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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

Coastward

Coastward

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http://smashboards.com/threads/ganondorf-and-shield-pressure.414947/#post-19977864

made all finds on shield grab punishes, going to start working on OOS options next. actually happy i stayed home to study these things because now i actual learned something that can help advance my play.

fun fact if you're struggling against link: don't jab, ftilt or dtilt his shield because he can always get away with shield grab.
 
Coastward

Coastward

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-ACE-

-ACE-

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I have a feeling many of them will try to shield drop the first hit of nair and get hit. Most people seem to expect uair.
 
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PaperstSoapCo

PaperstSoapCo

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Coastward said:
gathered more info on shield pressure if your opponent is on a platform:

http://gfycat.com/AmpleWetAtlanticsharpnosepuffer
AC double nair > jab beats shield grab, applies some good pressure too.

http://gfycat.com/NauticalSinfulAntbear
if they try to shield grab the first hit, they'll get hit by the 2nd kick.

http://gfycat.com/HairyDetailedAfricanhornbill
you can even take advantage of the situation by grabbing instead of jabbing, probably the best option.
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Hey Coast mybad if I was asking a lot but I have no melee so you were my outlet. There were some other things I wanted to see but I felt like Id be typing way to much trying to explain myself. Nair sheild pressure is always fun.

Coast was it difficult to get 20XX set up? Im wanting to practice techs but Im borderline about to buy a modded Wii off of someone.
 
PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

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PaperstSoapCo said:
Coast was it difficult to get 20XX set up? Im wanting to practice techs but Im borderline about to buy a modded Wii off of someone.
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Tipman, an unmodded Wii cost me ~$15 and the "standard" price on amazon is $30 or so. Modding it takes about 30 min and installing 20XX probably doesn't take more than another 30 min, but you need a windows computer (which is why I haven't done it yet).

Imagining Tipman with 20XX... hype.

Yo @ Coastward Coastward no nair --> side-b? It's most likely safe against grab. Just wanna know for sure. BTW, good ****! Nice to see someone advance the metagame this way.

In other news:
Snapchat--8450043325502760529.jpg
 
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S

Superspright

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PaperstSoapCo said:
Hey Coast mybad if I was asking a lot but I have no melee so you were my outlet. There were some other things I wanted to see but I felt like Id be typing way to much trying to explain myself. Nair sheild pressure is always fun.

Coast was it difficult to get 20XX set up? Im wanting to practice techs but Im borderline about to buy a modded Wii off of someone.
Click to expand...
I did it in 15 minutes...after three weeks of trouble-shooting. You probably want to ask me or someone how to set it up since it's kind of a pain in the ass really.

If you get 20XX you can change the L-cancel timings and a few other things. I like to put mine to 1 so I never **** them up even on hit.

The CPUs actually do random DI on hit and tech so you can practice all your tech-chase options. It's too good. I'm definitely faster than I've ever been now. But I didn't have a gamecube for months.
 
Coastward

Coastward

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PaperstSoapCo said:
Hey Coast mybad if I was asking a lot but I have no melee so you were my outlet. There were some other things I wanted to see but I felt like Id be typing way to much trying to explain myself. Nair sheild pressure is always fun.

Coast was it difficult to get 20XX set up? Im wanting to practice techs but Im borderline about to buy a modded Wii off of someone.
Click to expand...
no worries dude, your questions actually helped me think more about shield pressure so its all good!

also, it takes like 2 hours max to mod a wii if you dont know what you're doing. there's a few amount of videos on youtube that explain the process easily.

PseudoTurtle said:
Tipman, an unmodded Wii cost me ~$15 and the "standard" price on amazon is $30 or so. Modding it takes about 30 min and installing 20XX probably doesn't take more than another 30 min, but you need a windows computer (which is why I haven't done it yet).

Imagining Tipman with 20XX... hype.

Yo @ Coastward Coastward no nair --> side-b? It's most likely safe against grab. Just wanna know for sure. BTW, good ****! Nice to see someone advance the metagame this way.

In other news:
View attachment 69594
Click to expand...
nair side-b would probably be situational as ****: longer platform for better spacing, dependant on opponents shield grab range and other variables.
 
S

Superspright

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UP-B is under utilized as a punish to whiffed stuff. Has anyone started experimenting with buffered shield-drops on hit with aerials?
 
spider_sense

spider_sense

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-ACE- said:
I don't think you can buffer it, just set yourself up by already having your shield tilted.
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Well I consider it buffering, but I think what Supersprite is trying to say is if you buffer the stick to forward or back (depending which direction you want to roll the stick) while doing an aerial; I've been doing it all the time now. I've always been messing with pivot aerial short hopping from shield. My Ganon has gotten a lot faster from doing just doing both.
 
Zigludo

Zigludo

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Oh. So you're buffering the shield tilt while landing, and since you can't buffer roll with the control stick, you get to hold it all the way to the notch without worrying about rolling by accident. that's pretty swag, one less precise input to worry about.
 
B

Bwmat

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got done in by icies today rip http://www.twitch.tv/ubcesportssmash/v/12255387?t=6h10m11s

i hate icies SO MUCH. Also big d is a god at all smash games and I hate playing against and losing to him.

also had some doubles matches (played all ganon except for like one game) streamed if anyone cares to watch. got 2nd, we got bopped in grands.
http://www.twitch.tv/ubcesportssmash/v/12255387?t=11m04s
http://www.twitch.tv/ubcesportssmash/v/12255387?t=21m25s
http://www.twitch.tv/ubcesportssmash/v/12255387?t=1h20m30s
http://www.twitch.tv/ubcesportssmash/v/12255387?t=1h43m07s
 
B

Bwmat

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also shield drops are too damn hard.

I used to kinda be able to do it on my old controller while facing left pretty consistently, now I can barely do it period.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

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spider_sense said:
Well I consider it buffering, but I think what Supersprite is trying to say is if you buffer the stick to forward or back (depending which direction you want to roll the stick) while doing an aerial; I've been doing it all the time now. I've always been messing with pivot aerial short hopping from shield. My Ganon has gotten a lot faster from doing just doing both.
Click to expand...
Word, I only really consider something buffered if you can hold the input during stun and have the move/attack happen on the first available frame. To me it's like saying you buffered an up-b because you were already holding up lol.
 
S

Superspright

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-ACE- said:
Word, I only really consider something buffered if you can hold the input during stun and have the move/attack happen on the first available frame. To me it's like saying you buffered an up-b because you were already holding up lol.
Click to expand...
Maybe I wasn't articulating myself properly.

If you do a FH rising upair onto the 1st tier of platforms on battlefield then you'll notice you AC land on that platform and you're left with that disgusting end-lag as if you just jumped onto it. What I do is I hold shield before I hit the floor, and then begin to slowly move the control stick down at the moment the shield will come up. This makes me fall through the platform on the very first frame after he lands AC'd. This speeds him up considerably, and allows me to do new follow-ups, and create baits. Platforms are much safer to navigate if you can buffer a shield-drop. You can do it out of any option so long as you know when the lag on the move ends and when the shield will come up.
 
S

Superspright

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-ACE- said:
100% agreed, that's what I try to do but I'm just not consistent yet.
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It's just a timing 'rhythm' thing. If you have 20XX I'd worry more about the on-hit option than the off-hit option. The off-hit is obviously good for a platform bait to make your opponent leap up there while you fall through. Shield-drops also enable faster aerials than are possible for Ganondorf because of his abysmal jump-squat animation.

I'm not super consistent with it on-hit yet, but off-hit I can do it practically with my eyes closed now. I wonder how adrenaline will affect such a nuanced movement though--so no trial by fire yet...so I don't really know how consistent I am with it yet anyway.

Off-topic: Why don't we use UP-B more in the neutral, or after using shield-SDI (especially against Falco/Fox)?
 
PaperstSoapCo

PaperstSoapCo

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Bwmat said:
got done in by icies today rip http://www.twitch.tv/ubcesportssmash/v/12255387?t=6h10m11s

i hate icies SO MUCH. Also big d is a god at all smash games and I hate playing against and losing to him.

also had some doubles matches (played all ganon except for like one game) streamed if anyone cares to watch. got 2nd, we got bopped in grands.
http://www.twitch.tv/ubcesportssmash/v/12255387?t=11m04s
http://www.twitch.tv/ubcesportssmash/v/12255387?t=21m25s
http://www.twitch.tv/ubcesportssmash/v/12255387?t=1h20m30s
http://www.twitch.tv/ubcesportssmash/v/12255387?t=1h43m07s
Click to expand...
Had a heart attack watching this. Good match.
 
T

tauKhan

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I think the "buffering" shield drop method is very useful for some situations and especially movement. The precise inputs are the following for drops out of an animation you can't directly spot dodge in (such as dash for instance): Input down on control stick frame 1, shield frame 4-5. Your spotdodge out of shield will be disabled by the time you shield, but shield drop input is still active, so you'll drop. Thus if you can't spot dodge directly, it's an relatively easy 2 frame window to do drop with this method. However sometimes, for example buffered out of Wait, you can't drop frame 5 because that would make you spotdodge frame 4.

Superspright said:
You can do it out of any option so long as you know when the lag on the move ends and when the shield will come up.
Click to expand...
Not quite simple as that, it's actually significantly harder to drop like that after aerial landing lags than the impact land that follows for instance when you land normally from jump. The reason is that aerial landings put you straight into Wait, while you can't spotdodge without shielding during impact land.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

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Unseeded. Bodied a fox then got got rekt by porkchops. 2nd game woulda been 1 stock vs 1 stock but I accidentally fell offstage LOL.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

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Beat another fox, beat a Marth, lost to Wes Jr's Samus. I really need to be happy with never approaching lol. No fun in that though :denzel:
 
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