![Эикельманн [РУС]](/data/avatars/l/153/153661.jpg?1415225120){kind=avatar}
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
gonna be using pivot jab/ftilt a lot this week. near the ledge, did dair --> pivot jab --> fair in tournament yesterday, it was amazing.
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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Linguini
- Start date
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
If you're being shield pressured, one thing that FlaminRoy told me was to lightly press your shield button to do a light-shield and then hold away for that shield DI. Cause you're in light-shield, you go a nice distance without having to smash your stick; less effort. Plus you can still simply just press A to shield grab once you're at the right distance, or just get out of there with a safe WD OoS.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Bah I dont even play Sagat anymore, way too hard. lol. I just play Ryu/Ken and Gief atm.
But ya it's basically it, you have to know whats going on before they do.
n0ne
Smash Ace
Yea its good. Just remember u get massive shieldstun so u can get trapped in shield if u keep doing this oponentes will realize it and punish
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
I love how often jab can be combo'd into fair at the ledge.
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
I love jab.
Coastward
Smash Lord
i love ganondorf.
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
wait what's even the purpose of pivot jabbing a dair? to send them in the opposite direction as a normal jab? i understand why you're starting to pick it up in neutral, i am too actually. but i haven't found any uses for it in situations like that.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
I pictured jumping from near the ledge (like from a ledghop), jump over them but catch them with Ganon's heel on the dair, pivot jab, fair offstage. From RLD would be slick.
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n0ne
Smash Ace
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
they were near the ledge and i got a dair off. i had enough time to either bair, uair, or reverse fair...or pivot jab into fair. decided to go for the latter and it worked out. pretty sure it sent him further than any of the other options. and it was unexpected so they DI'd it like ****.
@
-ACE-
it was from a rld, technically.
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Divinokage
Smash Legend
Ya I often do downtilt to catch a jump off-stage into jab, drop zone Fair and they cant do **** about it since they lost their jump.. Too godlike this combo. ^_^ The downtilt is good to catch a jump non sweetspotted which happens very often because of the lingering hitbox.
If they DI the jab, whatever, just freaking do anything off-stage anyway.. lol. If they DI downtilt, oh well I guess, easy edgeguard.
If they DI the jab, whatever, just freaking do anything off-stage anyway.. lol. If they DI downtilt, oh well I guess, easy edgeguard.
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Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
yesssss ganondorf down tilt is totally the scoops haagen dazs of melee lol
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
dtilt = bread
uair = butter
fair instead of uair = toasted
uair = butter
fair instead of uair = toasted
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Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
Holy crap. Hitting with Ganon's thigh's on the ending frames of his upair sends everyone like hella far at a nice downward angle. I'm even able to do it off of missed techs. Woaah.
Also, I think I've gotten that Kage dair timing down. You know, when your opponent misses a tech and you dair at just the right timing to pop them in the air. Feels soo gooood.
Also, I think I've gotten that Kage dair timing down. You know, when your opponent misses a tech and you dair at just the right timing to pop them in the air. Feels soo gooood.
Yeah, **** is so good. such good combos from that. Too bad you have to read the no tech or miss the punish completely
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
hey so idk about you guys, but since bizz and i are the only double ganondorf team at this event, i feel like we're representing the ganondorf community by competing at this. anyone interested in brainstorming teams strats and ideas/concepts? help us fight to victory!
our pool is here http://tbh4.challonge.com/meleedoublesa17
the teams to beat are
plank/milkman (sheik fox)
macd/vanz (peach/peach or peach/sheik?)
vro and kels (falcon? and fox)
abate and kirbykaze (luigi and sheik)
toph and hyuga (fox and jiggs)
frootloop and darkatma (falco fox or falco sheik or fox fox?)
sweet and carroll (sheik and fox)
and then of course, armada and m2k.
i haven't done a serious double ganondorf team in ages, so i'll have to cram in some warmups friday night to try and get the feel for it. how do YOU guys think the team should be played? should we stick together often? or should we try and do our own things? what should our roles be? should i support, or should he? those are the kind of things i want to discuss.
please help! @
-ACE-
@Superspright @
L
Linguini
our pool is here http://tbh4.challonge.com/meleedoublesa17
the teams to beat are
plank/milkman (sheik fox)
macd/vanz (peach/peach or peach/sheik?)
vro and kels (falcon? and fox)
abate and kirbykaze (luigi and sheik)
toph and hyuga (fox and jiggs)
frootloop and darkatma (falco fox or falco sheik or fox fox?)
sweet and carroll (sheik and fox)
and then of course, armada and m2k.
i haven't done a serious double ganondorf team in ages, so i'll have to cram in some warmups friday night to try and get the feel for it. how do YOU guys think the team should be played? should we stick together often? or should we try and do our own things? what should our roles be? should i support, or should he? those are the kind of things i want to discuss.
please help! @
-ACE-
@Superspright @
L
Linguini
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n0ne
Smash Ace
In general.. for the 2x dorf team MUs, same thing i told coasthey so idk about you guys, but since bizz and i are the only double ganondorf team at this event, i feel like we're representing the ganondorf community by competing at this. anyone interested in brainstorming teams strats and ideas/concepts? help us fight to victory!
our pool is here http://tbh4.challonge.com/meleedoublesa17
the teams to beat are
plank/milkman (sheik fox)
macd/vanz (peach/peach or peach/sheik?)
vro and kels (falcon? and fox)
abate and kirbykaze (luigi and sheik)
toph and hyuga (fox and jiggs)
frootloop and darkatma (falco fox or falco sheik or fox fox?)
sweet and carroll (sheik and fox)
and then of course, armada and m2k.
i haven't done a serious double ganondorf team in ages, so i'll have to cram in some warmups friday night to try and get the feel for it. how do YOU guys think the team should be played? should we stick together often? or should we try and do our own things? what should our roles be? should i support, or should he? those are the kind of things i want to discuss.
please help! @
-bairs and retreating bairs is the best for avoiding friendly fire. All of his other moves have massive hitboxes and its lame when u hit ur partner with something.
-never forget that ledgedrop tipman is an option for edgeguarding. Ppl seem to forget that.
-dont fall in the bad habit of only doing jab alot. It happens to alot of ganons, even myself until i realize it
-CC to low angled ftilt. Yea i read when u said that thing about d tilt but low angled ftilt > d tilt nuff said
Up b out of shield when oponent is behind u and u read that their gonna put their shield up after a blocked aerial. Dont abuse it otherwise theyll start to roll
cptjiggles69
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2012
- Messages
- 294
Up b ahould be used sparingly but definitely has a good surprise factor. And decent range when your back is to your opponent! I want to see more ganons utilizing this and nair. Kage you are my hero for nairing
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Divinokage
Smash Legend
No.. you don't have to read it at all. If I see you no tech I'm going for it with 100% accuracy, there's visual cues on the no tech you can see such as the green aura coming out when someone falls down on the ground. There's no reason why you should over extend. If there is a tech then, I just run after you. lol.
It's actually the opposite of what you are saying, I always expect a tech so if there's nothing then.. well free punish. A lot of top players have that ability.
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Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
you mean the eikeldrop?
I thought he was referring to a dair that hits them just as they hit the ground, missing the tech, when it bounces them back into the air
I just looked at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5DD_SLCmrU&t=46s thinking that it was an example of what I meant but it's actually on his 2nd 'bounce' that you daired him. But even then, was the dair really a reaction?? What would you have done if he didn't miss the tech? (you already started the jump before he landed) Or is this not the situation you're referring to?
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Yo, tm, yea it really is a reaction. I usually expect them to miss the tech though, as opposed to kage. But if they tech away, I like to perfect waveland into ftilt (not guaranteed when you jump that slowly, I think). But, like kage said, you're tipped off instantly by the green light and stuff. Start your jump in a way in which you can cover both tech in place and no tech. But usually with the jab, they're gonna miss the tech.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
No I wouldn't have, I would have probably just empty hop instead if they did tech for a new kind of chase instead. In those cases then i can turn around grab or something. Then just run after them in the corner if they tech away. If not there's also empty hop, side-B, d-smash usually i think it's pretty good to do. If I know the opponent likes to tech in place however, I just punch them away lol. I got Jason (pkm) last weekend a lot with that.
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-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Lmao. I was thinking "Ian is fully aware of good how good that is". I've been doing it for like 7 years myself. Free KO's for days. @spider_sense you could do this more often (ledgedrop uair).you mean the eikeldrop?
Also "jab alot" is ambiguous. You just can't spam jab. Reactive jabs are straight ca$h.
The double dorf team takes a lot of focus for each Ganon player, having to keep a decent eye on all 3 other players at all times. I'd be looking for quick gimps as much as possible; you don't want to let your teammate get wrecked but Ganon cant really save his teammate that easily aside from pressuring/scaring the opponent that's trying to edgeguard him, so getting the KO means slightly more than it usually does (vs saving teammate) with other teams imo.
Other than that, safe neutral game play and less risky edge options.
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
I've tried Eikeldropping multiple times during friendlies and I always seem to miss and then **** up my timing of my jump to where I don't grab the edge and die. What should I be aiming for when I want to do it against Marth, and other matchups? The dying part is just me not jumping as soon as I can. Well, I can land on stage every time if I time it perfectly. Just seems hard to do in friendlies (I've also not tried it in friendlies enough. I should do it more)
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
so we should stay together, right? try not to get separated much?
i'm not going to be the one going for risky stuff. i think i should be the one playing support, while bizz does the serious ****.
also any help with matchups with the teams i listed would be really helpful as well.
you should be doing it when you either a. know they don't have a jump or b. they are in lag from doing something (think marth side-b, kirby jump).
if they don't have a jump and they're under you, it's basically a guaranteed kill and you have no reason to not go for it other than not being able to do it. DON'T fastfall it ever, obviously.
what do you mean by landing on the stage?
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Divinokage
Smash Legend
Yes close but not too close where you both get faceroll comboed to death. You have to do some ultimate sandwich combos to edgeguard while covering the one who is off-stage. If you fail to cover the other Ganon, you'll die easily.
Loki was ok in teams when I played with him but he was whiffing a lot of potential combos that could give us some sick momentum. You must not whiff your combos!! Double team that **** all day.
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-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
I think finding the right distance to remain apart is like half the battle and depends on a lot. Too much space is bad and so is too little. I can't really say anything specific unless we're looking at a certain MU. A lot of it will simply be trying to keep some breathing room in the small amount of neutral game that exists, since two Ganon's will never be able set the pace of the match unless they are winning exchanges.
Mad respect, I love going double dorf but it's hard.
Mad respect, I love going double dorf but it's hard.
cptjiggles69
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2012
- Messages
- 294
Any techs in place ahould be stomped, thats freee comboing for ganon. Its liie kage said, you can see when they tech or not, just move accordingly
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
If you time you keep holding back after the upair and do a backwards double jump into an up-b towards the stage, it puts your far enough and high enough to where you can just barely land on the stage instead of grabbing the ledge. Really useful for if you whiff and your opponent just grabs the ledge. Try it sometime.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
You can jump and up-b onto stage any time if you just hit jump as soon as uair ends, and up-b at peak of dj.
You are spacing it for the tipman spike since that's the farthest hitbox the uair projects backward. Anything closer works too as you're fully invincible throughout the uair following a ledge regrab.
It IS risky if you dont have the spacing of the uair right. You can always RLD uair for more range but you won't be invincible.
You are spacing it for the tipman spike since that's the farthest hitbox the uair projects backward. Anything closer works too as you're fully invincible throughout the uair following a ledge regrab.
It IS risky if you dont have the spacing of the uair right. You can always RLD uair for more range but you won't be invincible.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
I laughed at Eikeldrop, does everything have names!? loll.. Then if I do Dair instead is that the Kage drop? 
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
That's a suicide kage lol. From now on, I'm calling suicide dairs "Kage Bombs" lmao.
Suicide dairs are legit. If you are at similar % and up a stock, it's what you should do, imo (not just dair but whatever kills them).
Suicide dairs are legit. If you are at similar % and up a stock, it's what you should do, imo (not just dair but whatever kills them).
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Divinokage
Smash Legend
LOL, well ya suicides are worth it. ^_^
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
RLD to offstage dair when someone is recovering is riddled with disrespect too. So much fun haha.
Also tipman spike to immediate dropzone aerial. Situational but boss.
Also tipman spike to immediate dropzone aerial. Situational but boss.
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
I'm talking about the many situations where your only guaranteed kill in a particular instant means also taking your own life. It's worth it if your percents are similar (esp if yours is high) and you're up a stock. It gets better as the match goes on, as having 2 stocks vs 1 is better than having 3 vs 2 or 4 vs 3.
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Divinokage
Smash Legend
I think the real key for Double Ganon to work really well is when one Ganon commits to a move, the other Ganon is already waiting to punish the other opponent trying to punish the Ganon that committed first. If you have that kind of timing, you'll destroy faces easily. And also have sick spacing too, ofc.