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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

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X WaNtEd X said:
I helped too. *takes bow

Anyway, what do you guys think is a better edgeguard against fire fox/falcos? Reverse uair, ftilt, or bair? I've been doing ftilt to cover in front of me/low and then I'll uair real quick if they go high. I feel like this isn't that great though.
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For Firefox, If he does it too close to the stage, I jump out and upair him. If he goes for the ledge from a high up-b, then you can easily bair that by going low with the bair and timing it right. If fox is coming from low to the ledge an uair spike can trade, or you can be ballsy and go out there for a dair, if timed correctly.

For Falco, he really doesn't have a whole lot he can do. You can jab his Firebird pretty easily as it doesn't really have a hitbox. Bair works well when falco wants to sweetspot the edge from above when using firebird. Ganon is pretty good at covering that option if Falco uses it. It's his other ledge options that can be rather annoying to cover.
 
S

Superspright

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Tipman people every day. Nothing is more reliable if you can do it. Ftilt only works if their spacing is bad, and same with bair. You can use fair in some cases to hit sweet-spotters but your timing has to be flawless, but it's stylish as ****.
 
Эикельманн [РУС]

Эикельманн [РУС]

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yeah i'm pretty partial to uair spike when dealing with firefox. though i will say if they're coming from underneath and you don't think they'd have a chance to tech anything, go for the dair. and if they're within range, don't be afraid to go out and punch them. people really overestimate the length of spacie up-b. it's pretty slow.

you can also go suuuuper far out and try to get a trade. the fire will hit you and you can still make it back in some cases. i'll try to find an example.
 
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-ACE-

-ACE-

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Hey guys. Superspright found a video. Just fair marth and sheik when they try to sweetspot from now on, its golden.

Seriously. You can't compare fair to uair or dair man. I know that if you are perfect fair reaches SLIGHTLY lower than bair but that's it. Nowhere near good enough for a sweetspot.
 
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spider_sense

spider_sense

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Anyways, Mark let me just say that committing to muscle memory is definitely not a bad thing, you've coupled all the experiences you've learned and put it into your own style of play. This is why most top players usually say "Play your game" sure it's great to improvise during a tournament, but the outcome isn't 100% guaranteed. I also found a really good way to shut down spacies but it takes timing and some prediction. All you really have to do is manually get back on the stage and d angle f-tilt. Added with Ganon's invincibility on the stage, you shouldn't have to worry about getting hit with the firefox itself. I still think Tipman spiking is the the best option you could make but sometimes it isn't viable do to the firefox recovery. I also think that d-tilt is another great way to punish sweetspots, but Ganon has to have his legs extend past the stage. I got that from Kage while watching his vids vs Mattdotzebb.


Mark and Dave we really should update that matchup thread and make another thread explaining how to utilize Ganon's tech from the basic ones to the more unorthodox and obscure ones. I really wish I had some editing equipment and software so I could help out more.

@ S Superspright - Bro, why come on the boards and run your mouth. I don't understand. Threatening to kill good natured people does nothing but infuriates everyone. Instead of coming to the boards and act like you have the biggest ****, just be insightful with the intention to teach others and learn. Take my advice with a grain of salt. I could honestly care less; I'm just here to help my boys out.
 
L

Linguini

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Lies ian! i'll be there no doubt...rust and all. maybe pull off a random upset and make fun of the player for losing to an old man

didn't read through all the bickering but i'm pretty sure me n ace are the biggest ganon players....lehgo

@ RedmanSSBM RedmanSSBM no i'm hours away from orlando lol but i'm down for friendlies of course
 
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RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

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Do NOT **** with the Blackmon brothers.

@ L Linguini Figures. If we do play friendlies I'm gonna want some Ganon tips and critique. I'm aiming to have a Ganon as good as yours circa 2009.
 
PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

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Linguini said:
Lies ian! i'll be there no doubt...rust and all. maybe pull off a random upset and make fun of the player for losing to an old man

didn't read through all the bickering but i'm pretty sure me n ace are the biggest ganon players....lehgo

@ RedmanSSBM RedmanSSBM no i'm hours away from orlando lol but i'm down for friendlies of course
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What MostHatedInNC said.

And for the record people: please do not try to fair sweetspotters.
 
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WINK ;)

WINK ;)

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Alright, I recently decided I wanted my Ganon to be the stylinist-ass-****ing Ganon on the planet like Bizzaro Flame.

Can someone refer me to a tutorial, thread or explain to me how to those foxtrot moonwalks where you dash and automatically go back but keep doing it until you fall off stage?
Also can someone explain how to do the sticky walk/run?


EDIT: I feel very inadequate with all these amazing Ganon's in the chat........ I will make you all proud. One day.
 
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-ACE-

-ACE-

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Sticky walks and moonwalks are all about initiating the dash animation with altered momentum. You can create it after you input the dash by moving the control stick after you initiate the dash, as long as you don't cross through the neutral position which will make you dash dance. Momentum created from a waveland/wavedash will carry over into the momentum you use to move your dash animation (on a perfect waveland to pivot moonwalk, you do not need to be frame perfect on the moonwalk to get maximum distance out of it as the momentum of the waveland carries over), and will make sticky walks look better and more fluid when you link them into a moonwalk.

start your dash and immediately go to the other direction, passing under the neutral position to moonwalk, then start playing around with other directions. I can't remember EXACTLY how to moonwalk into sticky and back to moonwalk because I don't practice it and dont have a cube right now, but with some practice you'll get it. It's not that hard once you can moonwalk well imo
 
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cptjiggles69

cptjiggles69

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Shoutouts to you guys for all the advice. My ganon has gotten really fast now and moving around the stage is easy now. No longer have falco problems woo
 
cptjiggles69

cptjiggles69

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Yeah but i understand the matchup and have a better sense of what i can do. Nothing at all. Lol anyways need to get my butt to a tournament
 
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MosthatedinNC

MosthatedinNC

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The tourney I got 5th at, I was beaten by a falco and a.... mewtwo


All 4 of my match losses were 1 stocks at least
 
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MosthatedinNC

MosthatedinNC

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A good mewtwo can do some cool things on spacies, but ganon shouldn't be losing to him. I lost 1-2, and each loss I had him to 1 stock and more than 100%. I should've had it, I haven't played many mewtwos, etc

At a recent Florida tourney I think spider_sense beat prof convincingly who is a really good mewtwo.
 
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WINK ;)

WINK ;)

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-ACE- said:
Sticky walks and moonwalks are all about initiating the dash animation with altered momentum. You can create it after you input the dash by moving the control stick after you initiate the dash, as long as you don't cross through the neutral position which will make you dash dance. Momentum created from a waveland/wavedash will carry over into the momentum you use to move your dash animation (on a perfect waveland to pivot moonwalk, you do not need to be frame perfect on the moonwalk to get maximum distance out of it as the momentum of the waveland carries over), and will make sticky walks look better and more fluid when you link them into a moonwalk.

start your dash and immediately go to the other direction, passing under the neutral position to moonwalk, then start playing around with other directions. I can't remember EXACTLY how to moonwalk into sticky and back to moonwalk because I don't practice it and dont have a cube right now, but with some practice you'll get it. It's not that hard once you can moonwalk well imo
Click to expand...

Alright thanks! I will mess around with that a lot.
 
RedmanSSBM

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So I've messed around with this before and I don't know if there are any really useful applications for it, but I find that if you do a perfect waveland and then jump with the momentum of the waveland at maximum speed, you go flying like Falcon. This can be used to do a super retreating fair, or even a full-on charging up-air or something. I notice that this momentum is the fastest that Ganon can acheive and jumping retains that momentum from the waveland. The only applications I can think of with this is that I can really reach an opponent from a far distance if they don't know what's coming, maybe extend a combo or something... Not sure, but I want to see how I could apply this in an actual game.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

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Yeah the momentum transfers into jumps also. Lots of players use it. Frame perfect dash sh dair out of a ledgedash with Ganon is so smooth. The key is just inputting the dash at the right time. You can do it long before the waveland is finished, and must do it before the momentum dies.
 
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M

MinorThreat

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Hey linguini. I have a few questions

I have trouble facing many approaches from fox/falco/cf

Fox sh nair approach i tend to use well spaced aerials but mostly ftilt. It works ok, but I have more trouble against fox full jump nairs. I can sometimes up air or upsmash them, but most of the times it leads into annoying combos. What's a good counter against full jump nairs? Also nairshines (or drillshines) eventually hit. Should I try to CC grab them at low percents? What's a good defense against waveshine upsmashes or waveshine grab?

For falco, laser nairs absolutely kill me. I don't powershield well enough yet, but is there something else I should be doing? Sometimes I can get the falco to **** up his spacing and get a tilt or jab in there. What's a good counter to laser nairs or even lasers in general? Jumping seems so dangerous against falco, but I get how it makes ganon smaller.

Also for both fox and falco, ftlits are great for breaking momentum from their approaches but sometimes they just nair again and combo me. What are good follow-ups to ftilts?

For falcon I've been getting good with ftilting nairs and get the rock paper scissors matchup, though Falcon's knee is pretty much a gun in the game. I don't get how to use shield properly. Doesn't it just give falcon all the momentum?
 
S

Superspright

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-ACE- said:
Sticky walks and moonwalks are all about initiating the dash animation with altered momentum. You can create it after you input the dash by moving the control stick after you initiate the dash, as long as you don't cross through the neutral position which will make you dash dance. Momentum created from a waveland/wavedash will carry over into the momentum you use to move your dash animation (on a perfect waveland to pivot moonwalk, you do not need to be frame perfect on the moonwalk to get maximum distance out of it as the momentum of the waveland carries over), and will make sticky walks look better and more fluid when you link them into a moonwalk.

start your dash and immediately go to the other direction, passing under the neutral position to moonwalk, then start playing around with other directions. I can't remember EXACTLY how to moonwalk into sticky and back to moonwalk because I don't practice it and dont have a cube right now, but with some practice you'll get it. It's not that hard once you can moonwalk well imo
Click to expand...
My favorite trick is to sticky walk the animation with my legs intersecting the floor and he's like a plank. You just moonwalk and then moonwalk the opposite direction you're running right near the end of the first moonwalk. At least that's how I remember doing it. It just looks stupid.
 
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L

Linguini

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Sh and fulhop uair both destroy fox's fullhop nair. I would recommend learning how to ASDI the shine as crouch canceling can only get you so far. I like to asdi/cc at the same time to maximize the jank. I'd asdi those waveshines away into shield. If the fox is doing it correctly he's going to hit you though. Fox is broken lol.

Full jump stomp against laser nairs. You can also di away and jab when the laser hits you to make space when the falco nairs into your spot. Powershielding is good but not crucial. Learn how to space your jumps to get around different types of lasers. It's kind of hard to explain so i'll just link you to a vid with a good example of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u-4omOZvjY

Ftilt is a great zoning move and it can lead into tumble so you can counter with offense. Jab right after to avoid that renair.

I like to stay moving against falcon as it allows me to gtfo out of the way when he jumps in and throw out a hotbox. Dashdancing into shield can be successful off of instinct, although good falcons will bait it obviously. You don't want to be staying in shield while he's dash dance camping, he's too quick. Uair is essential against falcon and it can beat the nair if timed properly.
 
cptjiggles69

cptjiggles69

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One thing that works as well is dashing forward then immediately jumping back for bair or even up air. Doesnt work as well with dair though
 
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