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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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Sep 25, 2007
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The back country, GA
True Kage. The finer points of team play. Too bad the metagame for double dorf hasn't even hit puberty yet lol. Team chemistry is key, and if 2 Ganons have real chemistry as a team, the potential has to be unreal... it's just never been seen at top level.
 

PseudoTurtle

Smash Champion
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Nov 29, 2011
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Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
just exchanged my currency, american currency is ugly as ****
As compared to what... Your maple leaf scratch and sniff money (pretty sure this is true lol)? You know what you get when you sniff a REAL dollar? Coked the **** out... All of our money is legit covered in cocaine lol.

Jk Canada I like you. But real talk, we should have a Canada vs America ganon crew battle. Bizzarro vs n0ne def has to happen.
 
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PseudoTurtle

Smash Champion
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Nov 29, 2011
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2,162
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Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
Gotta say, I'm bummed about the RR, but Juggleguy has eternally earned my respect for putting leffen and leffen's ego in the same pool lol.

Guys, you know we can always record ganon dittos. I say each of us should do a mm (so it's serious), doesn't have to be much, like $1 or so, and ripple can record us. Then all the ganons who don't attend can be jealous and watch the hilarity that ensues a la ganon dittos. I know he's bringing his recording equipment. I'd be practicing with him now if my car battery didn't die :(
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
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Messages
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The back country, GA
I forgot, as goals of being a Ganon main.... As a goal, I want to play (basically) every Ganon main. And one day I will MM Kage ($200 like we said). I have played numerous matches with Renth, G. Vice, PseudoTurtle, Bl@ckChris, c-stick, Chaddd, Linguini, RockCrock, Spider_sense, Eikelmann, Bizzarro Flame, and many other Ganon players that are less notable (not bad for someone from NC ey?). I would like to play anyone and everyone I haven't played yet at some point. That is a goal.

I want to play tipman. I'm going to stomp his f*cking a$$ for not answering his phone while I was in FL.
 
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-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
Thomas Tipman (f*cking auto correct just changed that to Thomas Jefferson lmao): Official call out bro: we have to play next time I'm in FL or I'm gonna 3 stock you SON!

....basically I know only jason/Emilio can organize this, so tell tippy's a$$ that ACE claims he's the pioneer of the Ganon metagame, lmao. Tell him reverse uair has been the ACE spike for 4 years LOL. and whatever he says after that, say "Ace said you were going to say that, and he told me to tell you to suck a d*ck"

Recipe for success.
 

cptjiggles69

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
294
I want in on this crew battle! I'll be there friday night! I may have a setup too
As compared to what... Your maple leaf scratch and sniff money (pretty sure this is true lol)? You know what you get when you sniff a REAL dollar? Coked the **** out... All of our money is legit covered in cocaine lol.

Jk Canada I like you. But real talk, we should have a Canada vs America ganon crew battle. Bizzarro vs n0ne def has to happen.
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
Thomas Tipman (f*cking auto correct just changed that to Thomas Jefferson lmao): Official call out bro: we have to play next time I'm in FL or I'm gonna 3 stock you SON!

....basically I know only jason/Emilio can organize this, so tell tippy's a$$ that ACE claims he's the pioneer of the Ganon metagame, lmao. Tell him reverse uair has been the ACE spike for 4 years LOL. and whatever he says after that, say "Ace said you were going to say that, and he told me to tell you to suck a d*ck"

Recipe for success.
Side bet on ACE, 20$. =D
 

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
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Lowell, MA
alright guys if you have time between your bh4 talk i'd like to get some questions answered.

in my running shield drop practice i've noticed that i can barely get a bair out before hitting the ground on the lower platforms of battlefield and not even at all on yoshi's. and running shield dropping a uair seems to also come out a lot lower than a normal platform drop uair.

how many frames do i save from this dash shield drop exactly? i know i drop through the platform quicker, but is it worth getting that if my aerial comes out slower? it could just be that i'm doing the bairs and uairs lower because i'm dropping so quick, in which case it would be worth it.

also anyone here have platform canceling down consistently with ganon? is it even possible? i've been trying to do it with uair but i can't get it down even once.

also side note: even if the running shield drop stuff turns out not to be worth the practice when it comes down the frames, the uair out of it has been working pretty well in the friendlies i've been playing, even against the better players i run into. i guess no one expects me to drop into a uair out of a run.
 

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
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Lowell, MA
oh and finally, now that i've gotten things like pivots, rld (i can do it fully invincible maybe three times in a row max, still working on it) and a lot of other pretty useful technical things down, is it worth it to learn to moonwalk? i haven't really tried because you guys told me months ago that it wasn't that useful in practical application so i spent more time working on more useful things. but now i just feel silly knowing how to do all these things but not moon walk.
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
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Messages
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Montreal, Quebec
alright guys if you have time between your bh4 talk i'd like to get some questions answered.

in my running shield drop practice i've noticed that i can barely get a bair out before hitting the ground on the lower platforms of battlefield and not even at all on yoshi's. and running shield dropping a uair seems to also come out a lot lower than a normal platform drop uair.
You're too slow. You can get any aerials after dropping from a platform even on Yoshi's you can get the Dair hitbox to come out if you land on the slanted floor.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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Shield dropping is the sh*t man. Definitely keep practicing. Are you fasfalling? Try not to unless you plan on uair'ing. Remember the shield drop is fast (not sure on frames saved, 4-5?) so you have to hit the aerial quickly. You can block a move, and shield drop to FP (frame perfect) fair and hit your opponent standing on the platform. They'll flip lol.

Moonwalking has it's uses. Edgeguarding: you fair someone offstage... to close space quickly, dash, SHFF perfect waveland to moonwalk and reverse uair/bair are at your disposal. You can bait punish attempts with it too, people seem to assume that you will carry out the entire moonwalk animation when you can jump/wd at any time.
 
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X WaNtEd X

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You're too slow. You can get any aerials after dropping from a platform even on Yoshi's you can get the Dair hitbox to come out if you land on the slanted floor.
i can get all moves out from a standard platform drop. i've already experimented with the dair on yoshi's on the slanted floor. it's just getting a bair out on yoshi's from dashing into a shield drop that i can't do.

Shield dropping is the sh*t man. Definitely keep practicing. Are you fasfalling? Try not to unless you plan on uair'ing.
well the thing is i haven't found a method to doing a shield drop from the dash that doesn't involve fast falling. iirc the only inputs for this are --> to down + l/r.

Remember the shield drop is fast (not sure on frames saved, 4-5?) so you have to hit the aerial quickly. You can block a move, and shield drop to FP (frame perfect) fair and hit your opponent standing on the platform. They'll flip lol.
i've done this before. mostly i'll block and shield drop into uair because the fair is so hard to hit. but i'm not really talking about this application of shield dropping. it's using it as a movement option that interests me more at this point.

Moonwalking has it's uses. Edgeguarding: you fair someone offstage... to close space quickly, dash, SHFF perfect waveland to moonwalk and reverse uair/bair are at your disposal. You can bait punish attempts with it too, people seem to assume that you will carry out the entire moonwalk animation when you can jump/wd at any time.
interesting. i'll have to work more on it then. i started practicing it today. what i did was roll to the edge of a stage and attempt to moonwalk to grab ledge but i can't even do that. my fingers are just so used to dash dancing that rolling the control stick all the way is difficult to do. when i perfect waveland i will roll the control stick, but usually it's about a 90º roll because i do it from a fastfall as opposed to the 180º roll required for the moonwalk.
 

X WaNtEd X

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alright so to show you guys what i mean, i created a video. here it is


as you can see, i can get the uair out and it comes out damn fast. and i can do it from a dash dance. the problem is the bair. the animation comes out but not the hitbox. not sure if it's because i'm not fast enough or because it's just impossible to do from the dash.
 
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-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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Not fastfalling is tough, I can only get it here and there during a serious match. Every controller has a slightly different "sweet spot" as to where you want the stick to be to get the shield drop and not fastfall. Just gotta keep at it.
 

X WaNtEd X

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Not fastfalling is tough, I can only get it here and there during a serious match. Every controller has a slightly different "sweet spot" as to where you want the stick to be to get the shield drop and not fastfall. Just gotta keep at it.
wait it turns out you actually can get the bair out from a fast fall on yoshi's. went into slow motion melee and did it. should've thought of that sooner. i guess i'm actually not fast enough.

but back to what you were saying, i didn't realize there was a sweet spot that allowed you to do that. is it at a diagonal angle or something? because i've experimented with that too but i can't tell if i'm fast falling or not.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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Yeah, I seem to be able to get it with partial down/partial side input. Not going too far down requires some finesse (that I dont always have, lol).
 
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tm

Smash Ace
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NWOH
alright so to show you guys what i mean, i created a video. here it is

as you can see, i can get the uair out and it comes out damn fast. and i can do it from a dash dance. the problem is the bair. the animation comes out but not the hitbox. not sure if it's because i'm not fast enough or because it's just impossible to do from the dash.
Yeah you're definitely fastfalling. Only drop the stick to the notch (some controllers require it to be slightly farther, white controllers from my experience are pretty consistent about shield drop occurring at the notch though), not all the way down. It's actually easier to do it that way imo.
 

X WaNtEd X

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but now that i'm thinking about it, what would even be the point of not fast falling it? now that i've figured out how to get out all the aerials except for fair and dair out of a fast fall shield drop there's really no point in not fast falling it.

e: sorry for all the posts so abrbubly but could someone answer my platform cancel question? can any of you guys even do it? i don't think i've ever seen a video of a ganon doing it in a tournament set.
 
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RedmanSSBM

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@ X WaNtEd X X WaNtEd X It looks to me like you're not doing the aerial the moment that you shield drop. I make sure to just do the motion of doing a bair with the c-stick in conjunction with doing a shield drop so that the bair starts to come out the first frame that I'm dropping. You can start bairing as soon as you see your shield for 1 frame then drop. It becomes a muscle memory thing and I've messed around with shield dropping enough to know that's the fastest way to do it. I also don't fast fall because I slightly hit down and not slam it. It's a slight movement for me when doing a shield drop and it feels nice and smooth. Kage is definitely right in that you can get the dair hitbox to come out if you shield drop and dair after the first frame of dropping through.

The only real application of moonwalking that I can see is building momentum to do some off-stage shenanigans that catches your opponent off guard. The moonwalk retains your waveland speed to a degree and you can end up traveling in the air faster than you would if you were to just dash and jump off stage, plus you'd be facing away from the ledge, setting up for a bair or uair follow-up.

Moonwalking can also be used to turn yourself around on platforms so you can grab the ledge easier to look cool doing it lol. Sometimes delaying your movement with a moonwalk tricks your opponent and you can get an easy follow-up.

Just practice moonwalking with Falcon a lot and it will transition over with Ganon.
 

tm

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but now that i'm thinking about it, what would even be the point of not fast falling it? now that i've figured out how to get out all the aerials except for fair and dair out of a fast fall shield drop there's really no point in not fast falling it.

e: sorry for all the posts so abrbubly but could someone answer my platform cancel question? can any of you guys even do it? i don't think i've ever seen a video of a ganon doing it in a tournament set.
Well if you fastfall, you won't be able to hit them if they're on the platform. And don't count out the usefulness of the fair and dair either. It will also be a lot harder to waveland from the fastfall, although if you get good at it it's even more useful. Basically you should be able to do it both ways.

And in general another nice use of moonwalking is ledgedash->moonwalk on stage, a good way to get to the center of the stage quickly with your back facing them (usually for bair)
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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Just wanted to say, @ X WaNtEd X X WaNtEd X providing video examples to illustrate specific scenarios is awesome. Even though you had already explained it perfectly. It's stuff like this that makes the G boards one of the best melee character specific forums.

Also, you can moonwalk on a platform to delay aerials (they expect platform wL to aerial or fastfall into something, they commit to punish, but you moonwalk instead and can drop down afterward and punish). You can do this by moonwalking off the platform normally, or you can do a shorter moonwalk and drop/shield drop whenever you want.

GL at big house brothas.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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@ tm tm fastfalling actually increases the window of opportunity to input a perfect waveland (I believe 1 frame normally, 2 when fastfalling), but yes, you do have to be quick to move the stick after you fastfall haha.
 

Divinokage

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Screw you, everybody, just btw. ;)

So to not fastfall im guessing you have to put the joystick back to neutral while shield dropping? Doing it with dair must be pretty much impossible and impractical probably lol
 
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