Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[-ACE-]

You can cg sheik off reaction from 0% easily. Use primarily jc grab. After 45% turn around grab doesn't work for DI behind, you must jc grab.

 

[MosthatedinNC]

Ifkficivivivv7 ft d5drzezrx v uvivib

 

[cptjiggles69]

when is bighouse? i might go if i save the money

 

[RedmanSSBM]

You can cg sheik off reaction from 0% easily. Use primarily jc grab. After 45% turn around grab doesn't work for DI behind, you must jc grab.

Thanks ACE

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Streaming at http://www.twitch.tv/skytch

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

tm, i demand to play you at bh4.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Tied for 5th in singles, got 3rd in doubles at an MI tournament today, and got on stream a lot.

Doubles:
vs Duck + Ryejew www.twitch.tv/meleeitonme/b/556254509?t=38m42s
vs Ginger + Beach www.twitch.tv/meleeitonme/b/556254509?t=1h21m5s
vs Juggleguy + KJH www.twitch.tv/meleeitonme/b/556254509?t=1h35m43s

Singles:
vs Shibbypod (Doc): http://www.twitch.tv/meleeitonme/b/556347199?t=1h2m55s
vs Hellsing (Marth): www.twitch.tv/meleeitonme/b/556347199?t=2h2m55s
vs 1der ft. collusion (Falcon, Mario, Marth) www.twitch.tv/meleeitonme/b/556347199?t=2h22m
vs Beach (Sheik) www.twitch.tv/meleeitonme/b/556347199?t=3h11m55s

Rip me apart
if you just want to pick one, the sheik vid is probably best for pointing out mistakes of mine.

EDIT: Results thread http://smashboards.com/threads/body-city-2-results-michigan-melee-summer-circuit-finale.364003/

haven't watched all the vids yet (going to later) but i feel like i gotta give you just this little bit of critique for now

you telegraph what you are going to do on platforms all the time and your opponent almost always is ready. for example, vs the doc you kept jumping on the platform only to fall down with an aerial every time. you might as well just drop through if you're going to do that. speaking of dropping through, you would almost always try for a bair dropped through a platform whenever someone was on the ledge. it wasn't necessarily a bad option, it was just that you stayed stationary before doing it, so that kinda gave it away. it's similar to going to cover one option when edge guarding while leaving all the others open. i guess it's more complicated to think about in neutral, but it's one of the biggest weaknesses you have imo.

to end on a more positive note, i ****ing love your edgeguards a lot of the time. your use of legehop uair regrab is great. being good at edge guarding i feel is far more important than the neutral game with ganon. if you just worked your neutral more, you'd be a nightmare. good stuff, keep it up man.

 

[Frost | Odds]

Yo, I don't play Ganon (Bowser main), but you guys seem to be the ones to ask about this.

A couple perfect waveland questions:

1. Is it easier to do rising or falling?
2. Does it make a difference whether it's on a platform or not?
3. How big is the window, framewise?

What else should I know? Are there tricks for doing this? Is it even worth it for bowser?

 

[Renth]

Yo, I don't play Ganon (Bowser main), but you guys seem to be the ones to ask about this.

A couple perfect waveland questions:

1. Is it easier to do rising or falling?
2. Does it make a difference whether it's on a platform or not?
3. How big is the window, framewise?

What else should I know? Are there tricks for doing this? Is it even worth it for bowser?

Go to dreamland, One full HOP (single jump) at max height will line up with the lower platforms. Simply, jump as high as possible hold left or right then press L/R whatever. The high platform same thing, double jump at the highest point hold L/R while holding left or right and you sir will be doing perfect wavelands. Bowser and Ganondorfs movements are extremely differently and comparing them is like comparing a a race car and a potato with wheels on it

 

[Frost | Odds]

I think it's more like a racecar and a potato without wheels on it.

 

[tm]

tm, i demand to play you at bh4.

I accept and look forward to fulfilling your demand.

haven't watched all the vids yet (going to later) but i feel like i gotta give you just this little bit of critique for now

you telegraph what you are going to do on platforms all the time and your opponent almost always is ready. for example, vs the doc you kept jumping on the platform only to fall down with an aerial every time. you might as well just drop through if you're going to do that. speaking of dropping through, you would almost always try for a bair dropped through a platform whenever someone was on the ledge. it wasn't necessarily a bad option, it was just that you stayed stationary before doing it, so that kinda gave it away. it's similar to going to cover one option when edge guarding while leaving all the others open. i guess it's more complicated to think about in neutral, but it's one of the biggest weaknesses you have imo.

to end on a more positive note, i ****ing love your edgeguards a lot of the time. your use of legehop uair regrab is great. being good at edge guarding i feel is far more important than the neutral game with ganon. if you just worked your neutral more, you'd be a nightmare. good stuff, keep it up man.

Thanks dude. The first bit and neutral talk are quite helpful, and I definitely agree that it's what I need the most work on. About the bair thing: I know it's super obvious but I knew that it would work on the marth from playing him before recently. If I was also doing it in the other matches then yeah I should probably pay more attention to that and mix it up.

 

[Coastward]

real talk though, anyone down for ganon doubles at bh4?

eikelmann turned me down because hes not feeling it (but its actually because he doesnt wanna carry me).

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

real talk though, anyone down for ganon doubles at bh4?

eikelmann turned me down because hes not feeling it (but its actually because he doesnt wanna carry me).

if i had a ganondorf player to practice the team with, i would. but @iRanch doesn't like doubles so i'm the only ganondorf player in my region that likes 2v2.

 

[spider_sense]

I'm down for Ganon doubles, assuming I'm going to BH. I need to work on my game, so I'm hoping to put in some work tonight when I go to Versus.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

jason wtf. if you ever go out of state for a tournament in your life, i'll buy you hookers and blow.

 

[spider_sense]

You can keep the hookers, but hand me that coke.

 

[-ACE-]

He'd be doing both if I was there. Me too. lmao

 

[Coastward]

okay i legit need super deep tips on peach.

my friend just picked her up today and started spanking me, im so lost in this MU.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

watch my set with armada? idk man

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

OMG guys, someone started an AMA for me! @_____@

ask me questions/upvote?

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2dacrc/ama_request_eikelmann/

 

[-ACE-]

fully space everything to the max coast. peach has a straight up small hurtbox in general so you have to get used to the spacing. Her dash attack is so disjointed, you have to be ready for that. shield them and grab her if you can... If you can get grabs on peach you win.

 

[Coastward]

yeah it seemed i was getting a lot more of my damage off of grabs and stuff. turnips are such a ***** sometimes, same with that annoying ****ing jab.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I've been practicing catching items in the air and them throwing them really quickly in single-player for fun. I feel like this might help when playing against peach and she throws you a turnip and you want to throw it right back.

 

[Coastward]

i dont try to go for it too much because everytime they end up having a turnip, theyre close enough to punish me jumping out of shield trying to catch it.

i think sometimes its just best to stay in shield or just roll away, but i may also be completely wrong and thats why im getting my ass handed to me

 

[spider_sense]

Peach is one of my favorite matchups, you basically have to make her bait out her d smash and punish with fair, up-b out of shield or fair. If she's getting turnip happy, don't be afraid to catch them and toss them back. You can even get some nasty setups going if you time it right. Another thing you have to be careful of is her close range game, she can float cancel jab nair or dash attack (all which can be beaten with a well timed grab). Don't let her get close, so use jabs and tilts to keep her at bay. If she's above you on top of a platform use uair, the most she can do is down smash, in which case you can bait with uair or upsmash. Ganon can also grab dash attack from behind him too, so don't hesitate to punish a poorly spaced dash attack.

As far as edge guarding her is concern, if she's below the stage, then either dair or Tipman uair is key. (aim for her boobs with the uair spike) don't be afraid to trade with the umbrella for obvious reasons, and if she's above you and she's floating by the ledge, throw our fairs and uairs and make her work to get back on the stage. I found a really good way of baiting her to float to the stage. You just get back on the stage manually and throw uairs with the invincibility. Here's some vids of me vs a really good Peach main.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx3kVVIJ2oM

 

[Renth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx3kVVIJ2oM

1 ... 2... guess who's studying you...

 

[cptjiggles69]

@ spider_sense I think at high percents its safe to down throw peach. Why not up throws at low percent? Wouldn't that be good for setting up upairs to juggle her for a bit?

 

[cptjiggles69]

Here's a question . How do you consistently make peach drop her turnips? is there a certain move or knockback you have to do ? or is it percentage based? Kind of wondering that since i do it by a fluke most of the time

 

[-ACE-]

You are guaranteed a uair from dthrow when peach is at 0%, even pivot uair (for di behind) works, but iirc you can only have one frame of error. I use high ftilt for DI behind, uair for no DI (occasional nair if I'm feeling it), and uair or high ftilt for DI away. ftilt is just so easy, although uair can often put you in a better position for a follow up. Dthrow also makes additional follow ups easier than does uthrow.

 

[cptjiggles69]

Can't she nair you out of that? I mean it comes out quick!

 

[-ACE-]

You my friend have a 100% ACE guarantee.

 

[spider_sense]

LOL, I mean yeah you can get nair, that's why at 0% the uair either trades or gets stuffed (at least from my experiences maybe I'm not doing it as fast as -ACE-) I usually try a pivot jab or f-tlit and then go for the uair set ups, I think down throwing is probably the best solution when you get a grab because it gives Ganon a free hit no matter how they DI. Either a uair, bair or upsmash if they decide to DI straight up. Which is absolutely devastating for Peach. Watch my vids to see what I do at certain percents whenever I do get a grab.

 

[Linguini]

ledgejump is really good for edgeguarding peach as it gets you way up there and you can pretty much uair her no matter what unless she floats high above the stage.

Jason..lies!!!! I was at vs yesterday bodying ppl and you weren't there

 

[Superspright]

You are guaranteed a uair from dthrow when peach is at 0%, even pivot uair (for di behind) works, but iirc you can only have one frame of error. I use high ftilt for DI behind, uair for no DI (occasional nair if I'm feeling it), and uair or high ftilt for DI away. ftilt is just so easy, although uair can often put you in a better position for a follow up. Dthrow also makes additional follow ups easier than does uthrow.

The error is actually 0 frames. I hate grabbing at 0% because of this reason. It goes up soon after 10%. At ~53% you can start fairing. <3

 

[cptjiggles69]

Ohhh. So it has to be the lowest to the ground as possible up air?

You my friend have a 100% ACE guarantee.

And sorry ace. Just wanted to make sure. I guess i jump too high for it and that is when she can nair me

 

[Divinokage]

You are guaranteed a uair from dthrow when peach is at 0%, even pivot uair (for di behind) works, but iirc you can only have one frame of error. I use high ftilt for DI behind, uair for no DI (occasional nair if I'm feeling it), and uair or high ftilt for DI away. ftilt is just so easy, although uair can often put you in a better position for a follow up. Dthrow also makes additional follow ups easier than does uthrow.

Downthrow into Nair, man! Keep juggling that princess!

 

[Renth]

Downthrow into Nair, man! Keep juggling that princess!

I like to do this vs. marth at zero and a few other cast characters, I've been really enjoying N air lately in very random situations

 

[Renth]

@ Эикельманн [РУС] Now, every time I watch a ganondorf vs. Marth and then don't do the ledge drop up air when they are given it for free so many times I get really sad, I use the tech often.

 

[Divinokage]

I like to do this vs. marth at zero and a few other cast characters, I've been really enjoying N air lately in very random situations

It's not random though.. it's a DI trap because sometimes you have the option to reverse it. It's always much better to get multiple hits in than just getting one hit and trying to get in again after. You never want that as Ganon.. playing the spacing game is terrible because you have to make the hardest of reads.

 

[-ACE-]

Downthrow into Nair, man! Keep juggling that princess!

Like I said I occasionally use nair on no DI but that has to be frame perfect just like pivot uair (thanks superspright.... couldn't remember which one allowed 1 frame of error between uair and turnaround uair but I knew both were guaranteed). Trading with peach isnt always good lol. better to land a clean hit. and landing both hits of the nair doesnt always put peach in a good position for you to follow up, although it deals decent damage. It's a good option but still situational.