How many Kirby fighters do you think we should have?

[PK_Fire_94]

1. Kirby
2. Meta Knight
3. DDD
4. Bandanna Dee
5. Dark Matter Swordsman - ok this guy sounds weird but he’s a cool sword character and would be a lot easier to put in the game than a lot of the other dark matter characters. Also there needs to be a Kirby villain because DDD and Metaknight aren’t really bad guys

 

[Dee Dude]

Just Bandana Dee.

 

[Superragnol29]

I think 4 is enough for this franchise we should have the 4 main characters : Kirby,Meta Knight, King Dee Dee Dee, Bandana Waddle Dee.
But still fire emblem having 7 characters is stupid! So sprinkling a few more characters would be cool

 

[Brindor]

3's enough, I know he has his fair share of supporters on and off this site but I've never cared much for Bandana Waddle Dee at all in the slightest.
Like I wouldn't get angry or annoyed if he was added into Smash, but If you put a gun to my head and said Dee or Dixie Kong (DK has 3 reps too) as a newcomer in Smash or Dee or Krystal (Starfox also has 3 reps) I would pick those two over Dee anytime.

 

[THE SLOTH]

I'd prefer two more to the already existing three, but I'll take one modern Kirby rep at the very least. In an ideal world, we get the fan favorite Bandana Dee (I'd take other Kirby reps over him but a Kirby rep's a Kirby rep), and one character, any character that debuted after Sakurai left the series to HAL. I'm not picky who, it's just a shame how only a fraction of Kirby's franchise is represented in any meaningful way.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I think 4 is enough for this franchise we should have the 4 main characters : Kirby,Meta Knight, King Dee Dee Dee, Bandana Waddle Dee.
But still fire emblem having 7 characters is stupid! So sprinkling a few more characters would be cool

I wouldn't jump to say it's stupid, I'd say undeserved is a more fitting adjective.

While I wouldn't mind having 7 Kirby fighters the logic behind a lot of these arguments is "well if Mario/Pokemon/FE can have so many fighters surely Zelda/Kirby/DK can too!" They really went above and beyond with those three and that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it shouldn't be the only reason why another series should have more fighters as well.

In my opening post I proposed 4 Kirby newcomers, each with their own unique movesets and representing different sections of the fanbase as well as different eras of the games' history. They could go above and beyond with Kitby just like they did with the other three aforementioned series.

 

[Gimj]

Trash thread because nobody except me likes my dude Buggzy.



In all seriousness, Kirby is fine where it is with Bandana Dee being the only further option given that he is moving more into the limelight. So, 4.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Trash thread because nobody except me likes my dude Buggzy.

Actually, Bugzzy would be my choice for a fifth rep. First bug-based fighter, let's go!

 

[Xelrog]

Mario and Pokemon are massively larger series than Kirby, and FE doesn't need seven. FE is the only series in the first-party roster that's really out of whack in terms of representation to size, as is commonly discussed in the Smash community.

 

[Gimj]

Trash thread because nobody except me likes my dude Buggzy.



In all seriousness, Kirby is fine where it is with Bandana Dee being the only further option given that he is moving more into the limelight. So, 4.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Trash thread because nobody except me likes my dude Buggzy.



In all seriousness, Kirby is fine where it is with Bandana Dee being the only further option given that he is moving more into the limelight. So, 4.

Bugzy would be a pretty hype fighter IMO. An incineroar-style grappler using suplex abilities, except with an actual reovery thanks to his wings.

 

[THE SLOTH]

Trash thread because nobody except me likes my dude Buggzy.



In all seriousness, Kirby is fine where it is with Bandana Dee being the only further option given that he is moving more into the limelight. So, 4.

As a big fan of the Suplex ability, it being one of my favorite abilities to play with in the Kirby series period, I'd be totally down for Buggzy. Buuuut, he'd be more likely as an Assist Trophy than anything, unfortunately.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Dee and Adeleine in an ideal roster.
But there are probably a dozen 1st party characters I'd rather have before another Kirby rep honestly. I understand he has a lot of supporters and I wouldn't be actively against Dee, but he's certainly not very high up on my priority list.

 

[TheCJBrine]

-Kirby
-King Dedede
-Meta Knight
-Bandana Dee
-Gooey
-Adeleine
-Dark Matter
-Marx

 

[Gyrom8]

Four sounds about right

 

[Foxy Alopex]

Besides Kirby, Meta Knight and King DDD I personally want Daroach or Bandana Waddle Dee

 

[PhantomShab]

I said it before and I'll say it again, if Fire Emblem can have 7 characters then there's no reason why Kirby can't have a couple more.

Bandana Dee and Adeleine (with Ribbon too if it's preferred) would give the modern and Dark Matter games some more love in Smash Bros.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Guys I get it but Fire Emblem's inflated size shouldn't be the ONLY status quo for having more Kirby newcomers.

It's not a bad thing that people bring it up but there should be other reasons too. Like representing different parts of the series' history for the fans.

I think the series should have at minimum Bandana Dee to represent modern Kirby, Adeline (and ribbon like Rosaluma) to represent the Dark Matter Trilogy, and at least one villain--not a comic villain or half villain like Dedede or Meta Knight, but a full blown villain.

 

[Quillion]

I just want to plug this thread again.

Does it really matter "how many" in the end? What if Kirby imitates Fire Emblem and suddenly loads up on echoes and semi-echoes just to have "more"? Could you imagine Kirby suddenly getting Dark Meta Knight, Galacta Knight, and Morpho Knight just to get even?

Start asking yourselves "how well can new characters add facets of the Kirby franchise" instead of "how much do we need".

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I just want to plug this thread again.

Does it really matter "how many" in the end? What if Kirby imitates Fire Emblem and suddenly loads up on echoes and semi-echoes just to have "more"? Could you imagine Kirby suddenly getting Dark Meta Knight, Galacta Knight, and Morpho Knight just to get even?

Start asking yourselves "how well can new characters add facets of the Kirby franchise" instead of "how much do we need".

The deal is that it's really hard for a significant fraction of the franchise to get represented with only three fighters when most of the work put into them (and Kirby in Smash as a whole) is focused on Super Star and games before.

If we got between 2 and 4 newcomers but they revamped movesets to reflect Modern Kirby that would speak millions.

And besides as far as I know Fire Emblem is based around 3 primary weapon types and magic so it's definitely much easier for them to create unique movesets.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Kirby get tons of attention pretty well everywhere in the game, so I just don't think we need several newcomers. The series has 3 fighters, 6 stages, 8 items, 3 assist trophies, 38 music tracks, one boss (which is a big deal given there's only 6 unique bosses from other series), and like 50+ Spirits. It has lots of great representation in other places beyond playable fighters, but as usual people become too focused in on fighters above all else.

Honestly, just put Bandanna Dee in for the fans since Nintendo is continuing to push him and it will largely be in a great place content wise. That's as many non-Echo, fully unique characters as Fire Emblem has anyway for those complaining about Fire Emblem. I like other Kirby fighters, but beyond Bandanna Dee I don't see anyone that stands out enough to warrant inclusion beyond just being the typical, "unique fighter that someone has interest in." Nothing wrong with that status, but I don't see any holes in representation beyond him.

And, sure, if we've got the resources, go for like Marx and Adeleine (especially Marx, I honestly much prefer him to Dee by a wide margin), but that's not an entirely realistic scenario either.

 

[Sebas22]

What if Kirby imitates Fire Emblem and suddenly loads up on echoes and semi-echoes just to have "more"?.

Literally impossible. Marx, Adeleine, Bandanna Dee, Dark Matter. Pure original characters. The only one that could be an echo/semi-echo is Gooey (Kirby).
What about the other Knights? They're already in as alt skins for Meta Knight. (Except Morpho Knight)

Kirby get tons of attention pretty well everywhere in the game, so I just don't think we need several newcomers. The series has 3 fighters, 6 stages, 8 items, 3 assist trophies, 38 music tracks, one boss (which is a big deal given there's only 6 unique bosses from other series), and like 50+ Spirits. It has lots of great representation in other places beyond playable fighters, but as usual people become too focused in on fighters above all else.

This has been pointed out before, but I'll repeat it. The problem with the Kirby representation in Smash is the lack of acknowledgement of the latest games.
3 Fighters? Yes, based on games before the SNES! 6 Stages? Yes, based on games before the N64!! The music at first looks well distributed, but If you've played through most Kirby games, you'll see they picked some questionable choices for the latest games. Almost like they just slapped whatever they found first and called it a day.

In the end, you're right. We just don't need several newcomers. We need more of everything!

 

[Xelrog]

Literally impossible. Marx, Adeleine, Bandanna Dee, Dark Matter. Pure original characters. The only one that could be an echo/semi-echo is Gooey (Kirby).
What about the other Knights? They're already in as alt skins for Meta Knight. (Except Morpho Knight)

So were other characters who are now echoes, like Dark Samus.

 

[culumon]

Went with seven like a maverick.

Bandana Dee, Marx, Magolor and Adeleine & Ribbon would all own.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I like other Kirby fighters, but beyond Bandanna Dee I don't see anyone that stands out enough to warrant inclusion beyond just being the typical, "unique fighter that someone has interest in." Nothing wrong with that status, but I don't see any holes in representation beyond him.

I'll say this again, the appeal to a Kirby newcomer comes waaaaay less than simply the idea of having a unique moveset or more recognition than the idea of having more branches of the series represented.

Kirby as a whole has gone through several different phases of development with many different directors and styles of direction. The Dark Matter Trilogy was crafted much differently than Planet Robobot or Star Allies. You can see the differences just by watching Youtube gameplay.

Bandana Dee's appeal comes from representing modern Kirby. Adeline comes form the Dark Matter Trilogy/Kirby 64. Marx is without a doubt the most famous Kirby villain that's not in Smash. Magolor was the figurehead of Kirby's big comeback on the Wii (essentially the Fire Emblem Awakening of Kirby). The Dark Matter Swordsman was one of the first villains in the game. Susue, Taranza, etc. were all important characters from largely successful modern Kirby games.

The appeal to simply having a newcomer for the sake of it is infinitesimal when it comes to representing the series' history. It comes more from a perspective of a long time Kirby fan. People who aren't as in to the series wouldn't see the appeal as much.

On your point about the series having lots of content beyond fighters, that's true. There is a fair amount of non fighter Kirby content in Smash. That's why this thread was primarily dedicated towards the discussion of fighters. But the problem is that all of the stages, the majority of the spirits, almost all of the new remixes and a fair amount of the music selection in general all come from titles that predate even the Wii era--with a significant portion of those predating even the N64. In a sense it's in a similar boat to Fire Emblem fans complaining about all of the fighters using swords--most of the Kirby content in Smash is old. Things we've seen before. New Kirby content has undeniably held a low priority when making new Smash games. That's why there's such an outcry for them to recognize modern Kirby more.

So were other characters who are now echoes, like Dark Samus.

To be fair Dark Samus easily could have had a unique moveset. Her (Its?) assist trophy showed off way more attacks than she does now. It was most likely a lack of assets and priority that relegated her to a clone.

 

[Quillion]

Literally impossible. Marx, Adeleine, Bandanna Dee, Dark Matter. Pure original characters. The only one that could be an echo/semi-echo is Gooey (Kirby).
What about the other Knights? They're already in as alt skins for Meta Knight. (Except Morpho Knight)

I'm speaking hypothetically. What if the other Knights were promoted to echoes/semi-echoes rather than alts? Would you do that just to "get even" with Fire Emblem? Think about that.
----
I definitely think Bandana Dee is the most realistic pick for being the fourth wheel of the core Kirby cast. That said, it's kinda tragic how he is one of the cases where being interesting and being relevant are at odds with one another.

You can't really deny that if you put Bandana Dee next to a lot of the newer characters, even just first party alone, he wouldn't really stick out too much other than "uses a spear". He's got nothing weird like Inklings' Ink, Villager's pocket, or Little Mac's KO meter, and that's just the first party characters.

On the other hand, you have characters like Marx and Adeline who have much cooler and unique abilities, but they don't have the relevance to really represent Kirby all too well. It runs into the same problem as to why Midna, Ghirahim, and Skull Kid have been passed over: they only represent one game and don't do a good job of being a whole-series icon.

But at least people do like Bandana Dee as he does add to Kirby's quality of representation.

 

[Xelrog]

To be fair Dark Samus easily could have had a unique moveset. Her (Its?) assist trophy showed off way more attacks than she does now. It was most likely a lack of assets and priority that relegated her to a clone.

Anyone CAN have a unique moveset. If Dark Meta Knight were added, or Galacta Knight, they wouldn't.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

This has been pointed out before, but I'll repeat it. The problem with the Kirby representation in Smash is the lack of acknowledgement of the latest games.
3 Fighters? Yes, based on games before the SNES! 6 Stages? Yes, based on games before the N64!! The music at first looks well distributed, but If you've played through most Kirby games, you'll see they picked some questionable choices for the latest games. Almost like they just slapped whatever they found first and called it a day.

In the end, you're right. We just don't need several newcomers. We need more of everything!

And to be rather blunt, so? I admit it's a little ridiculous we haven't seen Bandanna Dee and maybe like a single newer stage... but that's also just how Smash works overall. Not every series is going to get perfect representation or even necessarily "good" representation. Donkey Kong can't escape the jungle for his grand total of three stages in Ultimate and has no content post DK64 in Ultimate right now. Fire Emblem doesn't have the weapon triangle and skips an entire decade of games between Marth's debut and Roy's. There's virtually no Wario Land content in the game to go along with Wario. Mother doesn't touch the first game in the series. Even Pokemon doesn't touch Generation 3 at all, has no fighter for Gen 5, and leans quite heavily on starters. Mario's missing Toad. It's just a reality of making a game like Smash Bros., you can't give everything perfect or even necessarily ideal representation.

That's why Dee basically solves the problem of no newer content since he'll act as a representative for the newer era and that's all Kirby really "needs" (Need in the sense of to make the representation more balanced and overall appropriate for the main characters of the series).

I'll say this again, the appeal to a Kirby newcomer comes waaaaay less than simply the idea of having a unique moveset or more recognition than the idea of having more branches of the series represented.

Kirby as a whole has gone through several different phases of development with many different directors and styles of direction. The Dark Matter Trilogy was crafted much differently than Planet Robobot or Star Allies. You can see the differences just by watching Youtube gameplay.

Bandana Dee's appeal comes from representing modern Kirby. Adeline comes form the Dark Matter Trilogy/Kirby 64. Marx is without a doubt the most famous Kirby villain that's not in Smash. Magolor was the figurehead of Kirby's big comeback on the Wii (essentially the Fire Emblem Awakening of Kirby). The Dark Matter Swordsman was one of the first villains in the game. Susue, Taranza, etc. were all important characters from largely successful modern Kirby games.

The appeal to simply having a newcomer for the sake of it is infinitesimal when it comes to representing the series' history. It comes more from a perspective of a long time Kirby fan. People who aren't as in to the series wouldn't see the appeal as much.

On your point about the series having lots of content beyond fighters, that's true. There is a fair amount of non fighter Kirby content in Smash. That's why this thread was primarily dedicated towards the discussion of fighters. But the problem is that all of the stages, the majority of the spirits, almost all of the new remixes and a fair amount of the music selection in general all come from titles that predate even the Wii era--with a significant portion of those predating even the N64. In a sense it's in a similar boat to Fire Emblem fans complaining about all of the fighters using swords--most of the Kirby content in Smash is old. Things we've seen before. New Kirby content has undeniably held a low priority when making new Smash games. That's why there's such an outcry for them to recognize modern Kirby more.

You'll have to see above as to my response. These eras may mean greatly different things for Kirby, but they're just not going to represent all of them. All franchises have great characters that would be great for Smash, but there are pretty strict limits of reality for adding fighters, especially as we move forward. Again, that's why I think just Bandanna Dee and a stage seems the most reasonable solution to the Kirby problem. Just as I think Dixie Kong and a new stage would solve the "DK problem." It would overall complete the "main" representation for these franchises.

Like I said, if we someone have more resources to spare for Kirby newcomers, go for it... but that's going to be hard with how many franchises, already represented and several not represented, are vying for what will inevitably be limited spots like Ultimate. Lest there be a full on reboot, in which case Kirby might honestly end up losing a character depending on the extent of the cuts.

 

[Sebas22]

So were other characters who are now echoes, like Dark Samus.

But the characters I mentioned don't have anyone similar in the game to echo. As I said, Dark Meta Knight and Galacta Knight are already skins. They'll probably never be upgraded to actual fighters, despite having original moves in their respectives games. And Dark Samus is an echo because it's canonically a clone of Samus, just like Dark Pit and Pit.
I know Dark Samus is actually a different entity taking the form of Samus, but maybe they didn't have the time to give it a full original moveset?
The assist trophy version had accurate moves though. Why those weren't used?

And to be rather blunt, so? I admit it's a little ridiculous we haven't seen Bandanna Dee and maybe like a single newer stage... but that's also just how Smash works overall. Not every series is going to get perfect representation or even necessarily "good" representation. Donkey Kong can't escape the jungle for his grand total of three stages in Ultimate and has no content post DK64 in Ultimate right now. Fire Emblem doesn't have the weapon triangle and skips an entire decade of games between Marth's debut and Roy's. There's virtually no Wario Land content in the game to go along with Wario. Mother doesn't touch the first game in the series. Even Pokemon doesn't touch Generation 3 at all, has no fighter for Gen 5, and leans quite heavily on starters. Mario's missing Toad. It's just a reality of making a game like Smash Bros., you can't give everything perfect or even necessarily ideal representation.

That's why Dee basically solves the problem of no newer content since he'll act as a representative for the newer era and that's all Kirby really "needs" (Need in the sense of to make the representation more balanced and overall appropriate for the main characters of the series).

Well, yeah, that's correct. Kirby is not the only franchise that has issues in how it's being represented in Smash. I know it, I'm also a Wario and Mother fan.
But I guess the reason why it hurts so much with Kirby, it's because both Sakurai and Hal are behind the development of Ultimate. The creator and the people carrying the franchise. Seeing as if half of the series just doesn't exist, feels extra awful. Bandanna Dee would solve the problem or at least show they still care, but with how things are, I think we'll be lucky if we ever see a playable Marx... Since he's from Super Star, you know.

 

[TheCJBrine]

But the characters I mentioned don't have anyone similar in the game to echo. As I said, Dark Meta Knight and Galacta Knight are already skins. They'll probably never be upgraded to actual fighters, despite having original moves in their respectives games. And Dark Samus is an echo because it's canonically a clone of Samus, just like Dark Pit and Pit.
I know Dark Samus is actually a different entity taking the form of Samus, but maybe they didn't have the time to give it a full original moveset?
The assist trophy version had accurate moves though. Why those weren't used?


Well, yeah, that's correct. Kirby is not the only franchise that has issues in how it's being represented in Smash. I know it, I'm also a Wario and Mother fan.
But I guess the reason why it hurts so much with Kirby, it's because both Sakurai and Hal are behind the development of Ultimate. The creator and the people carrying the franchise. Seeing as if half of the series just doesn't exist, feels extra awful. Bandanna Dee would solve the problem or at least show they still care, but with how things are, I think we'll be lucky if we ever see a playable Marx... Since he's from Super Star, you know.

Hal is actually only credited because of Kirby being in and because they’re the original team behind Smash, they have no involvement in Ultimate beyond making sure the Kirby stuff is good to go (though they probably trust Sakurai with accurate portrayals anyway, of course).

 

[Blackwolf666]

1. Kirby
2. DDD
3. Metaknight
4. Bandanna Dee
5. -reserved for a villain since everyone above is more or less considered a good guy at this point-

 

[RetrogamerMax]

1. Kirby
2. DDD
3. Metaknight
4. Bandanna Dee
5. -reserved for a villain since everyone above is more or less considered a good guy at this point-

For 5 I would choose Marx.

 

[Quillion]

As I said, Dark Meta Knight and Galacta Knight are already skins.

Explain Daisy.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Explain Daisy.

Being a skin doesn't confirm in any way that they will be added as a clone.

Daisy is a terrible example anyway since she has next to no canon appearances of her own and is mainly designed leaning on Peach's design in spinoff games. Her "daisy magic" is the primary thing that sets her appart from Peach's hearts and ribbons, and while they could have had a few unique moves with this, remember that she's probably in a similar situation as Dark Samus. There simply wasn't a unique and developed enough moveset that was realized enough to warrant extra development in Ultimate's tight amount of time.

 

[Quillion]

Being a skin doesn't confirm in any way that they will be added as a clone.

I'm saying that it doesn't deconfirm it, not that it confirms it.

Sebas22 seems to think that DMK and GK can never be promoted to (semi)echo on the basis of them currently being alts.

 

[Sebas22]

I'm saying that it doesn't deconfirm it, not that it confirms it.

Sebas22 seems to think that DMK and GK can never be promoted to (semi)echo on the basis of them currently being alts.

Ahem, on the basis of them currently being alts AND belonging to the neglected part of the Kirby series. -_-

Daisy is there because it was an ultra easy addition. There was nothing against including her.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I'm saying that it doesn't deconfirm it, not that it confirms it.

Sebas22 seems to think that DMK and GK can never be promoted to (semi)echo on the basis of them currently being alts.

Oh whoops. Misinterpreted the post, I apologize.

And there's no official rule saying DMK and GK can't be unique, you're right. Considering the vast differences in their boss fights it would be shameful for them to get the clone treatment.

 

[Deleted member]

The only Kirby newcomer i want in is Marx but i'd also be cool with Dark Matter and Knuckle Joe joining ( try saying that 3 times fast lmao ) aswell. And on another note Knuckle Joe would've been a better surprise character than the plant.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

The only Kirby newcomer i want in is Marx but i'd also be cool with Dark Matter and Knuckle Joe joining ( try saying that 3 times fast lmao ) aswell. And on another note Knuckle Joe would've been a better surprise character than the plant.

Knuckle Joe would be very interesting since the fighter ability form Kirby has a few street fighter references in it. I'd be willing to see what a potential moveset for him beholds.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

The only Kirby newcomer i want in is Marx but i'd also be cool with Dark Matter and Knuckle Joe joining ( try saying that 3 times fast lmao ) aswell. And on another note Knuckle Joe would've been a better surprise character than the plant.

I'm on aboard with getting Bandana Dee in for the sake of Kirby getting it's 4th wheel in Smash. But I'm the same as you, the only Kirby newcomer I really desire is Marx.