I am making a guide video

[Zankoku]

Yeah, I'm finally starting on something I said I'd do a while ago. For an idea of how it'll look, here's a little screenshot preview:

With that said, this project will get done a lot faster if people can provide clips of Sheik's various stuff for me. Youtube videos are fine, but I prefer the high-quality originals if you have them (you can upload with MegaUpload, or something). If you're interested in contributing a clip, post the link and time of when you're doing it. I need clips of the following things:

Nair
- Early autocanceled
- Late
- Crossup
Fair
Bair
- Autocanceled
- Crossup

Anti-Air Zoning
- Bair
- Ftilt
- Dtilt
- Utilt
Anti-Ground Zoning
- Ftilt
- Dtilt
Chain-camping

Shield Punish Options
- Grab
- Dsmash
- Ftilt
- Nair
- Jab

Ftilt lock clips
Edgeguarding clips

Let's get this thing going. : P

 

[rinoH]

good luck on the video too bad i dont ahve any vids of my sheik

 

[saviorslegacy]

That's it... put everything down so people can use it against us. <,<

 

[-Mars-]

For the edge guarding clips, wouldn't Gimpy's combo video from a while back have a lot of good stff in there that could be used?

 

[Zankoku]

Gimpy's stuff is really freestyle and half of them involved SDing because he was so far beyond his opponent in terms of skill that he could afford to mess around. The main point of this video is to cover Sheik's basic options in-depth so that newer players picking up Sheik can have a strong starting point. Telling them to fair fair double-jump fair fair Vanish SD won't do that.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Gimpy's stuff is really freestyle and half of them involved SDing because he was so far beyond his opponent in terms of skill that he could afford to mess around. The main point of this video is to cover Sheik's basic options in-depth so that newer players picking up Sheik can have a strong starting point. Telling them to fair fair double-jump fair fair Vanish SD won't do that.

I put her options from each attack onto one picture.

If you want to cover edge guarding then you have Needles, chain, Nair, Fair, Bair and Vanish. Possibly even DSmash.


IMO... putting this on a video is a mistake. Now everyone can look at her options, find a weak point easily and then expose us. "Keep it secret, keep it safe!" -Gandalf
If you want to make one go ahead but at least leave some stuff out. Oh, and name it "how to beat Sheik".

(I wanted to do this a long time ago, but I didn't due to two reasons.) (#1 I was inexperienced, #2 read the above and try to guess it.....)
This is a mistake.

 

[Lythium]

I disagree. Making a video guide is an excellent idea. The Sheik boards don't really have any resources for new players or players trying to pick up Sheik.

In my opinion, this could really benefit the Sheik community.

 

[<π]

SL sheik isn't so 2dimentional that watch a guide to play her will mess make you any more effective against a competent sheik. I tell people how to beat me and still win matches. Don't be 2dementional in your approaches and punish errors and holes... thats sheik.

Sounds good to me ankoku. I'll get so awesome footage up at some point.

 

[SinkingHigher]

Rofl @ keeping things a secret. Please tell me you're not serious. That is by far the dumbest thing I've ever heard on SWF. Which is saying something.

You really think that making things difficult for Sheiks who can't follow written guides as well as video guides is going to be helpful? You really think people are going to come into the Sheik boards looking for a way to "expose" us? What, are we faking all our moves or something? It's not like Sheik has somehow showed up as God Tier by some happy accident because people thought we now have some 0-death combo that works on everyone.

*sighhhhhhhhh*

Ankoku, I think this is an excellent idea. I'd be glad to help but all I have is ****ty quality WiFi footage. Should I chance upon some awesome clips of Sheik, though, I'll post them here.

 

[<π]

lol, poor SL.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Rofl @ keeping things a secret. Please tell me you're not serious. That is by far the dumbest thing I've ever heard on SWF. Which is saying something.

You really think that making things difficult for Sheiks who can't follow written guides as well as video guides is going to be helpful? You really think people are going to come into the Sheik boards looking for a way to "expose" us? What, are we faking all our moves or something? It's not like Sheik has somehow showed up as God Tier by some happy accident because people thought we now have some 0-death combo that works on everyone.

*sighhhhhhhhh*

Ankoku, I think this is an excellent idea. I'd be glad to help but all I have is ****ty quality WiFi footage. Should I chance upon some awesome clips of Sheik, though, I'll post them here.

When I play better players and I use mor high risk high rewar later I get punished. High risk high reward usally means a longer combo. They work at fisrt so it can get you a lead but then you have to change to the stuff that makes her less punishable.

If this is made high risk high reward will be out the window. It will be like "here is the beat half of Sheik rundown". -_-

Did I mention the 30/40 to death Saltus combo?

lol, poor SL.

 

[SinkingHigher]

I have no idea what you're talking about with the reward/risk crap. You need to stop with the 3/4 bucket full of water analogies.

that "combo" of "yours", doesn't that only work on a few select mid-tiers..?

Can ONE important Sheik just tell me if that combo works or not? A simple yes or no. After checking with the thread it seems like 35 or so pages later it's still being tested, and judging by the video, I'd say there are a lot of gaps.

 

[<π]

SL you need to try to attend tourneys. See if you can get rides to tourneys in the area if your folks won't let give you a ride.

I don't think you understand yet dude. They don't work at first. low risk is high reward.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I have no idea what you're talking about with the reward/risk crap. You need to stop with the 3/4 bucket full of water analogies.

that "combo" of "yours", doesn't that only work on a few select mid-tiers..?

Can ONE important Sheik just tell me if that combo works or not? A simple yes or no. After checking with the thread it seems like 35 or so pages later it's still being tested, and judging by the video, I'd say there are a lot of gaps.

I am talking about something like: Bair shield poke to continue a combo. That wont work after they know what you are doing. Or even Vanish ledge guard. They will predict that. The Swan Combo, they will predict that. Other decay combo's... they will also get predicted.

G&W and Oli as well bucko. I also think it works on Lucario.

 

[-Mars-]

Where the f*** are all of these stupid names for your liittle combos coming from? Oh and who the hell names combos?

 

[stealth3654]

I think this is a really good idea. The Mario boards are doing it, and it is SO much better than reading a guide and then actually trying it. I'll get some clips when I can.

Also, Ankoku, can you include a section for chain locks and when to use them during a match?

Edit: Here is the Mario video guide (WIP): http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227634

 

[Zankoku]

I'm really only covering the basics.... chain-locking seems to be a bit too much of a situational for me to include it.

 

[gm jack]

However, I suggest at least a very quick demonstration of chain guarding. Depending on the match up, it can wreck recoveries from below the stage.

 

[Zankoku]

Chain guarding is a viable option as an edgeguard as well as ledge pressure, so yeah I'll be covering that.

 

[Judo777]

SL the sheik boards can't intentionally not post stuff and hope that other non-sheik players don't find out. Relying on an opponent's ignorance is not a good strategy.

 

[saviorslegacy]

SL the sheik boards can't intentionally not post stuff and hope that other non-sheik players don't find out. Relying on an opponent's ignorance is not a good strategy.

lol, yes they can

Who said I was relying on it? I just don't want people taking away some of her options by us exploiting every option so an opponent can make a chart that counters each action easily. I like it better when people aren't smart. (Before you say "idiot.. you are relying on this I want you to talk to the people who I play and that know how to beat Sheik). It just makes her lose an edge. But whatever, Ankoku is smart enough for the rest of us. He can make the decisions.

 

[-Mars-]

lol, yes they can

Who said I was relying on it? I just don't want people taking away some of her options by us exploiting every option so an opponent can make a chart that counters each action easily. I like it better when people aren't smart. (Before you say "idiot.. you are relying on this I want you to talk to the people who I play and that know how to beat Sheik). It just makes her lose an edge. But whatever, Ankoku is smart enough for the rest of us. He can make the decisions.

You are one of the dumbest posters I have ever come across...........and there have been some pretty bad ones even on this specific board.

What edge are you referring to? This is just a video covering the basics of Sheik...........this isn't an advanced video. Anyone you come across is going to know about things such as crossups on shield and things like that because it ISNT CHARACTER SPECIFIC. Oh and the things that are character specific in this video will only be basics anyways so it's not going to "let all of Sheiks secret stuff out". Even if it was an advanced guide tournament players willl already know most of the aspects of all of their matchups so it matters little.

 

[saviorslegacy]

You are one of the dumbest posters I have ever come across...........and there have been some pretty bad ones even on this specific board.

What edge are you referring to? This is just a video covering the basics of Sheik...........this isn't an advanced video. Anyone you come across is going to know about things such as crossups on shield and things like that because it ISNT CHARACTER SPECIFIC. Oh and the things that are character specific in this video will only be basics anyways so it's not going to "let all of Sheiks secret stuff out". Even if it was an advanced guide tournament players willl already know most of the aspects of all of their matchups so it matters little.

Since you and others don't get what I am saying I will spell it out.

Lets say you are showing every option Sheik has at a ledge guard.
*they would be*

Fair
Bair
DSmash
Nair
Needle's
Chain
Vanish

I'm afraid people will be like "so easy to counter... that's all she has?"

Fair (counter with a high priority)
Bair (counter with a high priority)
DSmash (go high)
Nair (counter with a high priority)
Needle's (DI into them to recover)
Chain (go high)
Vanish (know where it goes and avoid it)

"That means I just need to go out of Chain and use an airial to recover and she can't do squat." "I also have a good chance of recovery if I can grab the ledge quickly."
That is really easy to find out when you see everything down in front of you.

you can also say
*ground game*
Needle's
space with Bair, Fair and Nair
f-tilt
d-tilt
jab
dash attack

"pffffft... I see a big gap there."

Needle's (shield/go to the air)
space with Bair, Fair and Nair (Nair is crappy for spacing compared to Bair. Fair has a short range. So all yo gotta do is shield grab that Bair.)
f-tilt (shield grab)
d-tilt (shield grab)
jab (pretty much worthless)
dash attack (shield grab)

"If I play smart with shield grab she is screwed."


*How to beat Sheik (the watered down version)*
"Shield grab smart and recover high."




^^^^^^ that was what I was afraid of. Now I am a Sheik player and you can get past this stuff... it just makes your fights a LOT harder (thus losing some of your edge). Well... what I was afraid of is out of the bag. Go ahead... it would be nice for new Sheiks (as everyone else has stated).


:EDIT:
@ Marsulas
I know most tourney people will know this. I just don't want it braodcasted (like the USmash jazz).

 

[Judo777]

lol, yes they can

Who said I was relying on it? I just don't want people taking away some of her options by us exploiting every option so an opponent can make a chart that counters each action easily. I like it better when people aren't smart. (Before you say "idiot.. you are relying on this I want you to talk to the people who I play and that know how to beat Sheik). It just makes her lose an edge. But whatever, Ankoku is smart enough for the rest of us. He can make the decisions.

Well good players are gonna learn it anyway especially if a sheik is good enough to give top players problems. The only difference is we won't know how to compensate for them knowing our weaknesses. And also good players will be smart.

 

[Zankoku]

stuff

lol... are you serious? Your post is the equivalent of saying "Sheik is really bad, and the only reason why people don't realize this is because they're probably dumb. Maybe if we ignore everything Sheik has nobody else will figure it out either!"

Go back to playing Pit, as you're better off using a character that you actually have faith in.

 

[saviorslegacy]

lol... are you serious? Your post is the equivalent of saying "Sheik is really bad, and the only reason why people don't realize this is because they're probably dumb. Maybe if we ignore everything Sheik has nobody else will figure it out either!"

Go back to playing Pit, as you're better off using a character that you actually have faith in.

I like what you quoted.

Now I am a Sheik player and you can get past this stuff... it just makes your fights a LOT harder (thus losing some of your edge).

You need to reread my post cuz you missed a little tid bit of information. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[stealth3654]

Hiding information can only get you so far. It may work for one, maybe two, tournaments and that's it. People will see you do stuff in tournaments that they didn't know Sheik can do (ex: Grab release > DACUS). So what they do is after the tournament they go on Smash Boards, learn what Sheik can do, and BAM it's just like we made a guide about it.

 

[Zankoku]

It really shouldn't even work for one tournament, if you regularly play Sheik with people in friendlies. I don't know what kind of paranoid optimism saviors is tripping on , but making a video about the fact that Sheik can edgeguard with her aerials being the first instance of revealing this "secret" (you know, ignoring the fact that it's practically the same as Sheik's edgeguarding from Melee) is really hilarious.

Maybe it's based on some sort of assumption that nobody who plays Brawl has any grasp of the fundamentals.

 

[Shaya]

Sheik's been edge guarding with bair for 500 years.

Just because the pillars of high-level players that existed in melee times (wait... who?) left without really forgoing the 'basic ****' knowledge to you guys, you act like it's a secret.

Smashboards, and specifically character boards, aren't out to make secrets, keep things hidden, it's meant to advance the metagame. But guess what? Even if it has taken 500 years for the sheik boards to decide to make an epic video to accompany the basics I doubt anyone who's played melee will be like WHATS THIS BACK AIR AERIAL THING O **** EDGEGUARDED "TIS THE NEW METAKNIGHTZ".

Next point...
People who are idiots are idiots. They may see something, they may read something; and if they're an idiot they still won't know how to handle it if you're the better and or smarter player. REALITY hurts.

 

[saviorslegacy]

If I remember correctly we where talking about how Armada won at his tourney cuz people didn't know how to play Sheik.

If you don't like my reason then fine. I already know what everyone is saying. Keep on saying the same thing over and over by different people isn't gonna help.


ps Make a special video showing how to use the Chain correctly.

 

[gm jack]

If I remember correctly we where talking about how Armada won at his tourney cuz people didn't know how to play Sheik.

If you don't like my reason then fine. I already know what everyone is saying. Keep on saying the same thing over and over by different people isn't gonna help.


ps Make a special video showing how to use the Chain correctly.

The point is that we discuss all the stuff that is likely to be in the video anyway. So it is a bit more high profile, who cares? Sheik isn't a big tournament character, so only the most dedicated people with good Sheiks in the area are actually going to bother to find the information out and be able to use it.

Having secrets isn't a big deal. The more aware we are of the bad points of the character, the quicker we can find solutions.

To use your example of recovering high and shield grabbing, aren't they generally smart things to do against the vast majority of the cast? If you need to, you can fast fall and move out if you are going to get intercepted in the air. If they keep shield grabbing you, either grab them back or bait them into attacking or grabbing. A lot of characters get punished by shield grabbing, you just have to play it smart.

 

[saviorslegacy]

The point is that we discuss all the stuff that is likely to be in the video anyway. So it is a bit more high profile, who cares? Sheik isn't a big tournament character, so only the most dedicated people with good Sheiks in the area are actually going to bother to find the information out and be able to use it.

Having secrets isn't a big deal. The more aware we are of the bad points of the character, the quicker we can find solutions.

To use your example of recovering high and shield grabbing, aren't they generally smart things to do against the vast majority of the cast? If you need to, you can fast fall and move out if you are going to get intercepted in the air. If they keep shield grabbing you, either grab them back or bait them into attacking or grabbing. A lot of characters get punished by shield grabbing, you just have to play it smart.

Meh, forget it... I kinda jumped the gun. These little guides is what I use to learn match ups and I didn't want people to do the same to Kokies video.

What iuf there isn't a solution/the solution takes to much trouble.

Not always... Ike, Kirby, Olimar, Pike, MK, Snake and others are good at taking care of high recoveries.
Shield grabbimg is a weakness and the only way past it is Bair (you have to space it perfect), Chain (start up lag lol), Needles (way to much after lag) and grab (punishable). It is hard for Sheik to take down overly deffensive people.

 

[Judo777]

If sheik has some weakness that cripples her that much and cant be compensated for then there is no hope so why even bother. I don't think she does so im not worried about it. Also isn't crossing someone up and a canceled nair to jab a method of not getting grabbed?

 

[<π]

Not always... Ike, Kirby, Olimar, Pike, MK, Snake and others are good at taking care of high recoveries.

umm... generally you don't want to recover high with sheik. you are going to get way more distance by saving your jump and using it as you near the blast zone then upBing since sheiks recover is mostly vertical. The big exception to this are when you are getting edge gaurded and you want to avoid getting hit. then you use sheiks B moves to compensate for her lack of disjointedness and range in her attacks.
I mean the B moves invulnerability frames to get through your opponent's attack and back on stage. Geranally sheik is always going to have a number of different ways to recover even when she is very low thats why you can recover low comfortably with her and why you generally don't with some of the other characters in the game.

Shield grabbimg is a weakness and the only way past it is Bair (you have to space it perfect), Chain (start up lag lol), Needles (way to much after lag) and grab (punishable). It is hard for Sheik to take down overly defensive people.

false... well.. true I guess... no one is immune to sheild grabs (or some other type of punishment OOS) But needles(when you aren't directly on top of and in front of your opponent) bair, fair, nair and even jab and ftilt are great answers to a lot of characters in sheild. Grab as you mentioned also beats sheild and sheiks grab is so fast the only way you can beat it is to guess when it is coming, normally with a spot dodge or roll.

Now I try to use grabs when sheilding is the only option my opponent has. after landing from empty or lagless aerials, after low percent ftilts and jabs, after an air dodge into the ground etc.

And while at first glance shield may seem unbeatable; options are extremely limited by them, you can literally wait while people are in sheild and on sight punish what they try or wait for sheild poke/sheild break options while they are sitting in sheild.

sheik has no issue with the shield of most characters. D3, Charizard and DK are the only big problems for her and even those can be presured very easily from behind.

 

[saviorslegacy]

If sheik has some weakness that cripples her that much and cant be compensated for then there is no hope so why even bother. I don't think she does so im not worried about it. Also isn't crossing someone up and a canceled nair to jab a method of not getting grabbed?

Combo's that seriously damage people is what makes up for this. You can also get past her weakness's with enough skill and or (dare I say it) the MG word.

umm... generally you don't want to recover high with sheik. you are going to get way more distance by saving your jump and using it as you near the blast zone then upBing since sheiks recover is mostly vertical. The big exception to this are when you are getting edge gaurded and you want to avoid getting hit. then you use sheiks B moves to compensate for her lack of disjointedness and range in her attacks.
I mean the B moves invulnerability frames to get through your opponent's attack and back on stage. Geranally sheik is always going to have a number of different ways to recover even when she is very low thats why you can recover low comfortably with her and why you generally don't with some of the other characters in the game.

false... well.. true I guess... no one is immune to sheild grabs (or some other type of punishment OOS) But needles(when you aren't directly on top of and in front of your opponent) bair, fair, nair and even jab and ftilt are great answers to a lot of characters in sheild. Grab as you mentioned also beats sheild and sheiks grab is so fast the only way you can beat it is to guess when it is coming, normally with a spot dodge or roll.

Now I try to use grabs when sheilding is the only option my opponent has. after landing from empty or lagless aerials, after low percent ftilts and jabs, after an air dodge into the ground etc.

And while at first glance shield may seem unbeatable; options are extremely limited by them, you can literally wait while people are in sheild and on sight punish what they try or wait for sheild poke/sheild break options while they are sitting in sheild.

sheik has no issue with the shield of most characters. D3, Charizard and DK are the only big problems for her and even those can be presured very easily from behind.

TY <3.. you always have the answers when I'm down....


Not you recovering high.. the opponent.

It still make it harder. You can get around the shielding... it is just a pain and I want to rip someone's head off when I play a heavily defensive D3 with Sheik! IT IS A PAIN IS THE ****ING ***!!!!!!!

 

[<π]

OH~ okay that makes more sense... no sheik is well suited for knocking people out of the sky spare like... GaW.

You fair, they dodge you fair again and hit while they are still in the dodge animation. sheik is way too fast. on opponents dodging down to the ground like I said go for grabs and such or you can force a dodge with utilt and hit with the second part as they come out of the dodge or hit the ground. utilt has crazy priority I'm convinced it is disjointed. shiek may not punish as hard as some of the cast but she can always punish and thats her biggest strong point.


D3... presure him from behind and throw needles. who cares if he sheilds, lol. once you get a grab or ftilt off you are set because you destory him in the air, even with bair he isn't going to be able to get a move out fast enough and because of his slow lateral speed he can't out run you up there either he is always going to come down with a bair once he is out of jump and you can always punish that with a sheild grab a well placed ftilt or needles. if he is playing defensive you do the same he can't out camp you.

 

[saviorslegacy]

OH~ okay that makes more sense... no sheik is well suited for knocking people out of the sky spare like... GaW.

You fair, they dodge you fair again and hit while they are still in the dodge animation. sheik is way too fast. on opponents dodging down to the ground like I said go for grabs and such or you can force a dodge with utilt and hit with the second part as they come out of the dodge or hit the ground. utilt has crazy priority I'm convinced it is disjointed. shiek may not punish as hard as some of the cast but she can always punish and thats her biggest strong point.


D3... presure him from behind and throw needles. who cares if he sheilds, lol. once you get a grab or ftilt off you are set because you destory him in the air, even with bair he isn't going to be able to get a move out fast enough and because of his slow lateral speed he can't out run you up there either he is always going to come down with a bair once he is out of jump and you can always punish that with a sheild grab a well placed ftilt or needles. if he is playing defensive you do the same he can't out camp you.

Wait... what do we have on G&W?

I don't think Fair works like this. It has to mush after lag and people can DI by then. I do however force an air dodge with Fair> FF> u-tilt.

*jumps over D3.. gets u-tilted* -_-
*rolls behind D3.. D3 rolls away* -_-
*Vanishes behind D3.. kills self for being stupid... dies* -_-
*goes high to get behind him.. D3 rolls away* -_-
*hits with Nair/Bair while FF to the ground behind D3.. D3 rolls before Sheik can do anything* -_-
*rips dude's head off out of anger!!!!*

I have tried this... no working me thinks.

 

[<π]

Most GaWs are gonna get on stage with dair. while possible it a difficult to counter that on reaction with anything we have it is too fast and disjointed and GaW van move left and right while doing it.

fair is like 28 frames totals most air dodges are 50+ frames I think...

SL Did you just say you use vanish to approach? I'll try and get vids up... from this saterday tourney... If I go.

 

[gm jack]

*jumps over D3.. gets u-tilted* -_-
*rolls behind D3.. D3 rolls away* -_-
*Vanishes behind D3.. kills self for being stupid... dies* -_-
*goes high to get behind him.. D3 rolls away* -_-
*hits with Nair/Bair while FF to the ground behind D3.. D3 rolls before Sheik can do anything* -_-
*rips dude's head off out of anger!!!!*
.

If you are playing defensive, charge needles and punish him for a bad Waddle Dee throw. He can eat 18% every time he does that. If you want to get close, be a bit grab happy. Every time you don't think he has time to attack you, grab him. The only thing he will have when you are that close is a dodge, which you can then punish as you please.

DDD is a simple, but effective character. You attack, he shield grabs you and then chain grabs you as much as he can. However, in air, all he has is (an admittedly awesome) Bair. If you can keep him in the air, there is not much he can do. Just expect most to shield grab a lot, so grab them back, or just run through them and shield pressure from behind.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Most GaWs are gonna get on stage with dair. while possible it a difficult to counter that on reaction with anything we have it is too fast and disjointed and GaW van move left and right while doing it.

fair is like 28 frames totals most air dodges are 50+ frames I think...

SL Did you just say you use vanish to approach? I'll try and get vids up... from this saterday tourney... If I go.

Ah hah.. got ya. I didn't think you could do that. That is why you FF cancel it and then use f-tilt.

Yes I did say Vanish as an approach... it sucks. <,<