How do you think Smash 4 could be improved?

[C3CC]

Remove Footstool Jumps and the untechable spin.

 

[realmwars]

Well the thing is Ness still has a very solid combo game for him as well as a few ways to set up his combo game. Pk fire, his pivot grab range is decent, if his down tilt trips the opponent that's a means of combo starting.

Not to mention Ness has a strong mix-up game which allows him to be unpredictable with his approaches or counters. Down throw can combo into a lot of his aerials so when someone is at high percents and is to DI away to not get f-air you can instead catch them off guard with an U-air which can possibly snag a KO. That and his f-smash is a VERY powerful reflecting move and a very powerful smash all together if you can get it to connect.

Plus thanks to the new ledge mechanic it makes it harder to gimp Ness which was one of his BIGGEST issues in previous Smash games. Once you get him off the stage, you hang to the ledge, there's nothing Ness could do because ledge hogging was a thing. With that gone Ness has more chances to make it back to the stage.

So yeah Ness has a number of powerful moves and can still stand well on his own, it's just he's got hard matches deal with.

 

[Emmington]

All I want is for Robin to have a half-decent grab.

 

[realmwars]

All I want is for Robin to have a half-decent grab.

I think what Robin needs more than anything is a faster run/walk speed. Seriously Robin is a SLOW character. Being faster really would improve the character a lot considering Robin's frame traps are already pretty good.

 

[Billwally]

Buff Ganon,buff jiggs,and buff Mac's recovery a little bit(Pls)

 

[realmwars]

Ganon's side-B should be able to reach all the way across the stage. We need more Ganon slams.

 

[Swevester]

I would honestly just effect the physics and mechanics of this game, the modes don't bother me one bit. Ledge trumping is fine, air dodge landing lag is fine, but what I have a few things I'd want:

-I'll go ahead and get the bias part out of the way. I want every character to be able to Z-drop even if they have a tether. As you probably guessed, I'm referring to firing his Clawshot whenever he wants to Z-drop. Now that his Bombs don't hurt him when they hit foes...his combo options with them via Z-dropping are limited to being close to the ground. He's literally being punished for having a tool. This is further made an unpleasant physic when you remember that Melee and Brawl didn't actually do this, this is exclusive to Sm4sh. I know it hinders too, but you've seen the stuff he can already do with Bombs.

-It was already mentioned but I'll second it: remove the untechable spin that it does above 100% that has a 25% chance of happening. That's just not okay.

-Lastly, make spot dodges/rolls/air dodges decay when they are spammed. One frame per use. After 30 frames of no dodging, one frame will regenerate. If you roll your way down to the minimum, you will only have one frame of intangibility. It will never drop to 0, however.

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

Buffing the bottom tiers like Jigglypuff and Mii Swordsman would be nice.

 

[Ojwaddler]

I would say to buff all of the low/bottom tiers, Ganon and Jiggs especially, and creating DLC skins.

 

[ElectroLightning]

Inklings.





10 char

 

[Green L]

It's also the thing that makes Ness cancer.

It's also bad character design. Besides, it happened to Luigi, who was arguably less deserving of such a thing than Ness is.

Ness's back throw is his trademark move since the 64 days so I don't stand why NOW its a big deal. Also, I understand that Luigi's grab combos were absurd seeing that the characters above him eventually got nerfed too. Maybe Luigi can have all of his grab combos back but weaker?

Anyway smash 4 could have been improved by nerfing some recoveries like Villager's or Mario's. Its disheartening that you actually pop his balloons only for him to slightly pop upwards a bit and grab the ledge. Making Villager go straight down after his balloons are popped and nerf the distance of his balloons a little with make people go offstage more often. As for mario, remove the massive disjoint on his up b

 

[MarioMeteor]

Ness's back throw is his trademark move since the 64 days so I don't stand why NOW its a big deal.

Because now we have Rage to make it retardedly strong.

I suppose you could argue that the blame should to Rage and not to Ness, though.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Again, as strong as Ness's b-throw is, that pretty much means nothing if your grab range is poor, and you can't even grab your adversary most of the time.

 

[FamilyTeam]

nerfing some recoveries like Villager's or Mario's.

Jesus, Mario's?
Super Jump Punch is good as an attack but as a recovery, it doesn't go very far. What goes far is Mario's air speed and double jump.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Anyway smash 4 could have been improved by nerfing some recoveries like Villager's or Mario's. Its disheartening that you actually pop his balloons only for him to slightly pop upwards a bit and grab the ledge. Making Villager go straight down after his balloons are popped and nerf the distance of his balloons a little with make people go offstage more often. As for mario, remove the massive disjoint on his up b

You do realize that Villager also has Lloid, right? That too is a recovery move to keep note of.

As for Mario, his recovery does not need any nerfs at all, since it's not like Super Jump Punch travels a far distance; just look at Dr. Mario, and his poor recovery.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Again, as strong as Ness's b-throw is, that pretty much means nothing if your grab range is poor, and you can't even grab your adversary most of the time.

It means a hell of a lot because Ness's grab isn't particularly slow like Lucas, nor does it have a bad hitbox like Mewtwo's, meaning that you can fish for a grab until you get one.

 

[realmwars]

That and Ness does have set ups for grabs like pk fire.

Thing is though if you see yourself getting grabbed a lot you're most likely staying in one place for too long and should be moving around more often, maybe even take to the air if you need to since Ness can't grab you in the air. Also you can SDI out of pk fire.

 

[Swevester]

Am I the only one who actually likes rage? I mean, it was essentially designed to make the heavyweights who have been plagued with flaws in the past not suck so hard, while also giving the characters who always make the top tier cut a lot more of a glass cannon, like many of them should be (but were not for one reason or another). I know it's all purely opinion based but excluding the things I mentioned in my previous post, Sm4sh has some of my favorite physics because they actually work to balance the game out.

 

[realmwars]

Am I the only one who actually likes rage? I mean, it was essentially designed to make the heavyweights who have been plagued with flaws in the past not suck so hard, while also giving the characters who always make the top tier cut a lot more of a glass cannon, like many of them should be (but were not for one reason or another). I know it's all purely opinion based but excluding the things I mentioned in my previous post, Sm4sh has some of my favorite physics because they actually work to balance the game out.

Same here, I honestly don't mind it myself mainly because Rage is kind of a double edge sword. It's got just as much bad going for it as it does good.

Yeah you can kill people easier but on the other hand you can also die just as easy due to your high percent.

"Oh it makes comebacks too easy" well it also makes it easy for you to still lose because again your higher percent.

 

[DJBor]

A couple of things
Make footstools techable, because those combos are too extreme. Jab locks to catch tech misses are cool though, keep them.
Nerf ONLY the abilities of top tiers that push them over the top. (Cloud's LBCS and stat boost, Mario's crazy combos and cape, Diddy's down tilt, etc.)
Buff all the low tiers! (Jiggs, Ganon, Link, Roy, Dedede, Zelda, Falco, Jr. and Dr. at the least, but there are more that should be improved)
Make the default Miis balanced with the rest of the cast, instead of viable only with customs
If Bidou inputs can still be a thing, at least make them easier to use without having to change controls
The untechable spin is pretty stupid, at least make it happen consistently at 100% or not at all
Improve the Stage Builder so players can make better neutrals
Make Tourney mode available for local use

Outside of that Smash 4 is very solid, and pretty open-source as to how you want to play the game.
I'd like to wait until Smash 5 for more characters, but by then there's also a large amount of characters I would like to be cut so...

 

[FamilyTeam]

Nerf ONLY the abilities of top tiers that push them over the top. (Cloud's LBCS and stat boost, Mario's crazy combos and cape, Diddy's down tilt, etc.)

Nerf Mario's combos?
You know, the thing that makes him good? You want Brawl Mario back again?
Also, people: Rage is not bad. At all. I don't see anything wrong with comeback mechanics, much less one that acts like a double edge sword to you.

 

[Swevester]

Same here, I honestly don't mind it myself mainly because Rage is kind of a double edge sword. It's got just as much bad going for it as it does good.

Yeah you can kill people easier but on the other hand you can also die just as easy due to your high percent.

"Oh it makes comebacks too easy" well it also makes it easy for you to still lose because again your higher percent.

Also, people: Rage is not bad. At all. I don't see anything wrong with comeback mechanics, much less one that acts like a double edge sword to you.

I think people just overestimate rage, like thinking it makes a character kill at 20% when it's full. It actually doesn't effect as much as people think, It just gives your attacks that extra buff of knockback (it doesn't even give you more damage) that could essentially be just enough to kill your foe. I've mostly seen people point at Ganondorf when saying rage is a bad mechanic, but that's nonsense because Ganondorf will hit you just as hard with or without it. If anything, Ganondorf is the perfect example of why rage is a good thing.

 

[realmwars]

Wait, people use Ganondorf as an example for why rage is bad? You know the guy who hits like a god damn truck ANYWAY? How DARE the dorf do what he's supposed to do.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Rage can be janky in situations, like, well
getting KO'd by Lucina's uncharged Side Smash at 70% near the ledge with Stage 1/2 rage. Then I admit it's kind of stupid, but even then: You can probably KO other people at around the same range anyway.

 

[flamer180]

Seeing how strict this site is, i'm surprised I didn't get banned for having a banned person on my thread.

I don't see the use of removing the C-stick personally but, you are free to think about whatever you like. I think Shulk would really feel some reduced enlag on his moves.

having a banned person on a thread makes no difference whatsoever

if your worried about that, that just may be your own paranoia haha

i never said to remove the c-stick, but you are free to put words in my mouth

i just said its a cheap noob tactic. which it IS.

 

[DJBor]

Nerf Mario's combos?
You know, the thing that makes him good? You want Brawl Mario back again?

No, nobody wants another Brawl Mario. (turns and looks at Dr. Mario)
These combos are not like other characters. They are long, mostly inescapable, and can net some of the earliest KOs across the cast. Specifically, up tilt and up air chains. The moves in the combo should be changed so they become more like Pikachu's combos where they can't KO, but they still rack up significant damage at low percent.
Also cape can do some stupid stuff like obliterating horizontal recoveries, reversing grabs onto teammates in doubles, and straight up nullifying some moves like Rollout. It could receive some sort of timing change to make it harder to reverse stuff, but after the combo nerf that may be going too far...

 

[flamer180]

I feel like there could be more characters that aren't just the crappy mii fighter outfits, like give us geno from mario rpg, or give us Ashley from wario ware, but please, if we get anymore fire emblem characters, give us Tharja, Keaton, Kaden or Ranulf...they are all very interesting characters and would have some very different moves from the rest of the cast.

yes i would LOVE geno from mario rpg

and rayman, crash bandicoot, and yo semmit sam XD haha

there should somehow be a mode where you can switch on or off the c-stick

Bring back and . That is all.

i definately agree, but you forgot: Remove Wii Gag Trainer

its a burden to the standards of smash bros

 

[FamilyTeam]

Mate, are you still triple posting?
Triple posting with character bashing? That ain't nice at all, frankly...

No, nobody wants another Brawl Mario. (turns and looks at Dr. Mario)
These combos are not like other characters. They are long, mostly inescapable, and can net some of the earliest KOs across the cast. Specifically, up tilt and up air chains. The moves in the combo should be changed so they become more like Pikachu's combos where they can't KO, but they still rack up significant damage at low percent.
Also cape can do some stupid stuff like obliterating horizontal recoveries, reversing grabs onto teammates in doubles, and straight up nullifying some moves like Rollout. It could receive some sort of timing change to make it harder to reverse stuff, but after the combo nerf that may be going too far...

DThrow>Up Tilt is a true combo is chaining two moves together counts as a combo. After the first Up Tilt, most characters can escape this, which is why most Marios don't really do a whole lot of them unless they know their opponent has trouble escaping it (it is hard to escape, yes). The Up Air strings are also hard to escape, but BSD once did a video on Mario combos and how to escape them, and you might want to check it out.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Also, people: Rage is not bad. At all. I don't see anything wrong with comeback mechanics, much less one that acts like a double edge sword to you.

The rage dilemma is not too different from that of Lucario's dilemma. Lucario's current damage needs to be high for its attacks to be very lethal, but that comes at a price in that it too can get KO'd easily, simply because of its high damage percentage. You can't really take advantage of the power boost if you get KO'd before having any chance of using it.

 

[Swevester]

Rage can be janky in situations, like, well
getting KO'd by Lucina's uncharged Side Smash at 70% near the ledge with Stage 1/2 rage. Then I admit it's kind of stupid, but even then: You can probably KO other people at around the same range anyway.

That...sounds about right, though. 70% on the ledge with some rage (some fighters that'd be death rage or no) assuming it's not stale, that's about right. It doesn't really create anything, half rage only really makes attacks kill like 5% earlier.

The rage dilemma is not too different from that of Lucario's dilemma. Lucario's current damage needs to be high for its attacks to be very lethal, but that comes at a price in that it too can get KO'd easily, simply because of its high damage percentage. You can't really take advantage of the power boost if you get KO'd before having any chance of using it.

I caught onto that. Lucario is kind of inconsistent because of this: he can easily 2-stock opponents because his aura can let him kill very early, but the exact opposite can be said if he dies first. In a way, he's like Little Mac: you have to play a certain way, that's just how the character was designed. Whether aura needs altering or not is not my fight, though.

 

[flamer180]

Mate, are you still triple posting?
Triple posting with character bashing? That ain't nice at all, frankly...


DThrow>Up Tilt is a true combo is chaining two moves together counts as a combo. After the first Up Tilt, most characters can escape this, which is why most Marios don't really do a whole lot of them unless they know their opponent has trouble escaping it (it is hard to escape, yes). The Up Air strings are also hard to escape, but BSD once did a video on Mario combos and how to escape them, and you might want to check it out.

i can "character bash" any character i want

i would say ****** but im trying to be civil here lol

its called opinion. if your not strong enough to handle opinion maybe darwin's evolution or some sh*t will catch up with you XD
even though to be clear people: I do NOT believe in monkey evolution.

Mate, are you still triple posting?
Triple posting with character bashing? That ain't nice at all, frankly...


DThrow>Up Tilt is a true combo is chaining two moves together counts as a combo. After the first Up Tilt, most characters can escape this, which is why most Marios don't really do a whole lot of them unless they know their opponent has trouble escaping it (it is hard to escape, yes). The Up Air strings are also hard to escape, but BSD once did a video on Mario combos and how to escape them, and you might want to check it out.

why is it such a problem to say the wii gag trainer is crap when it IS crap?

 

[DJBor]

Fit=gag?
Do you wanna Pokemon GO, bro?
(I don't)

 

[flamer180]

Fit=gag?
Do you wanna Pokemon GO, bro?
(I don't)

What about Pokemon Next? Next level sh*t. Be catching pokemon off skyscrapers!

Fit = Gag all day every day

 

[Swevester]

i can "character bash" any character i want

i would say ****** but im trying to be civil here lol

its called opinion. if your not strong enough to handle opinion maybe darwin's evolution or some sh*t will catch up with you XD
even though to be clear people: I do NOT believe in monkey evolution.

*ahem*
Under the bridge, I wait.
Throwing out internet bait.
It's obvious I don't learn,
I'm impossible to burn,
I just want someone to relate.

On that part of the web,
Opinions are what I shed.
My thoughts are top tier,
Theirs smell like my rear,
On my bait they have fed.

They want an internet fight,
I'll show them truth and light!
Oh how I have angered them,
I have gotten under their skin,
They will learn of a troll's might!

Oh wow, I have caught much!
Telling me "git gud" and such!
Post after post I read,
I leave them after my deed,
I've given the internet my touch!

 

[flamer180]

*ahem

*a poem about trolls or something*

yea i dont know if im into reading poems haha

*ahem*
Under the bridge, I wait.
Throwing out internet bait.
It's obvious I don't learn,
I'm impossible to burn,
I just want someone to relate.

On that part of the web,
Opinions are what I shed.
My thoughts are top tier,
Theirs smell like my rear,
On my bait they have fed.

They want an internet fight,
I'll show them truth and light!
Oh how I have angered them,
I have gotten under their skin,
They will learn of a troll's might!

Oh wow, I have caught much!
Telling me "git gud" and such!
Post after post I read,
I leave them after my deed,
I've given the internet my touch!

put it into music form haha create a band just for this one song

XD

 

[JoelTheSmasher]

Give the doc better air mobility. That's why his recovery is so bad. He doesn't have the aerial mobility to compliment it li,e mario.

Give the doc better air mobility. That's why his recovery is so bad. He doesn't have the aerial mobility to compliment it like mario.

A couple of things
Make footstools techable, because those combos are too extreme. Jab locks to catch tech misses are cool though, keep them.
Nerf ONLY the abilities of top tiers that push them over the top. (Cloud's LBCS and stat boost, Mario's crazy combos and cape, Diddy's down tilt, etc.)
Buff all the low tiers! (Jiggs, Ganon, Link, Roy, Dedede, Zelda, Falco, Jr. and Dr. at the least, but there are more that should be improved)
Make the default Miis balanced with the rest of the cast, instead of viable only with customs
If Bidou inputs can still be a thing, at least make them easier to use without having to change controls
The untechable spin is pretty stupid, at least make it happen consistently at 100% or not at all
Improve the Stage Builder so players can make better neutrals
Make Tourney mode available for local use

Outside of that Smash 4 is very solid, and pretty open-source as to how you want to play the game.
I'd like to wait until Smash 5 for more characters, but by then there's also a large amount of characters I would like to be cut so...

Buff the hell out of Roy, and link for Swevester.

 

[FalKoopa]

JoelTheSmasher
Please don't double post. If you have something to add, just edit your post.

*ahem*
Under the bridge, I wait.
Throwing out internet bait.
It's obvious I don't learn,
I'm impossible to burn,
I just want someone to relate.

On that part of the web,
Opinions are what I shed.
My thoughts are top tier,
Theirs smell like my rear,
On my bait they have fed.

They want an internet fight,
I'll show them truth and light!
Oh how I have angered them,
I have gotten under their skin,
They will learn of a troll's might!

Oh wow, I have caught much!
Telling me "git gud" and such!
Post after post I read,
I leave them after my deed,
I've given the internet my touch!

Although the poem is clever, don't reverse-troll, please. Just report the posts, and leave the rest to the mods.

 

[Swevester]

Give the doc better air mobility. That's why his recovery is so bad. He doesn't have the aerial mobility to compliment it li,e mario.




Buff the hell out of Roy, and link for Swevester.

Lol appreciate the shout-out but Link needs a buff because he simply needs a buff.

I think they need to make Doc's Sheet work like Melee Mario's Cape. This way his recovery is a lot more technical, while Mario's is a lot more straightforward.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Air speed is more important for Dr. Mario though. One thing I did was raise the in-game value for Dr. Mario's air speed (1.15) to 1.08x its original value. That value would then be multiplied by 0.81 (Dr. Mario's air speed multiplier), giving Dr. Mario a 1.00602 air speed value.

 

[Swevester]

Air speed is more important for Dr. Mario though. One thing I did was raise the in-game value for Dr. Mario's air speed (1.15) to 1.08x its original value. That value would then be multiplied by 0.81 (Dr. Mario's air speed multiplier), giving Dr. Mario a 1.00602 air speed value.

That could work as well. I just thought that maybe it would separate the two a little in how they play, even if they are the two most unique clones out of the three. Doc could rely on Sheet, Tornado, wall jump and SJP while Mario simply had the wall jump and SJP but had much better air speed anyway. Although I like your idea more.

Although the poem is clever, don't reverse-troll, please. Just report the posts, and leave the rest to the mods.

Apologies. I didn't plan on acknowledging him afterwards anyways.