choknater
Smash Obsessed
can u describe nair to me? do u primarily use the first hit? i don't really know the trajectories or hitboxes of either hit. ah well. i just know it's kinda fast but the hitboxes have awkward angles
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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Linguini
- Start date
Divinokage
Smash Legend
hmm.. I actually never know if it's gonna only 1 hit or 2 hits. If it 2 hits it's pretty hard to follow up I don't think you can, except if there's some sort of weird DI or it reversed. But it's extra dmg so it's ok. I usually just SH Nair directly inside the opponent though, don't try to space it, go in him. So it's SH nair FFL and then you follow up with what you want. Only use it after a throw or a move before though and at lower percentage too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azWWyxq9pzg&feature=player_detailpage#t=102s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvuwyqVGwKg&feature=player_detailpage#t=121s
Something like that.. lol. Though it's not really new Kage technology, i've been using it for a long time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azWWyxq9pzg&feature=player_detailpage#t=102s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvuwyqVGwKg&feature=player_detailpage#t=121s
Something like that.. lol. Though it's not really new Kage technology, i've been using it for a long time.
Geenareeno
Smash Lord
I'm pretty sure D-throw > Nair is legit on peach and it does quite a lot.
LoOshKiN
Smash Journeyman
d-throw = 7%
nair = 12%
nair = 12%
Palpi
Smash Hero
What do ganons think of the Peach MU...I feel like Peach wins...but I don't know why
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Umm I think these days it's Peach advantage slightly but it's not an uphill battle since Peach's punish game on stage vs Ganon I don't think is as good as the higher tiers.
You gotta play really patiently, I try to space myself to catch turnips safely and use the turnip against Peach into grounded or aerial moves depending on where she is. Like Turnip into jab is kinda good or into grab. Oh ya lots of upairs too since Peach above Ganon is really bad too for her. If you expect a dash attack, you can either shield grab or use your own dash attack to punish hers. Or powershield jab if you are feeling fancy lol. Even CC it at mid-high %. I don't mind the Peach matchup as much as a few months ago. You definitely can't play vs Peach above her, there's **** all you can do lol. Most Peach's moves out-prioritizes yours so I mean in the end it's really about a battle of spacing and patience. I mean Ganon with a turnip is pretty cool, you have cool options and you can get creative with them. And definitely never challenge a Peach with a turnip in her hands, you gotta sit back and wait for her. It's really about baiting her attacks and doing the proper punish.
You gotta play really patiently, I try to space myself to catch turnips safely and use the turnip against Peach into grounded or aerial moves depending on where she is. Like Turnip into jab is kinda good or into grab. Oh ya lots of upairs too since Peach above Ganon is really bad too for her. If you expect a dash attack, you can either shield grab or use your own dash attack to punish hers. Or powershield jab if you are feeling fancy lol. Even CC it at mid-high %. I don't mind the Peach matchup as much as a few months ago. You definitely can't play vs Peach above her, there's **** all you can do lol. Most Peach's moves out-prioritizes yours so I mean in the end it's really about a battle of spacing and patience. I mean Ganon with a turnip is pretty cool, you have cool options and you can get creative with them. And definitely never challenge a Peach with a turnip in her hands, you gotta sit back and wait for her. It's really about baiting her attacks and doing the proper punish.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
She does. Her oos options and speed coupled with a good turnip game is rough for ganon. It's close to even but she has better options at close range which puts her ahead.
SPACE aerials.
Grab her (know the best punishment from dthrow at any percent).
Learn how to properly edgeguard her.
Realize the capabilities of dsmash and it's limitations. If they are using the dsmash ko you/send you offstage, cc the first hit and survival di the second to live.
SPACE aerials.
Grab her (know the best punishment from dthrow at any percent).
Learn how to properly edgeguard her.
Realize the capabilities of dsmash and it's limitations. If they are using the dsmash ko you/send you offstage, cc the first hit and survival di the second to live.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Nair on shield is tough to punish because she's at frame advantage I'm pretty sure.. she can either grab you, jab, dsmash or wtv. So just roll away from Nair or wd OOS.. maybe idk.. lol. And I mean when they edgeguard Ganon, I don't think I've ever seen a dsmash edgeguard at all anymore.. They just throw turnips at Ganon off-stage into nair or fair and you can't do **** lol. I learned to catch turnips off-stage to maybe have a chance to get back but it's still gay to try to get back on stage, it usually will never happen. lol. That's also obviously something that hurts Ganon too.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Yeah, I meant dsmash onstage though. Dsmash at the ledge is actually petty legit, ganon only has one option if they time the dsmash correctly.
Geenareeno
Smash Lord
A couple pages back ace pointed out that if they throw turnips at you while you're recovering you can up air the turnip then up-b away from the stage, into it; giving you more height/distance. It's super legit but a little hard to get the right angle.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Ahh yep that's another alternative for sure, but you gotta be close to the edge in order for that to work.
spider_sense
Smash Champion
I actually feel the match-up is even. I'd say closer than 45-55, but it's still in Peach's favor. Just have to learn how to handle turnips, edge guarding and spacing. Make sure that you learn when it's ok and not ok for to actively engage on her, because nairs are obscenely broken in this MU.
Palpi
Smash Hero
I have been dabbling with peach lately, and I feel like it's hard for Ganon to get momentum against peach.
Cc'ing the first 2 hits of dsmash to get sent on stage is really good, I told my friend to do that today, since I've been getting him with that lately.
Cc'ing the first 2 hits of dsmash to get sent on stage is really good, I told my friend to do that today, since I've been getting him with that lately.
spider_sense
Smash Champion
Eh it depends, both characters can murk each other pretty hard. The only time it becomes a problem is once she gets in, she can wreak havoc. Space out your fairs like a boss. Retreating bairs and f-tilt to keep her at bay. Once you grab her make sure she gets punished. And don't try to contest her if she's on a platform and you're below it, you'll get murked with dsmash. However, if you can bait it you can **** her up so bad.I have been dabbling with peach lately, and I feel like it's hard for Ganon to get momentum against peach.
Cc'ing the first 2 hits of dsmash to get sent on stage is really good, I told my friend to do that today, since I've been getting him with that lately.
LoOshKiN
Smash Journeyman
I'm pretty sure if Peach makes it to edge Ganon's d-smash covers Peach's get-up, get-up attack, and roll from edge
Peach vs Ganon is like 60-40 peach, maybe like Spidey said and 55-45. It's definitely not the end of all matchups for Ganon but her amazing edgeguard game makes recovery for ganon extremely hard.
When I played DoH, his use of turnips as well as float canceled dair/nair over the ledge as well as the traditional dsmash, all forces Ganon to need to be able to ledge tech. Being able to do this is extremely important, as many of the licks you can get off a ledge tech(bair) can be lethal blows to peach since she's fairly light. Besides teching, patience is the only other advice I could think to give in the matchup.
When I played DoH, his use of turnips as well as float canceled dair/nair over the ledge as well as the traditional dsmash, all forces Ganon to need to be able to ledge tech. Being able to do this is extremely important, as many of the licks you can get off a ledge tech(bair) can be lethal blows to peach since she's fairly light. Besides teching, patience is the only other advice I could think to give in the matchup.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Oh no it's not as hard as Falcon/Ganon.. it can't be 60-40... def 55-45.
I thought falcon was a little higher than that. Yeah it's definitely not as tough as falcon. I don't know the matchup listings, so yeah whatever falcons is, it's minus like 5 off that.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
It's comparable in difficulty to the falcon matchup. Falcon is harder but not by a landslide imo.
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
curling FH fairs over her turnip approach is fun. the end of the fair hitbox is sort of under ganon, so if she approaches with a turnip > fair, you can curl it in there between. sooo cool.
Ok, so awhile ago I heard about this "falcon nair destroys ganon" thing, and I always tended to agree. And don't get me wrong, it's an amazing move, and still works wonders on ganon. But then I heard talk of ganon nair vs falcon nair. I was skeptical at first, but I tried it vs a really solid falcon main here.
It does trade, and that leaves ganon doing more damage than falcon. So in a sense it can be good. But this is ONLY in circumstances where you know that CF's nair is coming, and you happen to be facing him, close distance, with no chance of retreating a bair. Bair is better if you can get it out, but ganon's nair can indeed force falcon to change his spaced nair spam approach.
Try it out guys. Like I said, it doesn't revolutionize the matchup, but it does give ganon a way to force falcon to relent and change things up. Then this gives us an opportunity to use our other tools in the matchup, and we don't just get nair > grab > techchased every stock. It's still gonna happen granted, but this gives us a small tool to use occasionally.
Hopefully this helps a little bit for us ganon mains in a really tough matchup.
It does trade, and that leaves ganon doing more damage than falcon. So in a sense it can be good. But this is ONLY in circumstances where you know that CF's nair is coming, and you happen to be facing him, close distance, with no chance of retreating a bair. Bair is better if you can get it out, but ganon's nair can indeed force falcon to change his spaced nair spam approach.
Try it out guys. Like I said, it doesn't revolutionize the matchup, but it does give ganon a way to force falcon to relent and change things up. Then this gives us an opportunity to use our other tools in the matchup, and we don't just get nair > grab > techchased every stock. It's still gonna happen granted, but this gives us a small tool to use occasionally.
Hopefully this helps a little bit for us ganon mains in a really tough matchup.
HoChiMinhTrail
Smash Master
Kage and G Vice ****ed me up in this kiddy game
that is all
that is all
Linguini
Smash Master
D tilt is mad good. I've been using that for a while; especially vs fox, falco, marth and other floaties.....actually it's just good against everyone lol.
Dthrow nair is alright vs marth and peach(at extremely low percents).While useful, the move isn't that great and the hitbox proves that. And it works randomly against falcon but is nothing to depend on. Bair does beat nair when you space it kage.
Peach vs ganon is like 55-45, and would be even if her edgeguarding wasn't so free vs ganon. Her broken nair oos also helps it tip a little towards peach.
Grabbing her fc nairs actually works if you ASDI/ and or cc. Rolling away is a pretty good option in this mu because her moves have a lot of stun but she doesn't have the speed to rush down your roll if it is out of her reach.
Bair is godsend, especially mixing them up with: full jump bair, sh bair to bair, double jump bair,etc.and one of my recent experiments is cool too; the full jump bair to uair.
There's other stuff but it's pretty much common knowledge for ganons lol
I've been testing out some 2012 *****. jason can speak for me, he's experienced it....ya'll *****s ain't seen this before
btw kage jason is my apprentice and he's going to beat you DOWN
LOL
Dthrow nair is alright vs marth and peach(at extremely low percents).While useful, the move isn't that great and the hitbox proves that. And it works randomly against falcon but is nothing to depend on. Bair does beat nair when you space it kage.
Peach vs ganon is like 55-45, and would be even if her edgeguarding wasn't so free vs ganon. Her broken nair oos also helps it tip a little towards peach.
Grabbing her fc nairs actually works if you ASDI/ and or cc. Rolling away is a pretty good option in this mu because her moves have a lot of stun but she doesn't have the speed to rush down your roll if it is out of her reach.
Bair is godsend, especially mixing them up with: full jump bair, sh bair to bair, double jump bair,etc.and one of my recent experiments is cool too; the full jump bair to uair.
There's other stuff but it's pretty much common knowledge for ganons lol
I've been testing out some 2012 *****. jason can speak for me, he's experienced it....ya'll *****s ain't seen this before
btw kage jason is my apprentice and he's going to beat you DOWN
LOL
Divinokage
Smash Legend
LOL, well if the master couldn't defeat me, what hope does an apprentice have? =P
I actually like Nair vs fast fallers too because it's garanteed follow up, I used it vs Kels for a 0-death read at some point I remember, it was sick. lol. And i mean 2 hits from Ganon is like.. the guy will most def be off-stage in a ****ty position lol.
I actually like Nair vs fast fallers too because it's garanteed follow up, I used it vs Kels for a 0-death read at some point I remember, it was sick. lol. And i mean 2 hits from Ganon is like.. the guy will most def be off-stage in a ****ty position lol.
Linguini
Smash Master
nah kage, that was 2 years ago when I was trash at ganon ditts. ***** has changed........you're gonna get scraped......by both of us lol
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Ya well G.Vice is my apprentice, our spirits will conquer all!!!
Winston
Smash Master
Can someone explain the spacing/zoning for ganon vs. a dashdancing fox? The basics, like, what the standard rock-paper-scissors game is in the neutral situation, and how to position yourself for each of the options.
Also, if you fair in place and it doesn't hit him, do you have time to do anything besides jab or shield if he approaches with an aerial?
Also, if you fair in place and it doesn't hit him, do you have time to do anything besides jab or shield if he approaches with an aerial?
Doesn't an instant sh uair work better for this purpose? or is the distance you're talking about too close for that?
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Oh, I'd take them odds hands down! Can't handle me and Kage's team combos babyGimme chaddd or renth and I'll mm either of those teams! :>
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Zane, you can't do team combos while you're getting fair'd.
duh.
duh.
Son, I'll pull this on you on one side of dreamland, while kage polishes off chaddd/renth on the other.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7tHO6vtxZ0&feature=channel_video_title
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
me and jim vs all who oppose us.
DON'T AFRAID OF ANYTHING.
DON'T AFRAID OF ANYTHING.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Your stocks are belong to us.
Palpi
Smash Hero
Gvice, I think he jumped into that bair in your combo.
He most certainly did. In all honestly, that bair was supposed to be an uair that caught his double, but when the reverse bair came out, I just ran with it.Gvice, I think he jumped into that bair in your combo.
LOL dtilt is so good
Deer Dance
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2011
- Messages
- 1
Whats the best way to deal with a really good link?
whenever i try to aerial him, he either gets me with his uair or rained on by bombs, then mabye im just bad at dodging, but his arrows and boomerang really annoy me and allow him to begin a combo on me
whenever i try to aerial him, he either gets me with his uair or rained on by bombs, then mabye im just bad at dodging, but his arrows and boomerang really annoy me and allow him to begin a combo on me
LOL sounds like you don't even know how to use your sword. Tell me you know how to take it out... with a little skill you could use your sword to avoid all that annoying Link stuff.