_^

okay so here's the best way to approach fighting a metaknight:

-DON'T APPROACH METAKNIGHT. he's going to punish you if you dash attack him by spotdodging and punishing your cooldown lag. he'll just whack you out of a dash Usmash... you could get lucky and hope he reacts incorrectly, but I wouldn't bet on it.

-His air game will kill yours, so STAY GROUNDED unless moving in for a Uair kill.

- Lots of your moves, if timed correctly, will go through his priority tornado.

-DON'T LET HIM TOO CLOSE Dsmash if he's right on top of you.

-Use din's to force him to approach.

-Usmash destroys any attempt he makes to come at you from the air. It'll be your best friend.

-Usmash allso punishes a power shielded shuttle loop.

- he's REALLY lightweight so you can kill him at obscenely low damages as long as one of your KO moves is relatively fresh.

- Be smart with Farore's wind. It's a slow recovery, so make sure you employ it in the safest manner possible

-A glide is easily punnished by Din's fire

if you can short hop into a lighting kick, I'm pretty sure you can KO metaknight at 50%

if he goes up with his tornado and you find yourself below him, he can't airdodge, Uair will kill him at low damage, if Uair has a lot of decay on it, Utilt is also a strong option. if neither of those are practical, Usmash is good for building damage and high damage KOs

Din's fire is quite capable of actually KOing metaknight if his damage and screen position are high enough or close enough to the edge.

DON'T TRY TO FEND OFF HIS AERIALS, they outrange yours.. just avoid him. If he's dumb enough to get in lightning kick range then punish him with a FRESH lighting kick instead of one you failed to land 7 times.

Save a jump when you are in the air.. it makes you more versitile and you have a better chance of escaping.

You won't get off your spike... don't even try it.

You also will never land your Nair because of its range... only use it to refresh other moves.

Don't neglect tilts or her neutral A. You need all the speed to can get in this matchup, and they refresh your KO moves.

if your Dtilt causes Metaknight trip, which it's likely to do, it's impossible for him to avoid a Fsmash if you follow up with it. (Moral: follow up successful trips with Fsmash)

Nayru's love is a great "get the hell off of me" move, and since you won't be reflecting anything, it'll normally be pretty fresh. it's a great alternative to Dsmash when he's too close. it tends to be better at dealing damage, but it doesn't have the KOing power.

if you powersheild his Up+B you can easily drop your sheild in time to Usmash him when he finishes his loop, he can't attack through it, though it's funny to watch him try.

I'm not even sure if you need to powersheild it.

Edit: KEEP IN MIND that even though the matchup is even, he WILL win if you make too many mistakes. Don't get complacent just because you are one of MK's harder matchups
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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*bump*

to those who said yellow pikmin are immune to nayru's love.... they aren't... no pikmin is (and it kills whites)

it's just, NL doesn't have hitboxes on Zelda's head... so, if they latch high enough, she won't knock them off with it.
 

RoguefanAM

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*revives thread from the dead*

Ugh, I just got slaughtered by a G&W online. He fr*ckin' three stocked me. I seriously need some tips for fighting against him. His priority’s insane, his attacks are incredibly fast and damaging, he's small (bad for lightning kick) and his bucket takes away a useful mind-game centric (and sometimes damaging) projectile. His hitboxes are also annoyingly deceptive. To add insult to injury, I'm an aggressive Zelda - an already risky style since Zelda's so light - and because of that I tend to get punished for it often. I honestly can't counter-pick, my only decent character is Zelda right now, so...any advice? BESIDES the obvious answer: to counter-pick??? Or to simply just change my aggressive play-style? Since, really, it serves me well enough.

Help? :dizzy:

Oh, and as for the Snake matchup - I agree, he isn't that hard. Mines can be annoying and his attacks are powerful, but to me he doesn't seem that dangerous. Maybe I just haven't fought a mastermind Snake that snipe kills you with unexpected detonations, but the Snake's I've fought didn't live up to the tier hype. His projectiles aren’t that useful against Zelda's since she can defend herself (NL's) against them pretty well and the fact he's a pretty big target, can't do much about dins, as well as isn't that much faster than Zelda helps too.

P.S. Chain-grabs: teh s*ck. I know, Zelda can't really be chain-grabbed by anyone - still, I was in a tournament, fighting against some Ice Climbers, and they just kept grabbing over and over...I managed to escape a couple of times, but they were relentless...eventually they spiked me off the stage with the down grab d-air combo. I probably just need some more experience with these type of players (I'm a newb), but any tidbits would be useful...

Plz excuse the horrible, horrible grammer. :(
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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*revives thread from the dead*

Ugh, I just got slaughtered by a G&W online. He fr*ckin' three stocked me. I seriously need some tips for fighting against him. His priority’s insane, his attacks are incredibly fast and damaging, he's small (bad for lightning kick) and his bucket takes away a useful mind-game centric (and sometimes damaging) projectile. His hitboxes are also annoyingly deceptive. To add insult to injury, I'm an aggressive Zelda - an already risky style since Zelda's so light - and because of that I tend to get punished for it often. I honestly can't counter-pick, my only decent character is Zelda right now, so...any advice? BESIDES the obvious answer: to counter-pick??? Or to simply just change my aggressive play-style? Since, really, it serves me well enough...

Help? :dizzy:
I too am an agressive Zelda... and I also hate game and watch for all the reasons that you mentioned... mainly though, it's because that dang bair goes right through Usmash and Fsmash and if you even get NICKED with that key he'll probably whip out an Fsmash or a Dsmash for a nice and easy KO (sho shield or hammer Dsamsh like crazy).

Honestly, I've only done well against him by switching between Zelda and shiek. as long as you can break in and combo him a few times with shiek, he'll get to a point where any Zelda attack will KO him.

As for straight Zelda tactics:
-hold onto your aerials. He's uberlightweight, so after about 50% damage, he can be killed by Uair and after 60-70% he's lighting kick bait... so long as they are fresh... they might be hard to land, but low damage kills are worth it.
-Learn how to use din's. He can't INSTANLY bucket... you can normally catch him in a position where if he tries to bucket, he's going to eat it in the face, so he'll have to shield or dodge... and, in certain occasions (when he's falling at you), if he DOES dodge, he'll be bait for a Usmash, fsmash, aerial, utilt maybe Ftilt...
- He's uberlightweght and small making it a bit easier for him to smash DI out of your multihits... so practice judicious timing and spacing with those.
-Learn the startup and cooldown time of Zelda's attacks... and G&W's attacks... you DON'T want to eat fire in the face because you tried to Fsmash when you COULD have just Dsmashed.
- remember what moves are fresh... you don't wanna miss a KO because you used a decayed Usmash instead of a fresh Utilt

Oh, and as for the Snake matchup - I agree, he isn't that hard. Mines can be annoying and his attacks are powerful, but to me he doesn't seem that dangerous. Maybe I just haven't fought a mastermind Snake that snipe kills you with unexpected detonations, but the Snake's I've fought didn't live up to the tier hype. His projectiles aren’t that useful against Zelda's since she can defend herself (NL's) against them pretty well and the fact he's a pretty big target, can't do much about dins, as well as isn't that much faster than Zelda helps too.
his projectiles indeed are less usefull against Zelda than against most.... but that doesn't REALLY matter since he has a VERY safe approach in the form of Dash attack cancelled Usmashes. but Zelda's main problem with snake are his broken moves:
-Dash attack cancel => Usmash
-Ftilt
-Utilt
-Jab
they all have an easy time connecting and will either put Zelda in a bad position (DACUsmash and jab) or will KO at low damages (tilts)... plus he's uber hard to kill and his ftilt goes through Fsmash if properly spaced.... it's toal crap.
P.S. Chain-grabs...they s*ck. I know, Zelda can't really be chain-grabbed by anyone - still , I was in a tournament, fighting against some Ice Climbers, and they just kept grabbing over and over...till they spiked me off the stage with the down grab d-air combo. I probably just need some more experience with these type of players, but any tidbits would be useful...
it's simple really... her offensive approaches are easily sheildgrabed for the most part or punished by a grab in some way..... play more defensively to avoid being constantly molested.
 

DanGR

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*bump*

to those who said yellow pikmin are immune to nayru's love.... they aren't... no pikmin is (and it kills whites)

it's just, NL doesn't have hitboxes on Zelda's head... so, if they latch high enough, she won't knock them off with it.
blues don't get hurt by NL. Nayru is the god of water or somethin right? It makes sense. Just pointing that out. ^_^
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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blues don't get hurt by NL. Nayru is the god of water or somethin right? It makes sense. Just pointing that out. ^_^
nayru would be the goddess of wisdom... not water. and I'm prty sure Nayru's love counts as a Slash type atttack.. it'll knock of blues just as it will yellows, reds or whites... I don't understand why people seem to think pikmin are immune to it... I've knocked them off with it before.. unless they are stuck to the top of my head.

So... in closing... I repeat... NO pikmin is immune to Nayru's love... despite what DanGR insists on repeating... I believe it was he who originally said yellows were immune, and now it's somehow blues.... the correct answer is: none.
 

Chaco

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Yeah sorry for coming into this, but you underrate Yoshi's ability against Zelda. I've gotten so accustomed to Zelda's that I always know what's coming, and I can get eggs out faster than their Din's Fire. So just rethink your match up there, because most Zelda's I play get beat.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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Yeah sorry for coming into this, but you underrate Yoshi's ability against Zelda. I've gotten so accustomed to Zelda's that I always know what's coming, and I can get eggs out faster than their Din's Fire. So just rethink your match up there, because most Zelda's I play get beat.
key words here.

if they Zeldas you were playing were equally as accustommed to you and had similar prognosticative abilities, the matchup would go right back to yoshi's disadvantage.

Yoshi's not a pushover in the matchup, but he also doesn't have any sort of advantage, and eggs do NOT protect from Din's... because din's can and will still explode on yoshi if they decide to trade.

Yoshi DOES have an advatage in the air.... for the most part, though he doesn't defend against lighting kicks as well as some other characters who take Zelda airborne.

But, on the ground, he has almost nothing on Zelda
His grab handily outranges a lot of Zelda's attacks making him one of the few characters who can grab her fairly often... but good luck getting inside her fortress of smashes often if ever. Yoshi just lacks a single reliable approach against Zelda.
 

SinkingHigher

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I know this is a bit useless now, but it would have been good to reserve a post space for each character, and seperate them by character size or difficulty. There are some really in-depth matchup analysis posts lurking around here somewhere.

Anyway, thanks to everyone that made this post.

As a side note, I am yet to see what is so difficult about Snake? Anyone recommend a good video of Zelda getting ***** by Snake?

Ooh, that gives me an idea. Would it be helpful to have a list of Zelda/Sheik vs. "_______" links for each matchup? I think learning by watching is better than learning by reading. Nothing better than doing, though.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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I know this is a bit useless now, but it would have been good to reserve a post space for each character, and seperate them by character size or difficulty. There are some really in-depth matchup analysis posts lurking around here somewhere.

Anyway, thanks to everyone that made this post.

As a side note, I am yet to see what is so difficult about Snake? Anyone recommend a good video of Zelda getting ***** by Snake?

Ooh, that gives me an idea. Would it be helpful to have a list of Zelda/Sheik vs. "_______" links for each matchup? I think learning by watching is better than learning by reading. Nothing better than doing, though.
I'm tremendously lazy in updating things... but yes, I can link to other matchup threads or to viseos if they are deemed good enough to be pertinent.....

what this REALLY needs is a better spoiler tag system... I GREATLY prefer spoiler buttons over spoiler blackout text... that way I could wrap each matchup in a button and that way they'd all be there but wouldn't take up an obscene amount of space like Mega Japan's first post (can't he just link to that so we won't have such a massive wall of text?)

As for snake... what makes him difficult is that his broken morterslide allows him to approach Zelda VERY effecively on the ground, which is something most characters cannot claim.

His jab is also RIDICULOUSLY easy to spam and, if it connects, it ALSO puts Zelda in a compromising positon.

Then there's the matter of his Utilt and Ftilt, they both come out RIDICULOUSLY fast, have GREAT killing power EXCELLENT priority and DECEPTIVELY LARGE range... <_< what were the game designers thinking?

anyway... Zelda's light and snake KOs her rather easily, due to his broken moves. But, despite Zelda's illing power, Snake is really hard for her to KO.
 

pillsbury552

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I need some help.. I have a friend who uses lucario, and is pretty good. I use zelda on him, but I don't always sit back and use dins because he dodges, but I do use it when he's landing a jump or when he is open. But I like to just forget about stalling and take him out, but once I get him up to a higher damage level he finds an opening kills me. I beat him every now and then but the match is always close. The main way I get him is with lightning kick and with up smash. Is there a better way?
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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Lucario's frustrating because he's one of the few charcters that can compete with Zelda in terms of range.

He's not incredibly heavy though, so my best advice would to be to keep at least ONE kill move fresh and use it at the first tripple digit opening you find... oh... and go for edgeguard kills against him... it's an EXCEPTIONALLY easy one to get... he normally has to leave himself open for punishment by landing on the stage, or he could suffer an easy ledgehog.. OR he could be close enough to the stage to be lightning kick or lightning stomp bait.

I don't have problems with most lucarios, but he's not a pushover most of the time either.... just learn which moves of his have high cooldown times and learn to punish them.
 

RoguefanAM

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Thanks for the tips Sonic, especially the G&W advice. I really needed it. Hopefully I don't get ***** next time I challenge a G&W mainer.
 

Chaco

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key words here.

if they Zeldas you were playing were equally as accustommed to you and had similar prognosticative abilities, the matchup would go right back to yoshi's disadvantage.

Yoshi's not a pushover in the matchup, but he also doesn't have any sort of advantage, and eggs do NOT protect from Din's... because din's can and will still explode on yoshi if they decide to trade.

Yoshi DOES have an advatage in the air.... for the most part, though he doesn't defend against lighting kicks as well as some other characters who take Zelda airborne.

But, on the ground, he has almost nothing on Zelda
His grab handily outranges a lot of Zelda's attacks making him one of the few characters who can grab her fairly often... but good luck getting inside her fortress of smashes often if ever. Yoshi just lacks a single reliable approach against Zelda.
Has no approcach huh, I can think of about three. Soon as the match starts Yoshi goes airborne bair into tilt. There's the main one, my option which most don't know is coming is a Draconic Reverse approach, with like dsmash for example. It works, trust me, I pull it off frequently. And the third wouldn't actually be an approach but some opening damage ETS off the stage and recover into Dair. Since they naturally come for you once your off the stage. Yoshi would be about mid Zelda so Usmash might ctach an edge but no serious damage.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

Smash Hero
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Has no approcach huh, I can think of about three. Soon as the match starts Yoshi goes airborne bair into tilt. There's the main one, my option which most don't know is coming is a Draconic Reverse approach, with like dsmash for example. It works, trust me, I pull it off frequently. And the third wouldn't actually be an approach but some opening damage ETS off the stage and recover into Dair. Since they naturally come for you once your off the stage. Yoshi would be about mid Zelda so Usmash might ctach an edge but no serious damage.
the yoshis I play use the bair approach almost religiously... all I do is backtrack and then dash attack him when I land.
 

Oh Snap

Smash Ace
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598
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can you give some advice on toon link?

i don't fight much of them, but i nervous when i do. same when i fight metaknights.
 

RoyalBlood

Smash Ace
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
764
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:O I don´t know too much about T-Link, i just recently learned to DI out of his f***ing D-smash and F-smash ^^

He's specially annoying with his three projectiles T_T just reflect everything back at him AT LONG RANGE, you don't want to be laggy when you're very close to him :p

I have problems against Olimar and Lucario ;_;

Olimar : He has broken grab range ;_; and his grabs have broken knockback ;_; most notably with purple pikmin :O His smashes have deceiving range and you can't come from above because of his Up-smash

Lucario : NOOOOO!!! He has a lot of range, i don't know how many times his F-smash has killed me because i thought i was not in range, and the Aura Sphere has a lot of knockback at high percents :O and his jab grab is fast so he can do like 5 before you escape ;_; and his D-air sometimes outranges Up-smash T_T

And about snake, he is even with Zelda, fresh up-air kills Snake at like 87% on stages with low ceiling like Green Greens and Lightning kicks kill him about 115% ^^ Up-smash undecayed can kill him at like 130%
Zelda has no problem KOing if you save some moves for KO's :3
 

pillsbury552

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Jun 25, 2008
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To RoyalBlood: With lucario I would use his moves to his disadvantage. Aura Sphere can be reflected and so can force palm. Stay away from lucario when he has high damage, I recomend using up smash to finisg the job. But you can also throw lucario off the edge of a stage when he has high damage, edge guard and he dies. But I also had problems with lucario so get better advice.

I need help with Zero Suit Samus, her down smash gets so annoying. When I use dins my opponet dodges so whats the point, I get forced into her plasma whip and die. Her down smash racks up damage fast and once I get hit with a plasma whip I get sent flying. Would it be better to use shiek in this case?
 

RoyalBlood

Smash Ace
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
764
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Mexico
To RoyalBlood: With lucario I would use his moves to his disadvantage. Aura Sphere can be reflected and so can force palm. Stay away from lucario when he has high damage, I recomend using up smash to finisg the job. But you can also throw lucario off the edge of a stage when he has high damage, edge guard and he dies. But I also had problems with lucario so get better advice.

I need help with Zero Suit Samus, her down smash gets so annoying. When I use dins my opponet dodges so whats the point, I get forced into her plasma whip and die. Her down smash racks up damage fast and once I get hit with a plasma whip I get sent flying. Would it be better to use shiek in this case?
0_0 Force Palm can be reflected =O *did not know FP could be reflected*

and about ZSS, when she uses D-smash, button mash so you can get out of the stun, well i think it works, ans if you're coming from above or you're sent flying, watch out for Up-B, it can meteor you :O and you can DI out of her plasma whip so you don't get hit by the tip, since plasma whip does two hits, the first hit which is in the middle of the whip which pushes you to the tip, although i don't remember which direction to DI 0_0
 
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