How do you think Smash 4 could be improved?

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Smash 4 sure would be better off without equipment. Anyone who has played this game (especially competitive players) knows that the characters are fine just the way they are. Players were content playing their main characters without power-ups and **** in the past. Why would that change now?

Right... anyone crying about so-and-so needing to be buffed, you may as well cut your losses and use equipment. That's as close as you're going to get to buffing anyone. Update patches are no longer.

Some people heavily beg to differ with this statement. At least it's now possible to hack the game, though you can't use the hacks online without a ban risk.

Besides, some things can't be made better with equipment (such as Duck Hunt's Wild Gunman), and another thing to keep in mind is that Final Smashes temporarily disable equipment for the user.

 

[Spurdo]

Less characters. This game is a mess.


then again, it doesn't really matter because a majority of the cast isn't worth using compared to the top characters. It's better to have a small metagame imo

 

[FamilyTeam]

Less characters. This game is a mess.


then again, it doesn't really matter because a majority of the cast isn't worth using compared to the top characters. It's better to have a small metagame imo

This game's meta is far more diverse than the previous game's. Pretty much all of the Top 30 are worth using and have one or more solid reps.

 

[Deleted member]

Less characters. This game is a mess.


then again, it doesn't really matter because a majority of the cast isn't worth using compared to the top characters. It's better to have a small metagame imo

So we're just gonna ignore the mid-to-bottom tiers? They are still usable, as long as you know what you're doing.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

So we're just gonna ignore the mid-to-bottom tiers? They are still usable, as long as you know what you're doing.

Even then, some of the less fortunate characters could use improvements at some areas.

 

[Deleted member]

Even then, some of the less fortunate characters could use improvements at some areas.

As well as some of the better characters. Cloud is one major example.

 

[FamilyTeam]

As well as some of the better characters. Cloud is one major example.

Cloud could use improvements?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

As well as some of the better characters. Cloud is one major example.

Although I did do a small buff to Cloud's weight, I didn't touch anything else, since Limit Break already boosts all of his mobility attributes.

But in regards to characters who would really go for buffs, Zelda, Palutena, and Duck Hunt are a few notable examples. I've already mentioned about buffing Wild Gunman for Duck Hunt. As for Palutena, making her f-tilt deliver stronger knockback would compensate for its start-up lag, and buffing Counter's base knockback and knockback growth can make it be a much more rewarding attack if Palutena blocks a powerful attack. Zelda is pretty much a mess with some of her moves, but a few ways to fix her is removing the sourspots from Din's Fire, and increase the amount of sweetspot frames for her f-air and b-air.

For some other notable characters, Dr. Mario could warrant receiving improvements to his mobility, while Ganondorf could ask for better travel distance for his Dark Dive. Charizard could go for better air speed, since Flare Blitz isn't exactly a safe way to recover. Similarly, better air speed for Corrin would help with his mediocre recovery, and frankly, his walking and running never deserved to be nerfed; Corrin's walk speed was originally 1.2, while his run speed was originally 1.5.

 

[Deleted member]

Although I did do a small buff to Cloud's weight, I didn't touch anything else, since Limit Break already boosts all of his mobility attributes.

But in regards to characters who would really go for buffs, Zelda, Palutena, and Duck Hunt are a few notable examples. I've already mentioned about buffing Wild Gunman for Duck Hunt. As for Palutena, making her f-tilt deliver stronger knockback would compensate for its start-up lag, and buffing Counter's base knockback and knockback growth can make it be a much more rewarding attack if Palutena blocks a powerful attack. Zelda is pretty much a mess with some of her moves, but a few ways to fix her is removing the sourspots from Din's Fire, and increase the amount of sweetspot frames for her f-air and b-air.

For some other notable characters, Dr. Mario could warrant receiving improvements to his mobility, while Ganondorf could ask for better travel distance for his Dark Dive. Charizard could go for better air speed, since Flare Blitz isn't exactly a safe way to recover. Similarly, better air speed for Corrin would help with his mediocre recovery, and frankly, his walking and running never deserved to be nerfed; Corrin's walk speed was originally 1.2, while his run speed was originally 1.5.

If we're talking mobility buffs, King Dedede also deserves a mention. His air speed could be faster, and maybe do something about Super Dedede Jump, or is that already good enough?

 

[FamilyTeam]

Yes, but I still really am confused. You think Cloud needs a buff?
I'm not even the kind that thinks he is Top 5, but even then, that idea seems weird.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, but I still really am confused. You think Cloud needs a buff?
I'm not even the kind that thinks he is Top 5, but even then, that idea seems weird.

I meant in the recovery department, Limit or not.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

I may have said this a few times recently in other threads but these folks need to program a Level 10 for the CPUs. I think that if you are a completionist of this game y'all want a very nasty challenge. Also, they should add an intensity 10 to Classic Mode (same as intensity 9.0 but the opponents and bosses give 50% more knockback and 1.5x damage to the player), an option of Very Hard for All-Star and Event Mode, 500-Man Smash, and a 15-Minute Smash.

 

[FamilyTeam]

I meant in the recovery department, Limit or not.

Right now having a bad recovery is what keeps him in check. Ever since people found out he can't tech during his recovery, some that used to complain a lot about him find him slightly more tolerable.

 

[AuraBreak]

Similarly, better air speed for Corrin would help with his mediocre recovery, and frankly, his walking and running never deserved to be nerfed; Corrin's walk speed was originally 1.2, while his run speed was originally 1.5.

Y'all are absolutely WACK if you think any Top 15-20 character like Corrin needs any changes in this metagame.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Y'all are absolutely WACK if you think any Top 15-20 character like Corrin needs any changes in this metagame.

I'm already content with the nerf to Counter Surge. It's just the mobility nerfs that make no sense, especially since one of the nerfs did make his already mediocre recovery slightly worse.

It should also be noted that Mario is ranked higher than Corrin, and he has a 1.15 air speed value. But despite this pro, his recovery still has its share of problems, which includes limited range with his Super Jump Punch. Corrin would have a similar dilemma if his air speed was set to 1.15, but he also falls faster than Mario (1.65 vs. 1.5).

 

[lordvaati]

Less characters. This game is a mess.


then again, it doesn't really matter because a majority of the cast isn't worth using compared to the top characters. It's better to have a small metagame imo

We're talking about Smash 4 here, not MvC2. the overall balance is fair, as unlike prior games the top tiers don't completely shut down the cast as bad as before.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

During one's failure moments in the Solo modes, there ought to be a background with laughing at your failure while the game transitions you back to the CSS. If you fail events in event mode, Target Blast bomb blows up in your face, a score of 0 in Home Run Contest, be defeated in All-Star/Classic/Crazy Orders/Master Orders, you hear the annoying laugh. That tells you: "Better try harder, boy!" How do I come up with these things?

 

[Deleted member]

During one's failure moments in the Solo modes, there ought to be a background with laughing at your failure while the game transitions you back to the CSS. If you fail events in event mode, Target Blast bomb blows up in your face, a score of 0 in Home Run Contest, be defeated in All-Star/Classic/Crazy Orders/Master Orders, you hear the annoying laugh. That tells you: "Better try harder, boy!" How do I come up with these things?

That'll end up causing multiple consoles to break due to rage. XD

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

I think some attacks need cool-looking effects:
's Shield breaker, 4th hit angled-down or forward in Dancing Blade, Dolphin Slash and Counter inflicts electricity damage.
's Mechakoopa and Abandon Ship I'd love to see do darkness damage.
's up-smash does darkness damage.
's moves that inflict fire damage deal darkness damage instead.

 

[_Jack_]

I think we need one last balance patch. I know patches are a thing of the past, but I think the already great balance of this game could be made even better with one final patch. Remove some of the questionable decisions regarding the top tiers and buff the lower tiers:

Buffs:


The only one of these characters I feel I know well enough to give actual fair and specific buffs to is Shulk, so...

Spoiler

- Make Jab come out on Frame 4 instead of Frame 5 and rework it so that floaties can't fall out of it. This gives him a quick grounded option to work with. Shulk's jab is already the most damaging, non-infinite jab in the game as long as he doesn't have Shield or Smash active and it's range is good, so that's why I'd say Frame 4 instead of Frame 3. We wouldn't want to risk Shulk's meta to be demoted to simply jabbing over and over again. In addition to this, the hitboxes and timing should be reworked so that floaties can't escape the third hit so easily.

- Make F-Tilt come out on frame 9 (3 frames earlier), U-Tilt come out on frame 10 (1 frame earlier), and D-Tilt come out on Frame 8 (2 frames earlier). I feel they are too weak for how long they take to come out, but making them much faster isn't a good idea due to their behemoth range. F-Tilt gets the biggest improvement due to the fact that it is, in my opinion, the most situational of his tilts at the moment. It could now possibly be used as a way to punish approaches and rack up damage. U-Tilt got the smallest buff due to how amazing of an anti-air it is. The very slight increase in startup will allow it to start hitting opponents slightly lower than before, giving Shulk and easier time catching short characters' short hop aerials. D-Tilt got the middle buff. It's now a move that is extremely quick for the amount of range it has, but is pretty weak.

- Reduce F-Tilt's KBG in order to compensate for the better frame data. It wouldn't be missed too much. I tend to kill the most with Shulk off of edgeguards, Smash Art throws, or landing a hit with Smash Art. I rarely see Shulks kill with this move either. Sacrificing an extremely situational kill tool is more than worth better frame data in my book.

- Give F-Tilt and U-Tilt less ending lag. These are tilts, not Smash attacks. Let's make them a bit quicker, shall we?

- Make Dash Attack start up somewhere between Frame 12-13 instead of Frame 15 and slightly reduce the ending lag. It's a kill move, so we can't make it too fast, but I feel speeding it up a little bit couldn't hurt. Also, rework the hitboxes to remove the blind spots on it. This move tends to miss a lot more than it should.

- Give the first hit of F-Smash transcendent priority so that it can't trade with jabs. There is absolutely no reason why this buff shouldn't have happened. You want to know why? Because, not only does the first hit of Up Smash HAVE transcendent priority, it has also had it since the VANILLA GAME! What?! This makes absolutely no sense! Why would you give one transcendent priority and not the other, Sakurai? They are basically the same exact move except, in one, the Monado is horizontal and, in the other, the Monado is vertical. Why would they both not have transcendent priority? Heck, even if the development team accidentally forgot to do this, they could've easily added it in another patch. But, no. They didn't. Instead, we get an extra 0.5% on all of our moves.Thanks, Sakurai...

- Give the sixth hit of Down Smash a hitbox. Now, we're getting into the other, much less talked about reason why Shulk is low tier: his poor hitboxes. A lot of Shulk's hitboxes don't match the actual attack animations. As a result, sometimes, during an attack, the Monado will slice through opponents and absolutely nothing will happen. They'll just stand there all normally as if a sword isn't being stabbed through their body. This is because the hitboxes on the attack have gone away, despite the animation suggesting otherwise. Shulk's Down Smash is a great example of this. By looking at the attack, it appears Shulk swings the Monado around him and hits opponents six times, three on each side of him. However, the final hit in back of him has absolutely no hitbox attached to it what-so-ever. It's essentially just fancy looking endlag. Give this sixth hit a hitbox. There is no reason why it shouldn't have one. If the move was supposed to have five hits, then the animation would only show five hits. Besides, by adding this sixth hit and increasing the length of the attack, this would cut down the attack's endlag, too.

- Give ALL moves hitboxes that properly match their animations. This is one of my biggest pet peeves in all of Smash. It isn't just Shulk who has this issue. Zelda has it. Samus has it, but used to have it much worse. Mewtwo used to have it way worse than anybody before he got buffed. It's just infuriating to see characters suffer from this because it's really poor game design. These fancy animations are supposed to show us where and when an attack is hitting so we can either try to hit our opponents with it or avoid it ourselves. The hitboxes and animations need to match up with one another. It's so lazy of the developers to let stuff like this into the final game AND do nothing about it with the patches. We shouldn't have to hack your game and install hitbox mods just to see when and where our attacks hit. That's what the animations are for. Shulk has this all over the place. It needs to get fixed and not just for him. For everybody. It's unfair to the players of these characters to have to put up with this when we've spent our good money on your game. Fix this issue that should've been fixed long before this game released.

- Give all of Shulk's aerials the ability to autocancel. So, we go from one pet peeve to another: Shulk's autocancel windows, or lack thereof. Shulk is the ONLY character in Smash 4 who cannot autocancel any of his aerials. His fastest cancelling aerial is forward aerial which cancels from frame 57 onwards... a full 15 frames after you can act out of it with another move. The other four are absolutely embarrassing. Neutral aerial cancels from frame 80 onwards, back aerial and up aerial both cancel from frame 79 onwards, and down aerial cancels from frame 78 onwards. You want to know how long that is? It's so long that Shulk can preform the attack, put the Monado on his back, and reenter his generic falling animation. However, even at this point, it still isn't enough. If you touch the ground too quickly, the Monado will magically warp into Shulk's hands as he takes landing lag. Really, Sakurai? I'm not saying we need Cloud level autocancels here. Remember, we still have MALLC. However, reasonable autocancels aren't too much to ask. Frame 80 is absolutely absurd. Just make it so that when Shulk puts the Monado on his back, he can actually land on the ground without it magically teleporting into his hands and forcing him to take landing lag.

- Make Neutral Air start up at Frame 7 and allow it to be interrupted quicker. Neutral air is a very solid move. It has a lingering hitbox that covers a very wide area. It's a useful combo starter and it's ten frames of landing lag make it very hard to punish. However, the move still has its issues. First of all, it's startup. This move has the same range as Cloud's neutral aerial and it does either 0.5% more or 0.5% less damage (without art modifications) depending on how you space it. However, Cloud's NAir starts up at frame 5 while Shulk's starts up at frame 13... Yep... Balance. So, let's fix that up. We'll make NAir come out at frame 7. While this may seem a little fast for how Shulk is supposed to be designed, I don't think it is. Remember, the hitbox starts behind Shulk, meaning a lot more time is going to pass before it reaches in front of him. Besides, it's not like it's an extremely powerful move and it has the worst range of all of Shulk's aerials. In addition to that, make this move be able to be interrupted quicker. It shouldn't be practically a death sentence to perform it offstage.

- Make Forward, Up, and Down Air start up at Frame 12-13. Frame 14 seems a very tad bit slow for all of these attacks. Giving them a good 1-2 frames of decreased startup should help a bit. They can't start up too quick, though, because their range is absolutely extreme.

- Improve Up and Down Air so that they link together better. This may be hard to do, as the fact that Shulk is moving is often what causes opponents to pop out of the attack between the first and second hits. However, the increased duration of the first hit that would come from the hitbox fixing buff could help. Maybe give the hitboxes slightly more horizontal coverage in order to help.

- Give Shulk increased Aerial Acceleration and Velocity when under the effects of Jump Art. This is one of those things that I don't get how it wasn't actually put into the game. Jump Art allows Shulk to move through the air better. So, increase his aerial acceleration and velocity to give him the ability to have a better influence over his direction while in mid-air.

- Allow Back Slash to ledge sweetspot. It sucks when I want to put on an art as I come back to the stage and I accidentally hold forward too much, causing me to hear that dreaded cry of "BACK SLASH!" and watch as Shulk plummets to his doom. I'm not the only one who's had experiences with this. Everybody knows that this can't sweetspot the ledge because everybody has tried it.

- Make Back Slash Great Again! I loved Back Slash in Xenoblade. But, it kind of sucks in Smash. It requires a huge amount of precise timing and luck to hit an opponent's back. However, the front hit just doesn't have enough oomph to justify going for it. I'm not really sure how you'd fix it. You could go the making it more powerful route or you could go the decreasing the lag route. Just make it more useful, though.

- Completely stop opponents when they get countered by Vision AND make Shulk hover during aerial Vision. Currently, when Shulk counters an opponent with Vision, they continue to move very slowly (as if they were in Witch Time) as he strikes. However, this can lead to some issues, especially in the air. Whenever I counter in the air, I find that my opponent tends to move out of the way of my attack due to a combination of gravity and the momentum that they already have. This shouldn't be the case. I expect to be rewarded by reading an opponent and countering it. In addition to that, Shulk's counter is extremely good for mindgames due to just how long it stays out. So, this is my solution. Completely stopping the opponent when they get visioned would prevent them from slipping out of the attack's way and causing Shulk to ignore gravity during the attack while in the air would prevent him from falling out of the way. Therefore, there's no issues with missing.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

• Smash 4 can be improved by removing Target Blast from this game altogether. I say this because the player has significantly less control than with Target Smash. Once that damn bomb is launched, the control is completely out of your hands and you have to wait and see what happens. It will not always be a good outcome. The time spent creating Target Blast could have been better spent on the return of , or bringing forth newcomers like Viridi or Ashley.
• Trophy Rush and Mii Fighters should be removed from this game altogether. I really love the Miis I've created, but all they're good for is creating crude likenesses of one's dream character(s). Trophy Rush is a perceived-redundant mode to collect trophies, so why do players bother with it when they can go to the trophy shop and buy the damn trophies? Replace those elements with a Custom Parts Shop, where y'all can use gold to buy special moves.
• Bring back Brawl's stage Builder while retaining the stage parts here. I cannot make a simple platform without this game giving me bull**** (which is why I never bother creating a stage anymore).

Those are my ideas for improving Smash 4 and I'm sticking to them.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Smashes in general are not safe on block. Not even Mario's Up Smash in a few circumstances, much less his Down Smash. If you block it, even if you get pushed back a bit, you can likely still punish it with most things if you are fast enough or just have a ranged move.
A lot of stuff is not safe on block in this game, even if you don't realise it.

I don't think you understand what I mean. I just played a match where I was Donkey Kong against a Ryu. He was charging up a smash in the wrong direction, and I decided to go after him with a dash attack. yet he still managed to release the smash AND block my dash attack even though I was on top of him and input the dash attack BEFORE he released his smash.

This isn't the first time something like this has happened. Something is definitely screwy with the frame timings in this game. Either recovery frames are too short or you're able to cancel them with a shield? In any case, I don't think it should be that way. Something should be fixed about them.

 

[FamilyTeam]

I don't think you understand what I mean. I just played a match where I was Donkey Kong against a Ryu. He was charging up a smash in the wrong direction, and I decided to go after him with a dash attack. yet he still managed to release the smash AND block my dash attack even though I was on top of him and input the dash attack BEFORE he released his smash.

This isn't the first time something like this has happened. Something is definitely screwy with the frame timings in this game. Either recovery frames are too short or you're able to cancel them with a shield? In any case, I don't think it should be that way. Something should be fixed about them.

Ryu's Side Smash has a FAF of 46 in Smash 4, and about 28 frames of endlag to be punished, That is par for the course for any Smash attack in this entire series. it's always between 25 to 40 frames of endlag, look it up.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Ryu's Side Smash has a FAF of 46 in Smash 4, and about 28 frames of endlag to be punished, That is par for the course for any Smash attack in this entire series. it's always between 25 to 40 frames of endlag, look it up.

Why is he able to release it and still block in time before my attack hits him? This isn't the first time this has happened, I've played matchups against other characters too where the same thing happened.

This isn't the case in the other games. If someone smashes in the wrong direction they eat a dash attack without question. They don't recover in time to block.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Here is the FAF of a bunch of Side Smashes from popular characters throughout the series:
: 41 (25 frames to punish)
: 48 (31 frames to punish)
: 48 (35 frames to punish)
: 52 (39 frames to punish)
: 60 (39 frames to punish)
: 60 (38 frames to punish)
: 39 (17 frames to punish)
: 46 (31 frames to punish)

In a lot of cases, you have even more time to punish these moves in Smash 4. Ths doesn't change much between the other moves, I am afraid. Like I said, it's often between 25-40 frames throughout the series.
This currently seems like a PEBCAC issue as of now more than anything.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

It would be nice to move the blast lines farther out. The horizontal blast lines should be three times farther from the stage. Upper blast line should be twice as far from above the stage.

I say this 'cause the very light fighters need more survivability, most notably or .

 

[MarioManTAW]

It would be nice to move the blast lines farther out. The horizontal blast lines should be three times farther from the stage. Upper blast line should be twice as far from above the stage.

I say this 'cause the very light fighters need more survivability, most notably or .

I disagree. Some stages might could be like this (like Dream Land is), but if all the stages were like this, the meta and the balance of the game as a whole would be significantly altered.
-Characters who struggle to kill now would exponentially more so with this system, possibly only through gimps, thus moving characters like significantly lower on the tier list.
-Characters who excel at recovering back to the stage would significantly rise on the tier list. While this would improve the viability of , it would also benefit some good characters to the point of being unbalanced ( would be top tier, possibly the best in the game).
-Matches would take longer. While this isn't necessarily a bad thing, it could make the game uninteresting to watch, especially for non-players.
-Kill %s drastically increase. This means that moves that kill confirm at current kill %s might not even connect at those high %s.
-Heavyweights drastically rise on the tier list, because they survive even longer and can kill earlier.
-Characters who rely on offstage combos to kill off the side blastzone would in most cases ( being the only possible exceptions) no longer be able to do so.

All these things would lead to a far slower and far more gimp-heavy meta, with the tier list drastically altered.

(Still disagree? I made a mod like that and you could try it for yourself. http://gamebanana.com/maps/193328 If you want, we could play on Wi-Fi.)

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

It appears a lot of y'all want to see certain characters buffed. Well, I'm going to ride on that same boat and propose a few:

• and respective aerials (most notably b-air and d-air) needs their landing recovery reduced by 75%.
  
• 's Flare Blitz needs its recovery frames reduced by 75% so he has a good shot at recovering to the stage.
  
• 's up-B and down-B covers triple the normal distance for stage recovery. Oh, and Doc could use more air speed; make it equal to 's.
  
• 's smash attacks have their recovery frames halved and inflict darkness damage.
  
• 's Blade Counter needs 10 units more BKB and KBG so that it scores the kills just a hair faster than or 's.
  
• 's up-B should have the ability to be cancelled like 's.

I also have a few unusual and wacky ideas for DLC Mii costumes: Asuka Kazama's schoolgirl outfit for female s, Pan-Am stewardess uniform for female s, and, oh idk, Samurai Goroh or Gray Fox outfit for any gender .

Other than that, that's all the improvement suggestions I have. Smash 4 just has so many good things going for it, I can imagine myself continuing to play this in my fifties and beyond.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

• Oh, and Doc could use more air speed; make it equal to 's.

If Doc had that, he'd be instanced top tier.

I FULLY SUPPORT THIS.

 

[Nathan Richardson]

Hrmm if anything I think smash 4 could use better web connectivity similar to splatoon, people keep quitting due to lag.

 

[lordvaati]

Hrmm if anything I think smash 4 could use better web connectivity similar to splatoon, people keep quitting due to lag.

news has teased of another update that's supposed to tweak the online a bit(bringing back old challenges and the like) so maybe they could that as well.

 

[MacSmitty]

I'd say changing how things work when attacks trade. I can't count how many times I've been punished for using a regular attack on a Smash attack, and the animation gives the opponent enough time to kill me, which isn't even fair.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

I say, what a hot topic this is. I've got some more ideas to buff .

• Should the Luma be defeated, Rosalina's moves take on the BKB and KBG values of Luma's attacks until another Luma shows up. And at this time, her smash attacks do electrical or darkness damage at random while aerials produce rainbow-colored flame-like energy similar to 's good aura.
• F-air and b-air needs their recovery frames reduced by 75%.
• Luma should come in four more colors: pink, purple, black, and white.
• Make 's air speed equal to .
• Luma Shot paralyzes foes on hit.
• Increase her weight by 30 units.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I say, what a hot topic this is. I've got some more ideas to buff .

• Should the Luma be defeated, Rosalina's moves take on the BKB and KBG values of Luma's attacks until another Luma shows up. And at this time, her smash attacks do electrical or darkness damage at random while aerials produce rainbow-colored flame-like energy similar to 's good aura.
• F-air and b-air needs their recovery frames reduced by 75%.
• Luma should come in four more colors: pink, purple, black, and white.
• Make 's air speed equal to .
• Luma Shot paralyzes foes on hit.
• Increase her weight by 30 units.

I mentioned about buffing Rosalina's air speed (tied with Mewtwo), but I often got scolded for that. You'll most likely receive a lot of hate for saying that stuff, because there's a lot of hate on the Luma for its knockback strength being able to wipe out opponents easily once the rage mechanic kicks in.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

I've got improvement ideas for :

• Exploding Side Kick's start-up and recovery frames are halved and does darkness damage.
• Burning Dropkick does darkness damage.
• The kick from Feint Jump needs to meteor smash like 's while being less of a pain to land.
• Up-air's recovery frames should be decreased by 30%. I'd envision with 's easy-bake combo from way back when.
• N-air should be more similar to .
• Now throws: forward throw does the damage of 's, back-throw with the knockback of 's, up-throw similar to or , and down-throw shares 's d-throw animation ('cause I think it looks cool).

 

[_Jack_]

I have a very useful and solid buff for and

PK Thunder isn't counted by the game as a projectile until AFTER the tail is out of their heads. I've spent a lot of time trying to brainstorm a fair buff to PK Thunder that can make Ness and Lucas' recoveries less exploitable. The fact that you can literally reflect, Gravitational Pull, and Pocket PK Thunder the frame it comes out, even before Ness and Lucas can try to recover, and put the two into helplessness is wack. This is an issue that really needs some fixing, especially for Ness. It's more of an issue for him because Lucas' PK Thunder goes a significantly longer distance (meaning you can just go to the bottom of the screen and recover before the opponent can get down there to snatch up your PK Thunder) and he has a tether. Giving a character a bad recovery is one thing because it's often for the sake of balance. However, not even giving a character a chance to recover is another. And, this is coming from a Rosa main who has sent many Nesses and Lucases to their demise with Gravitational Pull. However, on the flip side, you can't just go and make PK Thunder unable to be influenced by reflectors, absorbers, etc. because, just like it's not good to not even give a character a chance to recover against these moves, it's also not good to give a character a projectile that just ignores these moves that are designed to beat projectiles.
So, I was a little stumped on how to change the move in order to actually give Ness and Lucas a chance to recover against GP and Pocket while, at the same time, not making PK Thunder overpowered. Eventually, this got me thinking of the changes to make Ness' PK Thunder better in transition from Brawl to Smash 4. As you know, Ness's PK Thunder disappears once it hits something while Lucas' doesn't. Prior to Smash 4, Ness' PK Thunder would disappear if it ran into something at ANY time. This lead to characters with good recoveries simply being able to go out, hover over Ness, get hit by PK Thunder when it comes out of his head, and send him to his death. However, they made a change to the move that helps prevent this strategy. They made it so that, while the tail of PK Thunder is still inside of Ness' head, it will travel through opponents like Lucas'. As a result, this strategy is now a relic of the past. Based on this, I thought of an idea. What if, while PK Thunder's tail was inside Ness's/Lucas' head, it also couldn't be reflected, absorbed, pocketed, etc.? That way, characters like Villager and Rosalina can't just pocket/GP PK Thunder and gimp Ness/Lucas for free, but can still pocket/GP it after the tail is out of their heads.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

needs the following buffs:

• Halved recovery frames on smash attacks
• Throws take on the BKB and KBG values of 's
• The power hit on Blurring Blade is guaranteed after the barrage of stabs while having half of its recovery frames
• Shuriken of Light inflicts random status effects like fire, electricity, or darkness
• Airborne Assault and Slash Launcher never leave players in free-fall
• Hero's Spin, when used in the air, travels as far as 's but connects reliably while being a finisher like 's up-B
• Power Thrust meteor smashes when used in the air; it also does darkness damage, and takes on the base knockback of 's Electroshock Arm

can stand the following buffs:

• All of his/her attacks that do fire damage do darkness damage instead.
• F-smash does damage similar to 's f-smash, but I'm cool with the knockback values here.
• Up-air should have the landing lag of 's up-air and do damage like 's.
• Charge Blast paralyzes like 's neutral-b and it can stand to share the knockback values of that move, too.
• Laser Blaze flinches, the same as 's.
• Flame Pillar, be more in line with 's Arcfire (hit multiple times with a launcher at the end)
• Stealth Burst should be like 's Psystrike but is not a Final Smash
• Arm Rocket works the same way as 's up-B
• Cannon Uppercut gives triple recovery distance, hits multiple times and does large knockback like 's Piston Punch.

 

[FunAtParties]

I'm just going to list some things I think would make the game better, and see how it goes.

Basic stuff:

• Clean up the menus. It's organized so weirdly, I've gotten used to it now, but it could be much simpler.
• Organize the roster. It's a jumbled mess, put the characters with their series even if they're DLC.
• Allow players to save a standard control setting. I hate tap jump. I'd like to be able to make new tags without having to go back and once again turn off tap jump, and rumble, and a bunch of things. Allowing players to make their own default contol setting would be great.

The roster:

• Bring Ice Climbers and Wolf back, and maybe two new characters like Inklings and Decidueye or something along those lines.
• Buff characters that need them. Jiggs, DDD, Falco, Zelda, etc.. and not the add a kill throw, or dthrow combo kind of buffs, actually fix some of the character's serious problems like they did with Mewtwo.
• Give Falco and Marth their old dairs back, plus Jigglypuff's rest, pound, bair, and rollout
• Use this opportunity to individualize clones further from their counterparts. I'd prefer to see Ganondorf shed every scent of Falcon altogether.
• Genuine nerfs (and some buffs) to characters like Bayonetta, and Ryu. I know they may not be the best characters, but I feel like some of the tools they do have are absolutely broken. Like, there's no good reason Bayo should be able to continously fair Fox to the outside blast zone, and there's no reason Ryu's neutral can be spamming utilt when he gets enough rage. Things like this need to be addressed, but other areas of the character should be buffed to even it all out.

Gameplay:

• I think the game mechanics in and of themselves are fine. I'd like a more build-a-bear combo-like punish game, but I don't have the knowledge as to how that can happen in this engine.
• Maybe drop rage? Idk, it would change so much stuff it probably wouldn't be worth it, but I'd rather not have it personally.

Online:

• A better server. I have no problem with the connection on any of my other games on the Wii U or PS4, it's only Smash.
• Show a WiFi connection icon to show what kind of connection you and your opponent have. Put it next to the Mii. Preferably I'd rather have them only connect you with people that have similar connections though.
• Allow players to choose if they want to play in just their region or outside regions as well.
• Multiple groups with multiple options. Allow players to toggle which stages, and ruleset they'd like to play with beforehand and connect them with groups that fit.
• Maybe get warnings if you quit midgame, before the straight 10 or so minute ban. Sometime people just gotta leave or go to the bathroom, sometimes the lag is just insanely bad. If they don't do it consistently, I don't think they deserve a ban.
• Change the FG hell stuff. Some people get salty and report people for no reason. Maybe add green, yellow, and red dot icons next to the player to show others how bad of a reputation they have within the past month or so, and let them choose if they want to risk playing with them.
• Rankings. Let people see what rank they are. Even if it's only based on a win loss ratio after a certain amount of games, it's better than nothing.
• Add mini games to online. Let people compete for the fastest score or something like that. Maybe have daily challenges like HR contest for Mario and let people compete on that. Could be fun.

Stages:

• Combine the stage list between games.
• Allow people to turn off hazards. I'd love to play Wily's Castle, Halberd, or Pyrosphere without all the **** going on.

That's probably not all I got, but all I can think of for now.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

• I don't know if I said this previously but please give me back hitstun cancelling from Brawl. With that I mostly don't have to worry about inputting a tech when I'm knocked back.
• Remove the random explosions/backfire moments from those goddamn barrels, crates, and ****.
• In Home Run Contest/Target Blast, put 12 seconds on the clock, not 10.
• 's Fancy Suit outfit needs to have a knee-length skirt if a female Mii wears it.
  
• The landing lag one gets from doing an air dodge near ground level should be zero, as in Brawl.
• The return of both Melee's and Brawl's respective Final Destination and Battlefield stages; those FD/BF variants have the sweetest background transitions. Oh, and these variants can be picked by highlighting Final Destination or Battlefield on the stage-select and holding down a shield button before choosing that stage. L chooses Melee's, R chooses Brawl's variant, no input otherwise gives you SSB4's version of that stage.
• 's Upperdash Arm should do fire damage.
  
• 's aerials need a 75% landing lag reduction.
  
• 's stitchface and Elroy Jetson eyes turnips have a combined 50% chance of appearing while doing the damage/knockback they did in Melee.
  
• 35% lag reduction on & 's Fireballs, thank you.

 

[Gamehowitzer]

• Bring back Adventure Mode
• Bring back Melee's scoring system and the decision multiplayer mode
• Ice Climbers and Wolf
• Donkey Kong and Bowser get their actual voices
• Marth, Little Mac, Mewtwo, Roy, and Cloud get their English voices in the game
• Stock matches online with anyone

No way man i like my japanese voices.