Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Linguini]

yeah, I wish you coulda been at the tourney. I couldn't make it on friday night.

I was only there by chance anyways lol.....saturday was the wedding I was there for at chapel hill.

I envy your skill in the falco matchup. Sheik/Falco/Fox vs Ganon really kinda depress me sometimes. Especially in a state that's very well trained vs all things Ganon :/

I got ***** soooo many times to get to the level I am right now, with ganon you just have to use your losses as motivation and figure out what you did wrong. Sheik is doable but i'm just lazy and don't feel like putting in THAT much effort. Plus with fox it's just so much more simple and effective.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah, i know. u makin it to apex?

 

[Geenareeno]

Goddamn. You better go to Apex. I want to see how you do at a national, since it's been awhile.

 

[Jane]

rockcrock's new combo video is so ****ing amazing. inspires me to pick up DK.

the sudden music changes are also really awesome. if i were to ever make a combo video (lol... MAYBE ONE DAY), i would totally do that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28XUXIDnc0E

 

[Strong Badam]

yesss use DK

 

[-ACE-]

lmao, more NC Ganons. Now we all just have to get good so we can give FL some competition LOL

 

[Linguini]

Yeah, it's def been a good while since i've been to a national. I'm prob going to apex, but that date is just really bad for me(school,family vacation)

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I spent a few hours on this at school today, and I have a few questions.

I'd worked on wavedashing before, and I can kind of do it. Am I correct in assuming I want the angle of my air dodge to be as horizontal as possible? When I wavedash, I usually move a little bit, then raise my shield. Am I holding R for too long, not dashing far enough, or both?

I tried some landdashing, which I found a bit easier, so I think I'm getting the hang of that. I also think I'm getting the hang of the short hop and fast fall, though I'm still not used to the speed of the fast fall so attack too late.

Are there any videos of the ledge hop? I haven't been able to do it yet, which I assume means I'm not jumping soon enough after I let go.

Are there any other tricks I should know for playing Ganon? I'm going to try to get to the next NCSU event, so I'd like to at least look like I know what I'm doing when I die.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Excellent! More Ganon players. NC is definitely Ganondorf central now, seeing as there are only really four Ganons in Florida...

Train him, Chris.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

will do.

really, there's only 4 now. me, jim, ace, and now raphaelrobo. i've been around for 2 years and still haven't met 59JS...

also raphael, great place to start is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDs-lPmIUec

 

[-ACE-]

there's also dama, who is also inactive... and mitsu, who still plays occasionally I think.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Thanks for the video, it was pretty useful. I'm starting to get the hang of all this. I accidentally worked out how to dash dance today, so that saves me the time of learning it. I can successfully wavedash something like 75% of the time, but I need to work on my angle. Platform dashing is easier than landdashing, because I can see Ganon's feet more easily, so I'm working on that first. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think getting the timing right will help me with landdashing and ledgedashing. My edgeguarding is getting better, but I will occasionally miss and die. I need to stop doing that.

I feel like I'm making good progress on these, so I should be ready to use them a month from now. I still expect to lose every match, though.

I battled a friend of mine at school yesterday. We had one game, and he beat me with Ness. Fortunately, I was able to learn from my mistakes in that game. For example, when I'm forced to use a PS2 controller, I should practice with it first. Also, jumping out to hit Ness when he still has a jump left is a bad idea. There were a few other mistakes I made, but I can't remember them at the moment. I was also able to learn how Ness works, so I stopped walking into his PK Flashes (well, technically it was jumping off the ledge into them, but you get the idea). After learning all that, I was able to dodge most of Ness' attacks, and I was able to 2-3 stock him five times today. I think playing against someone else helped me a lot. I'd grown too used to playing against NPCs, so I was expecting him to act like one.

That ended up being a bit longer than I'd intended it to be. Anyway, I feel like I'm moving along smoothly, and should be ready for the next NCSU. If I have any other questions, I'll ask them here. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[-ACE-]

**** ness with uair and bair. you can't fair a good ness, it's similar to how hard it is to fair a good jiggs.

if you grab ness at 0%, dthrow chaingrab twice, then jab on the third dthrow for a possible follow up uair.

It's an EASY matchup but if you break some cardinal rules you can get ***** bad (same goes for most matchups)

 

[RaphaelRobo]

The matchup feels pretty easy, now that I know how Ness' attacks work. Thanks for the advice about the throws. Is there an easy way to get out of his PK Fire if I get caught in it? Right now the only things I'm struggling with are getting caught in the fire (I successfully dodge it most of the time, though) and edgeguarding. I've almost got the hang of how he recovers, but I still miss and suicide way too often.

Also, I've created this list of reasons why Ganon is the best character in the game. I'd appreciate your feedback on it.

Spoiler

• Ganon has strong attacks, which clearly means he has muscles. Many girls find this attractive.
• Ganon has purple attacks. Purple is the color of royalty. Clearly, Ganon is a king. But he's not just any king, he's the king of Melee
• Ganon can make himself purple. These further proves that he is the king.
• Ganon's attacks produce smoke. Some people would refer to him as being "Smoking Hot".
• Ganon has a beard.
• Ganon has a purple slow motion Falcon Punch. Sure, Falcon can use the falcon punch too, but he doesn't get to feel like he's in the matrix.
• Ganon's attacks, especially the Dark Dive, create electricity. This shows that whenever he meets a girl, there's a spark between them.
• Ganon gets revenge on Link whenever he plays Melee.
• Ganon gets "*****" by Shiek. Who wouldn't want that?
• Ganon has a Wizard's Foot. That's way cooler than that Wizard's Wand Harry Potter was stuck with.
• Ganon can use the Gerudo Dragon. Six more and he gets a wish.
• Ganon has a Meteor Spike. Now we know what happened to the dinosaurs.
• Ganon can spin around when he taunts. Now we know where Link got his Spin Attack from.
• He's Ganon.

 

[Superspright]

You can PS his entire moveset except for fair. Butttt if he knows how to DJC aerials then the PS is sorta useless. Still, out space ness, watch out for fair, and chaingrab his arse.

 

[Geenareeno]

Am I correct in saying that Ganon's standing wavedash is somewhat useless?

 

[-ACE-]

Am I correct in saying that Ganon's standing wavedash is somewhat useless?

Not at all. I couldn't be more serious.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I've only just learned how to do his wavedash, but it so far it seems pretty useful. You can move a nice distance at a good speed if you angle it just right. If you get it wrong, he doesn't move far enough for it to be useful. His wavedash isn't as long as other characters, so it's more difficult to have it be useful.

I know I'm probably not in the best position to be giving advice on this, but I thought I'd put my thoughts out there anyway, so people can correct me if I'm wrong.

This leads to a question I've been meaning to ask, though. Would you typically wavedash into a jab, combo a bit, and try knock them off stage? Or you do dash into a jump to hit them with an aerial attack? Or would you do something else I'm not thinking of? I assume, if you get knocked far away, the best move is to landdash into a jab or a tilt, then proceed to combo or use aerial attacks.

 

[Superspright]

Wavelands are more effective for jab/tilt pressure. Your wavedash would end THEN your [insert option here] would begin. Waveland allows you to maintain momentum.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

jabs near the edge start so many ridiculous gimps it's great.

wavedashes allow you to move quick, keep ur jab ready, without committing to a jump. They're great.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

When attacking from the air, do you usually use the C-stick or press A and tilt?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i use the cstick.

allows for fully retreating aerials. especially fair. but runaway bairs are cool too.

 

[Linguini]

I use both pretty evenly, it's just what i'm comfortable with for a certain situation

 

[G. Vice]

I use both pretty evenly, it's just what i'm comfortable with for a certain situation

Pretty much this yeah.

If I'm really trying to squeak an uair out fast while spacing I'll lots of times use the analog to uair, but there's lots of time if I'm comboing I'll just c-stick it.

It's a very situational thing. My falcon probably uses more analog than it does c-stick.

 

[Dorsey]

Sometimes i'll use c-stick for a retreating fair or something, if I happen to think it will help in that scenario, but mostly it's cstick for uair/dair, a for fair/bair. I have always used z for aerials entering and exiting an edge cancel, esp. if a pivot is involved.. so I'll catch myself using it during other times too. for some reason z is the easiest button for me to use, l-canceling is like the a v. cstick thing for me, I'll use z or r depending on what feels right atm.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Thanks for the all the advice. It's interesting to see the different ways everyone has of doing it. I have to admit, I'd never given serious thought to using the Z Button, so I'll have to try that out now.

I heard that some pro players play against LV1 NPCs to help improve their technical skills? Is this true? It kind of makes sense how it would be better than playing against a LV9. While I can wavedash and whatnot at the moment, I have yet to integrate it into my playing. Plus, it's a lot more difficult to wavedash in the middle of a game than it is to stand still and wavedash. So, if playing against an LV1 is better for improving technical skills, I should start playing against one.

 

[-ACE-]

level 1's are good for learning combos/chaingrabs
level 3's offer a slight changeup in DI in comparison to the 1's
level 7's keep you more on your toes with perhaps the most "random" di in most situations (that i've seen)
level 9's are the most predictable and can cause you to develop bad habits moreso than others imo

Just try to take playing the cpu for what it's worth. always have a goal, some skill to hone while playing the cpu. don't just play the computer outright unless just for fun... bad habits can get picked up when you least expect it.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah, right now, you're going to be looking to find ways to incorporate wavedashing into your play. try to see hits coming and then wavedash away from them. then try to even bait computers into attacking by running at them and wavedashing back. these are the kind of tactics you will be using wavedashing for. youll want to do the same things for wavelands. jumping at them, and wavelanding back. also look to surprise the computer by jumping in place and wavelanding forward.

these things will start to instill the basis for what your wavedash and wavelands will primarily be used for. quick sudden movement to either surprise offensively, or fool defensively.

 

[-ACE-]

pivot to wavedash forward is so nasty. pivot wd forward, dashjump sh bair can beat out some really fast/aggressive approaches... it's pretty quick too, you don't have to read the approach very far in advance.

oh and level 9's can teach you about character's capabilities, like when they can nair out of a combo for example (peach, luigi). They have insane timing obv, and often throw out frame perfect moves. But still, even coming from a guy that never has anyone to play against and has taught himself almost everything he knows about this game (i've played the cpu a few times...lol), playing computers is kinda bad. Sometimes I'd rather plug in a 2nd controller and practice techskill lol.

 

[King5280]

i just dont play the computer with my main. love ****ing around with low tiers against them and such. and when i play them i try not to exploit there ******** repetitve **** and just remember to try to space like its not a cpu. also not bad for learning l cancelling in a combat setting if you dont have others to play with

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I've gotten pretty good at L Cancelling, both in practice and in combat. The only problem I have is that I forget it exists. I usually lose 1-2 stock before I realize the reason I'm so slow is I'm forgetting to L cancel.

It turns out a lot of people in my calculus class like melee/brawl, and most of them are decent at the games. While they aren't a huge challenge to play against, it's useful to get practice against other people. The very first time I played one of them I lost to him, because I was so used to NPCs. He did something, and I thought "You can't do that, a Level 9 NPC wouldn't do that".

Thanks for the advice about different cpu levels and how to incorporate wave/landdashing into my gameplay. I'll make sure I keep that in mind while I work on improving those techniques.

Continuing my stream of questions, how do most people jump? I've always used X and Y to jump. In fact, the only times I've used the control stick to jump have been by accident. However, I noticed my sister (a really bad Shiek) always uses the control stick to jump. Is there any benefit to using the control stick over the buttons, or the other way around? Is it easier to short hop using the control stick? In the end, is it just personal preference?

 

[-ACE-]

you pretty much have to go with X or Y imo, so you can easily keep your control stick free to DI, space, etc.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i use Y. as ACE said, you're gonna wanna keep the control stick free for DI in the future.

teach your sister how to grab. then teach her how to dthrow. and then teach her how to keep doing it.

she'll get better.

 

[Geenareeno]

Imo Y is far superior to X unless you're doing some raptop claw ****. Also I use the control stick to sh dl as fox since I can't do it otherwise lol.

 

[G. Vice]

Imo Y is far superior to X unless you're doing some raptop claw ****. Also I use the control stick to sh dl as fox since I can't do it otherwise lol.

I use "x" and go to B-B for my shdl

I use only "x" and "L" I never touch "R" or "y."

 

[-ACE-]

i use X. my thumb is sorta fast lol

 

[RaphaelRobo]

My sister's working on chain grabbing, but she wants to get the hang of recovery first (she pulls out the chain or throws needles a lot when she's trying to teleport). She can still consistenly take one stock off of me, which shows she's improving. Plus, a lot of the older people at my school couldn't do that well (For example, today I 4 stocked one, and 3 stocked another).

It's interesting to see that most people use Y. I figured DI would be a good reason to not use the control stick (although I'm pretty bad at DIing at the moment. I can do it sometimes, though). But I was curious if it would make it easier to short hop, since I'm pretty bad at that too. I am surprised at the number of people that use X, since I can't reach that far in the short amount of time.

This question isn't specifically Ganon related, but I noticed in a lot of videos that people pause the game and quit when they see they're going to lose their last stock? Why do they do this? I'd think it would be a lot easier to just sit there and die rather than reset. Also, is it considered impolite to taunt in a game? If I beat a Shiek, would it be considered polite?

 

[Geenareeno]

This question isn't specifically Ganon related, but I noticed in a lot of videos that people pause the game and quit when they see they're going to lose their last stock? Why do they do this? I'd think it would be a lot easier to just sit there and die rather than reset. Also, is it considered impolite to taunt in a game? If I beat a Shiek, would it be considered polite?

It's just something ppl do, idk someone else can tell you more. You still lose because you paused on your last stock. No you can taunt, unless you're friendleing someone worse than you and you taunt after every kill. It's honestly just a case by case thing, the melee community doesn't have an opinion on it. Lol if you beat a sheik it would absolutely not be considered impolite. Never ever is it impolite to win, as long as you don't be a **** and say how they're so bad because Ganon loses that matchup really badly.

 

[-ACE-]

I love taunting in tourney, lol.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

sometimes it's faster to quit out than to watch your character fly out into the background or take forever to fall to their death.

other, more rare times, people are mad and want to get the match over with and start the next one as soon as possible.

the more you play, the faster your hands will get. i felt the same way when i started. it's ridiculous how far I've come.

if you look farrrr earlier in this thread, i was asking all the questions around here LOL. ACE felt like a god back then haha.

edit: he still does, mystical man that he is.