How happy are you with the new Samus?

[Rohins]

HugS, I was just wondering how badly do you think Samus has been nerfed? You seem to act as if there was only one way to play samus both in melee and in brawl. You agree that this is indeed a different game, so I'm wondering in what respect do you feel she was nerfed as a character. Do you mean how she stacks up to the other characters in the game? Or in the style of gameplay that melee was played in. And if so don't you think there is perhaps some new ways to play her we need to figure out?

I don't know if that made a whole lot of sense...

I'm just kinda foggy on the whole 'nerfing' aspect, certainly the melee samus style is nerfed greatly but I'm wondering if the nerfing people are referring to is that in general she's just at a lower tier ranking? Idk, just confused a little.

I will say she is nerfed relative to other characters in Brawl. Take a look at her hitboxes. For kill moves she has pretty small hit boxes that are not out for a very long time. So not only does she have to have people at higher percent to get kills, she has to be extra precise. A seemingly unnecessary precision considering how little you are rewarded for landing the hits. When you compare this to members of the cast who not only have huge hit boxes and hit boxes that are sustained for longer period of time they also kill at lower percent. How are you not at a disadvantage at this point?

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

I'm fine with the new Samus, in fact I'm pretty happy with her.
Her charge shot is the only thing that ticks me off... there are lightweight characters whos smashes kill befor her charge shot does and that just isn't right.

other then that its all good, I've even got the timing down to cancel a s.missle at the same level as a grounded s.missle so thats not a big problem for me anymore.

 

[GreenMarth]

The nair is still extremely good, just different. The fact that it has very little knockback allows you to combo with it very nicely. Nair -> jab -> dtit -> Screw attack is, at the moment at least, a staple of my game; it works on the majority of the cast at a nice range of damages.

sorry for offtopicness..

but i think thats great compensation! lol thats a great way to use nerfs to advantages and you know i done even think i can call it much of a nerf anymore

so overall i think she just plays differently

 

[HugS]

sorry for offtopicness..

but i think thats great compensation! lol thats a great way to use nerfs to advantages and you know i done even think i can call it much of a nerf anymore

so overall i think she just plays differently

And of course the newer players are all loving the new samus. The newer players never really understood the samus meta game to begin with, so they are missing out on knowing what exactly made her great to begin with. It's easier to appreciate a character that's missing a lot when you really never knew what she was supposed to have to begin with.

Just sayin

And to kniht, I'm saying that samus is nerfed from melee based on the fact that she was better equipped to handle her environment in Melee than she is in Brawl. If that makes sense.

 

[Hylian]

Honestly, so far it seems like samus will be very hard to use. She is simply not as good as alot of other characters. And I don't like comparing melee to brawl. So I avoid saying any character was buffed/nurfed due to the new engine.

 

[RaigothDagon]

Like Hylian said, I agree with. Samus will be very hard to use, therefore having few people to play as her as other people progress to much greater skill levels. But I think that Samus has the potential to be the best in the game. It took me a long time to get where I was comfortable with the new Samus, but after I did, I realized Samus has a lot of advantages over most characters that probably will be top tier. Probably her biggest weakness to me is that she can hardly deal with smaller characters, like G+W Pikachu and Kirby. But if all the big characters turn out to be top tier and everyone uses them, I see Samus being the counter.

 

[Pi]

Alright thanks guys, that clears things up.

So then, we're pretty much in the same boat as in melee? Have to work twice as hard for the same results as a fox/marth/falco/pit/etc user...



Would you guys say she is at a lower standing than in melee (keeping in mind that this is still early in the game's lifespan)?



And yea, Rohins, her kill moves are a huge gimp, but her edge guard with grapple is pretty **** effective, and she has good recovery gimp moves, so maybe we should look into getting our opponent off the stage and making sure they can't come back instead of killing them?


Perhaps we should make a list of things samus is good at and things she isn't so we can sit down and figure out ways to play her XD

 

[jwj442]

What tier position would you expect for Samus, Hylian?

 

[Hylian]

What tier position would you expect for Samus, Hylian?

Low tier easily.



I think she should be around mid or high though.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

Low tier easily.



I think she should be around mid or high though.

Care to elaborate?

I think Samus is good against characters her own height, the problem is those **** little characters.

 

[Dobs1007]

Tiers are based on tourney results and how many people play character few will play Samus and the ones that do only a few of them will play at high level.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

Samus will be a high/mid tier character...but her position on the tier list shouldn't be the reason you play her.

 

[Pi]

Nor should it be an excuse as to why you lost, but people still do it.

 

[ph00tbag]

Samus will be a high/mid tier character...but her position on the tier list shouldn't be the reason you play her.

She will not be any higher than mid. She's better than many people think, IMO, but she's not that good after all of it.

 

[Bazewka]

I started playing a lot more of Samus since brawl. I like her much better than in Melee.

 

[k4polo]

Power Suit- Middle Tier
Zero Suit- Bottom Tier

Hmm interesting. Actually alot of ppl place ZSS above Samus on tierlist at least here. But inany case the tiers should be interesting. Then again some ppl think marth is mid tier and well you know.

I am ok with Samus. I am a ZSS main but because of the code I play Samus sometimes as well. Samus did get nerfed though. Samus with the fast missiles and the bomb jump, and powerful charge shot was pretty good,but hey I deal with it when I do play her.

 

[J0K3R]

Nor should it be an excuse as to why you lost, but people still do it.

Quoted for truth!

 

[masterofsamus]

I really like her in Brawl. Although she is a bit slower, you just got to get use to it and know what attacks are really strong. Plus, she looks way better in Brawl than in Melee.

 

[The Slayer]

For me, she's not easy to combo with now and Meteor Smashing with her Down-A isn't as easy now thanks to characters going above her easily. However, I did see improvement with her normal missiles, thanks to that one video with Hylian in it. Hopefully though, she'll be something else as this game goes by over the years.

 

[feyth]

When I first played her in Brawl it felt different... I'd been playing her in Melee the day before. I got used to her pretty fast though, and I can play her fairly well.

Personally I think she's become a bit more versatile. Her charge shot seems to come out a little faster - though that might just be me - and her new super missle thing is a lot of fun. I'd have loved it even if it were just cosmetic, but still.

Yep, definitely like her as much as I used to!

 

[DD151]

Super missiles are very effective against lightweight characters. I don't think you're giving her enough credit. Samus can kill lightweights at ridiculously low percents.

Watch and see. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Lc-kqakH0_4

Diddy is having a tougher time killing Samus then Samus is killing him. Trust me. Lightweights are going to hate Samus.

i don't see how that video supports your argument.

someone already established that hylian wasn't using super missiles. i'm fairly sure i only saw 2 super missiles, and one of them failed to even deal significant knockback to diddy at a fairly high %.

i would hardly call 147% and 164% "ridiculously low." samus was having just as much trouble killing diddy in that video as diddy was with samus. her lack of ko moves is painfully obvious; both of hylian's kills came from fsmashes that seemed almost like lucky shots.

i also like how a bunch of randoms with single digit post counts are posting about how much better samus is in brawl when they likely had no high level competitive experience in melee.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

She will not be any higher than mid. She's better than many people think, IMO, but she's not that good after all of it.

W/e. I tend to treat the tear list like I do toilet paper, its good for wiping your *** with and thats about it. Whats its existence for anyway? It serves no practical purpose other than "OMG guys Marth is better than yoshi lolz!"

Just STFU and play whoever you like.

 

[Yorenec]

I wanted to wait at least 2 weeks after release before posting in this thread, and well I guess 2 weeks is up.

Bear with me on this post, I'm writing this just after losing to a pretty good Zelda. A fight that I controlled the general flow of for 90% of the match but lost because outside of edgeguarding, Samus' complete inability to KO.

I tried to tell myself once that the reason she can't KO very well is because if she could, then she would be possibly be broken and Sakurai/the devs didn't want a broken character.

Then I looked at Marth and TL and completely purged that reason from my head.

So the general question is Why? We don't really know. The most logical reason to me is that they got so caught up in the development process/didn't have time they forgot about some character's weaknesses.
That or the game wasn't play tested very well.
Looking at the overall game in general, I know Sakurai tried to make the cast as balanced as possible, and I applaud him for that. It just didn't really happen, which is honestly expected.

Everytime I lose a match because my opponent slowly wracked up damage on me whilst I had to get them to 170-220% to KO, it wears down my morale and will to use her. Everytime I win a match through good edgeguarding, well-timed zairs, 10-60% strings, fast approaches/defenses to wrack up quick damage then get out, it recharges me and keeps me going.
For instance today I managed to take down a decent TL on Smashville. I never once edgeguard-finished him. Closest I got in that respect was by giving him an opportunity to easily dair me right off the ledge, AD'ing the dair and then cancelling it by grappling the ledge. I won that match by being mostly aggresive while going on defense as needed. Keeping close to him with missile/uncharged shot spam to somewhat counter his own projectile spam. Giving him a chance to dair me then rolling out of the way and punishing with a grab or dash-->upb or usmash. After winning that match I felt pretty good cause I had won vs TL.
Note: I had fought that same TL for about 2 hours straight, won like 2 out of 16 matches. The other match I only won imo cause of lag. That one true win and the experience/knowledge I had gained from the matches made it all worth it though.

Do I have fun with her? Yes I have to admit I am having fun with her for the most part, even when my opponent is above 140% damage.

I love Samus. I switched to maining her from Luigi in late '99 or early '00, that area. Super Metroid is my hands down favorite game of all time, and she's one of my favorite, if not favorite, video game characters. Pretty much what HugS said earlier in the thread. There's really no point in turning back now.

Do I think she'll be anywhere near top tier? No, unless some extremely broken technique to KO like a normal character is discovered, it's highly doubtful.

Low high tier/high mid tier as time passes by and we continue to figure out how she works? It's quite probable.

Do I really care if she's not top tier? I'd be lying if I said I didn't in some way.

So the topic question is. How happy are you with the new Samus?

It took me about a week to get adjusted to how, for the most part, she works in this game and I love it. It just gets incredibly frustrating trying to KO somebody though where other characters do it easily.

Overall, I would say a 6, probably a 7 on a scale of 10. A lot of that is because of Hylian though. The Samus community as a whole owes him a big thanks imo. I really don't know how he managed to put up with her that first month basically on his own without completely giving up and using G&W or somebody full-time.

I know I bother him on aim on an almost daily basis. Asking him for tips, character specific strategies, what have you and he has shown infinite patience so far. Thank you sir.

Anyway yea, I know that was a big wall of text.

Really guys. It's still early, she's not absolutely terrible and she's not a shallow character. We won't be using her even remotely effectively for at least a year, that I'm sure of. Stick with it.

Edit: Little clean-up.

 

[Hylian]

I wanted to wait at least 2 weeks after release before posting this thread, and well I guess 2 weeks is up.

Bear with me on this post, I'm writing this just after losing to a pretty good Zelda. A fight that I controlled the general flow of for 90% of the match but lost because outside of edgeguarding, Samus' complete inability to KO.

I tried to tell myself once that the reason she can't KO very well is because if she could, then she would be possibly be broken and Sakurai/the devs didn't want a broken character.

Then I looked at Marth and TL and completely purgeg that reason from my head.

So the general question is Why? We don't really know. The most logical reason to me is that they got so caught up in the development process/didn't have time they forgot about some character's weaknesses.
That or the game wasn't play tested very well.
Looking at the overall game in general, I know Sakurai tried to make the cast as balanced as possible, and I applaud him for that. It just didn't really happen, which is honestly expected.

Everytime I lose a match because my opponent slowly wracked up damage on me whilst I had to get them to 170-220% to KO, it wears down my morale and will to use her. Everytime I win a match through good edgeguarding, well-timed zairs, 10-60% strings, fast approaches/defenses to wrack up quick damage then get out, it recharges me and keeps me going.
For instance today I managed to take down a decent TL on Smashville. I never once edgeguard-finished him. Closest I got in that respect was by giving him an opportunity to easily dair me right off the ledge, AD'ing the dair and then cancelling it by grappling the ledge. I won that match by being mostly aggresive while going on defense as needed. Keeping close to him with missile/uncharged shot spam to somewhat counter his own projectile spam. Giving him a chance to dair me then rolling out of the way and punishing with a grab or dash-->upb or usmash. After winning that match I felt pretty good cause I had won vs TL.
Note: I had fought that same TL for about 2 hours straight, won like 2 out of 16 matches. The other match I only won imo cause of lag. That one true win and the experience/knowledge I had gained from the matches made it all worth it though.

Do I have fun with her? Yes I have to admit I am having fun with her for the most part, even when my opponent is above 140% damage.

I love Samus. I switched to maining her from Luigi in late '99 or early '00, that area. Super Metroid is my hands down favorite game of all time, and she's one of my favorite, if not favorite, video game characters. Pretty much what HugS said earlier in the thread. There's really no point in turning back now.

Do I think she'll be anywhere near top tier? No, unless some extremely broken technique to KO like a normal character is discovered, it's highly doubtful.

Low high tier/high mid tier as time passes by and we continue to figure out how she works? It's quite probable.

Do I really care if she's not top tier? I'd be lying if I said I didn't in some way.

So the topic question is. How happy are you with the new Samus?

.It took me about a week to get adjusted to how, for the most part, she works in this game and I love it. It just gets incredibly frustrating trying to KO somebody though where other characters do it easily.

Overall, I would say a 6, probably a 7 on a scale of 10. A lot of that is because of Hylian though. The Samus community as a whole owes him a big thanks imo. I really don't know how he managed to put up with her that first month basically on his own without completely giving up and using G&W or somebody full-time.

I know I bother him on aim on an almost daily basis. Asking him for tips, character specific strategies, what have you and he has shown infinite patience so far. Thank you sir.

Anyway yea, I know that was a big wall of text.

Really guys. It's still early, she's not absolutely terrible and she's not a shallow character. We won't be using her even remotely effectively for at least a year, that I'm sure of. Stick with it.

Wow, great post. And I appriciate the shoutout. I'm sorry if I ignore anyone on aim. People aim me constantly about brawl. I try to respond to all of them though. And make sure you tell me who you are on aim. I forget easily.

 

[hellbourne]

Besides the fact that I have a rough time getting KO's, and her smash moves seem to have very little range now, I really like the new samus.

 

[RaigothDagon]

IMO, someone Godly on the testing crew must have mained Samus, and really dominated with her against the other characters. So they decided to nerf her waaaay farther than was necessary. She is a really irritating character to me now, and somehow, I hate her, but still love her, and can't stop playing as her. Don't know how that happened...

 

[Cynix]

IMO, someone Godly on the testing crew must have mained Samus, and really dominated with her against the other characters. So they decided to nerf her waaaay farther than was necessary. She is a really irritating character to me now, and somehow, I hate her, but still love her, and can't stop playing as her. Don't know how that happened...

ya there is alot of things i dont like about her but for some reason i cant stop playing her because she was my main in n64, and melee so i feel like im letting myself down not continuing to use her haha all you got to do tho is get real good look at hylian hugs and others they pwn with her so just got to get used to her

 

[RaigothDagon]

I've gotten good enough to where I don't lose to any friends, and yes, we are all better than lvl 9 CPUs, but I just don't dominate with her like I used to be able to...

 

[Moon/Sun]

I love the fusion suit though I wouldve liked the actual suit itself as an alt. I dont care what changes they make to her I have and always will main Samus no matter what. The Screw Attack is much better and I can still bomb jump my way back. The down tilt is very pwerful and useful as a killing move or set up for a combo. My only complaint is the switched speed of the missles and the charge shot doesnt seem to travel as fast. I can no longer do my Missle Combo, where I short hop a straight missle and immidietly fire a fully charged shot allowing them to travel together and and connect together against the opponet. I also wish I could switch between Samus and ZSSamus the same way Zelda and Sheik do. Oh well I still like Samus.

Oh yeah her FS is killer!

 

[Red Exodus]

*Uses first aid on thread*

I hate her, I'm trying to deal with this new ****ty Samus but they took everything I used to kick ***.

Worthless Nair
Almost worthless missiles
Severely nerfed bombs
Useless Dsmash
Nerfed Fsmash
Nerfed Ftilt
Completely destroyed dash attack [seriously, wtf]

She sucks long distance and she sucks close range. The only buffs I've seen are her utilt, dtilt, bair and upB. Her Charged shot is kinda neutral since it's faster but weaker. They made her Zair lagless but it's still hardly worth it, they fact that so many people are clinging to zair shows how badly Samus has been nerfed.

She has to be one of the most heavily nerfed characters next to Shiek and Ganon. I don't main Samus anymore because everytime I play her it's sickening and sad at the same time. As far as I'm concerned Samus is not in Brawl.

EDIT: Oh yeah they sped up her roll a tid bit but it doesn't matter because it's still useless, so now every Samus main has to become Aniki or get punished for rolling. WDing brought much needed help to Samus but that's gone and so are her power moves. They didn't even add any other Metroid characters, what a nice way to kick Samus mains and Metroid Fans in the balls.

 

[k4polo]

She sucks long distance and she sucks close range. The only buffs I've seen are her utilt, dtilt, bair and upB. Her Charged shot is kinda neutral since it's faster but weaker. They made her Zair lagless but it's still hardly worth it, they fact that so many people are clinging to zair shows how badly Samus has been nerfed.

It is kinda sad but I partially agree to this.The general public belief is that Samus is like Captain Falcon or Sheik and they have been nerfed hard and that she sucks. I agree with the statement of clinging to Zair though. It is like w/o Zair she would be useless or such. Basically I feel if you beat Zair you defeat a huge part of her game.

But hey it is up to you Samus users to prove people wrong though. Play the underdog role.

 

[SurooshX]

IMO, someone Godly on the testing crew must have mained Samus, and really dominated with her against the other characters. So they decided to nerf her waaaay farther than was necessary. She is a really irritating character to me now, and somehow, I hate her, but still love her, and can't stop playing as her. Don't know how that happened...

Quote For Truth!

 

[Subach]

One of the things I've noticed about Samus is that her lack of wings really belies her ability to get back on the stage. One of Pit's and Meta Knight's big advantages is that they their recoveries cover enough distance to gimp an enemy near the edge of the screen and still be able to return to the stage.

Samus can cover a lot of distance between bomb jumping and the auto sweet spotting grapple.
Her edge-guarding game, as we already know, is quite fierce, but it also has impressive range to boot.
It makes sense balance-wise why her ko-moves don't have much knockback for the precision needed to land them, for against a good Samus, it's a tall order to get back on stage.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

One of Samus's best features is her combo ability, and I think it makes up for her lack of kill power. There are so many ways to rack up damage and to lead into chargeshot.

 

[Red Exodus]

We shouldn't have to rely on charged shots. It's very predictable even though reflective powershielding is gone and after a while no one will for the for charge shot antics unless they are in major hitstun that will allow you to do so. As far as I know hitstun hardly exists in Brawl so it's going to be very hard to get someone to take a charged shots.

Most Samus players understand that charged shots are only good if you use them sparingly, it's fine to keep one loaded to make your opponent more defensive but relying on charged shot kills is a fine way to become predictable.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

We shouldn't have to rely on charged shots. It's very predictable even though reflective powershielding is gone and after a while no one will for the for charge shot antics unless they are in major hitstun that will allow you to do so. As far as I know hitstun hardly exists in Brawl so it's going to be very hard to get someone to take a charged shots.

Most Samus players understand that charged shots are only good if you use them sparingly, it's fine to keep one loaded to make your opponent more defensive but relying on charged shot kills is a fine way to become predictable.

True, but Samus's approach is so good that chargeshots are still very useful.

 

[Subach]

We shouldn't have to rely on charged shots. It's very predictable even though reflective powershielding is gone and after a while no one will for the for charge shot antics unless they are in major hitstun that will allow you to do so. As far as I know hitstun hardly exists in Brawl so it's going to be very hard to get someone to take a charged shots.

Most Samus players understand that charged shots are only good if you use them sparingly, it's fine to keep one loaded to make your opponent more defensive but relying on charged shot kills is a fine way to become predictable.

Zair causes some major hitstun compared to anything else in Brawl, and even a nair can provide an opening due to how quick the charge beam comes out.

 

[Yorenec]

Zair causes some major hitstun compared to anything else in Brawl, and even a nair can provide an opening due to how quick the charge beam comes out.

This.

Zair off the stage to chargeshot as they blow their jump makes up a somewhat fair amount of my kills.

Zair hitstun length at higher percents is borderline ********. Close range zair to chargeshot near the edge of the stage is a very very good finisher. If you nail the timing most people won't have time to react or DI out of it. One of the best things about chargeshot is that it will hit anybody laying down or crawling, even Squirtle.

 

[Subach]

Zair off the stage to chargeshot as they blow their jump makes up a somewhat fair amount of my kills.

Zair hitstun length at higher percents is borderline ********. Close range zair to chargeshot near the edge of the stage is a very very good finisher. If you nail the timing most people won't have time to react or DI out of it. One of the best things about chargeshot is that it will hit anybody laying down or crawling, even Squirtle.

True.

Although I must say that nair to charge shot looks sexier, heh heh.

 

[Rohins]

There's a lot more to do with Samus. I just had a tournament and used her for counter picks. I have some new ideas I want to test. She's definitely not easy to win with due to killing limitations but I see other major advantages.