Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Geenareeno]

Nah, that's all really helpful, thank you. Just seeing all those options and what you wrote will help me. And yeah Raph, I could use fair.

 

[Dorsey]

Cool... usage of the tipman spike can be insane if your confident with that very last part of the hitbox like i mentioned.. can even go quite a bit off-stage with it for an easier shot / catching someone right after they use their jump or something. it's devastating.

the specific scenario you put up I forgot to comment on. if he's straight down and even with the wall on DL then most likely i'd wind up doing a dropzone dair, depending on my positioning and time. Most of the time I'll time the drop more so than the actual dair, because I want to be able to shove downC as soon as I go over the ledge usually so it's less of a risk. an early dair also allows you to jump out of a FF quicker, if ff'd. In general though, you'll have a greater success with moves like this if you focus on the certain windows to best do them in, as in focusing on watching your opponent for when they are truly most vulnerable(this is where spacing is crucial with ganon, spacing moves to the best of their hitbox in these windows, which are usually situations where it's harder to do so...kind of like blending these 2 abilities together as if it's a single skill on it's own...which really, it is...rockcrock, kage, etc. make it look easy), opposed to solely the best/easiest opportunity for the move to connect.. you'll be catching them off-guard more and seeing less meteor cancels.

the dz dair is a good option assuming that the fox can firefox into the stage and sweetspot(best thing he can do to avoid most of your options, unless you give him an opportunity to burn you), but at the same time it's "situational" because the fox could also be assuming he's about to get dair *****. The "best" option by the circumstance could even be sitting back and waiting for the fair opportunity.. or with less time you could sit back and space down angled ftilt right, bair, or whatever. i'd prob. say that the best option over-all by the circumstance is the tipman spike though.

**** i need to find something better to do than ramble on the ganon boards.. x-mas parade for a few hours and there's 1 road here so i sort of can't go anywhere.

 

[Geenareeno]

Yeah starting the dair earlier will help. But this fox man, meteor cancels it everytime. I'll just use a better up air or wait and do fair.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

so many ganons going to apex. goddamn this is depressing ;____;

 

[Palpi]

Kage's advice on dair is "if it doesn't work the first time...do it again"

and i want to play all the ganons at apex with peach cause I need to learn the MU and its fun!!! :D

 

[Divinokage]

Well for edgeguards! lol.

 

[-ACE-]

You can dair to drop zone dair if they meteor cancel in range.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

What does it mean for a Dair to be a drop zone Dair?

 

[Divinokage]

Dropzone is pretty much running off a ledge or platform and do a move without fast falling. (Preferably early so the move comes out or that you won't die and you can make it back) Fast Falling will usually result to death if you do it.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Alright, thanks. I've done that by accident before when I forgot to press Y. Being able to do that without it being an accident seems really useful. I've been in a few situations where that would have allowed me to take a stock off my friends.

 

[Divinokage]

Yes sometimes it is but doing it off-stage is risky... since if you don't hit it and the opponent expects it, you'll probably die too. Also Ganon can do lots, like wavelanding on top of it and then slide off with a move (I guess that could be considered dropzone too.)

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

ganon dropzones feel weird. i prefer uair'ing while hanging on the ledge. few ganons seem to do that. it looks/feels so tight. gotta be careful with timing, though.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

How do you Uair while hanging onto the ledge? I've fallen from the edge, then jumped to reverse Uair (the same movement as a ledgehop, except I don't go onto the ledge), but I've always had to use an UpB to get back up to the stage. I've found it useful for edgeguarding and for hitting opponents near the edge of the stage, since my ledgehop timing isn't good enough (yet) to do an invincible ledgehop jab.

 

[Divinokage]

You probably aren't doing it fast enough. I usually take the basic approach with the joystick. I simply press down on the joystick then immediately let go of the joystick for a split second to put it back to neutral and not fastfall, jump as soon as Ganon lets go of the ledge while going towards the stage and then press C-stick up for uair. The timing is really fast, it's like less than a second if I could explain it.

I know some other people are more comfortable letting go of the ledge by pressing the C-stick away from the ledge (So that there's no way to accidentally fastfall) and then jump right away but I mean i guess you have to find your own way of doing it.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I'm not going towards the stage, so that's probably it. I did do it by accident the other day, though. I went up, did the Uair, then landed on the stage partway through the Uair animation.

What I've been doing is letting go with the c stick, then going straight up with the joystick and pressing A. Being able to do that and go onto the stage is awesome, I'm going to start practicing it tomorrow.

On a side note, I did something similar to that the other day with a Dair. I'm not sure exactly what I did, given that I was trying to do a ledgehop jab, but it looked kind of like I did a ledgehop Daired on the ledge, then grabbed onto the stage. Does anyone know exactly what I did? I might start recording my practice sessions in case I do something like that again.

 

[Dorsey]

Yeah, you did a quick little ec during the first part of the dair animation then dropped to ledge grab.

The other thing, I do it like kage said and definitely think it's easier than the way you're doing it. I just barely press down on the jstick then x to jump up immediately, aerial with cstick.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I see, thanks for explaining it to me.

When I first started learning to ledge hop I tried that, but I would always DI down and die. I've gotten better at DI/ledgehopping/techskill/melee in general since then, so I'll try that out too.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I hit and hold right on analog then up on the cstick directly after, then up-b immediately.

it's really good against marth, especially if they're recovering low.


this is assuming we're talking about falling uair from the ledge, lol <_<

 

[Linguini]

You can dair to drop zone dair if they meteor cancel in range.

true, but it can get a bit trickier than that sometimes, especially on curved stages like fd.

keep on dairing is terrible advice for edgeguarding kage lmao. play a fox like colbol that meteor cancels almost flawlessly and you will understand the usefulness of the uair.

 

[Dorsey]

@c.mooney

I thought that he was just talking about having enough time to uair after a ledge hop..though I didnt go back to double check

and yeah, reverse uair is the best considerimg everything..but..aside from being abnormally good at mc-ing, we know what a good opportunity to meteor cancel is..but I just don't think someone would be doing it as consistently when the time is right for it. High%, distance from death, plus and if the dz dair is being used correctly agaimst fox(sparingly), you could catch him not thinking about the meteor smash, idk. Even then the tipman is still looking better most of the time

 

[Geenareeno]

a fox like colbol that meteor cancels almost flawlessly and you will understand the usefulness of the uair.

This this this this. Gotta practice u air, I guess.

 

[-ACE-]

If they MC and are at kill%, wait for them to overshoot the up-b and bair them.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

dave, your user status reminded me of this song.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMbwoEZLD5M

american music so guuuuud

 

[-ACE-]

Gucci mane don't want it. Cause my rhymes are ill like a kid with a bad cold, his style is mad old, he's small as a tadpole. This is a giant here, an MC rap pioneer, before he battle me he better throw on his riot gear.

 

[Grape Ape]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB7ITH4iolg&list=UU6fdmkwB_PgPalfy3-g-aIw&feature=plcp

This is from a friendly set i played with a friend last night...the second match is unimportant because its us as (mediocre) spacies, but I would like some advice on approaching and dealing with jigglypuff, since it's sorta obvious that i was struggling. Any advice?

 

[Comrade]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB7ITH4iolg&list=UU6fdmkwB_PgPalfy3-g-aIw&feature=plcp

This is from a friendly set i played with a friend last night...the second match is unimportant because its us as (mediocre) spacies, but I would like some advice on approaching and dealing with jigglypuff, since it's sorta obvious that i was struggling. Any advice?

You are way too aggressive and the Jiggs punished the hell out of it.
My advice would be to mix up good fair spacing (which beats out the vast majority if not all of Puff's moves) with a constant defense of bairs, without becoming too predictable. Also, past like 40%, a grab on Jiggs should be close to a kill, so try to incorporate waveland->grabs. But be careful, if your grabs start becoming predictable, she'll just duck them and rest you.
EDIT: Like, at 2:30, that should have been a fair. Stuff like that.

When you grab and dthrow, it is a guaranteed hit. If she DI's forward, fair and kill her. If it's up, Uair (unless you can stretch the fair to hit), and of course use bair if she's behind. Ganon getting a grab on jiggs is practically his own version of a rest, but, much like her rest, shouldnt be relied on.

Also, if the jiggs is prone to spamming moves like fair, nair, or pound, just throw a lot of uairs into her face.

EDIT: Also also, if you're coming down from the ceiling for a loooong while and you're slooooowly DI'ing towards them... don't just try to dair them. It's totally predictable, will be shielded every time, and you will be punished. The same goes for coming down platforms at them from above. Mix it up with a properly spaced bair/fair or maybe even a waveland to some sort of smash or grab.

The ganon/jiggs MU is slightly in her favor, but it's one of my favorites because one mistake from either party is death. Hopefully you can get some more in-depth advice from one of the pros, but there's my 2 cents

 

[Dorsey]

more bair

 

[-ACE-]

The matchup is more than just slightly in jiggs' favor... And one mistake by jiggs doesn't necessarily mean death like it does for Ganon usually.

Your spacing must be precise. Approach with fair less and bair/uair more. dthrow > usmash works around 55-65%, but it won't ko at 55% unless you're on a small stage. Stay in motion and keep her guessing. Utilize dash dancing, wavedashing, and perfect wavelands to help compete with her speed. DI jiggs Utilt behind her. If you are rested above 25-30%, purposely di away so you will die sooner and punish sleeping jiggs. Utilt is best if she's above 20%. At 0%, dair her twice then techchase. Learn how to punish her out of any di from dthrow.

 

[Grape Ape]

[stuff]

That actually helps a lot. the few people i play with tell me I'm far too agro, so i absolutely need to work on that. I appreciate the matchup advice from you and -ACE- as well, since im not well versed on that one. Thanks for taking the time to help me out.

 

[-ACE-]

true, but it can get a bit trickier than that sometimes, especially on curved stages like fd.

How so? regardless of the stage, you'd dair, L-cancel, dash, as soon as you are airborne hold backwards and dair. You have time to see if they MC the first dair too low for the dropzone dair, in which case you'd just DJ back onstage.

Just now noticed this reply.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yoo i'm high but i think guini is right. if they cancel soon enough, it can get in the way of things too. fast falls can also do weird things to their positioning. it's a good way for opponents to get around us in general.

 

[-ACE-]

You have time to hit them before the up-b takes flight.

 

[Divinokage]

yoo i'm high but i think guini is right. if they cancel soon enough, it can get in the way of things too. fast falls can also do weird things to their positioning. it's a good way for opponents to get around us in general.

You aren't sure when you are high? loll.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

my thoughts have been a little jumbled up lol. i could be a lot more effective while playing, but giving advice in edgeguarding situations through imagination is weird for me. I'd be able to do it, probably very effectively, but it'd be reaction and not me recognizing a specific situation.

 

[-ACE-]

Well, I'm not imagining this, I use it lol. Just like I often dropzone dair spacies after a reverse uair spike on a sweetspot attempt. I only do it to fox when I have more stocks, so if he MC's i DJ suicide dair him.

 

[spider_sense]

Everyone here has so much hate in their hearts...I love it. lol

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Well, I'm not imagining this, I use it lol. Just like I often dropzone dair spacies after a reverse uair spike on a sweetspot attempt. I only do it to fox when I have more stocks, so if he MC's i DJ suicide dair him.

Suicide dair?f If you're going to suicide, why not downB? It makes you look so much cooler.

 

[-ACE-]

You'd have to edge cancel the dair to land that. Otherwise you'll be facing backwards and won't have enough time to get in position.

 

[Divinokage]

Everyone here has so much hate in their hearts...I love it. lol

Maybe somewhere very deep inside my heart. Otherwise, I'm happy. =) (To own faces)

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Follow up question: If you do a suicide Dair, won't they be able to MC it? Or will they be too far down for it to make a difference?