Official Hyrule Hangout - Sheik Social

[Rizen]

I decided to learn the Pro controller since GCController adapters are so hard to find. Can someone wifi me and help me learn Sheik?
Also how exactly does bouncing fish work?

 

[OoohShiny]

bouncing fish one of sheiks effective smash attacks, and probably the hardest to hit attack in the game, you have to hit with your feet the enemy, and he can fly away. (Its Sheiks best attack to keep enemies from recovering once they flew away)

 

[Tristan_win]

bouncing fish is sheiks only remotely effective smash attack, and probably the hardest to hit attack in the game, you have to hit excactly the enemys upper body, and he can fly away. (Its like a normal attack for any other character, but since sheik is useless and does pretty much nothing its a strong attack for her) -
Its so funny how how people actually tried to convince me Sheik is good, but in like 500 games online i saw excactly 1 sheik besides me xD

Well due to the fact you can true combo into bouncing fish on some characters and it can be used to punish the majority of spam friendly attacks like Samus neutral B or Megaman everything I would argue until I turn blue in the face it's not. I think Ganon up tilt would deserve that 'honor'.

I think you miss written or your confused about bouncing fish though. You can land bouncing fish on any part of your opponent, it doesn't have to be on their upper body. The move it self also has a huge hit box and can even explode bomb bombs safely from a far.


Listen, what makes Sheik so good is her ability to deny people to recover once hit off stage, her ability to force her opponent to respond to her and then punish their response, and of course her outstanding combo game. Due to how reactionary Sheik is by design she suffers greatly from lag which is why characters like Ganon are actually somewhat threatening online but you almost never seen them in tournaments. This could play a part to why you see so few Sheik, although from my own personal experiences it's not nearly as bad as what you stated. I suggest to you to watch some gameplay videos of some good Sheik players before you completely give up on her. The Sheik boards video thread has a good catalog of videos, that would be a good place to start.


....With that all said, please don't bring your outstanding negative outlook on Sheik here. If you don't have anything constructive to add then keep it to yourself.

 

[OoohShiny]

Well, youre right, but its hard keeping a positive attitude when 50% of my online matches are against the same 5 characters (ZS Samus, Lucina, Lil Mac, Ike, Diddy Kong) - and it just feels messed up when i hit like 6 times, and the enemy once and we are even in % again, or losing a life when youre flying from the center of the map because you were at 60%.
-but youre right I will try being positive in the future and edit my previous post accordingly.
Ive started the off-platform thingy you said shes quiet good at, and its seriously hard, but had couple of satisfying experiences.
The lagg COULD be a reason, but honestly, it feels like the SSB wii u server are pretty good, and laggwise i dont feel like i have much trouble playin like i would in normal games.
I seriously love her playstyle, after getting used to her i started to dislike all those clunky characters, suddenly the game felt like playin in slowmotion when i didnt choose her.
And yet it just feels unfair in a couple situations - i dont know how to deal with characters who are using lots and lots of counter attacks, and characters who are using their range to play me out. (Everybody with a sword, especially Link, but ZS Samus too) - and i would really appreciaty couple of pieces of advice.
Is sheik easier to play with a GB controller? because im using a wii u controller - But it sounds like everyone is using a GC Controller and id like to know why.

 

[Wasserwipf]

Well, youre right, but its hard keeping a positive attitude when 50% of my online matches are against the same 5 characters (ZS Samus, Lucina, Lil Mac, Ike, Diddy Kong) - and it just feels messed up when i hit like 6 times, and the enemy once and we are even in % again, or losing a life when youre flying from the center of the map because you were at 60%.
-but youre right I will try being positive in the future and edit my previous post accordingly.
Ive started the off-platform thingy you said shes quiet good at, and its seriously hard, but had couple of satisfying experiences.
The lagg COULD be a reason, but honestly, it feels like the SSB wii u server are pretty good, and laggwise i dont feel like i have much trouble playin like i would in normal games.
I seriously love her playstyle, after getting used to her i started to dislike all those clunky characters, suddenly the game felt like playin in slowmotion when i didnt choose her.
And yet it just feels unfair in a couple situations - i dont know how to deal with characters who are using lots and lots of counter attacks, and characters who are using their range to play me out. (Everybody with a sword, especially Link, but ZS Samus too) - and i would really appreciaty couple of pieces of advice.
Is sheik easier to play with a GB controller? because im using a wii u controller - But it sounds like everyone is using a GC Controller and id like to know why.

Now thats the right attitude. Ok, I'll get trough this.
First things first, Sheik does not kill with her Smash attacks. except you know how to use them. Sweepspot Uair, Dair roll-read, Fsmash roll read. You can do better than that. Downthrow Upair. Upair in general. Bouncng Fish. Especially offstage. Vanish and thus Vanish gliding. In the higher %, Backair, and when theyre really high 180%+ (what actually happens alot) never underestimate your Ftilt and Fair. Ok, just wanted to get rid of that. Now to your actual questions.

The % thing, well look at it from this angle. They hit you 5 times and you're at 60%. You get in once, get a combo, momentum, and theyre at 120%. Who is unfair now? Of course, Sheik need to Work alot harder to get the results, but not only does she have the tools to work so hard, she has tools to work even harder, and thats where she shines.

We have a matchup thread here on smashboards, there is some useful info, so I'll keep this short.
You're faster then ZSS. Use that to your adventage. You can crouch some of her moves, and shield/avoid the others. Learn your own range as well. Lucina is combo fodder once you get in, as she has no close range defense options and she cannot approach you. Throw Needles. For little mac, throw needles, wait for him to approach, dodge, Grab, backthrow offstage gimp. Recharge needles. Ike... learn his heavy hitting attacks and don't get hit by them anymore. Then... let him approach. Throw needles. Punish him for every thing he does. You're faster then him, let him feel that. And once he get's hit, don't even give him time to move anymore. Diddy kong... dont get hit and again, needles. Basicly, use needles. Same goes for Link. Your projectile is better then his.. well use BF. Learn to powershield to avoid projectile spam, get in, combo forever. Link, again, has almost no options once you're close.

Sidenote, Sm4sh works, afaik, over P2P (Wikipedia link. I love Wikipedia), so nintendos servers have nothing to do with your connection. It's only yours and your opponents.

GC controller is classic, thats why most people are using them. but actually, the controller does not matter. I've said that before, I'll say it again. I've seen people do good on wii motes. I would, maybe, switch to a pro controller. Imo it hurts less after playing long... and it's battery lifetime is gigantic. But as said, Controller does not matter. Not at all. Play with what you feel most confortable with. I had people over here that insited on using their 3ds as a controller on the wiiU version... even tho I have like 7 GCC lying around&ready to be used.

Ok, wall of text. Tl,dr, for the MU, go here: http://smashboards.com/threads/ninj...h-up-thread-now-discussing-diddy-kong.371918/
For general info, go (and ask) here: http://smashboards.com/threads/new-...lp-with-sheik-ask-your-questions-here.381558/
I especially recommend reading the second one, as it covers lots of Sheik basics and mindset.

I can't believe I just wrote all that.... one last thing. Never, ever agian underrestimate Bouncing Fish(gif). I would say it even outshines Needles.

EDIT: I totally forgot counters. Bouncing Fish them, since its super disjoint, or, on the ground, grab them. The more counters they use the more free grabs and grab setups you get.

 

[OoohShiny]

Thanks for your advice, i appreciate it. Ive checked the guides as well but sadly there are no sheik guides so far. I dont even know how good i am - since super smash bros doesnt have a ranking system. (At least not online) -
and yeah, i am new here and dont know the common wordings, when i talked about "smash attacks" i included every attack having the potential to kick enemies off platform into the darkness of the void.
Mby someone will gather all the informations and just set up a guide for her =O
I will switch to the "Question board" for future references, Shiny over and out.

 

[Zankoku]

So this video makes me believe that Sheik's Up+B isn't as absurdly untouchable as it looked to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wpax41DC_Y

With that in mind, this also brings up possibilities for Sheik's own edgeguard game against characters who like to recover to the ledge.

 

[Kenith]

So I decided to use Sheik online today for fun since her white-haired palette was the closest I will ever get to Ghirahim in Smash.

But, uh, wow, holy **** Sheik is so much fun. I have eight other characters fighting to be my main and she has knocked out at least five of the candidates. I am loving this character. So, I'm pretty certain that as far as competitive play goes I'll be using her over Lucario/Lucina/Rosalina.

I'm going to be hanging out here alot, and any general tips on using Sheik would be appreciated. For example, I have a hard time figuring out when to use Bouncing Fish, and Burst Grenade is tricky as well.

 

[Rizen]

My Sheik sucks. Can anyone wifi and give me some pointers?

 

[Tristan_win]

So this video makes me believe that Sheik's Up+B isn't as absurdly untouchable as it looked to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wpax41DC_Y

With that in mind, this also brings up possibilities for Sheik's own edgeguard game against characters who like to recover to the ledge.

I'm actually pretty glad this is a thing. The ledge grab range always bugged so now knowing if we throw out a nair or a well time bair over the edge we are guaranteed to hit them is good as I can start blaming myself again and not the game.

It makes the game much better, although I wish they didn't get their jumps back.

 

[Kenith]

It seems like I fair better with fast melee characters (Sonic, Sheik) and campy characters (Robin, Samus, Rosalina) when I use the Wii Remote + Nunchuk controls vs. technical characters like Lucario, Lucina, and Captain Falcon. I really need a GCN controller.

Although Sheik seems to be the best of both worlds: she has multiple projectiles, can combo, and is really fast. I'm actually pretty excited to be using her, since I finally have a Zelda character main.

 

[Profanity]

So, Sheik has kind of turned into my main.

I'm East Coast USA and looking to improve. I would love if anyone would be willing to play me to level up.

BHC-Prof is my Wii U name, B3.Prof is my Skype.

 

[Artmastercorey]

Hello I was wondering if any sheiks could give advice for what toonlink can do to help defeat her. Seems like toons combos get interrupted and he gets a lot of hitstun when sent into the air without really being able to retaliate quick enough. Does she have an apparent weakness because killing doesnt seem to be one for the light toonlink.

 

[TKD]

/\ I think it's complicated... "How to beat Sheik" would be its own entire thread.
You could watch this and take your own ideas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G0Zq1a1KIg

Winner Finals of the past local here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdMDZ32O8uc

No Fox/Falco ravaging my virginity away like in Melee, no sucky recovery like in Brawl... I think we're viable now!

I'm a proud Sheik main.

 

[Asdioh]

Guys. People keep calling Sheik's attacks 'swords' implying they have big disjoints. What are her disjointed moves, and if possible, roughly how disjointed are they? I couldn't find anything on this board, aside from this gif showing the disjoint on bouncing fish. I'm assuming F-air is disjointed?

 

[TKD]

Guys. People keep calling Sheik's attacks 'swords' implying they have big disjoints. What are her disjointed moves, and if possible, roughly how disjointed are they? I couldn't find anything on this board, aside from this gif showing the disjoint on bouncing fish. I'm assuming F-air is disjointed?

I didn't know it was disjointed; nevermind that much. Thank you, I love you

Oh, and they probably mean the fair. Its hitbox is like twice the size it was in previous games; while Sheik's bodybox extends more or less the same. Maybe Sakurai/Namco decided it was too hard to land?

 

[saviorslegacy]

I got a Sheik tattoo as a Christmas present to me.

What do you guys think?

 

[TKD]

I got a Sheik tattoo as a Christmas present to me.

What do you guys think?

Excellent. Excellent!

 

[Tristan_win]

I got a Sheik tattoo as a Christmas present to me.

What do you guys think?

On another note, Savior you lost a lot of weight over the years!

 

[Asdioh]

I didn't know it was disjointed; nevermind that much. Thank you, I love you

Oh, and they probably mean the fair. Its hitbox is like twice the size it was in previous games; while Sheik's bodybox extends more or less the same. Maybe Sakurai/Namco decided it was too hard to land?

I got it from here, your own board >=( http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...-and-tricks-wii-u.371988/page-7#post-18136345
this post makes sheik look so op wtf

So nobody seems to know for sure if her Fair is disjointed? @Shaya do you know? I believe it was you who posted about it in competitive impressions. I believe the best I've done was trade hits with it with kirby's Bair, which has fairly poor range and no disjoints that I know of. I think my Nair loses to it. hmm

 

[saviorslegacy]

 

[?.?]

So I recently had a bit of a revelation concerning our lovely little she-ninja. I play competitive smash for one major reason and that is the huge reward feeling. You know the one when you do something amazing and the crowd goes hype? Anyways, with sheik I feel like this is gone partly because almost all of her stuff is autocombo city. I think this is why I enjoy playing my little puffball purin moreso than sheik. Anyways with something a bit more on-topic... I recently stage spiked my training partner with our getup attack and proceed to be like wtf? Best part is it got him out of his Up+b ledge snap (Megaman). Anyone know anything about this? The hitbox would have to be behind and below to even pull this off and maybe some poor DI on his part.

 

[saviorslegacy]

So I recently had a bit of a revelation concerning our lovely little she-ninja. I play competitive smash for one major reason and that is the huge reward feeling. You know the one when you do something amazing and the crowd goes hype? Anyways, with sheik I feel like this is gone partly because almost all of her stuff is autocombo city. I think this is why I enjoy playing my little puffball purin moreso than sheik. Anyways with something a bit more on-topic... I recently stage spiked my training partner with our getup attack and proceed to be like wtf? Best part is it got him out of his Up+b ledge snap (Megaman). Anyone know anything about this? The hitbox would have to be behind and below to even pull this off and maybe some poor DI on his part.

Sounds like some melee **** to me. I'll have to look into it.

 

[Rizen]

Does anyone wifi? Can you help my Sheik and help me learn the vs Sheik MU?

 

[Killtrox]

Hey everyone,

Hopefully an upcoming Sheik main here. I'm really digging her playstyle.

That being said, is Ness supposed to be a difficult matchup for Sheik? I know Sheik has an absurd aerial game, but it seemed like Ness always took priority on the air. On the ground, getting caught by a PK Fire was a confirmed grab at lower percents, typically followed by fair (which I usually managed to DI away from).

Also, what makes Ness so hard to kill? His back-throw had me gone at as low as 65%, while he managed to recover from a back-throw > bouncing fish while off-stage. In the end, I never beat the guy, with my worst match being him 2-stocking me while at ~190%. Most attempts to gimp recovery were met with attacks that prioritized and sent me far away enough for him to recover.

Furthermore, are there actual guides on vanish canceling/gliding? The videos in the related thread basically show what it is but don't show inputs or explain the situations for it.

Thanks for your time, Sheiks.

 

[Jaxas]

Are there any bread-and-butter guides on Sheik? I've searched in the guides section, but I haven't found anything on things like the specifics of the 'chaingrab' (Dthrow -> Uair (-> Jab?) -> Repeat, I believe), or the specifics on Fair strings, things like that.

If someone could point me in the right direction, that'd be great; thanks!

 

[Tristan_win]

Are there any bread-and-butter guides on Sheik? I've searched in the guides section, but I haven't found anything on things like the specifics of the 'chaingrab' (Dthrow -> Uair (-> Jab?) -> Repeat, I believe), or the specifics on Fair strings, things like that.

If someone could point me in the right direction, that'd be great; thanks!

I honestly don't blame you for having trouble finding them.

There's a fairly decent list of basic strings for sheik on the very bottom of 'Sheik compendium of advance techniques' although I'm just about to body Ftilt into Fair combo %'s on everyone.

 

[Jaxas]

I honestly don't blame you for having trouble finding them.

There's a fairly decent list of basic strings for sheik on the very bottom of 'Sheik compendium of advance techniques' although I'm just about to body Ftilt into Fair combo %'s on everyone.

Thanks, that's definitely helpful and I'll try and learn those!
Honestly though, it doesn't answer how to pull some of them off (such as Fair->Fair, is it simply Fair->Fair->DJ->Fair->Fair or do you Fair->FF->SH->Fair->FF-> or what?) which is what I'm more interested in at the moment; specifics of how to pull off different things, so I'm actually practicing them correctly.

Also, looking forward to the Ftilt->Fair %s; that'll be extremely helpful as well!

 

[Tristan_win]

Thanks, that's definitely helpful and I'll try and learn those!
Honestly though, it doesn't answer how to pull some of them off (such as Fair->Fair, is it simply Fair->Fair->DJ->Fair->Fair or do you Fair->FF->SH->Fair->FF-> or what?) which is what I'm more interested in at the moment; specifics of how to pull off different things, so I'm actually practicing them correctly.

Also, looking forward to the Ftilt->Fair %s; that'll be extremely helpful as well!

Well it's training mode which isn't exactly the best thing ever due to it missing game mechanics that a typical VS mode have but it does a decent job when it comes to getting a reference point.

To answer your question it really depends on a lot of factors so the best answer I can give is learn how to be flexible. Sometimes you will have to fair, fast fall, double jump, fair while other you will have to fair, fast fall, dash, full hop, fair and it takes either a good amount of game time to learn when to do what or extended training mode/VS mode lab work with a friend or playing two controls at once OR watching high level matches and take notes on what they are doing and try to figure out why they are doing that then.

Personally I prefer the lab as then I know without a doubt when I do X at exactly these settings it will produce Y which allows me to do Z..... Unfortunately lab work is SUPER BORING, especially if your not learning anything exciting.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Sheik is bottom tier. In ALL STAR MODE.

Just grinding out challenges, and holy hell, do high level CPUs just straight up disrespect Sheik. Even with damage bonuses from All Star, you can't KO with tilts or throws, which sucks when the CPU in contrast does perfect wombo combos and also perfect shields almost every ground move ever. /rant

 

[Asdioh]

Hey Sheets, we're gonna start discussing your matchup in the Curby board! http://smashboards.com/threads/the-true-arena-kirby-match-up-discussion-week-1-mega-man.383428/
Hopefully this is the best place to post this, and most people will look here?

also your thread title says "disccusion"

 

[MetaBhreat]

I know this seems to generally be a general discussion board, but it also says social so I though I would introduce myself here.

Hello all!
I started late in the Brawl days, and mained Falco. I caught on fast and I play frequently in small local tournaments. I plan to move on to the more competitive scene as time goes on. When Sm4sh first came out I thought I would main Falco, but I felt that Sheik actually reminded me of Brawl Falco more than Falco did. So here I am.

 

[Jaxas]

I know this seems to generally be a general discussion board, but it also says social so I though I would introduce myself here.

Hello all!
I started late in the Brawl days, and mained Falco. I caught on fast and I play frequently in small local tournaments. I plan to move on to the more competitive scene as time goes on. When Sm4sh first came out I thought I would main Falco, but I felt that Sheik actually reminded me of Brawl Falco more than Falco did. So here I am.

Huh, exact same here; only change for me is I made the local tournaments!

Honestly the biggest thing I've had trouble adjusting to is not having a Meteor/Spike, but thank god for a usable Fair!

 

[_Tree]

Hello all!
I started late in the Brawl days, and mained Falco. I caught on fast and I play frequently in small local tournaments. I plan to move on to the more competitive scene as time goes on. When Sm4sh first came out I thought I would main Falco, but I felt that Sheik actually reminded me of Brawl Falco more than Falco did. So here I am.

Welcome! Always good to see a new face. All questions concerning the character are welcome here, and if you haven't already I'd recommend checking out Savior's thread here: http://smashboards.com/threads/new-...ask-your-questions-here.381558/#post-18232522

 

[MetaBhreat]

Honestly the biggest thing I've had trouble adjusting to is not having a Meteor/Spike, but thank god for a usable Fair!

I entirely agree. Early on I SD'd so much thinking I would spike. Although, done correctly Sheik's Dair is a makeshift suicide spike. (Not reccomended)

Welcome! Always good to see a new face. All questions concerning the character are welcome here, and if you haven't already I'd recommend checking out Savior's thread here..

Thanks, I'm sure I'll have many questions as time goes on.

 

[BJN39]

Come to think of it, didn't someone on a treehouse stream pre-release mention that Bouncing Fish had a meteor hit-box? I suppose it was scrapped before the release. (perhaps to make it slightly more different from ZSS's flip kick)

 

[_Tree]

Bouncing Fish had a meteor hit-box

This would've been crazy. Especially with the ground bounce mechanics in this game.

 

[Killtrox]

On the topic of SDs, I'd like custom moves just so I could replace the grenade.

Lengthened Bouncing Fish for recovery? Actually, is grenade. Also, you plummet to your death.

 

[Tristan_win]

Come to think of it, didn't someone on a treehouse stream pre-release mention that Bouncing Fish had a meteor hit-box? I suppose it was scrapped before the release. (perhaps to make it slightly more different from ZSS's flip kick)

Yes they did and I was flipping out because of it until I got my hands on the game.

To be honest though if Sheik BF did spike she be OP as Fair into BF around 40% can string together

 

[Killtrox]

Who are you all using as secondaries in Smash 4? Which characters do you think work well as secondaries to Sheik?

I'm asking this because I understand that realistically, there are some matchups that may not go in my favor as a Sheik main, or that may go better if someone already knows how I play Sheik.

Which members of the cast do you all think are advantageous secondaries for a Sheik main?