Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[PseudoTurtle]

Damn, good *** match but don't worry Joe I got you on the Falco mu. All and all you did pretty damn well, you just have to learn how to combo birdman a little bit better, but you're almost there.

Thanks Jason! We'll have to have a nice long talk about falco at big house. I've beaten this guy once out of like 10+ sets LOL and it's getting frustrating. What would you suggest for combo game? Going offstage? Better tech reads / force the missed tech?

Only watched the first two games but good **** man. Techchases were good, you were definitely in his head (soooo many stomps on rolls to center stage).

Only suggestion is to tighten up pressure when he is cornered. Especially don't let him laser his way out of the corner. There were a few times he was next to edge and just started spamming lasers and you were locked in shield. Same goes with double laser off the edge.

As far as the rest of the game, great job getting CC jabs off his laser approaches. For a while it seemed like every approach he tried was just getting straight stuffed, even with mixups.

Thanks man. I understand the concept lol, but falco is actually pretty tough to pressure in the corner IMO. I know linguini says it's easy, but his full hop makes it so there's always a good mixup and if you try reading it, but fail, you get laser'd. How would you suggest I apply pressure?

I like to just keep CCing lasers and spam jab, but it's tough lol especially when your opponent is patient and you can easily take 20% just because you can't do anything against those lasers.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

From what I understand watching linguini, he conditions falcos not to fh by doing fh uair. If it misses and you get lasered, you SDI back and maybe slightly downward depending how high you are. And you have a few other good mixups out of it that will lead to a heavy punish if falco plays to passive or isn't careful. Once you condition falco not to fh, you can start applying your corner pressure more easily.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

From what I understand watching linguini, he conditions falcos not to fh by doing fh uair. If it misses and you get lasered, you SDI back and maybe slightly downward depending how high you are. And you have a few other good mixups out of it that will lead to a heavy punish if falco plays to passive or isn't careful. Once you condition falco not to fh, you can start applying your corner pressure more easily.

I should really start doing this. Or maybe work on powershielding or something.

Full hop up air could build a nice wall for sure especially since you can up air twice out of a full hop. Gets around laser, covers fh, walls them out if they try to aerial you on the way down. Nice. Thanks, that sounds pretty good.

 

[-ACE-]

You'd be surprised how often you land and easy dj fair after it too. Not even a great bait but it works sometimes.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Yeah I wouldn't be looking for that because most players cover it. But you can do the first uair and then watch to see what they do. If they commit sloppily, you can react with a good dj mixup.

 

[-ACE-]

I'm always looking at wL options after the uair, and it's easy to do an aerial instead if he commits. Fairing his shield isn't bad, and depending on the timing you can tomahawk. Just depends.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I kind of want to see if dair is safe on shield from behind in what matchups. And how consistent one can get a shield poke dair.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Hey guys. How's everyone doing?

 

[-ACE-]

Hey guys. How's everyone doing?

How's Europe?

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Hey guys. How's everyone doing?

How many beers have you had in Europe thus far?

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

How many beers have you had in Europe thus far?

if i counted everything on my untappd account, plus all of the pictures i've logged and haven't gotten around to uploading, probably something like 43 unique beers since august 10th.

How's Europe?

so good. i could write a book. i placed 9th in melee singles at heir 2 the throne (second biggest euro event ever) which is the best ganondorf placing in europe of all time. also got 4th in pm singles for what it's worth. some of my good wins thusfar are dev, mahie, daumling, deathgazer, and i also beat leffen which was semi-controversial lol

pretty sure i'm forgetting some of my other good wins though.

at the london weeklies i've brought professor pro to game 5 a couple of times, for what it's worth. i have a very solidified opinion about PAL ganondorf now and it's quite overwhelming. i'm not sure how i'll feel about returning to NTSC ganondorf...

here's some footage of me from the event if you guys haven't seen it yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w34MQCKRi7s

 

[-ACE-]

You prefer having a weaker stomp and fair??

 

[-ACE-]

http://youtu.be/Z9swmUat10U

Randomly saw this LOOOOOL

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I would gladly trade NTSC stomp and fair for Fox, Falco, Sheik, and Marth nerfs.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

You prefer having a weaker stomp and fair??

Weaker stomp is actually so much better. I think I'll post something big about PAL Ganondorf soon.

 

[-ACE-]

Weaker stomp is actually so much better. I think I'll post something big about PAL Ganondorf soon.

Yeah I'd like to hear that. It's about time you posted on here anyway. Ganon doesn't have a problem killing at higher%, I don't see more combo potential at high% trumping combo potential at low% (like stomp to grab at 0%).

@locke I agree with that. Especially sheik dthrow.

 

[Linguini]

**** dat. pal ganon is a nightmare...at least for me. I need my fairs at full power or I feel like i'm playing with no balls lmfao

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I'd rather have no balls than have Sheik constantly grabbing me by the balls. **** that easy-ass chain-grab in NTSC.

 

[-ACE-]

Yo Ganons cg is easy too.

Any scenario where I have no balls = nope

LOL

 

[Coastward]

beat the 2nd beat marth in my region today but still got 3rd

also, i realized how ****ing easy the CG on spacies is after you practice it for just a little while.

also also, i need a teammate for big house please.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I was playing with a friend last night and did the sickest combo I've ever done.

vs Fox:
Dair -> Dair -> Fair
He's offstage, I read the Side B recovery and cut it off with Down B
The % is perfect so that he ends up right next to me when he uses FireFox so I up B and kill him

Oh how I wish we had been able to record...

Gonna be at a tournament today. twitch.tv/Vorde hopefully I'll do more cool stuff.

 

[Bwmat]

Megabussing the side b feels so good. I always laugh maniacally whenever I pull it off

Shame that whiffing it basically kills you.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Got 7th at my local today. A bunch of people from outside my city came out so it was nice having some new competition. The 6 of them all made Top 8, so I was the 2nd highest local placer which feels good after being gone all summer, I haven't gotten any worse from not playing people XD

I also got 2nd in teams. Unfortunately didn't get any matches recorded though, Smash 4 (which I won) went over time so by the time Melee got on stream I was already out.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Grab game makes ALL the difference vs spacies. I played vs kjh and ginger today and took some games off kjh and didn't lose a single one to ginger. They were only friendlies, so I'm taking it with a grain of salt, but those regrab follow ups that Ian does are so legit. I think I'm finally starting to learn the falco matchup, specifically proper laser evasion and the spacing at which you can jab out of laser follow ups.

Also bodied kels's marth

I have to completely nail down my cc --> grabs and shield DI --> grabs, but after that, I think I might start becoming a bigger threat to the space animals. My dash dance game and double jump reads are starting to get scary. A little more leveling up and I'm gonna take some big names in tournament.

I think I'm gonna money match duck tomorrow and see how it goes. Tune into Twitch.TV/windycitysmash if y'all are bored and wanna catch some SMYM footage.

OH and tm, make sure you read this;

Up throw --> dtilt --> fair worked on kjh and got the stock, so don't say that **** isn't legit

 

[-ACE-]

I'm so glad someone popular who actually gets some stream time started chaingrabbing. Telling people for years that it's very good seems to do nothing lol.

 

[spider_sense]

I'm so glad someone popular who actually gets some steam time started chaingrabbing. Telling people for years that it's very good seems to do nothing lol.

LOL I remember people on the boards back then would say moonwalking was useless. Btw, I'm about 50/50 on going to BH, but everything looks good to go. My shield dropping game has gotten much much better, along with my pivot shield aerials; I honestly feel like I have more control with Ganon and my pivoting game is getting there. I usually jump and then pivot my f-tilt after the jump, it seems like is a good way to bait out approaches which helps with the micro managing. (It just feels great to make Fox/Falco whiff shine or jab just to turn around and kick them in the mouth. lol)

Btw Listen to Ace, the chain-grabbing method is mad clutch (especially on platforms) even if you can't get the grabs consistently. It's free percent and remember that at certain percentages you're able to jab, tilt, wizards foot, and d-tilt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmMXvPtNVTM&feature=share
Vibe - lol @ L Linguini you probably know who I got this from.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I'm so glad someone popular who actually gets some stream time started chaingrabbing. Telling people for years that it's very good seems to do nothing lol.

Who?

 

[-ACE-]

Who?

I'll give you a clue. He's a FL Ganon main that would more likely to go to Europe than go to Versus Ganon Center.

 

[Sebovich]

It's gonna be interesting to read your thoughts on PAL Ganon Eikelmann, considering that the general opinion is that he is worse than NTSC!

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah I can't wait to hear that load of **** LOL

Theorycrafting: what method do you guys use to get out of fox's drill? I would always try to SDI, but now I think I'm going to hold c-stick and double tap the control stick for 2 SDI inputs. After that you could hold shield to buffer roll, or let go of c-stick and punish out of stun.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

It's gonna be interesting to read your thoughts on PAL Ganon Eikelmann, considering that the general opinion is that he is worse than NTSC!

General opinion because when was the last time a good NTSC Ganondorf played in Europe? The last time was 09, and that was so brief that it didn't even count, not to mention that Linguini played like ****.

Also thanks for the recognition Dave <3

 

[-ACE-]

@ Эикельманн [РУС] lol. Your punish game is solid. The uthrow regrab traps have been overlooked for too long. And it's amazing how badly the cg frustrates spacies and falcon.

 

[Superspright]

Yeah I can't wait to hear that load of **** LOL

Theorycrafting: what method do you guys use to get out of fox's drill? I would always try to SDI, but now I think I'm going to hold c-stick and double tap the control stick for 2 SDI inputs. After that you could hold shield to buffer roll, or let go of c-stick and punish out of stun.

I CC then put up my shield (which goes straight to powershield), and then use that to slide back and land a grab out of his shine range. I sometimes use UP-B if I think he's just going to jump again. I don't think this is the best way to deal with it.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Tune into twitch.tv/vermontmelee today to see me and kage.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Theorycrafting: what method do you guys use to get out of fox's drill? I would always try to SDI, but now I think I'm going to hold c-stick and double tap the control stick for 2 SDI inputs. After that you could hold shield to buffer roll, or let go of c-stick and punish out of stun.

I like to flick the control stick to the right or left (depending on which side fox is drilling you from) and then down a notch, basically the exact opposite of what you would do if you wanted to ledge tech.

Foxes think they get that free shine, but doing this successfully and grabbing them out of the shine has a pretty high success rate.

Also works on falco at very low % (like 0-10 maybe)

 

[-ACE-]

Nice. I might try c-stick down and away and double tap the control stick.

 

[Sebovich]

General opinion because when was the last time a good NTSC Ganondorf played in Europe? The last time was 09, and that was so brief that it didn't even count, not to mention that Linguini played like ****.

General opinion cause fair and dair knockbacks are nerfed! But I read somewhere that you thought those nerfs where in Ganons favour, so that´s what Im interested in reading about.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

Check out the bling B)

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

General opinion cause fair and dair knockbacks are nerfed! But I read somewhere that you thought those nerfs where in Ganons favour, so that´s what Im interested in reading about.

idk what Ian's specific thoughts are but generally my view is that Ganon doesn't really have issues killing (does anyone have any numbers on how much later the PAL Dair/Fair will kill than NTSC?) and the weaker moves give him better combo ability. Add in that most of our hard MUs (especially Sheik and Fox) were nerfed means Ganon is overall a bit better.

 

[-ACE-]

Had a bye, 2-0'd saucy tho's falcon, then had to play Blea. Game 1 got rekt, game 2 I had it and threw it away. Then I beat a good G&W, and got beat by peach. Close game one, rekt game 2. Gotta focus on peach's camping more, that **** sucks lol

Only set recorded was vs Blea