Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[X WaNtEd X]

Went mudding for the first time a week ago in West Virginia with a redneck. Was a lot of fun. Had a few beers and got to drive on these dirty off trail roads. **** was liiiitttt

 

[Renth]

You can KO fox/falco mid-high percentages. If they do not DI behind.

It's very reactionary you can hit it just by sight. I kill almost every spacies in this manner

http://youtu.be/qTIcUz02z9o

7 min 30 seconds. When I make the video I'm working on expect to see me do that about 20 times in different percentages. It's really good.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Yeah and if they di behind you can just ftilt

 

[Bl@ckChris]

something words MF DOOM things. nas for life.

and uhh ganon still hits hard. more people should reverse fair. that elbow is funny.

 

[Divinokage]

http://www.hitbox.tv/video/1107104 This guy Jmook (Sheik) is pretty damn good. He's 16 years old only.. these child prodigies omg. I found a use of ledgehop reverse down-B when Sheik recovers perfectly right near the ledge. lol Around, 8:10:00.

 

[tauKhan]

Ok but the point of a hypothetical is you are just assuming you have it down 100 percent

Sure. To me 'consistent' isn't very strictly defined concept, so I wanted to give a range of success rate to help interpret my answer. For example, I'd consider 80% success rate with this kind of tech consistent. With 100% consistency I think it would be no brainer to go for the risk strategy, at least as long as the tech is unknown in the meta.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

https://www.twitch.tv/n0ne13/v/79838359

Ganon dittos between n0ne and Bizz in here

 

[Diosama]

What about Shadow Falcons? aka 20GX, never approach style falcon?

 

[-ACE-]

What about Shadow Falcons? aka 20GX, never approach style falcon?

On big stages, lame them out. Anyone can be baited into approaching. Depends on their precise habits but it's usually better when they come to you. Get grabs and use the **** out of the option select cg/uthrow trap.

 

[-ACE-]

Ian just 3-1'd s2j

Called it.

 

[-ACE-]

And he honestly didn't punish super hard. Not nearly as good as his win over n0ne

 

[PseudoTurtle]

GOOD SHlT IAN

 

[-ACE-]

LOL Damn, Ian kinda crumbled after the set with lucky. Definitely a great win in winners tho.

 

[Divinokage]

The mental damage in losers was strong.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

That win was amazing. Good **** to Ian!

 

[F. Stein]

That was an inspiring win for Ganon.

 

[-ACE-]

That was an inspiring win for Ganon.

Any falcon can be beat.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Any falcon can be beat.

Hell, Ian's literally beaten them all besides wizzy.

n0ne
s2j
gahtzu
gravy

whoever. Some of Ian's tricks when playing falcon are very innovative and should be incorporated by us all.

 

[-ACE-]

He would've wrecked s2j harder had he chaingrabbed where possible. He did use uthrow pretty well tho, just needed to regrab DI behind more often. He used jab, and actually got a sick follow-up or two, but he was more on point vs n0ne.

 

[Divinokage]

Well there is a difference between playing how you want vs playing the matchup properly. n0ne and s2j are very stubborn when it comes to not playing the matchup correctly. They want to make the community accept that an aggressive style Falcon can win anything but that doesn't work vs Ganon. When I play n0ne, he ****s me up so hard because he hates how I play and he doesn't respect me at all. I'm the only one who he will do that to. lol

 

[-ACE-]

It's a bad matchup, but doable. I think wizzy is beatable honestly.

If Ganon is punishing to the max and DI'ing perfectly, the matchup isn't as bad imo, despite how many times falcon will win neutral, and despite how many times this means you losing a stock.

 

[Divinokage]

I saw a lot of stomp tech chase attempts with Ganon when Ian was playing and i think that needs to be used much more rarely because its actually reactable with a roll away. If you dont jump then wavedash in instead you can use the side-b/shield on reaction to a roll or get up attack. Also downsmash (though it is also somewhat reactable to avoid) and down-b depending on % ofc. Downtilt is also a very interesting option while techchasing actually. You have to make them flinch instead by not jumping in techchase situations. Its come to that point where its easy to see Ganon jumping at you so these situations become more reliable.

 

[-ACE-]

I saw a lot of stomp tech chase attempts with Ganon when Ian was playing and i think that needs to be used much more rarely because its actually reactable with a roll away. If you dont jump then wavedash in instead you can use the side-b/shield on reaction to a roll or get up attack. Also downsmash (though it is also somewhat reactable to avoid) and down-b depending on % ofc. Downtilt is also a very interesting option while techchasing actually. You have to make them flinch instead by not jumping in techchase situations. Its come to that point where its easy to see Ganon jumping at you so these situations become more reliable.

True, honestly this is something I've always been conscious of but it's hardly ever discussed... the fact that people have time to react to certain techchases. In SFL only against porkchops really would I have to fake him out with a quick dd or something. You can recognize quickly how much attention they are paying and how aware they are of their options.

I'm glad you brought that up because I'll be looking at my jumps more.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

side-b and down b are both pretty good tech chase options that cover 3/4 if executed perfectly. And the opponnent has no way to really tell where you're trying to cover either. Only thing I don't like about side-b is it's an auto knee if you whiff and then down b leaves you open even if you DO hit them when they're at low %.

But, as always, whoever grabs in this matchup is the one who wins. Ian was doing something very interesting with his grabs that ALL of us should start doing. Ian will intentionally shield grab an aerial that's "safe on shield," because hey why not... then when the falcon jabs to stop the grab from coming out, Ian will ASDI down the jab and crouch cancel the next and immediately grab. Great tactic I think.

Only thing that could get around that IMO would be for the falcon to do a safe-on-shield aerial and then dash away, which gives them a free knee or grab. Use it sparingly, but I say keep it in your arsenal.

 

[-ACE-]

Yea... Side-b and down-b just need to be input as soon as your opponent hits the ground for the options to be covered. But of course for side-b against Falco and falcon you have to be basically on top of them.

I still think it's best to always cg falcon when possible. I manage to really get in ppl's heads when I regrab DI away from dthrow. They start associating DI away with being regrabbed until I uthrow and DI behind means regrab (55 to 85-90%) also. The inexperienced ones (almost everyone) will even try partial DI lol, easy regrab. The ability to react and option select is everything.

Now, if falcon DI's my dthrow behind, one of the common techchases I try is dash backwards and fair to cover the techroll behind. This tells you if he's currently simple minded enough to DI and roll in the same direction to just get away from you. It also tells you whether or not they're reacting at the last second to your movements out of dthrow like kage talked about (if they DI behind but techroll forward, they may have seen your dash and reacted). The other one you can use is AC bair at the last second so you can also dash jc grab the techroll forward. But if he's reacting at the last second he can continue with his techroll behind once he sees you haven't dashed and be safe. It lets you know how much respect to give them in techchasing situations. Not many people are on this level of thinking though, mostly only really high level players.

I just uthrow when I have a plat in front of me, or i REALLY think they'll DI behind. I'm also more likely to if punishing DI away + techroll away is barely possible by dash forward SHFF fair... Since a lot of people view DI away + techroll away as safe from uthrow before it actually is.

 

[Divinokage]

side-b and down b are both pretty good tech chase options that cover 3/4 if executed perfectly. And the opponnent has no way to really tell where you're trying to cover either. Only thing I don't like about side-b is it's an auto knee if you whiff and then down b leaves you open even if you DO hit them when they're at low %.

But, as always, whoever grabs in this matchup is the one who wins. Ian was doing something very interesting with his grabs that ALL of us should start doing. Ian will intentionally shield grab an aerial that's "safe on shield," because hey why not... then when the falcon jabs to stop the grab from coming out, Ian will ASDI down the jab and crouch cancel the next and immediately grab. Great tactic I think.

Only thing that could get around that IMO would be for the falcon to do a safe-on-shield aerial and then dash away, which gives them a free knee or grab. Use it sparingly, but I say keep it in your arsenal.

You dont down-B techchase at low %, it's dumb. lol

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Only thing that could get around that IMO would be for the falcon to do a safe-on-shield aerial and then dash away, which gives them a free knee or grab. Use it sparingly, but I say keep it in your arsenal.

And then you could start using wavedash oos. Like the grab, you could crouch cancel and asdi a jab out of it. And if they dash away, you catch them with jab, ftilt, or something out of the wavedash.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

for those that offered support, thanks.

for those that didn't, go ahead and beat s2j 3-1 in winners bracket kthx bye.

when i can travel out of state this character is going to get a revolution that extends past mediocre gfycats and youtube compilations just FYI. i'm pretty ****ing lit right now.

 

[Divinokage]

Who didn't offer support here? O_O

 

[-ACE-]

Who didn't offer support here? O_O

Drunkelmann.

Ian, I criticize spider_sense, bizz, linguini, n0ne, and Kage's Ganons too. Several of us do. No one is trying to bash anyone, the best Ganons SHOULD get the most criticism so we can get to the bottom of what is optimal. It's about pushing the meta. Everyone makes mistakes and we can all learn more from identifying them within high level Ganon play.

 

[Potet]

So the other day i came up with the idea to add the darkness effect to just the tipman hitbox of Ganon's Uair so you have a visual when you get the perfect hitbox. I was talking to some guys in the Ganon discord and they said it was a really neat Idea so I decided to post here. If anyone wants the DL link I'll post a link to the plgn.dat.

 

[ForTheLulz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADUjjAm1ePs

a FREE 100$, lol

 

[-ACE-]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADUjjAm1ePs

a FREE 100$, lol

So sloppy lmao, Should have been all 4 stocks!! Ian lay off the beer LOL

 

[tm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADUjjAm1ePs

a FREE 100$, lol

lol, he did way better than I did at least.

 

[-ACE-]

lol, he did way better than I did at least.

Ian played a lot better vs you tho. More efficiency, more focus on spacing.

 

[Divinokage]

Drunkelmann.

Ian, I criticize spider_sense, bizz, linguini, n0ne, and Kage's Ganons too. Several of us do. No one is trying to bash anyone, the best Ganons SHOULD get the most criticism so we can get to the bottom of what is optimal. It's about pushing the meta. Everyone makes mistakes and we can all learn more from identifying them within high level Ganon play.

That's right, there's no need to hold back and be scared of such judgments. Of course some people don't like it but that is the nature of a competition, the ones at the top are the ones that will be scrutinized the most. You might not have signed for that but it's part of it anyway. No one is going to waste time about people getting butthurt, that's just fiending for attention.

 

[Bwmat]

http://www.twitch.tv/ubcesports/v/81078552?sr=a 3:19:00

Me vs a peach in a crew battle. Just did... Bad

 

[Linguini]

I'm actually not surprised ian beat s2j. I was playing against him for like 2 hours of friendlies and won 70% of em. He's pretty aggressive which makes it easier for ganon to get those big hits in. And ccing/shieldgrabbing against him is more effective. Same with n0ne. Good win tho!

Gravy and wizzrobe are homo in the matchup lol

 

[-ACE-]

Ian vs s2j winners semis

https://youtu.be/UmihWmOsK-g

His use of wd back and ASDI counter attacks/grabs are the best things to me. His mistakes were just random flubs/mishaps. Important, but minor regarding analysis.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

"Tried to do a falling tipman" it's called a spidey drop you idiot