Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Master Raven]

Hey guys. New recruit here. I just recently started playing Melee seriously and itching to get good at punching everyone's faces in.

What I want to know is what techs should a nub like myself be practicing in the beginning, and is it better to double jump to waveland on platforms or are single jumps fine? DJ seems faster.

 

[Superspright]

I prefer single jump because if they hit you out of DJ for some reason you're dead.

 

[Superspright]

That's tricky, but pretty much I hold down and back. I could be wrong, I think Linguini does it a different way, which is why he can do it more consistently than I can.

If you're really good at it you can SDI away, but SDI is usually good. If you know your opponent likes to go for rising aerial to shine then you can powershield jab punish them on most of their aerials if they misspace...otherwise I think it's good to transition to light-shield for that lessened traction. It's situational but good. Powershield is pretty important to getting that nice lowered-traction as well. ASDI stuff gets MUCH easier when your opponent's attacks knock you a mile away.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Hey guys. New recruit here. I just recently started playing Melee seriously and itching to get good at punching everyone's faces in.

What I want to know is what techs should a nub like myself be practicing in the beginning, and is it better to double jump to waveland on platforms or are single jumps fine? DJ seems faster.

doing perfect wavelands is pretty important. Learn how to do them onto platforms and on a flat ground.

 

[cptjiggles69]

Yeah i find light shield di is super helpful against spacies. i try to do it on their aerials if i can to better my position. Trying to break dj waveland habits as well since saving that jump is key. Does anybody know the exact hitboxes and frame data for ganons neutral air?

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Yeah i find light shield di is super helpful against spacies. i try to do it on their aerials if i can to better my position. Trying to break dj waveland habits as well since saving that jump is key. Does anybody know the exact hitboxes and frame data for ganons neutral air?

Both hits of nair only last for 2 frames, and the hit-boxes come out when Ganon's legs start kicking out, unlike Falcon's nair, where each kick has 5 frames.

 

[tm]

Does anybody know the exact hitboxes and frame data for ganons neutral air?

http://smashboards.com/threads/ganondorf-hitboxes-and-frame-data.303443/

At anyone: personally I think it's better to double jump from under the platform to waveland because
1. It's faster, and
2. It's easier (larger window for perfect waveland).
I can't even picture myself being in a situation where I'd want to platform dash that I might get hit out of the double jump (unless I was trying to run away from them... maybe? and even then I might want to double jump at the added risk because of its extra speed). Obviously learning both is the way to go though.

 

[Master Raven]

I actually have a harder time getting wavelands with DJ. I probably just need to get the timing on it down by practicing more consistently. It's a lot easier for me to do it on Dreamland but everywhere else it's easier for me to single jump, but I'll practice it anyway.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

http://smashboards.com/threads/ganondorf-hitboxes-and-frame-data.303443/

At anyone: personally I think it's better to double jump from under the platform to waveland because
1. It's faster, and
2. It's easier (larger window for perfect waveland).
I can't even picture myself being in a situation where I'd want to platform dash that I might get hit out of the double jump (unless I was trying to run away from them... maybe? and even then I might want to double jump at the added risk because of its extra speed). Obviously learning both is the way to go though.

Actually, I found the only stage that doing the DJ is necessary is Dreamland. Most cases, you can get a quick waveland on the platform if you do a backflip full hop (full hopping in the opposite direction you are facing so Ganon does a backflip) onto a platform, you'll stick to the platform quickly, allowing you to waveland in that period of time. It's actually safer to do it this way, and just as fast (plus it looks kind of cool too)

In my opinion, you should only DJ into a waveland if you're pretty far from your opponent, or you're invincible.

 

[Superspright]

The timing for the waveland on dreamland when forward facing and FHing is much different from his backwards jump which no-impact lands. I noticed his backwards jump is the same timing as battlefield. I don't like dreamland for this reason. I don't like having to commit to DJ ever. I like to use my wavelands to dance around, and it's kind of hard if you get hit and die.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

yeah i agree with skytch and supersight. i find dj waveland on bf or any other stage but dl to not save enough time to warrant its use. sometimes i'll dj waveland on fod if the platforms are getting high, but that's about it.

 

[Superspright]

SH works really well on FoD for the wavelands. I don't think the FoD heights go any higher than dreamland. And a lot of the heights are halves of BF, Dreamland, or Yoshi's platforms. That's why SH is so boss there. I think it's Ganondorf's best map, but also a good map for a lot of the cast.

 

[-ACE-]

http://smashboards.com/threads/ganondorf-hitboxes-and-frame-data.303443/

At anyone: personally I think it's better to double jump from under the platform to waveland because
1. It's faster, and
2. It's easier (larger window for perfect waveland).
I can't even picture myself being in a situation where I'd want to platform dash that I might get hit out of the double jump (unless I was trying to run away from them... maybe? and even then I might want to double jump at the added risk because of its extra speed). Obviously learning both is the way to go though.

http://youtu.be/_yYDzLUH1NE#t=1m40s

Seriously. I agree 100%

 

[Superspright]

double post ;(((

 

[Coastward]

im with tm and ace on this one. maybe its muscle memory for me at this point, but i honestly think its faster.

 

[Linguini]

I used to do the double jump waveland a lot but imo the single jump is better (only because it looks cooler). I liked the dj to counterattack with waveland bairs. Don't think either one is faster than the other.

 

[-ACE-]

I'd sh** a brick if dj'ing doesnt make it faster by at least a frame (you are using the initial part of your first jump as well as the initial part of the dj both of which are fast, instead of the upward speed of the single jump slowing down slightly before you get high enough to waveland) but I could be wrong. But like tm said I don't really try to jump to a platform much if I think I'll get hit, but in some of those riskier cases I'll opt for the single jump.

 

[Honest Ham]

I never once thought to try dj'ing to reach a platform quicker, even on dreamland. Is it worth it on maps with lower side platforms like yoshi's too, or just maps where the single jump takes too long?

Also, what's ganon's best map not taking character matchup into consideration?

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Not taking matchup into consideration, Battlefield is Ganon's best stage. He's able to do a lot of quick technical things on that stage faster than on Dreamland and not exactly like Yoshi's, plus it's small enough to still be able to control space. ]

Dreamland comes in at a close second though, same goes for Yoshi's Story.

 

[cptjiggles69]

Anyone messing with the up air hitboxes for juggling? I think tipman spike hitbox works well on carrying spacies , and especially ice climbers

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I'm not sure about you guys, but sometimes I actually mix it up a bit in terms of DJ vs full hop waveland. I waveland... a lot, mostly using the DJ because it is slightly faster, but then I become predictable, so sometimes just doing a full hop waveland actually does the trick because they know that a quick double jump = waveland and have gotten used to that animation.

Like Linguini said though, DJ waveland bair to counter attack is really good because it's faster. It's pretty good if you're by the edge and a falcon is gonna come in with a knee. Reverses the situation entirely and falcon is left to be edge guarded by ganon (never a good thing for falcon).

So who's going to Big House again? Kage and tm, are you going? I always seem to improve a little bit whenever there are good ganons in the vicinity. I'm really gonna try hard to make it, but it depends on the release of my website... so I guess I better start crunching.

 

[Linguini]

Battlefield is great as well as yoshi's. Pokemon would be good if the transformations weren't so ****ty with ganon lol. I personally like it because imo the platforms are the best in the game for ganon wavelanding

 

[Coastward]

might be at a doubles event tomorrow, ill try to get footage and see if its useful for watching over and learning.

ganon is ****ing top tier in doubles just saying

 

[MosthatedinNC]

match-ups aside, when you're having trouble closing out stocks on someone yoshi's is the goto CP. I like FD and BF as ganon too. In general I've always liked yoshi's though despite what char i'm playing cuz it's less stage to control and more incentive to attack.

 

[Renth]

might be at a doubles event tomorrow, ill try to get footage and see if its useful for watching over and learning.

ganon is ****ing top tier in doubles just saying

He is certainly top tier at getting juggled back and fourth effortlessly, the only thing that makes him good in doubles is his kill potential, stock tank ability and the things he suffers from in singles isn't as bad as normal - he can recover with minimal help.

He's still certainly not top tier.

 

[tm]

So who's going to Big House again? Kage and tm, are you going? I always seem to improve a little bit whenever there are good ganons in the vicinity. I'm really gonna try hard to make it, but it depends on the release of my website... so I guess I better start crunching.

Kage and tm, are you going? I always seem to improve a little bit whenever there are good ganons in the vicinity.

Kage and tm, are you going? ... whenever there are good ganons

Kage and tm ... good ganons

tm

good ganon

!!!!!!!!!11










lol.

anyway yeah, I'm going.
I'll go to every Big House for the rest of my smash career.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Haha, you know what I mean. Top 10% consistent placing at a local or whatever, I consider that pretty good.

Awesome! Well, I really hope to see you there then. You should also consider coming out for SMYM 15, the longest running smash tournament ever and a staple for the midwest.

 

[Exdeath]

Are there any visual guides for perfect wavelands on every [legal] surface?

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Are there any visual guides for perfect wavelands on every [legal] surface?

I'd say just practice until you get the hang of it. Start by wavelanding on the battlefield platforms. If you air dodge to the side and land on the stage, you're too early. If you air dodge to the side and land on the platform, you're too late. If you air dodge at an angle or hear ganon at all, you're not holding the control stick at a 180 degree angle (i.e. no perfect waveland). You should be able to waveland across 95% of the platform on battlefield if you do a perfect waveland.

EDIT: Didn't understand the question. Ignore me.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

i'm confirmed for big house. see you guys there.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

maybe i'll go to big house if i get my **** together. i've failed at going to every regional/national so far this year but nsa2, and that was only because i had guaranteed housing as it was my home region.

anyway, i guess i could start mixing in dj wavelands onto other stages if it's really a frame faster.

i'm surprised you guys like dreamland so much. i've started to hate it because although ganon "live forever", he's pretty much dead whenever he's offstage so i prefer to have quicker killing power and control over the stage. so i pretty much go for yoshi's, battlefield and fod. i'm fine with people counterpicking pokemon against me. i'd rather play there than dreamland or fd. the only time i'll go dreamland over anything but fd is when i'm playing a marth. but most good marths i play will ban it so i usually end up going bf, pokemon or yoshi's against them.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I'm not a fan of PS simply because of those transformations. If they didn't exist at all, then I'd like the stage more.

 

[Coastward]

more ganons should go to fountain, i don't understand why so many people dislike it.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

i dislike the transformations as well, but i have some tricks for each part. although it's not as good in neutral for ganon as dreamland, i can kill quicker on it and i guess i value that more. and obviously any stage is better for ganon than fd so i don't even consider that.

i used to feel uncomfortable on fod as most new players are, but i've grown to like it a lot. the platforms are really easy for ganon to move around on. not as easy as battlefield, but a close second imo. the only times i'll ban fod are against samus, link and marth players. samus and link can live forever on fod. and i just can't play it very well against marths.

also you guys practice edge cancel shenanigans much? i've been doing full hop dairs to edge-canceled uairs starting from underneath platforms. the only stage i can't do it on very well is dreamland just because the platforms are so high. it works on all the other stages and people run into it all the time. especially peach players.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

YO Ian, you're going? Ok now I gotta go. And then what's your smym situation? I hope darkrain is there.

And coast, its because that stage is awful. The moving platforms are awful and the heights which they stop at are all awkward for the big man. You can't fair at the edge (on any areal for that matter) because the stupid platforms are in the way. Kage says its good, but that's pretty much an auto-ban vs marth and many others.

 

[MosthatedinNC]

I like playing marth on FD.

I don't mind FoD... I used to CP it a lot playing sheik 6 years ago+ but, i'd prefer several stages over it as ganon.

 

[Moy]

After playing Falcon for a while, it's hard to break auto-ban FoD habits.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

YO Ian, you're going? Ok now I gotta go. And then what's your smym situation? I hope darkrain is there.

i was never planning on attending, but @Ripple seemed to have interest in trying to get me out there in some way, shape or form. so it's ultimately up to him.

 

[spider_sense]

Does anybody have any idea how to fight Samus? I lost to Esam and got super frustrated with her nair tactics. Ganon has no answer for it. I've tried every single aerial and it either trades or gets flat out beaten. Also, does anybody know the percent Ganon gets knocked out of his cc?

 

[Renth]

Does anybody have any idea how to fight Samus? I lost to Esam and got super frustrated with her nair tactics. Ganon has no answer for it. I've tried every single aerial and it either trades or gets flat out beaten. Also, does anybody know the percent Ganon gets knocked out of his cc?

Ask RockCrock, He always was known for doing super well vs. Samus even the higher level ones. @RockCrock