Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Divinokage]

Cmon man MORE UAIRS!!!

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

i dunno how to use turnips, that's my major problem. i always get ***** when i try to use a turnip just to miss and get float-cancelled n-aired/f-aired

 

[spider_sense]

i dunno how to use turnips, that's my major problem. i always get ***** when i try to use a turnip just to miss and get float-cancelled n-aired/f-aired

lol Just jump and press z. If you're that unsure with your timing, then try shielding the turnips. I was playing Dop a **** ton yesterday night and I think standing in front of the turnips and catching them with A is pretty easy to do as well and you don't have to jump and risk getting dashed attack or fair'ed.

 

[SockCrocs]

Snip.

Thank you for the advise. I will try it out when I have the chance.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

bizz, you used to be the peach slayer. what happened?

i've been able to tap into that "rage" i mentioned a page or two ago effectively for the past two days. i played with smash mac, uber ice, rock crock, and gatzu with even or positive results this entire weekend. i've noticed that i have significant trouble against ics.

here's to a splendid performance at Tipped Off.

 

[Geenareeno]

Is that Tipped Off 8? Are we going to see Hbox PP again?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Pp can't go. I forgot TO8 was happening because of fc lol

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Hey guys, i have some questions vs. jiggs. what beats what? what are some good approaches? is it mostly bait and punish, or what? cp stages? ban?

thanks in advance

 

[Geenareeno]

So I wrote a lot more than I thought I would. Can someone better than me tell me if this is good/bad right/wrong?


I play against Jiggs a lot but it's not high level so take it with a grain of salt. I'm going to break it down into neutral defensive and offensive. Stages first.

I'll list them from worst to best. (Arguable, but just to get an idea).

Dreamland 64
Final Destination
Pokemon/Battlefield
Fountain of Dreams
Yoshi's Story


Now a brief write-up about how each stage will affect the matchup.

DL64

Everyone knows, Jiggs can live forever on this stage. It also gives her lots of room to space B-air and the platforms don't get in the way. Rest won't kill you very early, if you DI. Something that is under-used against Jiggs on this stage is camping the top platform. And what I mean by that is using Jiggs horrible vertical mobility to out position her and avoid her back-air. I'm not great at explaining it but you basically sit up there and poke with d-air and up-air and then run away. Idk it's probably ****ty.

FD

This stage is a ***** but it can work at the same time. Blast zones are lower than dl64 and no platforms means no tech chasing for her, but less positional options for you. It usually works fine. Most of the time you will ban DL64 and get taken here (I think). Pretty much just read the neutral game section for this stage.

Pokemon

This is quite good for us because the transformations **** with her spacing and zoning more than ours and the blastzones are very low. Feel free to **** around on the windmill. Since she probably can't do anything about it. Wavelanding around the tree fort on the forest transformation is a good idea too. This is quite a good cp option.

Battlefield

Probably not quite as good as Pokemon since larger blastzones, and Jiggs spaces decently on this stage. However, it's still one of our best stages. Not much to say about this one. It's quite balanced. The top platform is not as useful; but you still may find a benefit from it over Pokemon. It depends on their playstyle and yours.

Fountain

This stage is great for you because it leaves Jiggs with little room to space B-air. Also a fair will kill her very early off the side. The changing platforms will **** with her a lot more than you. And hey! That top platform is looking great, especially when the others are lowered.

Yoshi's

They will pretty much always ban this. You can kill her very easily, but rest will kill from almost anywhere at any percent. It's really hard for her to space here too.




Neutral Game

This is the most important part of the matchup (besides di-ing u-tilt). Jiggs will be using B-air. Maybe a bit of fair and nair. You have a multitude of tools to deal with these depending on position, percent, stage, and player. Reverse u-air and b-air are going to be your bread and butter spacing tools. Getting above her and u-airing her is a good idea. Other tools include up-angled f-tilt, cc d-tilt (love this one), cc jab/regular jab, and occasionally fair. I'll explain each briefly. F-tilt can be used if they mis space, or to trade (usually a good idea). Incorporating wavedash will make it more effective. CC dtilt is awesome. Crouching will make you low enough that they pretty much have to land within range of dtilt to hit you with b-air; which can usually be followed up by u-air. If they are too high for d-tilt after the cc, just jab. Catching her with a fair is hard, but very rewarding.


Defensive Game

SDI UP TILT. Di her bairs out or down; but she can carry you anyway. Up-air can work as a combo escape tool, as usual. As for recovering, high is better. She doesn't have a lot of great options from up there, and if you go low, D smash/F smash is a ***** to tech.


Offensive Game

Grab leads to bair/u-air after d-throw. Upsmash if they don't DI. You can't really combo her. Don't ever go offstage to edgeguard, in my experience. You kind of have to poke with b-air and just let her grab the ledge.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

i meant using the turnip, not snatching it. i suck at throwing items/projectiles which is why i'm so glad that items are not used in competitive melee haha.

i used to be the peach slayer, but armada demotivated me.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Damn geen. Very informative stuff, thanks a lot

 

[Geenareeno]

Yeah, hope it helps.

 

[G. Vice]

i meant using the turnip, not snatching it. i suck at throwing items/projectiles which is why i'm so glad that items are not used in competitive melee haha.

i used to be the peach slayer, but armada demotivated me.

I've always wanted to play that guy. I actually feel like I'm not bad vs peach as well. You just have to be extremely patient, which tends to not be how I enjoy playing.

I played DoH and had good results, and he is a very, very solid Peach.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

Yeah, he said that he watched baka's match against me on youtube a lot just to prepare for any ganon (i had to be his first victim) haha.

Chain-grabbing practice finally paid off: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM_0zsCEk1w#t=5m45s

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

too bad it wasn't starting at 60%. ;]]]]]]]

****ing crashboards. can't even edit my posts. akljfdsklajfk;j;u4yf83uli2j

 

[ZeroUnderOne]

Technical question for you Gents. I noticed a lot of Gdorf/Falcon players do ledge hop waveland ~> grab quite smoothly, but I'm having difficulty doing it Ganondorf.

Button combo for me is back on analog stick, jump with y, forward and L for the waveland. Most of the time I just land and shield. I can do it in slow-mo on training so I guess I'm just off on the timing or rhythm? Or is there some other little trick or visual queue I'm missing?

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

come over and play with me. i'll show you how easy it is.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

If you shield, you're pressing it too late. If you die, you're pressing it too early (or forgetting to push the control stick towards the stage). Once you get it the first time, it becomes pretty easy.

Practice with Eikelmann, he'll help you out.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

i don't really think zero is going to put a bunch of effort into ganondorf or anything though so it's whatever lol

SOMEONE PLAY WITH ME. i need to practice for tipped off.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

input the grab during the waveland using Z. that's how i do it.

 

[ZeroUnderOne]

I'd love to play with someone around me! I don't use facebook so I miss all the monday night melee stuff on campus and I bike everywhere so I can't travel too far. I have a setup in the lab that I work in and I usually play much later at night. I mostly only do 1v1 vs Razek's falco or Garb's fox so it isn't all that easy to practice ganon haha.

But the button input is correct? I'm just off on the timing huh? Man, that is a small window.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Yeah, your button input's fine. It's not how I do it, but I think it's how most Ganon mains do it.

I don't think the window's that small. I mean, it's not like power shielding, or chain-grabbing Fox/Falco.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I'd love to play with someone around me! I don't use facebook so I miss all the monday night melee stuff on campus and I bike everywhere so I can't travel too far. I have a setup in the lab that I work in and I usually play much later at night. I mostly only do 1v1 vs Razek's falco or Garb's fox so it isn't all that easy to practice ganon haha.

But the button input is correct? I'm just off on the timing huh? Man, that is a small window.

zero, i live across the street from next level lan. you should come over sometime. do you text?

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Zero, like Raph said, you're probably pressing it too late if you shield instead of waveland.

Practice it on temple (there is a place you can grab the ledge and there is stage underneath) so you don't die if you accidentally air dodge.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I usually just go to a random stage with infinite time, but do whatever works for you. I can't practice in training mode, because I use the Cstick to ledgehop.

Also, Kage, great job at Impulse. You're really showing everyone what Ganon can do. I didn't get to watch your singles matches, but I'm looking forward to seeing them once they get uploaded.

 

[Divinokage]

I think my match vs SFAT was recorded, I really cant wait to see that. =P

Revenge is so sweet after getting 3-0ed at Genesis 2.

 

[Gliffie]

Not sure if it's related to Ganon at all, but what button do you use to wavedash and L-cancel? I use R for both, and in fact, I think I never use L for anything. Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks for the Temple tips for learning to ledge dash by the way

 

[RaphaelRobo]

It doesn't matter what you use for those, it's all personal preference. I use R to WD and L to L-cancel, but I'm sure other people are different. As long as you get it done, it doesn't matter how you do it.

 

[Warhawk]

I think my match vs SFAT was recorded, I really cant wait to see that. =P

Revenge is so sweet after getting 3-0ed at Genesis 2.

Yea, I saw the brackett image and noticed you beat him and silent wolf in consecutive sets which is impressive considering that matchup really sucks for Ganon.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Kage, did you CG them at all, or did you beat them without using that?

 

[Divinokage]

Well SW had to use Falco because his controller broke so he could not use Fox. I think I did get 4-5 grabs in a row once and then decided to continue hitting. lol. Though on Fox.. no I just hit him successfully.

 

[spider_sense]

Not sure if it's related to Ganon at all, but what button do you use to wavedash and L-cancel? I use R for both, and in fact, I think I never use L for anything. Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks for the Temple tips for learning to ledge dash by the way

I also personally use R for everything as well. Like Raphael said it's just preference to whatever makes you feel comfortable. <----Arguably the most sluggish Ganon on the planet.

 

[ZeroUnderOne]

Garb taught me what I was doing wrong aha! Wasn't getting enough height I think, had to use down on analog then jump to make it quicker. Seems easy now :/

Now for the next thing, should I avoid double jumping to waveland on platforms? I feel like it is slightly faster than doing the full hop but maybe I'm wrong? I figured if I'm knocked out of it then I'm screwed so I should start forcing my brain to do full hop wavelands.

I live right on Alafaya and research next to the school. I'm usually too beat by the end of the day to bike anywhere past university. Are you ever on campus?

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Doing a DJ to the platform is faster. You should be able to do both, and just do whatever's best for the circumstance.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I live right on Alafaya and research next to the school. I'm usually too beat by the end of the day to bike anywhere past university. Are you ever on campus?

I can get over by the campus generally to play, and I prefer playing at night anyway.

Just shoot me your phone number/address in a PM. we'll work stuff out.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Garb taught me what I was doing wrong aha! Wasn't getting enough height I think, had to use down on analog then jump to make it quicker. Seems easy now :/

Now for the next thing, should I avoid double jumping to waveland on platforms? I feel like it is slightly faster than doing the full hop but maybe I'm wrong? I figured if I'm knocked out of it then I'm screwed so I should start forcing my brain to do full hop wavelands.

I live right on Alafaya and research next to the school. I'm usually too beat by the end of the day to bike anywhere past university. Are you ever on campus?

Actually, dj wavelands are faster and imo a little easier like raph said. But like you said it can suck getting caught out of it - its all based on the situation. Know how to do both. For example, if somebody is dash dancing mid stage (and can't hit you), then a dj waveland would be faster, so less time for them to react. But if its a little more risky, then maybe a full hop would be a better choice. Test it out and see what you find out!

Also, gliffie: I wouldn't notice if the L and X buttons were completely removed from the controller haha.

Spidey: raph and I are at least tied for slowest ganon. Ill record my next smash session with sveets crew and we can compete for title of worst active ganon!!! Although im still improving mad quick - I may even be able to win a single tournament match soon! ...lol

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

my ganondorf is pretty slow, you guys would be depressed.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

worst active ganon!!!

That would be me.

I may even be able to win a single tournament match soon! ...lol

Wait, maybe not. I won a tournament Match for the first time in Amateur Bracket at IMPULSE yesterday.

actually, still probably me lol

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

pfft, my dude FakeTestudines would probably have won that entire amateur bracket. don't kid. ;]

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

my Gabon is the wavelandiest