Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Coastward]

whoa never thought of using that.

developing the meta game as we speak.

 

[Nujabes]

To what extent does maining a mid-low tear affect your melee future? This may not be the best place for this but, i am a Ganon main so this feels like the right place.

I love Ganon, I love how he plays and how his combos feel (dirty). I am also very stubborn sometimes, so, becoming an adequate player with Ganon is in part due to that. But, say i was aiming to be the best player, would trying to become the best with a character like Ganon inhibit me or put success out side of reason?

We recently saw an amazing/nigh unbelievable performance by amsa, his tech skill just blows my mind. How much of this was due to lack of match up experience, and will amsa end up switching characters, or will he pick up a high tier second main? His performance reminds me of axe at pound 3 (I think this is where Axe got 3rd), although I am admittedly horrible with remembering tournament results.

Kage, I consider you the best Ganon around and the embodiment of Ganon, i am sure many others agree. When you beat sfat and Westballz it gave me hope for ganon. <3 <3 But, do you feel like this character limits you at higher levels of play? and if you tried to switch to a higher tier character, do you think your history with Ganon would limit you?

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

it was mostly matchup inexperience combined with the fact that amsa has truly mastered his character completely.

 

[Renth]

Ganondorf can wreck people super hard.. Ganondorf can also get wrecked super hard.

Amsa was very clearly out playing people with his character he wasn't just a gimmick which was super impressive.

 

[Linguini]

Amsa is the ****. that being said he is the master of gimmicks lmao...he's got mad skill tho

Kage is the best ganon now by default only because I quit haha. Gotta give kage props doe the ganon is looking much more smooth than it used to lmao

Making a comeback this year already won 2 fl tournies so I know my ganon isn't complete trash at least. Going to ceo in a few weeks so we'll see. The washed up guini back in action!

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

omg you're going to ceo? ditto mm me plz, so glad you're going man.

 

[Linguini]

lol i'm down dude. should be fun

 

[Renth]

Also down for a MM Guini. RockCrock and I are going. EikelGuini vs. RenthCrock

 

[Linguini]

sounds manly as ****. let's do it

 

[Coastward]

Also down for a MM Guini. RockCrock and I are going. EikelGuini vs. RenthCrock

my goodness THE REVIVAL OF GANON PLEASE LET THIS BE RECORDED I'M ACTUALLY HYPE FOR THIS

 

[Divinokage]

Amsa is the ****. that being said he is the master of gimmicks lmao...he's got mad skill tho

Kage is the best ganon now by default only because I quit haha. Gotta give kage props doe the ganon is looking much more smooth than it used to lmao

Making a comeback this year already won 2 fl tournies so I know my ganon isn't complete trash at least. Going to ceo in a few weeks so we'll see. The washed up guini back in action!

Pfttt.. when you beat the top 10 in the world let me know. ^_^

 

[PseudoTurtle]

linguini, you've been saying you're making a comeback for a year now lmao

 

[Superspright]

If he comes back though he will definitely be one of the best Ganon's though [he probably still is]. I always felt he was cleaner than Kage.

 

[Linguini]

lol kage in my time I did son. have you ever beat colbol? I have no doubt I could destroy any spacies in the world...**** is cake

 

[Coastward]

ganon dittos are so boring ZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

ganondorf dittos are the only dittos i can enjoy.

 

[Renth]

ganon dittos are so boring ZZZZZZZZZZZ

Agreed, I dislike Ganon Dittos, It's all who can spam back air and not approach the most. Yay...

Mario Dittos > Ganon Dittos

 

[Superspright]

That's strange. I always thought it was fun because you can powershield each other and punish, but also the matchup is kind of stupid because you can CG one another until death usually from edge-guard.

 

[Divinokage]

lol kage in my time I did son. have you ever beat colbol? I have no doubt I could destroy any spacies in the world...**** is cake

I think i only faced him twice if I remember correctly.. at Pound 3 and Apex 2014, it was too close at Apex. =(

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Question: Trying to learn to shield drop with ganon. I've been watching kage for some time and it seems to be extremely useful. How would you guys suggest going about practicing?

 

[Superspright]

If you're trying to learn shield-dropping the easiest way is to crouch on a platform as fast as possible without falling through. That's the shield-drop timing. The best way to use it IMO is to use rising aerials onto platforms BF height and shorter and then to immediately cancel the full landing AC animation with a shield-drop. It makes Ganon a lot faster, and he can throw out double Uairs faster than he could anywhere. Practicing this under shield-pressure is where it's going to be difficult, but if you can do it you have a very safe way to avoid a situation and also to punish with numerous options such as drop through jump back up waveland grab, or drop through uair which covers most of the platform.

Experiment with different angles of shield-dropping. It's typically 'easier' to do it by banking the control stick on a slight angle as you attempt your drop. Either slightly left or right makes it simpler. Keep trying to crouch as fast as possible and then go into shield and you'll see that it's the same timing. It's just a way you can rapidly get down the timing.

 

[Coastward]

ok im finally going to a tourney tomorrow after 2 months.

hopefully all of this studying has really improved my play, main goal is just play as many people as possible and keep learning.

also i had a question about shield dropping too, does lightshielding do anything to make shield dropping easier?

 

[Renth]

ok im finally going to a tourney tomorrow after 2 months.

hopefully all of this studying has really improved my play, main goal is just play as many people as possible and keep learning.

also i had a question about shield dropping too, does lightshielding do anything to make shield dropping easier?

I've never tried with a light shield... so.. I'm uncertain

 

[Divinokage]

Question: Trying to learn to shield drop with ganon. I've been watching kage for some time and it seems to be extremely useful. How would you guys suggest going about practicing?

I'd have to show you, I learned from Vectorman and Amsa at Apex. I watched how they do their inputs, it's actually really simple but I definitely want to practice it a lot more. It'll improve my Ganon further, since I'm not yet an expert at it I can't really give advice for it. Don't be shy to ask around other people, the timing is the same for all characters. The only difference you have to get used to is shield stun.

 

[Superspright]

I've never tried with a light shield... so.. I'm uncertain

There isn't a difference. I z-shield and then shield-drop all the time when I use rising FH aerials on BF.

[EDIT] I should note that light-shielding has different stun properties [you stay longer in shield stun IIRC] so you should be aware of that, and also its traction may push you off if you get hit by even a medium strength attack.

 

[Coastward]

the tourney was a success.

learned a lot of things from people, especially raynex. we sat down for like an hour just giving each other tips about ganon and other stuff.
played a lot of friendlies, put a lot of my newly learned skills to use. still could use a lot more practice.

even broke some habits too. i'm not sitting in shield as much as i used to, and i've been starting to wdoos. i even placed higher than i did last time.

 

[Linguini]

Shieldropping out of a held shield could be great against floatier characters but against spacies their aerials come out way too quick. That Being said it's really an unexplored part of the ganon metagame. I suck at it lmao and I don't own a cube to practice

 

[Superspright]

Linguini...typically Ganon has no OoS option aside from some powershield shenanigans, but with shield droping he can deliver a uair immediately from a drop on the platform. I think it's not amazing, but it definitely beats shine if you know they won't double or triple shine on you. He won't be able to grab you as you fall through, and if he tries to rising dair you are underneath him. I think it's good against everyone, and better against floatier characters.

And against Fox it may put you beneath the platform if he does double-shine.

 

[Coastward]

yo kage, congrats on the SS stuff!

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Shieldropping out of a held shield could be great against floatier characters but against spacies their aerials come out way too quick. That Being said it's really an unexplored part of the ganon metagame. I suck at it lmao and I don't own a cube to practice

Hmmm this is all very interesting. I guess I know what I'm practicing.

While I'm at it, how come no ganon has tried very hard to master chain grabs? I realize they're incredibly hard to pull off on spacies and the likes, but still you'd think more people would try to utilize a potential 0-death combo with a character like ganon that has enough going against him as it is.

 

[Superspright]

Everyone is scared they will screw them up. It's also not easy to do on the spacies, but it can definitely be done on Falco and Fox if someone trained it hard enough. It's the hardest CG in the game hands down. Whoever masters it is going to the scariest Ganondorf. Grab -> Death is some Ice Climbers ****. I chain grab whenever I get the chance. I'm not going to give up a free death from a single move.

 

[Coastward]

ive been practicing my CG grab like its the only thing i have. i once got a 0-death CG on a falco, was the greatest feeling ever. super hard though.

 

[Superspright]

That's the problem. In order to use it it has to be trained all the time. The timing and reaction has to be literally frame perfect or close to it. We barely have time to read the DI as well, and better opponents will use slight DI to avoid the grab. Other things may also suffer, but I think if a Ganondorf wants to make it through to the top of the bracket he needs this in his bag. Peach wouldn't be so great if she didn't have a CG--the same is true with Fox, and Marth, and other characters. Their CG's make them very dangerous to fight against. Albeit their CG's are easier than our own.

If you could even complete the CG 50% of the time that would mean 8 grabs = a game. That would be pretty impressive. I've seen Kage get at least 4-6 a match. If he could convert half of those into a death we'd be seeing how dangerous a grab is. He still did CG as much as he could and it got him a ton of percent and positioning.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Alright another question. Sorry for all the questions but I'm in tryhard improve mode right now so...

I'm having trouble get the ledge hop waveland down. Honestly I'm starting to think this is an even more important thing to master than the shield drops so I'm working it first. I often get cornered in my games on the ledge and have trouble making it back into the neutral game. Anyway, I can ledge hop just fine. But I can't seem to waveland fast enough. I'm not sure if it's a timing problem or a control problem. Here's my inputs if I'm doing it from the left ledge:

<--, --> + x, r + --> (directed diagonally downwards of course)

Is there anything more I can do except get faster? I heard someone say that you have to like hug the stage or something but I'm not sure exactly how to do that. Discuss.

 

[Coastward]

Alright another question. Sorry for all the questions but I'm in tryhard improve mode right now so...

I'm having trouble get the ledge hop waveland down. Honestly I'm starting to think this is an even more important thing to master than the shield drops so I'm working it first. I often get cornered in my games on the ledge and have trouble making it back into the neutral game. Anyway, I can ledge hop just fine. But I can't seem to waveland fast enough. I'm not sure if it's a timing problem or a control problem. Here's my inputs if I'm doing it from the left ledge:

<--, --> + x, r + --> (directed diagonally downwards of course)

Is there anything more I can do except get faster? I heard someone say that you have to like hug the stage or something but I'm not sure exactly how to do that. Discuss.

ledgedashing was pretty hard for me too when i first started playing ganon, i cant lie it still is pretty frustrating when i miss it here and there.

what i tend to to is drop from the ledge, then immediately jump > waveland onto the stage. so my inputs are ( V, ^, R + </>).

it takes some time to get used to the timing of when to waveland, but you'll get it down soon enough. try to do it often during friendlies so that you get used to how it works, and so that you can do it more consistently. that 'hugging to the stage' term sorta makes sense to, try to angle your waveland into the center of the stage. that's pretty much all the advice i can give you.

 

[Superspright]

I do it claw style so it's easier for me. I hit c-stick back, then immediately press jump and then DI toward the stage and then at the right time I press L. Practice just getting on the stage invincibly from ledge. If you can do that then you can work on getting the rest of it.

 

[Coastward]

i wish ganon had better colours

 

[dERO!]

For the slight di tricks, can't we pivot grab those at some point ? It's funny we were just talking with my mate about cg'ing with ganon and messed with it during our games tonight

 

[Superspright]

You can of course pivot grab them, but they put themselves in a weird spot where it's almost guesswork to know if it's a turn around grab or a standing one. At high percents this works better because you're trying to grab Shiek's legs and it's easier to whiff them if she slight DI's behind you to make you think standing grab will snag her.

It's of course not full proof--good attention to detail and proper reaction beats any of these tricks of course. You should have your friends experiment with different DI to try to throw you off.

 

[dERO!]

well our grab is wide, and when focused knowing where to grab ain't really a problem to me, mine are more popping a shield or missing a boost grab