How to melee: S.D's video analysis and discussion thread - POST QUESTIONS!

[S.D]

Yeah I was hoping for a sticky, @Shaya

 

[Redact]

good sticky for good man s.d

 

[S.D]

Yeah now I just gotta make some more vids. Might post some hypothetical questions with the next batch to generate discussion.

 

[woodsta]

Please do, Sam

 

[Sieg]

Hey Sam,

I was curious, what does your practice routine entail, if you have one? Do you have a set time to play? Do you focus on anything in particular when you do practice, or do you just kind of pick something up when you do want to prac?

Do you find you practice more by yourself or do you practice with partners?

 

[S.D]

Hey Sam,

I was curious, what does your practice routine entail, if you have one? Do you have a set time to play? Do you focus on anything in particular when you do practice, or do you just kind of pick something up when you do want to prac?

Do you find you practice more by yourself or do you practice with partners?

Thanks for your question Sieg.

I get asked this a lot and most people are surprised that I don't really practice anymore, maybe once a month (if that) or a couple of times in a week before a tournament to brush out the cobwebs. Even before SSV I planned to train daily but didn't pick up a controller lol.

Generally I will only practice when there is a new piece of tech skill or technology that comes to my attention, for instance when I first saw Hax's utility with invincible fox ledge dashes I spent a lot of time on the ledge at Hyrule castle doing it over and over again. With something this specific I'll give myself challenges to complete - such as 20 perfect ledge dashes in a row from firefox stall, then 20 from a side b illusion to familiarise myself with different timings.

I tend to find once a skill is embedded in muscle memory I no longer need to drill it in down the track.

Recently when I do train (since I got the 20xx hack pack) there are specific situations and things I try to polish up on, such as up throw nairing C Falcon with different DIs at low percent to get as close to frame perfect as possible. If there's not something specifically I want to practice I'll experiment with new combos or just rag doll the CPU for a while and practice skills that need polishing between stocks (like shield dropping which I still suck at).

20xx has been great as it now allows you to practice reactionary combos to random DI and tech chasing, which has been refreshing, and I would recommend that to anyone, and gives the option to practice against infinite shields which is super useful as well.

Your last question is probably the most relevant, as if I have a training partner I will literally not stop playing (probably because it's so rare I get the chance to play anyone) until politely asked to leave.

Playing with other people is the best and most practical way to practice and improve, and the best advice I can give is DON'T ALWAYS PLAY TO WIN IN FRIENDLIES. Playing with someone is the opportunity to test out individual components of your game to trial and error new things. For instance if you focus specifically on incorporating something into your game (maybe combo DI) and get 4 stocked, who cares, it will benefit you in your overall gameplay. When playing with people pick a facet to focus on and try to improve in specific areas slowly, rather than all areas at once.

 

[Sieg]

Ta Sam, thanks.

Secondary question, have you ever felt your passion for the game wane at any point?

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

I think to keep an interest in anything you need to engage in its community. I find the more I talk to others smashers about smash e.g strats, mind sets, matchups etc it fuels the desire to want to play and improve... or at least help others improve lel.

 

[S.D]

Ta Sam, thanks.

Secondary question, have you ever felt your passion for the game wane at any point?

I seem to remember a point around 2011??? I thought I was pretty much done with smash for whatever reason, but then I was sponsored to go to a few tournaments and didn't do so well which kind of motivated me to keep going.
Also when I was living in regional queensland and it was hard to attend things I was in semi-retirement purely because of geography, but luckily I found Spup and was able to play casually again.
I think the times that my interest waned was when I was winning without being challenged too much and as such not putting anything into improving. Having now been to the US twice and seeing how the metagame continues to be pushed further and further, my enthusiasm is as high as it's ever been. Also the local talent continues to improve which keeps me very much engaged.
At the end of the day the community is too familiar for me to ever want to leave, which is probably the main reason we all hang around.

 

[Sieg]

Yeah, I feel like the community for this game is amazing, however I just can't seem to find a way to get back into the game anymore. I'm not sure why, because there are plenty of meets going on around here, the passion is just gone yknow?

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

Don't worry soooog, my passion for competing/practicing is also loooong gone. I only play because dem qld peeps are juz so kewl and seksushi. Also imparting wisdom so qld doesn't fall into smash obscurity.

 

[S.D]

I feel like these days there is much less need to actually play the game to have a role in the community. There is such a diverse range of ways to contribute and have a presence that if you don't want to compete you don't have to, there's always another way to make an impact and enjoy it all the same .

 

[woodsta]

'luckily I found Spup' we're all very glad this happened (´◔ ‿ゝ◔`)

Also it's pretty insane that the game just doesn't stop being pushed. I just watched the most recent SSS and the level that S2J and lucky played is just ****ing mindblowing. This game still has many years of development imo

 

[Hobs_]

Playing with other people is the best and most practical way to practice and improve, and the best advice I can give is DON'T ALWAYS PLAY TO WIN IN FRIENDLIES. Playing with someone is the opportunity to test out individual components of your game to trial and error new things. For instance if you focus specifically on incorporating something into your game (maybe combo DI) and get 4 stocked, who cares, it will benefit you in your overall gameplay. When playing with people pick a facet to focus on and try to improve in specific areas slowly, rather than all areas at once.

This was an eye-opener for me, SD. Thanks for that. Sometimes I do worry that if I go into a friendly with an idea to work on something specific my opponent might get the impression that I'm sandbagging or being disrespectful. It's a balancing act I suppose.

 

[S.D]

This was an eye-opener for me, SD. Thanks for that. Sometimes I do worry that if I go into a friendly with an idea to work on something specific my opponent might get the impression that I'm sandbagging or being disrespectful. It's a balancing act I suppose.

People have no right to expect anything of anyone in friendly play. If they want seriouslies they can always ask for a money match.

 

[JKTS]

Hey Sam, can you talk a bit about your mind set before and during a set (that you can't just win on auto pilot) as in, do you focus on trying to predict their moves or do you try and not think too much and just be reactionary, things like that. Also how that changes with character/stage changes.

EDIT: Or anyone else actually, would be interesting to see how different people approach this.

 

[PrettyCoolGuy]

Should we discuss the content of the videos here or on facebook?
Here definitely is better for posterity but facebook mucho easier.

Sam, how's the queue looking? Anyone lined up next yet?

 

[Jamwa]

Jamwa vs S.D. @ Phils crew battles pls

 

[S.D]

Should we discuss the content of the videos here or on facebook?
Here definitely is better for posterity but facebook mucho easier.

Sam, how's the queue looking? Anyone lined up next yet?

I think discussion here is better.

I'm planning to do spup splice but aside from that no requests pending. I might just start doing some random matches I find interesting like moxie forte or some such.

Hey Sam, can you talk a bit about your mind set before and during a set (that you can't just win on auto pilot) as in, do you focus on trying to predict their moves or do you try and not think too much and just be reactionary, things like that. Also how that changes with character/stage changes.

EDIT: Or anyone else actually, would be interesting to see how different people approach this.

Sorry for the late response to this Jesse.

Ahead of a set against a tough player I'll really only focus on 1-3 things that I need to consciously be aware of. Usually that's based on history against the player or something in the MU I don't do well without reminding myself of it. Any more than a couple of things and it's too much to think about - the rest is already ingrained in my subconscious. This is where experience is so important, the more you play and the more situations you see again and again the less thought and energy they require from you each time. Certain things are compartmentalised away in your mind - it's a shortcut the brain takes to preserve energy and simplify things in everyday life so you're left to focus on the bigger picture.

During a set I generally won't think too much, I just let instinct take over for the most part. I will note things the other player is doing and keep track of my decisions to condition certain responses, ie if I've done the same thing a few times in that spot it's time to throw in the mixups. Overall though I don't think about too much, just try to rectify mistakes, like if I get spotdodge shined to be more vigilant. As for prediction you can have a fair idea what your opponents goals are based on percentage and positioning. If I'm low percent as a spacie against marth his goal is to grab me, so I will rarely shield and try to keep moving. WHen I'm higher percent and grab won't lead into much for him I can be more liberal with my shield if need be knowing the punish won;t be as hard. Smash is really about knowing your opponents goals and denying them to him/her. Know what the opposing characters goals/options are and ensure you don't allow them.

@ Jamwa Ness 2g I got rekt.

 

[PrettyCoolGuy]

That Grim v Oli game was kinda dumb, Grim defs deserved to get bopped.

If you find it interesting enough, I'd appreciate it if you looked at me vs Seb. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm-XaDRohz4
I've had a bit of a look through, do you want any of my thoughts on it before you get into it?

@ JKTS I think Sam has a pretty good attitude to approaching sets. I definitely need to implement the things to focus on. For me it's all about striking the balance of using your conscious mind to make sure your habits don't get you destroyed while using your subconscious to get your best play. Under thinking and over thinking both make it hard to play well

 

[Bu$]

That Grim v Oli game was kinda dumb, Grim defs deserved to get bopped.

If you find it interesting enough, I'd appreciate it if you looked at me vs Seb. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm-XaDRohz4
I've had a bit of a look through, do you want any of my thoughts on it before you get into it?

@ JKTS I think Sam has a pretty good attitude to approaching sets. I definitely need to implement the things to focus on. For me it's all about striking the balance of using your conscious mind to make sure your habits don't get you destroyed while using your subconscious to get your best play. Under thinking and over thinking both make it hard to play well

You've had enough critique you greedy guts.

 

[Splice]

You've had enough critique you greedy guts.

But he's just doing so much stuff wrong!!

 

[PrettyCoolGuy]

You've had enough critique you greedy guts.

No one else is asking bruh

 

[Meredy]

Next tournament I'ma try to get on a recording setup so Sam can give me attention have more material.

 

[Bu$]

Maybe do a me vs codie set? idk which one would be better although i know i played far better in the first one.

 

[S.D]

giz link m9

 

[Bu$]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dUpeWARXK4&list=UUb1s2Nj0UpZ1MoKdC8VEZ-w

This one makes me sad but the last one is kinda old.

 

[SummonerAU]

Could you do this recent set between zxv and ted? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmLZ9f0hJS0

 

[S.D]

Which side do you want it from Tom? Anything specific you're looking for in it?

 

[SummonerAU]

I'd like it from zxv's side, just because I play sheik these days. Not really after anything specifically, I'm just interested in what you'd say about the set.

 

[Bu$]

Break ma hart </3

 

[S.D]

Huhngh? I'm still doin yurs too m8

 

[Bu$]

Huhngh? I'm still doin yurs too m8

Oh cool, you didn't reply or anything so i thought i got dogged lel me bell.

 

[smopup]

S.D pls help

 

[S.D]

LOLLLLL

I will get back into these very soon, probably this week.

Starting with Spup v Splice? Or would you prefer this trainwreck??

Bus v Codie on the cards, then maybe some random stuff i found interesting at Miles House.

 

[smopup]

LOLLLLL

I will get back into these very soon, probably this week.

Starting with Spup v Splice? Or would you prefer this trainwreck??

I don't know if there's much to say about the Redact set since it was utter destruction, but I'd love to hear your take on it anyway. I think you've already helped me out a lot vs Splice just from talking to you about it, so perhaps you'd rather look at something else? Provided you haven't put time into it already.

 

[Aussierob123]

the most glaring problem with your play in that set spup is it seems like your mentality was this:
"ok, no matter what is happening this set, I MUST initiate with dair shine jab". aside from a couple of shield grabs, I counted one time you grabbed as a set up. Your insisting on aeral approach led to a thousand crouch-cancel shines from redact.

Edit: I even countered more times when you had a perfect opportunity to shield grab and you still opted to SH out of shield and dair.

When you got a hit that wasn't crouch cancelled you did well because that's what you do. You just need to work on your initiation because that set you weren't getting any.

 

[S.D]

the most glaring problem with your play in that set spup is it seems like your mentality was this:
"ok, no matter what is happening this set, I MUST initiate with dair shine jab". aside from a couple of shield grabs, I counted one time you grabbed as a set up. Your insisting on aeral approach led to a thousand crouch-cancel shines from redact.

Edit: I even countered more times when you had a perfect opportunity to shield grab and you still opted to SH out of shield and dair.

When you got a hit that wasn't crouch cancelled you did well because that's what you do. You just need to work on your initiation because that set you weren't getting any.

Rob I agree with you that the drillshine approaches were at times a little forced, but in this MU against this particular player it is BY FAR the best approach. It CANNOT be crouch cancelled if done correctly, and it can't be spotdodged if you don't fast fall it - giving amazing coverage against all of Falco's defensive tools.

Yes grabs lead to A LOT for Fox in the MU but it is INCREDIBLY risky to attempt to grab Falco unless you are 1000% sure that it will connect (even Mango says his commandment in this MU is thou shalt not grab). So much of Falco's defence beats grab, even shine outprioritises Fox grabbing and the timing to get it is super tight vs wakeup Falco options.

Maybe drillgrabbing (which is nearly guaranteed) could be a good compromise, but the bigger issue was move placement moreso than selection.

 

[Redact]

Ragainst this particular player

Krouch Kancel King

KKK

Come at meeeeee

I'm a bad person, I play falco like it's peach with a shine instead of downsmash

 

[PrettyCoolGuy]

Shine is so good for cc, frame one baby!