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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

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Elyssa Xey Hexen

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That is a pretty hefty dair. Yet, it seems to be a fair challenge. You must bair in mind, however, that I might not happen upon any intelligent rivals for you to challenge. Nor acquire instantaneously rivals for you. My best guess at the moment might be an armada YL who appears to have the experience of trying to keep away. Overall, it would seem to me that YL simply has the means to avoid being grabbed with the acceleration and projectile to do it. Along with the means of landing the final KO via bomb -> dair.
 
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RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

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Safe to say at the smashfest I had today I was able to beat basically everyone or at least go toe to toe and come pretty close.

**** it's 3am.
 
Эикельманн [РУС]

Эикельманн [РУС]

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Xeylode said:
That is a pretty hefty dair. Yet, it seems to be a fair challenge. You must bair in mind, however, that I might not happen upon any intelligent rivals for you to challenge. Nor acquire instantaneously rivals for you. My best guess at the moment might be an armada YL who appears to have the experience of trying to keep away. Overall, it would seem to me that YL simply has the means to avoid being grabbed with the acceleration and projectile to do it. Along with the means of landing the final KO via bomb -> dair.
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wow, you're awesome.

also yeah grabbing yl is free as **** lmao
 
spider_sense

spider_sense

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@ L Linguini and Ace - Do any of you guys know how to do the Guini grab (vs spacies) or rather, what's the input and timing for it? I also remember Emilio saying you can grab shines and jab. My question is how? Do you wait for the shine to physically come out or is it prediction? Once I get that down, along with Ganon's true pivot f-tilt. I can start making that match up look winnable again.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

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as soon as the shine hits your shield and you begin to slide back, input grab. all it does is put you outside the range of additional shines. He'll get grabbed if he does anything except full jump out of shine.

@Ian I agree with everything you said, I just think y.link's speed is a huge help. Ganon is defeated by not allowing him any room to breathe, and I think that is one of the few advatages y.link has over link in this case... But it's an important one.

And honestly chaingrabbing link is a breeze with some practice. against y.link you have a larger time window to get the grab but they both get cg'd all day.

and how are grabs vs campy (how they should play vs ganon essentially) y.link's free? He doesn't have to approach and he's much faster than Ganon. I don't have problems getting grabs really but I don't see it being that much easier than grabbing link.
 
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Coastward

Coastward

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can you grab fox/falco out of phantasm like falcon can?

gonna see if i can start stylin on some people if its possible.
 
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Elyssa Xey Hexen

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You should practice spacing it in a way in which you grab him, but get hit the very next frame by the phantasm hitbox. Therefore, you release fox/falco from being hit and sent them at a super awkward angle.
 
RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

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I'm wanting to have my Ganon be more grab-centric than anything else. I notice that I like to throw out a lot of aerials. Too much infact. I want to develop a much better grab game where I'm almost always going for the chaingrab and I pummel my opponent two or three times, to get in that free damage. If I mess up a chaingrab I could probably still follow up. Plus pivot fairing a fox cause he DIed behind you is rather satisfying. I don't know why I don't try to grab more. Tomahawks, wavelands into grabs, pressuring my opponent. I can see it now. It feels different when you're looking for your opponent to shield as well. You start to notice it more and you can pick up on their shield habits real quick, and take advantage of that and get a grab. I even changed the way I hold my controller to make it easier to jump-cancel grab and chaingrab. I have my index finger using Z only, and my middle finger use R. It takes a bit to adjust, but it makes for doing pivot jump-canceled grabs much easier. I also get into this "chaingrabbing mindset" where I want to pummel my opponent in between throws to rack up that percent. I've been trying to do some stupid chaingrabs on a lot of characters, and most people I play don't know how to get out of them, so free damage. Hell, I just recently got my friend to 90% just by grabbing pummeling and regrabbing cause he didn't know what to do. To down-throw for the chain-grab, I use c-stick instead of control stick. It allows me to do the pivot regrab quicker and with less hassle. I really hope I can slowly start turning my Ganon to be more grab centric, cause this **** is fun as Hell and I feel like I could get it down to a T.
 
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Superspright

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Xeylode said:
You should practice spacing it in a way in which you grab him, but get hit the very next frame by the phantasm hitbox. Therefore, you release fox/falco from being hit and sent them at a super awkward angle.
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That's some super jank stuff. You can also do that against their double laser ledge-option. It forces the up-b which = death.
 
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-ACE-

-ACE-

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I actually totally ignored that because I didnt understand what he was saying (not to mention there are only like 8 people that really know Ganon specifics so I ignore **** a lot... lol). The phantasm has to be at the right height for a grab, then its just timing. You either grab them mid phantasm or get hit.... not sure if any phantasm hitbox is around after you grab Falco.
 
MosthatedinNC

MosthatedinNC

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I've caught falco mid fantasm as ganon backwards. went through my back and grabbed him and wasn't hit by the hitbox at all.
 
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Superspright

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Grab is a solid option against it since most people won't be ready to DI your option and if you get it right you'll toss em to their death. Only a fool wouldn't aim for your scalp though.
 
Renth

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MosthatedinNC said:
I've caught falco mid fantasm as ganon backwards. went through my back and grabbed him and wasn't hit by the hitbox at all.
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Falcos fantasm hitbox trails behind falco, so if you grabbed falco while he was flying at you there would be not hitbox to worry about. Fox is the opposite, his hitbox is on top of his character. Also, Grabbing backwards is a thing I do in a lot of situations I wish I had video to back up what i'm trying to say but, I can often see positions of poorly spaced opponents where your jab will reverse/a backwards grab would work... years of playing i guess
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

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Against Doc.... You really want to try and fake him out with your movement/dj if you are high enough (good di gives you more options) to do it. If you're far enough offstage he'll just bair you or cape your up-b and you're dead, but close in it's possible to bait him into leaving an option uncovered once you know the range of his attacks/typical edgeguard techniques... given you at least have your jump and can use your up-b wisely. Obviously Ganon is easy to gimp but the better you space your up-b the more exchanges you'll win with it. Reverse up'b covers cape and makes teching easier when you have to recover low.
 
PseudoTurtle

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Actually, there are a few gimmicky things you can do that actually make recovering a possibility. If you expect him to cape, you can up-b facing away from the ledge. If he capes, you recover. If he dsmashes, you die because you can't tech that. Fortunately for you, this may break him out of the habit of caping and he may rely on dsmash, which isn't too difficult to tech when facing the ledge
 
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Elyssa Xey Hexen

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MosthatedinNC said:
I've caught falco mid fantasm as ganon backwards. went through my back and grabbed him and wasn't hit by the hitbox at all.
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I certainly remember something like this happening before. I might be getting it confused with the ledge hop'd lasers which happened to me last night actually. But, I believe it happened with a grab before. Just not on ganon himself.
 
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