How do you think Smash 4 could be improved?

[Lola Luftnagle]

I dare say, there are a couple things I think should be improved. Custom specials and Mii hats/outfits should all be available from the start. Grinding for all this is a massive pain.

Make the secret characters available from the start, too. I should not have to fight unlockable characters to unlock them since I hate fighting CPUs (but I unlocked them all and thank god for Ganoncide). I swear, the AI has to be level 9 when I try to unlock them. That reminds me... the CPUs need to be more like Melee's AI.

Finally, bring back hitstun cancelling from Brawl as well as the ability to right oneself while tumbling in midair. Now, I'm still new to Smash U and it sucks that failed techs are much more common than ever.

 

[The*insertage*reviewer]

- No unlockables. All stages, characters and custom moves should be available from beginning.
- Custom moves and all variations of Miis should be legal again.

I know this is an older post, but what is wrong with unlockables? Unlocking what you mentioned is fun, they can motivate you to do certain modes, and they make certain characters and stages feel special as you have to play the game in certain ways to get them.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

I know this is an older post, but what is wrong with unlockables? Unlocking what you mentioned is fun, they can motivate you to do certain modes, and they make certain characters and stages feel special as you have to play the game in certain ways to get them.

That reminds me... Smash 4 could be better off without those damn challenges, especially the ones on the Wii U. I think that some of the rewards you get are not worth the ass-kicking I have to take from CPUs in order to get them. I know I said this in my last post, but I will gladly reiterate: Smash 4 AI needs to be more like Melee's AI. I enjoy how CPUs there have the IQ of a 3-year-old, but in Brawl and 4 they're much more difficult to cheat out of a victory.

Anyways... I only tolerated the CPUs to unlock characters, stages, and some custom special moves here. Now I no longer have to deal with them.

Ooh, and one other thing: the mechanism on finding collectibles. It's not very encouraging when I am on the hunt for all custom special moves and Mii hats/outfits but get the same **** I already have. All this should work similarly to CDs where they stop appearing after you've found them all.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I don't know why I didn't bring this up sooner, but Smash Wii U definitely went overboard with the amount of hard challenges. It's hard enough trying to complete Classic on intensity 9.0, but having to do it without losing "any" lives is just insult to injury. And of course, there's also the no customs challenge, along with completing it solo as Marth within 12 minutes.

 

[prOAPC]

I know this is an older post, but what is wrong with unlockables? Unlocking what you mentioned is fun, they can motivate you to do certain modes, and they make certain characters and stages feel special as you have to play the game in certain ways to get them.

No unlockables make life easier for TOs like me

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

No unlockables make life easier for TOs like me

To be fair, they're not that hard to unlock at all. Getting some stages is another story. Also, the Wii U version made it even easier by giving less unlockable characters(compared to the 3DS version) and lowering the number of battles needed.

As for stages, they're not entirely an issue unless you intend to have a specific random option(in which case you need them all unlocked to do so) or you actually want certain unlockable stages playable in the tourney.

It's not a big pain even with multiple copies of the game when it comes to character unlocking. It was only an issue in Melee and 64. Brawl's SSE was not hard to beat fast and get everyone(the best way to do it since it was also the fastest). Of course, I'm assuming you don't use powersaves/hacks/etc. to quickly get everyone available.

I'd say as long as they do it like in the Wii U version or via Brawl's SSE, which is a very fast option, it's good for TO's. I run tourneys too myself(not as much as I used to, mind you). I found it particularly easy to get everyone overall. Especially due to multiple ways to properly unlock them, not just one option like in 64. Mind you, I didn't deal with multiple copies, but that is barely a pain for me either. Again, beyond 64? There's lots of options. For Melee, I can just use an Action Replay to instantly unlock all important stuff, and then do it again for multiple memory cards. For Brawl, the issue is really that you're going to need people to bring their own copies anyway, so all they have to do is have all the same stages/characters unlocked. Not even a problem at that point, since it's easy. Smash Wii U is the same thing(albeit, a few courses are a slight pain or take a little bit at best).

Now, if you're hosting Smash 64 tourneys in general? That's going to be an actual pain. Not that you can't gameshark everything with a quick unlock too, but that takes a while to setup unless you got multiple copies(but that assumes you also own multiple n64's). Plus, the controllers, which aren't as interchangeable as Melee/Brawl/4(likely why Smash 64 doesn't have as many tourneys. Less accessibility, I guess?).

But yeah, as long as they make it very easy to unlock, players who still enjoy it are fine, and TO's don't need to spend ages on it either(which is currently the case with Smash Wii U. To be fair, Lucina can be annoying to unlock, but beyond that, the rest are fairly easy).

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

Oh, I have a few more improvement ideas!

• Rival Smash need not be in this game. It's bad enough that one has to deal with a never-ending horde of Miis, having to compete against a level 9 CPU-controlled version of yourself makes it even harder to garner a high score.
• Y'all know how in Classic Mode, you have to pay gold to ramp up the difficulty? Well, I have to pay gold to lower the intensity below 2.0. Damn that! I should not have to give up hard earned currency to make the game easier. This should be more like Melee's Classic Mode.
• Event match needs to take away those intrinsically hard-to-meet reward conditions. Right... I could care less about the rewards since most of it's equipment I'll sell afterwards anyway. But hey, if you're a completionist, why not?
• I said this recently, but I'll reiterate: remove the challenges from Wii U Smash! There is too much risk of failure and unnecessary fits of rage. I'd sooner do completely empty sudoku puzzles than give Sakurai the satisfaction. Even if I did want to take on all these tasks, the 2.0 x 10^6 G grand prize is decidedly pointless to me. You'd have received all trophies, CDs, and whatnot long before you get to this point.

Other than that, Smash 4 is the best game I've played since Tekken 3. I just think it should be easier and more lenient for beginners like myself.

 

[MacSmitty]

I'd say buff some of the Final Smashes. Ryu's Shinku Hadouken and both Link's Triforce Slash could use a knockback buff, characters with Transformation Final Smashes should last longer than they do now, especially Lucario's, who doesn't get any additional speed for the power he has, and isn't likely to even kill someone.

I'd also say that DLC characters should've also gotten customs. Ryu, for example, could've gotten Ken's multihitting Shoryuken and Tastumaki and some of the other versions of Hadouken from MVC and other games.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I'd say buff some of the Final Smashes. Ryu's Shinku Hadouken and both Link's Triforce Slash could use a knockback buff, characters with Transformation Final Smashes should last longer than they do now, especially Lucario's, who doesn't get any additional speed for the power he has, and isn't likely to even kill someone.

Oddly, Lucario and Mega Lucario originally had the exact same attributes before software update 1.1.3 was released. But now, Mega Lucario is slower than Lucario at all forms of mobility.

 

[Jeronado]

Better training mode, please! This is killing me, makes trying to lab by yourself a total pain. A record and playback feature would be a godsend but even just being able to turn on and off hitstun viewer, hitbox viewer, Rage, Freshness Bonus, and Staling would be great or even begin able to select DI direction or set it to random.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Give EVERY attack longer recovery, and extend grab range.

There is no reason why every attack in this game needs to be a frame trap. If you whiff an attack or it gets blocked you should be in a punishable state, you should eat an attack for it. You shouldn't be able to just mash another attack and interrupt your opponent's punish attempt. You need to be able to be punished for making mistakes.

Also, Dedede's down-smash needs more range.

 

[JayE]

Give EVERY attack longer recovery, and extend grab range.

There is no reason why every attack in this game needs to be a frame trap. If you whiff an attack or it gets blocked you should be in a punishable state, you should eat an attack for it. You shouldn't be able to just mash another attack and interrupt your opponent's punish attempt. You need to be able to be punished for making mistakes.

Also, Dedede's down-smash needs more range.

Every attack in the game is a frame trap? What? There are frame traps but I don't think every single move is one.

 

[FamilyTeam]

There is no reason why every attack in this game needs to be a frame trap. If you whiff an attack or it gets blocked you should be in a punishable state, you should eat an attack for it. You shouldn't be able to just mash another attack and interrupt your opponent's punish attempt. You need to be able to be punished for making mistakes.

"Safe/Unsafe on block" is an extremely common and basic concept in any fighting game ever made. That is why some moves are specifically designed to be pokes. If you try to punish a move that is supposed to be safe on block, it's your fault, not the game's or the balance's.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

Give EVERY attack longer recovery, and extend grab range.

There is no reason why every attack in this game needs to be a frame trap. If you whiff an attack or it gets blocked you should be in a punishable state, you should eat an attack for it. You shouldn't be able to just mash another attack and interrupt your opponent's punish attempt. You need to be able to be punished for making mistakes.

Also, Dedede's down-smash needs more range.

Right... no need to make everybody for a day. Rather than that, my beloved s could stand a 50% ending lag reduction on their attacks.

• 's smash attacks and special moves should have their recovery frames halved. Similarly, halve the landing lag on and 's respective down aerials.
• 's down smash needs a larger hitbox. This move strangely whiffs in point-blank range.

Also, I feel I have to repeat myself when I say this: if anybody likes creating Mii Fighters and playing around with them the same as me, that all outfits and hats should be available from the start. Now, Sakurai and crew have made the process of unlocking these items needlessly complicated. This is why I can't stand Sakurai sometimes.

Okay, rant over.

 

[PsychoJosh]

"Safe/Unsafe on block" is an extremely common and basic concept in any fighting game ever made. That is why some moves are specifically designed to be pokes. If you try to punish a move that is supposed to be safe on block, it's your fault, not the game's or the balance's.

In this game, it'd be easier to count the number of attacks that AREN'T safe on block. Most attacks cannot be punished on reaction to a whiff or a block. So no, it is not my fault, it is the game's fault that whenever I try to punish a blocked aerial from Mario with a grab out of shield I eat one of his mashed out smash attacks. I have to tiptoe around the fact that everyone has frame advantage on nearly every attack and it's a really annoying way to play.

 

[FamilyTeam]

In this game, it'd be easier to count the number of attacks that AREN'T safe on block. Most attacks cannot be punished on reaction to a whiff or a block. So no, it is not my fault, it is the game's fault that whenever I try to punish a blocked aerial from Mario with a grab out of shield I eat one of his mashed out smash attacks.

Smashes in general are not safe on block. Not even Mario's Up Smash in a few circumstances, much less his Down Smash. If you block it, even if you get pushed back a bit, you can likely still punish it with most things if you are fast enough or just have a ranged move.
A lot of stuff is not safe on block in this game, even if you don't realise it.

 

[Sean²]

Make defensive options less rewarding so approaching is easier. I'm sick of the metagame being "inch closer and closer and wait for a mistake". I want to be able to run in and go haam, and have them be able to go haam on me if I make a mistake. Defensive options should be viable but more balanced with offensive options.

I'm sick of trying to play, then realizing why I stop playing for long periods of time any more because of this by game 3. Most of the time I just stand still and do nothing while watching a pure melee character on autopilot trying to wall me out.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

I've got another one: no attack in this game should have sweetspots or sourspots. Have you ever hit with 's f-air or b-air and not get the wonderful damage or, say, the solid knockback of 's smash attacks? Meteor smashes, despite being inherently slow, sure would be better without sweetspots. Everything needs to do its maximum damage and meteor smashes should always spike like they're supposed to.

 

[FamilyTeam]

I've got another one: no attack in this game should have sweetspots or sourspots. Have you ever hit with 's f-air or b-air and not get the wonderful damage or, say, the solid knockback of 's smash attacks? Meteor smashes, despite being inherently slow, sure would be better without sweetspots. Everything needs to do its maximum damage and meteor smashes should always spike like they're supposed to.

...This'd destroy the game, frankly. Marth (or Lucina really) with a constant tipper would be a character that would KO anything at 90% maximum. Zelda only having the strong hit of her lightning kick would also be kind of insane, it wouldn't totally break her, but just one effortless strike of that move would down anybody at 70% for free. You can give anybody that much power without having a catch.
What would we get if we had sweetspots only, anyway?

 

[Deleted member]

Buff all the super heavyweights besides Bowser. There, done.

 

[McDeathstrider]

Personally, If they are going to improve it, bring back Icies and put a newcomer in there, like King K Rool or something. Maybe bring back wolf or something too

 

[Matt11111]

Buff all the super heavyweights besides Bowser. There, done.

I dunno man, DK is pretty solid too.

 

[lucasfan3068]

Well idk I,don't think anyone of the heavy weights should be buffed.

 

[Deleted member]

I dunno man, DK is pretty solid too.

That's what very few of us think. Everyone says DK is extremely flawed and does not belong in mid tier. I disagree with them. DK is far from horrible, but still needs buffs.

 

[lucasfan3068]

Well I can see where your coming from but I think the biggest reason people say that is really that DK will almost always go fore a spike but yeah he definitely needs buffed

 

[Deleted member]

Well idk I,don't think anyone of the heavy weights should be buffed.

Three of the five are bottom tier, and (besides DDD) are better than people think.

 

[lucasfan3068]

Well yes but I think the only reason they are there is because of recovery. I mean think about it dedede is so much better on tier lists because of his super dedede jump.

 

[Nah]

problem with the super-heavyweights and some other characters is that their basic design does not ultimately work in this game

you could buff them in a way that would make them high tier yeah, but the only way to do so would end up making them either a) not them, or b) completely and utterly unfun to play against, both in a casual and competitive setting

conversely, characters like Sheik can never be anything but really good unless you violently gut them to the point where they're straight up terrible

 

[lucasfan3068]

Ok so I completely agree with you. If we buffed the super heavy weights it would be very unjoyfull to play against those characters.

 

[Deleted member]

I see what you mean. Ganondorf with Sonic's playstyle isn't really Ganondorf, is it?

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Buff all the super heavyweights besides Bowser. There, done.

IMO, just buff half the cast:

Example:
Huge buffs:

Significant buffs:

Minor buffs:

 

[Deleted member]

Are Falco and Jr. really that bad? Especially Falco, since I still can't believe his tier placement.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Well yes but I think the only reason they are there is because of recovery. I mean think about it dedede is so much better on tier lists because of his super dedede jump.

Sadly, a long ranged recovery isn't exactly enough, and Super Dedede Jump is a Counter opportunity attack, so you have to be careful if you're up against anyone who has Counter or a similar attack.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Are Falco and Jr. really that bad? Especially Falco, since I still can't believe his tier placement.

Yeah, nowadays he kinda is considered bottom of the barrel, sadly.

 

[Deleted member]

Sadly, a long ranged recovery isn't exactly enough, and Super Dedede Jump is a Counter opportunity attack, so you have to be careful if you're up against anyone who has Counter or a similar attack.

Cancelling the Jump halfway doesn't really help either. Maybe unless you hit a ledge, you're not gonna land without getting hit.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Cancelling the Jump halfway doesn't really help either. Maybe unless you hit a ledge, you're not gonna land without getting hit.

Aiming for the ledge is often the way to go against Counter users. But even if there aren't any, upon slamming the ground, Dedede does leave himself vulnerable long enough to get punished.

 

[McDeathstrider]

Cancelling the Jump halfway doesn't really help either. Maybe unless you hit a ledge, you're not gonna land without getting hit.

Super DDD Jump is also very easy to see coming anyway. You could easily trump it or if they go past the ledge, you could get them on the landing (tfw you get starred)

 

[lucasfan3068]

If you cancel the slamming part of super dedede jump (unless you tech) you will take a while to get back to fighting.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

Smash 4 sure would be better off without equipment. Anyone who has played this game (especially competitive players) knows that the characters are fine just the way they are. Players were content playing their main characters without power-ups and **** in the past. Why would that change now?

Right... anyone crying about so-and-so needing to be buffed, you may as well cut your losses and use equipment. That's as close as you're going to get to buffing anyone. Update patches are no longer.


Something else to improve Smash 4, and I can't believe I'm saying this: make better Mii costumes! Honestly, a costume on ? Redundant, wouldn't ya think? I think Asuka Kazama's schoolgirl outfit would be a better Mii costume than those, even the Heihachi costume. The business suit is kinda nice (and it was worth my three quarters) but I think it could've had a knee-length skirt for female Miis.

One more thing: put in a stage with a see-saw or scale-like platform. Now, this is for Wii U version only, kids. I'd like a reliable way to compare weights of my Miis to other characters. I just can't get that on Garden of Hope or Woolly World.

 

[Matt11111]

Smash 4 sure would be better off without equipment. Anyone who has played this game (especially competitive players) knows that the characters are fine just the way they are. Players were content playing their main characters without power-ups and **** in the past. Why would that change now?

Right... anyone crying about so-and-so needing to be buffed, you may as well cut your losses and use equipment. That's as close as you're going to get to buffing anyone. Update patches are no longer.


Something else to improve Smash 4, and I can't believe I'm saying this: make better Mii costumes! Honestly, a costume on ? Redundant, wouldn't ya think? I think Asuka Kazama's schoolgirl outfit would be a better Mii costume than those, even the Heihachi costume. The business suit is kinda nice (and it was worth my three quarters) but I think it could've had a knee-length skirt for female Miis.

One more thing: put in a stage with a see-saw or scale-like platform. Now, this is for Wii U version only, kids. I'd like a reliable way to compare weights of my Miis to other characters. I just can't get that on Garden of Hope or Woolly World.

Well, no one ever said you NEEDED to use equipment, and you can't even use custom characters in certain modes, like For Glory and Home Run Contest. I for one love playing with customs on with my friends for a few matches at a time, just to see things like if a fast Bowser beats a strong Bowser (The answer, whichever one I'm playing. ). Also, it's just really fun putting some equipment on your main, going into Training Mode, and see how broken you made your character.