Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[megacrusher9999]

Young flame hoe, well done. I now believe this round robin is going to happen.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

I don't play B), you down too RockCrock ?

 

[RedmanSSBM]

**** what did I miss.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

**** what did I miss.

The RR is on and POPPING B) with no help from @ -ACE-

 

[-ACE-]

The RR is on and POPPING B) with no help from @ -ACE-

Lmfao I hope I get you first round.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

Oh so now that's its happening you sound excited? What a guy this @ -ACE- guy is yo. Can you talk to @ spider_sense for me? Homie hates me -_-

Edit: spider_sense with the frame perfect YvngFlame heartbreak, says he can't go

 

[Divinokage]

Beat another fox, beat a Marth, lost to Wes Jr's Samus. I really need to be happy with never approaching lol. No fun in that though

Forward jump Fair is pretty bad tho.. lol

How else can you approach really? Walking tilts, jabs? rofl

 

[-ACE-]

Lol Samus is hard for me and here's why:

My tech still isn't on point, and in a match where 5 minutes of good zoning/neutral game is required, I WILL miss a wL at some point or leave myself open as **** somehow (from a flub) and give them the free hit they need LOL

Sometimes I lose motivation after fairing 50 missiles also.

And edgeguarding her is so ****ing risky got DAYUMN.

At least I can combo the living p!ss out of fox, matchup might be @$$ but twice as fun as the Samus/jiggs matchups combined.

/salt rant

 

[spider_sense]

Lol Samus is hard for me and here's why:

My tech still isn't on point, and in a match where 5 minutes of good zoning/neutral game is required, I WILL miss a wL at some point or leave myself open as **** somehow (from a flub) and give them the free hit they need LOL

Sometimes I lose motivation after fairing 50 missiles also.

And edgeguarding her is so ****ing risky got DAYUMN.

At least I can combo the living p!ss out of fox, matchup might be @$$ but twice as fun as the Samus/jiggs matchups combined.

/salt rant

Remember what we talked about when it comes to your flubs? lol I'll give you some pointers vs Samus if you and Wes Jr decide to go to CS today.

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah I'd like to play Wes a lot more just for mental endurance lol

Also @ spider_sense I'll be at CS today, smilez bought my purple controller I gotta get paid lol

 

[Superspright]

I have ice-climber issues. I got wobbled 8x in tournament from clearly what was bread-and-butter tactics. I haven't had to deal with wobbling in a while. Any suggestions on how to separate the two little ***** so I can flatten them?

 

[Superspright]

Jabs will beat it, buffered rolls escape it. From PS tho...

Off of powershield a lot of things are good like jab, ftilt, up-b, side-b (situational)...even dropping the shield is good if it's a projectile.

 

[Divinokage]

Lol Samus is hard for me and here's why:

My tech still isn't on point, and in a match where 5 minutes of good zoning/neutral game is required, I WILL miss a wL at some point or leave myself open as **** somehow (from a flub) and give them the free hit they need LOL

Sometimes I lose motivation after fairing 50 missiles also.

And edgeguarding her is so ****ing risky got DAYUMN.

At least I can combo the living p!ss out of fox, matchup might be @$$ but twice as fun as the Samus/jiggs matchups combined.

/salt rant

Just corner that *****, cant missile anymore must now play footsies instead which i think Ganon has the advantage of vs Samus.

 

[-ACE-]

True. Today I'm going to bair, uair, grab, and ftilt mostly. I'll try to corner her more. I probably won't edgeguard her half the time (and stick to ledge pressure), depends on whether or not I can punish one of his down-b's.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Also you can platform camp her hard if your movement is crisp. She really can't approach you very well when you're coming down with aerials. Once you get her cornered (even better on the ledge) you can shut her down.

And just don't go out there with edgeguarding. If you have a guaranteed eikeldrop or rld uair when she's at least at higher percent take it, but that's like the farthest to go unless you have a hard read. Just try to keep her from making it farther than the ledge. She has so many mixups that you really have no shot at straight up edgeguarding a really good samus before she gets to the ledge.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Also on the subject of approaching, what do you guys think if using pivots to approach? I'm debating whether I should master dash perfect pivot options from the ground and perhaps dash pivot bair. I think I've got that and dash perfpivot jab down so far. I feel like being able to do this consistently would give you a lot more options in neutral for controlling space.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Shield pressure

You can also mix in shield drop uair after either the AC nair or jab. Not sure if it's guaranteed, but it can easily shield poke and it sets you up to pressure them from below again.

 

[-ACE-]

As long as it's a tipper ftilt, any closer and you'd want to look into jab/grab generally. Dash pivot bair is sick too.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

As long as it's a tipper ftilt, any closer and you'd want to look into jab/grab generally. Dash pivot bair is sick too.

What about dtilt? Dsmash? Usmash even?

 

[-ACE-]

Usmash always has its place as a mixup imo and is more useable in neutral than dsmash will ever be. You already know what dsmash is good for. Honestly I think dtilt is worth learning, the follow-ups are free and I know it would surprise them from a pivot.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

but you need a windows computer (which is why I haven't done it yet

Nah I have it on my mac

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Maybe I wasn't articulating myself properly.

If you do a FH rising upair onto the 1st tier of platforms on battlefield then you'll notice you AC land on that platform and you're left with that disgusting end-lag as if you just jumped onto it. What I do is I hold shield before I hit the floor, and then begin to slowly move the control stick down at the moment the shield will come up. This makes me fall through the platform on the very first frame after he lands AC'd. This speeds him up considerably, and allows me to do new follow-ups, and create baits. Platforms are much safer to navigate if you can buffer a shield-drop. You can do it out of any option so long as you know when the lag on the move ends and when the shield will come up.

100% agreed, that's what I try to do but I'm just not consistent yet.

You guys are doing it the hard way. You want to use your analog stick first at a slight diagonal angle and tilt it down just as you hit a shoulder button. This method made me consistent with AC shield drops within 30 minutes of practice. You can also do this to buffer after I canceling.

 

[-ACE-]

So you start slightly below horizontal? Sounds good but the sweet spot varies between controllers a little bit.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

So you start slightly below horizontal? Sounds good but the sweet spot varies between controllers a little bit.

Yeah. There's some room for error though. You could start horizontal and tilt slightly below horizontal and get it off.

 

[-ACE-]

I'll give it a try today.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

@ -ACE- @ PaperstSoapCo @ L Linguini , Spider_sense says he is only free on fridays and saturdays, can any of you come out to vs for any of those days so he can be in the RR? I don't wanna play without em but if you can only do sunday, then we'll just Do it on sunday without my dawg

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Nah I have it on my mac

How? All I can find are .exe files

 

[X WaNtEd X]

How? All I can find are .exe files

Did you use jesse hertz's guide? He links to Mac 20xx files.

 

[-ACE-]

Btw @ YvngFlameHoe

Gets bashed for not having faith in Ganon round robin.

Is the only Ganon to show up to vs tourney.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

Btw @ YvngFlameHoe

Gets bashed for not having faith in Ganon round robin.

Is the only Ganon to show up to vs tourney.

idk what you saying, but can you play on fri or sat for spider_sense or nah?

 

[-ACE-]

idk what you saying, but can you play on fri or sat for spider_sense or nah?

I kinda limit my trips to vs to once a week. I drive a tank remember.

Also one thing I did use well vs Samus is "unsafe" AC bair bait for ledge pressure. If you time the bair so that you can shield ledgehop fair, they often fair through you and you simply shieldgrab. And you can dash +jc grab ledgeroll. Since the bair is "poorly" spaced it can really bait the fair.

 

[-ACE-]

I have ice-climber issues. I got wobbled 8x in tournament from clearly what was bread-and-butter tactics. I haven't had to deal with wobbling in a while. Any suggestions on how to separate the two little ***** so I can flatten them?

Play patient, pick and choose your aerials wisely. See if they do unsafe jumps... just watch out for bair and avoid uair at all costs. Anything else is free aerial, so throw in some aerial baits or sneak one in with an edge cancel. Honestly fair separates them well, just space it. But flatten, you say? Dair to dsmash is a godly opener with a large frame window for error. At 0% just watch which way they DI the stomp and let that eagle fly. Free uairs after that. Whenever you single nana out, make wise decisions when deciding between killing her and keeping popo off of you. If they think you're going for nana you bair them for free and hit her next. Wizkick spike their side-b. Go in as hard as possible without giving them the grab.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

So sunday without spider_sense then?

 

[Xtra_Crispy]

Play patient, pick and choose your aerials wisely. See if they do unsafe jumps... just watch out for bair and avoid uair at all costs. Anything else is free aerial, so throw in some aerial baits or sneak one in with an edge cancel. Honestly fair separates them well, just space it. But flatten, you say? Dair to dsmash is a godly opener with a large frame window for error. At 0% just watch which way they DI the stomp and let that eagle fly. Free uairs after that. Whenever you single nana out, make wise decisions when deciding between killing her and keeping popo off of you. If they think you're going for nana you bair them for free and hit her next. Wizkick spike their side-b. Go in as hard as possible without giving them the grab.

We did some 3man crew battles in SD and i got to play against a triple ICs team, little do they know ganon vs ics is my favorite matchup lol

How the hell do you spike their side-b? usually they were above me when recovering and Ganon's stubby little jumps couldn't get above them. Hell, I had pretty good luck getting the nipple spike (lol at them not being able to meteor cancel) when they tried to go above, or just grounded wizard foot-ing them back off

 

[-ACE-]

There is no nipple spike hitbox.

Down-b spikes easily. Aim for their head.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Id prefer saturday but honestly dont know if ill make it this weekend since im not trying to stay at vs till 4am

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

that's 2 for saturday. Wattup @ L Linguini which day is good for you?

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Edgeguarding Samus when she is off stage and recovering can be risky but the main thing you gotta look out for is when she is just about to come out of her morph ball animation when she does the bomb jump to get back to the stage. If you time a bair or upair right as she comes out of that animation, you can hit her and she hardly has anything that she can do to combat that, especially if you fully space an aerial. Even trading in this situation is fine. You just don't want to miss. If you miss (like any edgeguard off stage attempt) you will likely die or be in a pretty bad position because of it. Thankfully Samus' recovery is rather linear and one well-placed bair can cover a lot of mixups. You just gotta get a good bit of practice and the risk is worth it when you have the read.

As for bread and butter stuff that ICs do, I see a lot of wavedash in to jab (from both ICs) into grab that turns into a wobble. You have to react to the jab because I believe the fact that both jabs hit you make it so that you can't ASDI in between the hits and jab in time, but I'm not sure. You have to react early enough cause you need to start mashing your controller before you start to get wobbled so that you have a much greater chance of getting out. Wavedash in jab > wobble is cheeky but you have to respect it. I really think you can CC jab in between but it's probably a really tight timing. Abuse platforms against ICs. Put them under stress to just get a grab on you because you know that is their #1 priority of punishment in the matchup. Be careful of wavedash in to downsmash, as that comes out fast and can catch you off guard, but I believe it is unsafe on shield. Don't be afraid to try to grab ice climbers, cause it can mess them up and separate the climbers, and usually the worst that happens is you get hit away and reset back to neutral. fsmash hits way above the ice climbers, and upair is really disjointed above them, so be really careful about going over the ice climbers. Your strong suit is your horizontal advantage on the ice climbers, as well as when the ice climbers are above you.

 

[Superspright]

I mainly got caught with wavedash jab. I tried to SDI away and waveland but I think what you said was right. I just felt stuck. Also, simple blizzard setups, but after the second time he tried I SDI'd up and away and escaped. He also was able to do hand-offs, but they aren't really that hard either.

I think I just made it too easy for him to get things. I would land in front of his shield with a fully spaced fair and get rocked for it. It felt like the neutral was way too dicey for me to work with at the time--I am very platform heavy player but I didn't really utilize them much. I guess I wasn't respecting him as much as I should have. He looked like a ******** troll, and was the most glib **** I had met at the tournament that day. Clearly Smash gives his ugly ass a reason to live since he was so proud of hitting a button 180 bpms like a metronome.

Thanks for the suggestions. Does anyone have anything else to add? I mainly just need advice for the neutral to avoid the ****in' grab.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Nah you can't really rely on catching Samus off guard like that in the morph ball. She can change momentum so quickly in morph ball to react to your aerials, even during the bomb jump. The only reason eikeldrop and rld uair work is because she can't really avoid you without killing herself when she's low. But even then it only works in very few situations.