How do I do a Barrel Roll? ~ Fox Q&A (Check the OP)

[crifer]

What matchups would SHTL be particularly better than normal double or single laser?

You can not generalize that. Against certain characters there are certain situations where SHTL is safe and better and some situations you should not laser at all.
Example Snake:
I like to SHTl if he is far away, on the other side of the stage and tries to outcamp me.
But if he comes closer I have to watch out if he is in dash attack range, which is a really good punisher and has a lot of range. This is the Zoning/space that you should watchc arefully and should fire single laser only in a small degree. (because it is punishable).

 

[Kuro~]

You can not generalize that. Against certain characters there are certain situations where SHTL is safe and better and some situations you should not laser at all.
Example Snake:
I like to SHTl if he is far away, on the other side of the stage and tries to outcamp me.
But if he comes closer I have to watch out if he is in dash attack range, which is a really good punisher and has a lot of range. This is the Zoning/space that you should watchc arefully and should fire single laser only in a small degree. (because it is punishable).

Ya i get that part. It's mu like peach shtl is obviously better than SHDL. The difference between SHTL and SHDL isn't frames or anything like that. It's an extra laser. That was my point. Thanks for the tidbits.

 

[crifer]

Ya i get that part. It's mu like peach shtl is obviously better than SHDL. The difference between SHTL and SHDL isn't frames or anything like that. It's an extra laser. That was my point. Thanks for the tidbits.

there is a difference: mobility.

 

[Kuro~]

there is a difference: mobility.

I think ik what you mean but would you care to elaborate?

 

[crifer]

It´s just that SHTL and the inputs of the three laser are taking the whole time you are in the air to come out. While shooting this three laser you´re can not move, once you´re deciding to input a SHTL you´re bound to that.
If you for example do a single laser, you can jump a quite good distance back or forth and decide while you´´re jumping back/forwards if it will be safe to fire a laser or not. If you input a short hop backwards and you realize that a mk is coming to close to you, you have the option to airdodge, dair, nair or doublejump which can counter the dash or running approach of mk.

Exceptions, where you can somehow still move with SHTL is RARing, and B-Reversing the first laser, which is difficult to implement in your spacing game. (I SHTL RAR B reversaling sometimes to get out of marth´s or mk´s fair range and the punish with usmash, which looks really awesome and pro :D)

 

[Kuro~]

ok ty for explaining that.

 

[WindMajor]

What's up Fox mains (and Iblis)?

I have a couple of questions I want to ask and I'd like you guys to help me answer them. They're all related to Norfair by the way.

1) How does your character fare with just the stage? Does your character benefit from the layout and the numerous hazards or do they normally hinder you?
2) How does your character generally fare on this stage against certain matchups? Does he excel in a lot of them and only has a few bad MUs, or is he generally bad on this stage against a large portion of the cast?
3) What are some general strategies for your character on this stage? Controlling the center? Stalling? Staying mobile?
4) Overall, would you say that this stage is mostly good for your character, mostly bad, or depends?

Thanks in advance!

Spoiler

This mass survey across most of the character boards is admin approved.

 

[RPK]

Oh, and you also get a small moment to do something unlike SHTL. SHTL I buffer all my lasers so if I decide to SHTL and my opponent does something that I can do anything about...Well I can only hope to shield by the time it gets to me. SHDL gives you small moment since the best time to do it is I believe at the peak of your short hop. So while rising, you have that time to examine everything and decide if its safe to laser or not. So...I've got a question...

How do I not get grabbed? How do I know when is the best time to throw out a move, and not get punished for it? How do I control the center of the stage? Simple things

 

[Kuares]

You don't get grabbed by running away from people and alway being in the air or you could never let opponents get a good setup in by amazing spacing and grabbing them.

As for knowing when to throw out a move, you have to know your options and the opponents options. If they can't do anything good, that's when you move.

As for controlling the center of the stage, don't get knocked off the stage and knock them away. It shouldn't be too hard to answer these questions.

 

[izic]

For fox's really bad matchups (Pikachu, ICs, Shiek), how well would counterpicking or hitting and running to time them out work?

 

[V]

Does fox's laser blow up snake's grenades?

 

[Conviction]

Yes it does.

 

[HFlash]

Hey guys, I was wondering what is the best move to try to stop a chaingrab on a fox? Such as, Marth's fair can cut a chaingrab short. Sorry if this is a noobish question.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Kuro~]

Hey guys, I was wondering what is the best move to try to stop a chaingrab on a fox? Such as, Marth's fair can cut a chaingrab short. Sorry if this is a noobish question.
Thanks in advance.

If marths fair is cutting the cg short then the cg isn't suppose to work at that %. Cg means you literally can't do anything about it if they do it correctly.

You have two really good options in case they mess up however...neutral air and shine.

 

[HFlash]

Well do u have any recommendations on how a fox should approach a match to not get cg or is it something u hav to deal with and throw ur controller at the tv when it happens. Again. Im a fox noob =]

 

[Conviction]

What you want to do is camp and space aerials to avoid CGs. We have many vids in our video thread if you are interested in looking.

ALSO, Kuro! I finally have your vids in the upload line up O.o

 

[Wilmenz]

Whats the best special button to replace B for SHTL.

I jump with Y.

 

[Kuro~]

Whats the best special button to replace B for SHTL.

I jump with Y.

X. Also you can set dpad to jump and shtl with b that way. I use both of those changes.

 

[Wilmenz]

X. Also you can set dpad to jump and shtl with b that way. I use both of those changes.

I grab with X.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

 

[Kuro~]

I grab with X.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

then just change it. I usually grab with z but for fox i have z set to jump for JCupsmash and R set to grab X set to special.

Sacrifices are necessary :3

 

[Wilmenz]

I guess i'll just SHDL ._. but its really hard to hit small characters with them.

 

[Kuro~]

I guess i'll just SHDL ._. but its really hard to hit small characters with them.

Get better

 

[Conviction]

I was going to say that.

 

[Wilmenz]

There's no magic trick to laser MK optimally? lmfao.

 

[Conviction]

Watch other foxes play against mk

 

[ADHD]

Is there a stage where fox ***** mk?

 

[Robfox]

Is there a stage where fox ***** mk?

....................
Is this a trick question?
MK gets ***** by no one
lol na I would say a stage that allows you to run alot
FD is my fav then SV, BF, PS1
Fav CP's = Delfino, Halberd,

 

[Kuro~]

My fav so far are battlefield, FD, and halberd(assuming they don't ban it =/)

 

[Conviction]

Actually I enjoy getting cpd to brinstar by mk. Either way neutrals are your best choice adhd (lol why aren't you asking nakat?)

I'm debating how well mk does on Castle Siege.

 

[NAKAT]

Don't tell ADHD anything! lol

 

[Conviction]

Fox does so well at hyrule against mk though.

 

[M@v]

Is there a stage where fox ***** mk?

Fox doesn't **** mk anywhere, because fox loses vs mk.

However, Fox's best stages vs mk are probably Bf, FD, and Halberd(Gotta be really careful of the first part though).

 

[Okuser]

I CANNOT find a good, clear explanation of how to SHDL, I've literally tried it for hours in the practice room and can barely do it once. someone please tell me how, and I'm even trying the x jump + y special ****.

 

[DellSmashman]

Why is your character so good? Also what are best counterpicks vs Snake, and why?

 

[M@v]

^ Halberd usually is a great cp, but I wouldn't take snake there since he reaps the same benefits you do(early off the top kills). I say FD is the best place to take snake because it gives you plenty of room to outcamp him, and royally screw his recovery.


Also, for my question. Does anyone around here have complete/up to date frame data for fox?

 

[NAKAT]

Why is your character so good? Also what are best counterpicks vs Snake, and why?

FD- outcamp him and force him to approach from afar.

Bf- platforms are amazing for juggling him and setups.

 

[- rko -]

Hey guys, I frequently fool around with Fox a bit, but I have trouble doing the shtl consistently. Is there a certain control setup for the Wiichuck to do the shtl consistently?

 

[M@v]

I know configs on the gamecube, but no idea on the wiichuck. the only thing I can suggest is that the idea of a shtl is to be inputting lasers almost instantly after you short hop, so try configurations based on that, whether your moving 1 finger really fast, or using two fingers(same or different hands) and pushing jump+laser near simultaneously.

For example, some shtl setups on game cube include:

X=jump
y=special

uptaunt=jump
b=special

x=jump
L or R =special

 

[Conviction]

Its really that hard for other people to use the control stick and b to shtl?

It works for any controller.



Bar the solo wiimote.

 

[M@v]

Yeah, it is actually. Most people can't do it.

I use uptaunt to jump when shtling and b to laser

NAKAT uses Y as special and X as jump. I might try to transition to this configuration, but it feels akward for me to do shtls rapidly with it.