How happy are you with the new Samus?

[distr0ia]

distr0ia i think you shouldlearn to spike Dair more the hit box is larger..and use Nair less its super nerfed =( nice dedication BTW =D

actually, I've been dairing prominently since Melee, but I haven't really paid attention to hit boxes yet...I'll have to keep that in mind

regarding the nair lol tell me about it; it's still okay for getting people off your back for a sec, but not too much else...I could tell from day one that I would be henceforth training myself not to use it nearly as often it's getting frustrating

Super missiles are extremely effective

I disagree on this point greatly, FuLLBLeeD; I reccomend making the switch to heatseakers and using smash missles strategically (in other words, sparingly)

 

[HugS]

Very unhappy.

Nintendo tore my heart out by nerfing my character. I will still play her, butplaying her feels as if I've been married to this ***** for 30 years. I wouldn't mind a divorce, but we have a family together and we're too old to remarry so we just figure we'll stick together.

Maybe it's just me speaking from "feeling" because I don't have frame proof, but I don't see this whole "her attack speed is fast" thing. The start up on her fsmash and dsmash seem to be a lot slower. Her uptilt has more afterlag than it did in melee. Her dtilt seems to be the only powerful ground move that got an improvement or actually just managed to avoid a nerf.

I don't see this being mentioned enough, but the range on a lot of her moves got nerfed as well. Her fsmash doesn't have the same range as it used to. Not only is it missing the hitbox in front of it, but you can miss the fsmash, and a lot of other attacks, just by being too close to an opponent; a problem that was not so prevalent in melee. These facts make it harder to space properly, as if getting rid of wavedashing and dash dancing wasn't enough.

Here are some more myths that should be disproven right now:
Her super missiles are not better/they do not set up for combos
Her bombs are not more useful
Her up B is not better. The priority at the start seems worse and the range on it is worse as well. Also, it can't be fastfalled the way it could in melee. With that fact comes a lot of disadvantages.
Her Autocancelling does not do much in a game without stun. Realize that the whole point of L cancelling was to take advantage of stun. Autocancelling here only helps as a way to avoid getting ***** for lagging.


But, on the plus side, her Ftilts are better, her dtilt is better, her zair is amazing, her upair is better, and her dash attack is better. Her nair is usable in a different kind of way, but i'd take a KO move over a set up move anyday in Brawl. She needs them.

 

[Dobs1007]

I'm not as unhappy as Hugs but I feel the same way on a majority of things. Samus was mid-tier in melee. Then they go and nerf her when characters like Marth are basically unchanged. I don't understand there reasoning also I watched the 1-up interview and completely agree on whoever came up with tripping when running should be fired. But as I said in my original post I think she has really good combos. I love her air game good edge guarder missiles and charge shot give her range as does zair. Overall I still enjoy playing her a real lot, and she is still my main.

 

[Eten]

If Samus had a bit less size and fell about twice as fast, she'd be great. For some reason, and I don't know why, Samus in the SSE mode is completely different from Samus in anything else, and I'm assuming it is because SSE has higher gravity on Samus or something(I did check if it was course specific or sticker related, it's not). She has a super sexy short hop that goes very low, you get more direction out of her morphball when you lay a bomb. Seeing her like that, and comparing it to what she actually is in brawls, it really makes you realize all of what Samus could have been and how much she is lacking.

 

[Rohins]

I don't see this being mentioned enough, but the range on a lot of her moves got nerfed as well. Her fsmash doesn't have the same range as it used to. Not only is it missing the hitbox in front of it, but you can miss the fsmash, and a lot of other attacks, just by being too close to an opponent; a problem that was not so prevalent in melee. These facts make it harder to space properly, as if getting rid of wavedashing and dash dancing wasn't enough.

I ***** about her fsmash more than anything in the game. The hitbox is small horizontally (can miss if too close, misses if you try to tip it) and vertically. I've fsmashed people but it missed them because they were in their landing animation and it hit over them.

Bair's pretty aweful too. It's a crappy kill move as far as % goes, but that doesn't really bother me too much. It's how precise you have to be with the **** thing. It only hits in the beginning of the animation so you can't start the move and then hit with the lag already out.

These are my two biggest complaints about her, but they're enough for me to switch mains. I still play her but I don't really enjoy her that much. I feel it's really unrewarding working hard to hit with her awkward moves and then see people survive it at 150%.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

Hugs its sad to see you so unhappy with the new Samus. You were the go to guy for Samus in Melee, I always watched your videos and learned from them.

And I do find super missiles pretty useful.

What about her got nerfed exactly? Besides the chargeshot.

On the other hand, Hylian, who is a very good Samus, seems to love the new Samus.

 

[HugS]

Hugs its sad to see you so unhappy with the new Samus. You were the go to guy for Samus in Melee, I always watched your videos and learned from them.

And I do find super missiles pretty useful.

What about her got nerfed exactly? Besides the chargeshot.

On the other hand, Hylian, who is a very good Samus, seems to love the new Samus.

You're right, hylian is a good samus...

But, I think he loves winning more than he loves the new samus.
Just sayin...

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

You're right, hylian is a good samus...

But, I think he loves winning more than he loves the new samus.
Just sayin...

What do you mean?

 

[HugS]

It's easier to like anything new about this game if it is correlated with you winning more than you did in Melee. And vice versa

I'm not saying it's wrong though. I'm probably a bit biased against the new samus because I'm not winning as much as I did in melee. I still win, but clearly not at the same degree. Then again, no one really is winning at that level right now.

I didn't mean anything bad by it.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

No I get it dude. Honestly, watching you and Hylian play just makes me like Samus even more. Sure, chargeshot doesn't kill as well as it did, but she has so much else going for her it makes it easy for me to forget.

BTW, I've discovered that when you're close to the edge, chargeshot kills at much lower percents. It has something to do with the stuntime why you're in the air and unable to DI. Its hard to explain, but it makes it a better kill move then fsmash in those scenarios.

Also, why don't you like the super missile? You're obviously playing at a higher level then me, but I find them great for setting up combos.

 

[HugS]

Because high level players don't even get comboed by nair to fsmash/dtilt combos after airdodging out. And this is is more true for any type of super missile combo unless I'm just completely missing something.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

Instead of missile canceling two homing, Ill shoot a homing than a super missile. The homing hits first, then the super missile hits, giving me an opportunity to fsmash.

 

[vagabond]

IMO, Samus is one of the top 3 characters in Brawl atm, with the other two being Ike and Dedede in no particular order. I personally liked her in Melee but love her in Brawl. Almost all of her nerfs are subsided by more noticeable buffs.

 

[ph00tbag]

I'm still getting used to her aerial movements (which are actually a bit closer to her Super Metroid movements, come to think of it), but I'm beginning to appreciate what makes her a good character. The timing for a lot of things is very different, so it's taking a great deal of patience to relearn.

Overall, though, I'm very pleased with how she turned out.

 

[Eten]

I wish they were closer to her Super Metroid movements! But no, you can't hold a button to dash up to crazy speeds and make jumps that carry all that momentum while launching numerous super missiles at a downwards 45 degree angle across the course =P. Ahh cripes I'm gonna have to practice my 100% speed run tomorrow now.

In fact, I greatly dislike Sakurai's direction of Samus. To a degree I always have, it was only in melee where her missiles could actually represent her dominant use of projectiles and her wavedash simulated her speed. But now she's bulkier, floatier, and even more melee oriented than ever before. She doesn't deserve such a slow start/stop along with a weaker dash, she doesn't deserve to be a whole head taller than link/bigger frame than Ike, and she sure as hell doesn't deserve to be so slow in coming down in the air, making it a weakness when she's airborne.

I'm sad too to see you unhappy with Samus, Hugs. But I wouldn't blame you for playing some else if you had decided to. When you really get to see what has been done to Samus, it's almost not worth playing her, even if you do hold a great dedication to the character. That is what I'm sad for.

 

[Hylian]

You're right, hylian is a good samus...

But, I think he loves winning more than he loves the new samus.
Just sayin...

It makes me sad that you say this Hugs. It is completely wrong and hurtful. The first time I played Samus in brawl I was convinced that I would not play this character because of how boring she seemed. I was going to play pit because he seemed really good. But then my friend who also loves samus told me he wanted me to figure out how to play her because he thought I could. This got me thinking about how much I loved samus in melee and how I was dissapointed at myself for dropping Samus for fox because I was winning a lot more with him. I will not let that happen again.

How could you say I love winning more then I love the new samus hugs? Especially when we all thought samus was a horrible character? Did you ever think that maybe I am winning a lot because of how much dedication I have had to samus? Why would I play samus just to win with her when I could invest my time in the seemingly better characters. It hurts me because I spent a lot of time and work on my samus. It's not fair for you to say I love winning more then my character. Especially when all I have been doing recently is trying to show how much potential she has.

 

[Soma]

I just want the old missles and nair back. The f smash sucks now, but without wavedashing, its nearly impossible to get off consistently.

 

[Dobs1007]

Hylian I thank you for your hard work dedication to Samus. I too am sticking with her and am glad that you and other people are dedicated to do the same. For me I love the character more then winning right now because I am not winning as much as I would like, but when I do it is the best of both worlds.

 

[HugS]

It makes me sad that you say this Hugs. It is completely wrong and hurtful. The first time I played Samus in brawl I was convinced that I would not play this character because of how boring she seemed. I was going to play pit because he seemed really good. But then my friend who also loves samus told me he wanted me to figure out how to play her because he thought I could. This got me thinking about how much I loved samus in melee and how I was dissapointed at myself for dropping Samus for fox because I was winning a lot more with him. I will not let that happen again.

How could you say I love winning more then I love the new samus hugs? Especially when we all thought samus was a horrible character? Did you ever think that maybe I am winning a lot because of how much dedication I have had to samus? Why would I play samus just to win with her when I could invest my time in the seemingly better characters. It hurts me because I spent a lot of time and work on my samus. It's not fair for you to say I love winning more then my character. Especially when all I have been doing recently is trying to show how much potential she has.

I didn't mean anything bad by it, I'm just saying if you were losing more with samus you may not enjoy the character as much as you do right now. I mean, you said it yourself, you got tired of losing in Melee as samus so you switched over to fox.

I didn't mean to offend you with that statement. There is no doubt that you like samus, there's no doubt that I like samus, otherwise we wouldn't be maining her. My point is that I may be unhappy with her new design because I'm not winning at the level I was in Melee, and you may be a lot happier with the character due to the fact that you are having an easier time winning with her in this game. If that logic does not apply to you then I apologize for mentioning it. Again, I didn't mean anything bad by it. Sorry.

I hope you understand that I don't believe liking a character because you win with her is a bad thing to do. So i wasn't looking down on it as it may have come off.

 

[Pi]

The things that HugS has said are true, her UB seems to get canceled by a lot of moves, and it leaves you vulnerable if doesn't grab your opponent, also you can't fast fall it.

The Fsmash being one of her kill moves, personally I've been trying to angle it upward to get off the hit but have been unable to hit people in some situations, so that part is true.

The UTilt, I still have a hard time finding ways to apply it, since everyone sweet spots the edge now...

I still haven't found any methods of assuring my charged beam to hit, haven't done Charged beam out of shield much, though.


Her Ftilt seems slower to me, but still effective, her Dtilt has big range but I think HugS is right when he said it just avoided a nerf.

The power missiles and her Nair took a lot away from her game. But the improved homing missiles (come out faster is only improvement, I think?) and the zair I'd say make up for that.

I'm still rather happy with her. Her Aerials cancel fast, but I don't know how helpful this is going to be in higher levels of gameplay where people are PS'ing regularly.

Bair is definitely hard to land, but I don't think any harder than in melee, although I did seem to land it more in melee, I think I just need to get use to setting up for it.

As of now I think samus is a solid character. But I don't know if her future looks too bright.

I'm afraid that at higher levels of play we'll be reduced to zair and homing missle spamming to rack up damage then when we try to get off kill moves we'll get punished.


But we'll see.

 

[ph00tbag]

I didn't mean to offend you with that statement. There is no doubt that you like samus, there's no doubt that I like samus, otherwise we wouldn't be maining her.

The mutual Samus love is great and all. Let's just remember to stay away from the Samus sandwiches.

 

[nb4real]

They made samus god awful. Her fwd B doesn't smash for crap anymore. Even at 200 I swear. The charge shot is a joke. Why does bowser have a faster roll than samus. I think it's so silly. Her kicks don't do the damage.

this is the most frustrating thing ever.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

They made samus god awful. Her fwd B doesn't smash for crap anymore. Even at 200 I swear. The charge shot is a joke. Why does bowser have a faster roll than samus. I think it's so silly. Her kicks don't do the damage.

this is the most frustrating thing ever.

You kidding me?

First off, super missiles are so good. Secondly, chargeshot is still good, people just live longer. Thirdly, Bowser DOES NOT have a faster roll than Samus.

 

[Eten]

Super missiles aren't good. They shoot too high, do too little damage for how little they hit, and their knockback is almost all vertical with little stun time, making any follow up on a super missile next to nothing. It needs to be fired at a greater frequency or something. Chargeshot is still good imho. But Samus does have one of the slowest/worst rolls in the game, right up there with bowsers- it possibly has use in 4-person brawls or something where the long duration and distance can get you through something nasty, but in 1v1 it just means she can't roll.

But this is the most frustrating thing ever. There just are smaller, faster, more varied characters that can rack up damage with less work and then KO at lower %. I love Samus as a character to death but she just doesn't work in brawl. I still try, I'm hoping that something will be discovered that drastically improves her, she already has some potential is certain matchups w/ the Zair, but unless more is put together for Samus's game she's going to be a whooolle lot of work to win with.

 

[C.S. Dinah]

I upgraded w/ Samus, dsmash isn't quite as fast, charge shot time is quicker, and who said bomb jump was hard? I did that just fine (even though it didn't have that bomb jump feel to it)
I friggen luv Samus!!

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

Super missiles aren't good. They shoot too high, do too little damage for how little they hit, and their knockback is almost all vertical with little stun time, making any follow up on a super missile next to nothing. It needs to be fired at a greater frequency or something. Chargeshot is still good imho. But Samus does have one of the slowest/worst rolls in the game, right up there with bowsers- it possibly has use in 4-person brawls or something where the long duration and distance can get you through something nasty, but in 1v1 it just means she can't roll.

But this is the most frustrating thing ever. There just are smaller, faster, more varied characters that can rack up damage with less work and then KO at lower %. I love Samus as a character to death but she just doesn't work in brawl. I still try, I'm hoping that something will be discovered that drastically improves her, she already has some potential is certain matchups w/ the Zair, but unless more is put together for Samus's game she's going to be a whooolle lot of work to win with.

Super missiles are very effective against lightweight characters. I don't think you're giving her enough credit. Samus can kill lightweights at ridiculously low percents.

Watch and see. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Lc-kqakH0_4

Diddy is having a tougher time killing Samus then Samus is killing him. Trust me. Lightweights are going to hate Samus.

 

[Hylian]

I didn't mean anything bad by it, I'm just saying if you were losing more with samus you may not enjoy the character as much as you do right now. I mean, you said it yourself, you got tired of losing in Melee as samus so you switched over to fox.

I didn't mean to offend you with that statement. There is no doubt that you like samus, there's no doubt that I like samus, otherwise we wouldn't be maining her. My point is that I may be unhappy with her new design because I'm not winning at the level I was in Melee, and you may be a lot happier with the character due to the fact that you are having an easier time winning with her in this game. If that logic does not apply to you then I apologize for mentioning it. Again, I didn't mean anything bad by it. Sorry.

I hope you understand that I don't believe liking a character because you win with her is a bad thing to do. So i wasn't looking down on it as it may have come off.

I understand. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Gypsy Lee]

Why are people saying Samus can't kill anymore? She really didn't kill that good in Melee either; the majority of her KOs came from her ridiculously good edge game, which is actually better in Brawl. Who needs a kill move when you can cheaply ledge hop a b-air and punt your recovering opponent into oblivion at 20% damage? A z-air or uncharged charge shot stun opponents long enough to leap off the edge and spike them with a d-air. Ledge hopped u-airs and f-airs into a combo on an edgeguarding opponent is amazing. You could literally play an entire match from the ledge if you wanted.

I know I may be talking when and where I shouldn't, excuse me, but I don't think that she was nerfed at all. It's just that she plays so differently, and you professionals, who are so used to Melee Samus, are just having a difficult time adjusting. If you read through this whole thread, you'll notice that all the new players are absolutely loving her, and the Melee pros are the only ones complaing, save Hylian, who has completely relearned the character. I dunno. I'm talking to people who know way more about it then I do. Sorry.

 

[BlackSabbath370]

She sucks, they should have redone samus entirely. She should have her PED suit from Metroid Prime 3 instead of her Varia Suit. Make her moves based off of MP3. Able to shoot constent beams with the nova cannon and fire ice missles. Her final smash move could be Hypermode shooting Phazon constently. But that is just my opinion.

 

[The Darkness]

If you read through this whole thread, you'll notice that all the new players are absolutely loving her, and the Melee pros are the only ones complaing, save Hylian, who has completely relearned the character. I dunno. I'm talking to people who know way more about it then I do. Sorry.

Thats because she was WAY better in melee, from anyway you see it, lets face it, shes has all of her moves nerfed, even in melee she have almost no lag from air attacks, so im not surprised that in brawl is the same, the only thing you have better here is the zair, and the slightly faster homing missiles, and the thing that really pisses me off, is the fact that she almost completely the ability to play in a more "MINDGAMES SON" way, i really loved the fact that she was very unpredictable and everyone could play samus in various styles.

Anyway, i still really like playing her in brawl though, and my goal is to make Samus a pain in the a$$, and improve her to the point that she could face everyone.

 

[Gypsy Lee]

She wasn't that great in Melee until people started getting used to her, playing her more, and eventually, discovering advanced techniques that made her even better. And I think the same is true with Brawl Samus. Samus isn't a shallow character like Wolf or Marth. Once people start improving with her, who knows? She may be the same "Mindgames, son" character she was in Melee.

 

[Dream Chaser]

She sucks, they should have redone samus entirely. She should have her PED suit from Metroid Prime 3 instead of her Varia Suit. Make her moves based off of MP3. Able to shoot constent beams with the nova cannon and fire ice missles. Her final smash move could be Hypermode shooting Phazon constently. But that is just my opinion.

I think she should be able to space jump (like kirby) and fall abit faster. Make her switch the charge shot with the super scope (coz its far more true to the series), chenge the grapple mechanics so it can also grab the side of the stage (like in ssbm). Down b should make her go into morph ball where she can lay bombs (FS is changed to powerbomb) and the recovery consists of DIing in close to the wall where you can spider ball recover or using across b is boost ball (or both). FS (standing samus) aquires the ice beam and samus freezes opponents on the spot.



I know its not happening and I find that the Samus we have (however different she is from the Metroid series) is a reliable character (at least at this stage).
(I really like the movement and artwork of the missiles and super misslies)

 

[W.Jr]

she is still good, though a couple of downfalls

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

Thats because she was WAY better in melee, from anyway you see it, lets face it, shes has all of her moves nerfed, even in melee she have almost no lag from air attacks, so im not surprised that in brawl is the same, the only thing you have better here is the zair, and the slightly faster homing missiles, and the thing that really pisses me off, is the fact that she almost completely the ability to play in a more "MINDGAMES SON" way, i really loved the fact that she was very unpredictable and everyone could play samus in various styles.

Anyway, i still really like playing her in brawl though, and my goal is to make Samus a pain in the a$$, and improve her to the point that she could face everyone.

One move got nerfed, and another just has horizontal knockback now. You guys are making it seem like shes worthless now.

 

[Eten]

Super missiles are very effective against lightweight characters. I don't think you're giving her enough credit. Samus can kill lightweights at ridiculously low percents.

Watch and see. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Lc-kqakH0_4

Diddy is having a tougher time killing Samus then Samus is killing him. Trust me. Lightweights are going to hate Samus.

0_o

Those aren't super missiles. Hylian lost.

 

[RaigothDagon]

I agree that she has been nerfed in a lot of ways respecting Melee. That game was where she was my favorite, and after getting good with that style and then they nerf all the good things about that style, I was very upset, complaining to my little brother she was probably bottom tier. But, despite my constant complaining, I devoted a lot of time to her new moves figuring out what works with what. Now I look at her very differently. Yes, it is true that it is harder to kill with her, but I believe Hylian mentioned that it is also extremely easy to rack up percent.(if you know what you are doing) I believe that it is a character new people cannot just pick up and say, "this is the best player ever!" and then proceed with major carnage. I think she has a very high learning curve, and that is just what makes her better. I find it more fun to own people with a character that normally would not be seen to have such potential.

 

[Pi]

Playing more I've started to use uncharged shots a lot more and tried to improve my edge-hog with grapple.


The uncharged shots come out extremely fast and they stun when they hit, so this ought to throw off your opponent, and if not the lag behind them is quite minimal and you can usually get a hit off. If they become predictable, and stop hitting as much you can just switch to homing. But again I don't want to camp ._. I want to melee my opponent more than anything, I don't like camping at all, even with Zair.


I think Samus' edgegame + edgehog with grapple (unfortunately) is going to be what gets her the most kills. I'd have to recommend everyone get use to that reverse hop thing? Where you keep your momentum but change the direction you face, makes it easier to get the grapple on the ledge.


Just my personal opinions, we'll see what works and what doesn't in the future I guess.


Also does anyone else hate the fact that you can't approach from above, like above above, vertically. I always did that in melee, I loved Dairing people on the ground or when they jumped up to attack me, but now it seems like I can't get the hit off for **** so I'll be forced to air dodge and get back onto the ground, further slowing down the game ._.


Overall I think Samus for me has prolly gone down to a 6/7, I need to get some real fights off though (not computer and not button delay wifi) before I can say what's gonna happen for the future. Hope we (as a community) can continue to improve her, though, I wish we had as many tricks as in melee though! SWD In particular

 

[HugS]

Why are people saying Samus can't kill anymore? She really didn't kill that good in Melee either; the majority of her KOs came from her ridiculously good edge game, which is actually better in Brawl. Who needs a kill move when you can cheaply ledge hop a b-air and punt your recovering opponent into oblivion at 20% damage? A z-air or uncharged charge shot stun opponents long enough to leap off the edge and spike them with a d-air. Ledge hopped u-airs and f-airs into a combo on an edgeguarding opponent is amazing. You could literally play an entire match from the ledge if you wanted.

I know I may be talking when and where I shouldn't, excuse me, but I don't think that she was nerfed at all. It's just that she plays so differently, and you professionals, who are so used to Melee Samus, are just having a difficult time adjusting. If you read through this whole thread, you'll notice that all the new players are absolutely loving her, and the Melee pros are the only ones complaing, save Hylian, who has completely relearned the character. I dunno. I'm talking to people who know way more about it then I do. Sorry.

I think you are confused about the way the edgegame works here. You can't simply jump off with a bair or sex kick to "punt you rrecovering opponent into oblivion at 20%", unlike in melee, this game makes you wait until your invincibility goes away before you can get off the ledge. Your get up attack isn't really invincible anymore either. Not only are you missing frames of invincibility, but most of the opponents will have an invincible up B to stop you from doing anything to them anyways.

You're neglecting to include samus's current environment in your defense for why she hasn't been nerfed. But it's clear that she has.

Except for hylian, most talented melee samus players will agree that she has been nerfed.
And of course the newer players are all loving the new samus. The newer players never really understood the samus meta game to begin with, so they are missing out on knowing what exactly made her great to begin with. It's easier to appreciate a character that's missing a lot when you really never knew what she was supposed to have to begin with.

 

[Pi]

HugS, I was just wondering how badly do you think Samus has been nerfed? You seem to act as if there was only one way to play samus both in melee and in brawl. You agree that this is indeed a different game, so I'm wondering in what respect do you feel she was nerfed as a character. Do you mean how she stacks up to the other characters in the game? Or in the style of gameplay that melee was played in. And if so don't you think there is perhaps some new ways to play her we need to figure out?

I don't know if that made a whole lot of sense...

I'm just kinda foggy on the whole 'nerfing' aspect, certainly the melee samus style is nerfed greatly but I'm wondering if the nerfing people are referring to is that in general she's just at a lower tier ranking? Idk, just confused a little.

 

[TheKingofDes]

Power Suit- Middle Tier
Zero Suit- Bottom Tier