Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[tm]

From my limited experience vs ICs:
Don't stay on the ground too much, use platforms a lot and try to poke him with fair / bair. Even if he shields it, that's good for you, because it's keeping him on the defensive, and a lot of times you can shield poke or nana's shield won't come out in time.
Always be conscious of the range of space they can zone with wavedash -> grab / dsmash. Don't spend too much time there, or if you do try to bait the WD and punish with jumping out of the way -> dair or something. If you messed up and they got up in your face, JAB! It will beat their grab. It will lose to dsmash, but grab is much, much scarier. If you mess up and think you will get hit, make sure your DI is good for dsmash, and if you get grabbed by god start mashing as fast as you can. Every time you get grabbed it's a kill opportunity for them, and every time you get out you basically get that stock back.

Once you get them separated, start whacking them. If you are hitting nana, be able to turn around and hit popo at the last second if he is coming to get you off her, just be quick / sneaky about it. Uair and bair are good in these situations.

I suggest NOT doing sideB / downB really at all in this MU, because there are easier ways to get hits and it's super risky. Also in general, wavelanding away can get you out of some dangerous spacing if for example you're coming down and already used your double jump but are close enough to potentially get grabbed upon landing.

Play patient & cautious. Don't get grabbed, and make note of the setups that your particular opponent likes to use to get them. Poke with aerials. Ban FD. Good luck

Feel free to override any of this with advice from more successful players.

 

[Coastward]

probably won't be on for the rest of the night, so..

HAPPY NEW YEAR FOLKS!

 

[RedmanSSBM]

2013 was the year of Luigi.
2014 will be the year of Ganon.

 

[Renth]

2013 was the year of Luigi.
2014 will be the year of Ganon.

No. No. It won't.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

No. No. It won't.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

HAPPY NEW YEARS!!!

I promise for a better year for Ganon!

 

[dERO!]

happy new year guys it's 4am in france, if anyone goes to europe for beast or avalon, keep us posted
for the ic stuff, i never lost to an ic in tournament and i've just been doing platform camp with mixups, it's not an advice at all, but it's still information

 

[Linguini]

happy new years peeps. won a tourney recently with ganon, might be going for round 2 this weekend. hopefully I can get back into some melee this year and bring back the gdub!

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Hey guys, I don't know if this has been posted before, but I found a unique way to edgeguard as Ganon on FD or FoD.

Basically, you do a perfect waveland when you're near the edge, and then jump while you're still on the stage. The momentum of the waveland should propel you far, and allow you to hit a bair followed up by an uair, or really any other combination of moves.

I'm pointing this out because the waveland is the fastest that Ganon can move, and therefore it translates to his aerial mobility. His moonwalk doesn't cover much distance and I don't think wavedashing will give the same result.

I can make a video of this to demonstrate what I am trying to say.

 

[Divinokage]

You should just reverse uair instead of Bair, it covers more options. You can combo reverse uair to Bair sometimes depending how they DI, that's the faceroll edgeguard finisher. lol.

 

[Coastward]

all my friends are telling me to secondary a character since im having trouble against sheik but,

GANONDORF FOREVER

realk talk though, **** sheik.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

all my friends are telling me to secondary a character since im having trouble against sheik but,

GANONDORF FOREVER

realk talk though, **** sheik.

I'll be playing my first matches vs. Sheik as Ganon, but once I lose, out comes the Falcon.

 

[Coastward]

I'll be playing my first matches vs. Sheik as Ganon, but once I lose, out comes the Falcon.

i sometimes go back to my puff since that was what i played before ganon, but i really dont like straying away from my main. it feels like im cheating.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

i sometimes go back to my puff since that was what i played before ganon, but i really dont like straying away from my main. it feels like im cheating.

Good thing Falcon is just as manly as Ganon

 

[tm]

lol switching to falcon to 'counter' sheik

 

[RedmanSSBM]

lol switching to falcon to 'counter' sheik

You got a better counter idea that doesn't involve spacies?

 

[Coastward]

You got a better counter idea that doesn't involve spacies?

puff LOL

 

[RedmanSSBM]

puff LOL

OR FLOATIES. I don't like playing as floaties =/

 

[dRevan64]

OR FLOATIES. I don't like playing as floaties =/

That...kind of eliminates all the characters that beat sheik.
I mean at that point you might as well stick to ganon since at least you get your chaingrab.

 

[tm]

You could also do the ditto, that's not a spacie or a floaty

 

[dERO!]

having a lot of troubles against shiek, too, any good idea to get a grab, anyone ?
I get trashed by ****** shieks, i can't get the grab in neutral and always end up doing something not so reliable as a response

 

[Divinokage]

Stick to Ganon until you are close to my level.

Use your crouch often vs Sheik at lower %, it eliminates many of her options where she won't be able to approach safely, she can't jab/Ftilt/dtilt/dash attack in this situation because if she does you have time to counter-attack with jab/grab. (Grab obviously every time you can)

So then a good Sheik will start to want to throw needles and jump Fair, in this case, always throw out the quicker moves like uair/bair to stuff that ****. Now obviously Sheik is faster than you so you have to take your time and read her while spacing with DD and wavelands, use both to your advantage to not get grabbed.. i think Ftilt in angles is also usable for poking, sometimes when she's close for example then jumps, you can upward Ftilt. But ya in general it's REALLY important to keep moving and keep her guessing. If you are in the air first then it's pretty hard to deal with anything, you need excellent ground game and make her jump first.. it's pretty good to play somewhat near her but not too much. I know Ganon's aerials are good but if you committed to it first, you'll get punished... Sheik can easily wait your aerial out then grab. Make every hit count! If you can make her shield often also, it's pretty good for you since her options OOS vs Ganon is pretty terrible. So ya in resume, have great movement, make her jump first, use fast aerials in general as counter-attacks to her aerials, CC her **** at % and already you should do a lot better.

 

[tm]

Stick to Ganon until you are close to my level.

I don't disagree with this idea, but can you explain very thoroughly why one should do this?

I have thought a lot about playing multiple characters, counterpicks, and their effectiveness at each 'skill bracket', and related it to successful smashers (ex: mango becoming amazing with puff, then mastering many other chars and becoming one of the best). I have also found it much easier to improve my alts up to the level of my ganon, finding improvement much more easily and quickly than with my best character (I believe this is a combination of me having my own personal ability cap right now, and that the alt characters have more useful / effective options). Oftentimes I think it is good to keep playing many characters, but I see the most success in players like yourself / mango / most top players, who devote vast improvement to one character before branching out, but I can't explain to myself why that would allow faster / a higher level of improvement.

So, can you explain it?

 

[Coastward]

kage, you're still coming to mcsmashter right? hopefully you can help me out with some stuff then and we can get some friendlies down.

 

[Divinokage]

I don't disagree with this idea, but can you explain very thoroughly why one should do this?

I have thought a lot about playing multiple characters, counterpicks, and their effectiveness at each 'skill bracket', and related it to successful smashers (ex: mango becoming amazing with puff, then mastering many other chars and becoming one of the best). I have also found it much easier to improve my alts up to the level of my ganon, finding improvement much more easily and quickly than with my best character (I believe this is a combination of me having my own personal ability cap right now, and that the alt characters have more useful / effective options). Oftentimes I think it is good to keep playing many characters, but I see the most success in players like yourself / mango / most top players, who devote vast improvement to one character before branching out, but I can't explain to myself why that would allow faster / a higher level of improvement.

So, can you explain it?

It all depends what your goals are. I can quickly say that if your goal is to win right now then you aren't really doing it right because there's probably so much things you need to work on as a player before even realistically contending so I think it's better to develop a deep understanding of the game rather than scratching the surface and counter picking characters to make your life easier. Ill elaborate more later.

 

[tm]

Sweet. Looking forward to hearing more

 

[Renth]

Sweet. Looking forward to hearing more

tm, you should have played me in more than one friendly while I was in PA

 

[tm]

tm, you should have played me in more than one friendly while I was in PA

I agree, unfortunately I didn't even see you until finals were happening and we had to leave pretty soon after because the 5hr drive. I got almost no friendlies in the whole tourney, but hey we at least got one, much better than none. I'm sure we'll play again, and I'll be much better

 

[Divinokage]

Sweet. Looking forward to hearing more

So about goals, personally the reason why I played Ganon from the beginning even though I knew he has a few hard matchups is because I wanted to prove the impossible and win tournaments with him. Also, obviously I connected with his style of play a lot more than any other character, I mean that I've found success in improvement a lot faster than if I tried to play alternate characters because I didn't have the will to train these characters in the first place. I've won a lot of teams tournaments and came close to winning nationals so I'd say my goal pretty much satisfied my desires.

Now, if your goal is winning for real you should definitely start with a top tier character and learn everything that way so you won't need to go back and grind alternate characters and wasting time trying to improve with multiple characters. Its going to take years with this method of playing multiple characters because your time used between all of them will be scattered. I guess it's good to play them once in a while when you reached a plateau so you can understand what these characters have and what they look for in certain matchups. I'd recommend at least using a main character 80% of the time minimum.

So ya, all depends what you want to do in this community.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

got 5th at a tournament in miami this weekend in singles. got 3rd with lambchops as well. almost beat blea gelo (and it was recorded). there wee 5 ganondorfs present (myself, tipman, spidersense, linguini, dap).

who all is going to apex? if a lot of you are i might be down to go still but only so i can meet up with all of the ganondorfs. love you guys.

 

[Coastward]

my apex plans fell through, school johns. we definitely need a ganondorf meetup though.

in other news i keep having the same dream nightmare of repeatedly getting 4stocked by random falcos LOL

 

[dERO!]

sounds like a painful nightmare ^^

nowadays my mate's been playing a lot of fox on me, as soon as I get in shield he goes medieval on my ass, any tips for getting out ? i'm decent at powershielding otherwise, do you guys think we can "rely" on it? well i guess any thing has its place, I use it a lot with fox and marth but with Ganon i don't find ways to be quickly responsive after a powershield only nairs and wd grabs seem to work for me atm ( almost the same case as being shielded against a falcon to me )

it's probably just my lack of skill but a lot of times it feels like crouching is my best option, i hate those moments, and I get a lot of those ( that line was just for whining purpose )

 

[Superspright]

http://www.twitch.tv/smashingatempire/b/494460629?t=81m

1:21:00-1:34:00
This was at a local tournament. Something like 20 people entered or maybe more. I placed 3rd.

The next set I get destroyed, but I haven't been able to play anyone really beside a damn Peach and a newer Fox/Falco main. The Peach is apparently the best Peach on the Island, and arguably one of the best. He's won my locals before and other tournaments I've gone to in the area. Thought some of you might like to see my crappy Ganondorf.

He didn't seem to be on his A game today, but no johns.

 

[Nujabes]

I was skimming through the Gannon vs. thread and was wondering when the last time it had been updated or changed was. I looked around and couldn't find a date. Could it possibly be out of date atm? The meta may have changed a bit since 2009 but, I haven't been keeping up wih stuff the past couple of months so maybe it's the same.

 

[Superspright]

It's pretty out of date IMO. It has a lot of good stuff in it though.

 

[Coastward]

yeah that thread is DEFINITELY OUT OF DATE

 

[Coastward]

http://www.twitch.tv/smashingatempire/b/494460629?t=81m

1:21:00-1:34:00
This was at a local tournament. Something like 20 people entered or maybe more. I placed 3rd.

The next set I get destroyed, but I haven't been able to play anyone really beside a damn Peach and a newer Fox/Falco main. The Peach is apparently the best Peach on the Island, and arguably one of the best. He's won my locals before and other tournaments I've gone to in the area. Thought some of you might like to see my crappy Ganondorf.

He didn't seem to be on his A game today, but no johns.

ALSO THOSE MOONWALKS PUT A HUGE STUPID GRIN ON MY FACE, hope to see more stuff soon.

 

[Superspright]

Perhaps we should all rewrite the matchups again. I think most feel Ganon doesn't have the potential to win a tournament.

 

[Coastward]

Perhaps we should all rewrite the matchups again. I think most feel Ganon doesn't have the potential to win a tournament.

just gotta keep practicing, A GANON WILL TAKE A NATIONAL SOON ENOUGH. GANONS WILL BE ON THE RISE.

 

[tm]

I'm having a lot of trouble improving lately. I'm significantly better than the friends I can practice with, and I have them figured out for the most part, so they aren't challenging me to become better. In this situation, I try to work on being more creative and trying out new things, but progress is very slow. Despite this situation, when I go to tournaments I place very poorly or don't make it out of pools, and during friendlies with other more seasoned players, I don't seem to even be a challenge at all, and I get wrecked. It's hard to tell what I need to work on the most or how I can even work on something when getting beat that badly, and if I can improve these aspects of my game playing solo or with my friends.