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How can we predict reveals?

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Xigger

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Hmmm...

Well if the trailers were already made, then that would be an interesting topic to discuss.

For example, for K.Rool. Maybe we need Diddy revealed first? Diddy probably won't be revealed until Tropical Freeze comes out in February, so that's a bit of time to wait I suppose.

Any other thoughts?

I was going to suggest: at the end of each workday, the entire Smash development team uses a bingo rolling cages to determine who gets announced. But freaking CG trailers ruins that.

I like the trailers idea, because before there were only the veterans, and the three newcomers. But as much as I love it, we can't really prove much. At least in this case, Peach and Luigi were just in the background. They could have been re-rendered a week ago for all we know.
 

jaytalks

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Hmmm...

Well if the trailers were already made, then that would be an interesting topic to discuss.

For example, for K.Rool. Maybe we need Diddy revealed first? Diddy probably won't be revealed until Tropical Freeze comes out in February, so that's a bit of time to wait I suppose.

Any other thoughts?
The trailers all relate to their in game universe, so yeah. The first three we got were all newcomers, so no need for any priors.

I think diddy will come before K. Rool or Dixie. I think it applies to all series. Like even in the case of Fire Emblem. Perhaps Marth is in the FE newcomer reveal. The usually attitude has been that Marth hurts an Awakening character's chances, but it could be just the opposite. Considering Marth's status as the legendary Hero King in Fire Emblem: Awakening, it's easy to see a trailer with Marth and Chrom/Lucina/Robin interacting.
 

Starbound

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If Mewtwo gets a trailer, then I don't expect it to show up until Pokemon Trainer is confirmed.
 

Shorts

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At this point.

"Predict" a roster you want, because there's so many wild cards and wtf's being thrown at us. I cannot believe Rosalina was picked. So crazy. I've waited five years to see if AT ALL we would get a Mario newcomer (I didn't think we would), and the only choices in my mind were Junior and Toad. Sakurai is just full of suprises, and I bet he loves to be sneaky like he has been.

So, with that said. **** off Chrom. I want Tharja.
 

Forcerounds

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Zelda > Dedede or Meta Knight > Diddy Kong > Yoshi > Wario (for Mario Kart 8)

Then a batch of veterans and new characters will be revealed during E3.
 

Kon

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Btw now that we are speaking of universe. The Mario series first had all veterans confirmed (Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser) before getting a newcomer. I doubt that it will always be that way, but still I want to point that one out.

So for the DK series we only need Diddy before getting a DK newcomer, at least if all veterans from the series need to be confirmed first.

Legend of Zelda would have Zelda and Ganondorf to be confirmed first, following this theory.

We could continue this list, but I think we don't really need that. Why? Because I'm pretty sure we will also get a few more new/old series that weren't in Smash until SSB4 and these series don't need any character to be confirmed first. (example: Punch Out!)

Also the theory only has one case to refer to and therefore isn't representative in any way. We need to wait if in the future we will see similar cases. Maybe the confirmed veterans somehow let us know which series could get a newcomer revealed.
 

AnOkayDM

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Legend of Zelda would have Zelda and Ganondorf to be confirmed first, following this theory..
Potentially. But say Toon Zelda/Tetra is in. For that confirmation we'd need:
Link (before Toon Link)
Toon Link (shows off that the Toon thing is still around)
Zelda (before we get her clone)
And then Toon Zelda.

Getting Toon Zelda before Toon Link would be a dead giveaway that Toon Link was returning, and showing her before normal Zelda would also be odd.

Ganondorf is a maybe, but I could still see him being revealed first. Trouble is, he wasn't in ALBW, so Zelda would likely be the character chosen for that, and there's no other time I can think of for him to be revealed--unless he gets a random one like Marth did, which we should all know is a definite possibility for any character.
 

TempahRelapse

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Two points to consider and may come clear further down the track:

2) When Sakurai fills up all the grey boxes on the website it means it's time for newcomers and another batch of grey boxes (to later be filled with veterans.) Sakurai filling up the last box with Marth may have been because he was getting ready for the next trailer (possibly VGX or New Year Nintendo Direct)
With Rosalina it seems this could possibly correct. No grey boxes have appeared so we may get another newcomer.
 

MasterOfKnees

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The grey boxes mean nothing, it's an automatic thing that scales according to the screen's size. Not every little blank space needs to be filled out, if you look at the Brawl site the veterans section has a whole row dedicated only to Sheik. Sakurai isn't a web-design snop it seems.
 

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Saying that Tharja is going to get in over Chrom or Roy is simply stupidity.

Just because Rosalina got in doesn't mean that minor characters who mean little to a story are going to get in. Rosalina was/is important to Mario now, and has been making consistent appearances. Tharja isn't in the same league whatsoever.

That's like saying Pidgeotto is going to get in over Mewtwo. Nonsense.
 

Rocket Raccoon

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First off, people MUST start predicting the 5th Zelda & Pokémon newcomer.

With Rosaluma added, Star Fox, & Kirby get upped a character.

DK, Fire Emblem, Earthbound and every series gets upped a newcomer (or veteran)

Except Metroid.

Here's the answer to the thread title: you don't!
 

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If Mewtwo gets a trailer, then I don't expect it to show up until Pokemon Trainer is confirmed.
You know, I kind of had an input, where Mewtwo ends up confronting Rosalina. Rosalina manages to stop all of Mewtwo's attacks, forcing it to mega evolve into Mega Mewtwo Y. The match would result in a draw, and it ends with Rosalina and Mewtwo befriending each other.

Yeah it pretty much won't happen if Mewtwo gets a trailer, but it would at least be a way to show off Mega Mewtwo Y, if it's going to be in the game too.
 

APC99

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If Zelda and Pokemon both get a newcomer, I'm fairly certain it'll be Mewtwo as the Pokemon newcomer. For Zelda, I think Tingle.
 

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If Mewtwo returns and no cuts, that's five for pokemon. I think the following series will each gain a rep: Pokemon (as previously stated), Donkey Kong (at least), Kid Icarus, and Fire Emblem.
Zelda feels complete to me and no one stands out at this point. Star Fox has only ever gotten clones or semi-clones, and I don't that's going to change. Mother is a very dormant series. F-Zero just needs Captain Falcon, and it's also dormant. Metroid, for some reason Sakurai feels should have one is my guess. With Kirby, Sakurai will have fear bias in adding the fourth. Pikmin's good. Animal Crossing could use one more rep, but I don't see it at this point.
 

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First off, people MUST start predicting the 5th Zelda & Pokémon newcomer.

With Rosaluma added, Star Fox, & Kirby get upped a character.

DK, Fire Emblem, Earthbound and every series gets upped a newcomer (or veteran)!
Okay. Don't think that's likely, but I wouldn't mind all these newco-

Except Metroid.


Stop. Right now.
 

KingofPhantoms

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First off, people MUST start predicting the 5th Zelda & Pokémon newcomer.
Seeing as how Pokemon are chosen based on popularity, and Lucario and Mewtwo are still among the most popular right now, I think they'll both get in. Since Mewtwo would technically be a returning veteran, I doubt we'll be getting a true newcomer for Pokemon.

Zelda newcomer? I think there will be one, but I'm not sure who..... I think Sakurai may try to revisit the idea of Toon Zelda (and either Tetra or.....dear god dare I say "toon sheik") and if not, we MIGHT get Tingle or Phantom Zelda.


With Rosaluma added, Star Fox, & Kirby get upped a character.

DK, Fire Emblem, Earthbound and every series gets upped a newcomer (or veteran)
Mario getting a newcomer doesn't automatically mean almost every single franchise will definitely get a newcomer, though I do believe the chances of more franchises getting a newcomer has increased a bit.

I'm still kind of iffy on Bandana Dee, given Sakurai's modesty. And then theres Krystal, whom Sakurai may not see as unique enough to add. It all depends on if the staff fighting is enough.

A DK newcomer is practically guaranteed.

every series gets upped a newcomer (or veteran)

Except Metroid.
Please tell me that part is just a joke.
 

AnOkayDM

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So will every newcomer character have trailers? If so, I wonder if they will show another newcomer within the next Nintendo Direct?
Yep, every newcomer will have a trailer.

counting it by slots. i did the same with metroid.
Well, I count by the number of characters you can actually play as. Zelda has five, Pokémon has six, Metroid has two.
 

jaytalks

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Yep, every newcomer will have a trailer.



Well, I count by the number of characters you can actually play as. Zelda has five, Pokémon has six, Metroid has two.
I think we've had this conversation before. I do it by slots because the characters in a slot [squirtle, charizard, and ivysaur], [zelda and sheik], [samus and ZSS] are made to be played together, not as individual characters. I of course recognize the individual work Sakurai and his team does to make each individual character. But Charizard didn't make it into Brawl; pokemon trainer did.
 

AnOkayDM

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I think we've had this conversation before. I do it by slots because the characters in a slot [squirtle, charizard, and ivysaur], [zelda and sheik], [samus and ZSS] are made to be played together, not as individual characters. I of course recognize the individual work Sakurai and his team does to make each individual character. But Charizard didn't make it into Brawl; pokemon trainer did.
But you can select each character and play an entire match as that character without ever transforming (barring the forced transformations of PT, which you can then undo).

Transformations count as separate characters. Each character is playable on their own, and that's all that matters.
 

jaytalks

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But you can select each character and play an entire match as that character without ever transforming (barring the forced transformations of PT, which you can then undo).

Transformations count as separate characters. Each character is playable on their own, and that's all that matters.
yeah, but that's just like if you don't like using Link's bombs. Transformation/switch out is a part of the moveset. Just like Link's bombs are, even if you don't use them.

Same thing with Samus and her ZZS transformation. Even if you turn off smash balls, its still part of the overall character design. The Landmaster is still a part of Fox's moveset. You are just all choosing not to use it. And you can also transform without the final smash.
 

AnOkayDM

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yeah, but that's just like if you don't like using Link's bombs. Transformation is a part of the moveset. Just like Link's bombs are, even if you don't use them. Same thing with Samus and her ZZS transformation. Even if you turn off smash balls, its still part of the overall characters design. And you can also transform without the final smash.
Except Link's bombs are pretty integral to his character, and changing between Zelda and Sheik is not. Most people pick one character of a transformation set and stick with them.
Also, doesn't the Samus transformation only work one way? If I remember right, you can't put the suit back on.
 

jaytalks

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Except Link's bombs are pretty integral to his character, and changing between Zelda and Sheik is not. Most people pick one character of a transformation set and stick with them.
Also, doesn't the Samus transformation only work one way? If I remember right, you can't put the suit back on.
If you are talking about competitive play, sure. But I'm sure there are a few moves that are consider useless in that instance (such as Mario's Fludd), that no one uses. In casual play, picking one character and sticking with it isnt as common. Additionally, with pokemon trainer you need to switch out at time to be effective with the character. it can be used for key dodges and low stamina can make you lose a match.

I just use Link as an example. Transformation/Switch is part of the moveset. Switching is integral to the Pokemon Trainer. Tranformation is integral to Sheik's identity in OOT.

You can put the suit back on if you do ZSS's final smash.

Edit: BTW, I don't think you're way of thinking is wrong. That's just how I look at it.
 

AnOkayDM

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If you are talking about competitive play, sure. But I'm sure there are a few moves that are consider useless in that instance (such as Mario's Fludd), that no one uses. In casual play, picking one character and sticking with it isnt as common. Additionally, with pokemon trainer you need to switch out at time to be effective with the character. it can be used for key dodges and low stamina can make you lose a match.
I've never met a single person who swaps between any transformation character. Everyone I know picks a playstyle they like and sticks with it. That's how most people work. Additionally, Sakurai's stupid design choices don't mean you can't play a single Pokémon the whole match; I've done it many times, as have lots of other people.

Tranformation is integral to Sheik's identity in OOT.
This isn't OoT. You can play a whole match as Sheik without ever needing to transform. She does perfectly fine on her own.

You can put the suit back on if you do ZSS's final smash.
I'm not talking about her Final Smash. You said you can transform without the Final Smash. You can only go one way. Without a Smash Ball, you can't put the Power Suit back on.

If we had this debate before, we clearly didn't decide anything then either. But the way I see it there are thirty-nine playable characters in the game, and that's all the matters. See it how you will; I don't care enough to continue this debate.
 

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I've never met a single person who swaps between any transformation character. Everyone I know picks a playstyle they like and sticks with it. That's how most people work. Additionally, Sakurai's stupid design choices don't mean you can't play a single Pokémon the whole match; I've done it many times, as have lots of other people.



This isn't OoT. You can play a whole match as Sheik without ever needing to transform. She does perfectly fine on her own.



I'm not talking about her Final Smash. You said you can transform without the Final Smash. You can only go one way. Without a Smash Ball, you can't put the Power Suit back on.

If we had this debate before, we clearly didn't decide anything then either. But the way I see it there are thirty-nine playable characters in the game, and that's all the matters. See it how you will; I don't care enough to continue this debate.
I always swap between Pokemon when I play as Pokemon Trainer. I start the game off with Ivysaur. When I get high in damage, if I can, I switch to Charizard. I use Squirtle after I do usually in a stock match, but I also moniter how long I've been the pokemon and swap out when I can. Squirtle stays when I am against a fast player. So you just met one, if a discussion on a forum about the video game counts as meeting someone. Pokemon Trainer is my secondary main.

You can play a whole match without using Fludd. You can fight a whole match without using bombs. That's my point. What's integral to character is usually, on some level, personal opinion. Sheik transforming into Zelda is integral to the character. Sheik makes the same amount of appearances in the Zelda series as Fludd does in the Super Mario series.

Yeah you're right about the power suit. But the transformation is key to Final Smash, which is undeniable part of Samus's moveset.

I saw this as more of a discussion rather than a debate. I'm not trying to persuade into my thinking per se; I'm explaining my rational. It's important to point at that I never said characters. I said reps. I've been referring to slots this whole time. I know there were 39 characters in Brawl. Recognizing the roster by slots and by characters is not mutual exclusive. Pokemon Trainer is a rep for the Pokemon series and has a slot in Brawl. Charizard is a character in Brawl.

No need to get frustrated. I completely understand how you see it, as I said above. "Deciding things" in a debate isn't always necessary. In fact, more often than not, nothing is decided in a debate.
 

AnOkayDM

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All right, I see your points. I just disagree. :p

To be serious, I don't differentiate between characters and slots. Do you know much about the modding community, specifically Project: M? The most recent release included the Clone Engine, which allows us to add characters to the game--something that has been impossible up until now. However, there are a limited amount of character slots available to us. The thing about that is that any transforming character works by searching for a specified slot to find the character data. Currently there are five empty slots we can still fill with characters (two were taken up by Roy and Mewtwo already, so there were originally seven). However, in deciding which characters to use, it's important to realize that if we were to add a transforming character (let's say Toon Zelda and Tetra), that character would take up two slots. That's why I consider the number of characters and the number of slots to be one and the same, because from the standpoint of the game, every single character resides in a separate slot.

Now you can change the wording if you like (reps), but I still see every separate character as being a separate character. I do understand what you mean though.
 

jaytalks

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All right, I see your points. I just disagree. :p

To be serious, I don't differentiate between characters and slots. Do you know much about the modding community, specifically Project: M? The most recent release included the Clone Engine, which allows us to add characters to the game--something that has been impossible up until now. However, there are a limited amount of character slots available to us. The thing about that is that any transforming character works by searching for a specified slot to find the character data. Currently there are five empty slots we can still fill with characters (two were taken up by Roy and Mewtwo already, so there were originally seven). However, in deciding which characters to use, it's important to realize that if we were to add a transforming character (let's say Toon Zelda and Tetra), that character would take up two slots. That's why I consider the number of characters and the number of slots to be one and the same, because from the standpoint of the game, every single character resides in a separate slot.

Now you can change the wording if you like (reps), but I still see every separate character as being a separate character. I do understand what you mean though.
yeah, i've become familiar with the modding community. Yeah, I familiar with that type of programming for the characters. I understand why people don't differentiate between characters and slots. I don't play Project M though, but I totally respect the work that the team does.

But in predicting reveals (see? I connected it back to the thread) the overarching idea does matter. Let's say we were predicting with Brawl, and we had no idea which characters would be in the game. If the day before a reveal, I predicted Charizard, I wouldn't be completely right. The character revealed was Pokemon Trainer (along with the other two). But I would get some credit I guess, Assuming the possibility of other transformation characters (such as a Lucina and Chrom combination or a Mega evolution deal with Mewtwo), then at the very least the concept of slot (or whatever overarching term you want to use for the totality of a transformation character) is important.

I do have a question though. Is Luma a separate character? With my very limited knowledge of programming, considering all the moves I've seen, it appears it would probably programmed as a separate character. And it does get billing along with Rosalina (keep in mind, so does Pikmin with Olimar).

What does everyone else think?
 

AnOkayDM

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But in predicting reveals (see? I connected it back to the thread) the overarching idea does matter. Let's say we were predicting with Brawl, and we had no idea which characters would be in the game. If the day before a reveal, I predicted Charizard, I wouldn't be completely right. The character revealed was Pokemon Trainer (along with the other two). But I would get some credit I guess, Assuming the possibility of other transformation characters (such as a Lucina and Chrom combination or a Mega evolution deal with Mewtwo), then at the very least the concept of slot (or whatever overarching term you want to use for the totality of a transformation character) is important.
Eh, for what it's worth, I would give you credit for having predicted Charizard. Just like anyone who guessed Zelda would be in but didn't guess Sheik would be with her would still technically be correct. Now, bonus points of course for anyone who guesses the full character!

I do have a question though. Is Luma a separate character? With my very limited knowledge of programming, considering all the moves I've seen, it appears it would probably programmed as a separate character. And it does get billing along with Rosalina (keep in mind, so does Pikmin with Olimar).

What does everyone else think?
I would assume Rosalina has been programmed similarly to the Ice Climbers. The Lumas seem to do little more than mimic Rosalina's moves--they simply do so wherever they have been placed. And the Ice Climbers only take up one character slot, I believe, so from that standpoint, my guess is they qualify as articles, not characters.
 

jaytalks

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I would assume Rosalina has been programmed similarly to the Ice Climbers. The Lumas seem to do little more than mimic Rosalina's moves--they simply do so wherever they have been placed. And the Ice Climbers only take up one character slot, I believe, so from that standpoint, my guess is they qualify as articles, not characters.
From what I understand, Nana and Popo have separate files. That's one of the arguments against the unused Pra_Mai being Plusle and Minum.
 

AnOkayDM

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From what I understand, Nana and Popo have separate files. That's one of the arguments against the unused Pra_Mai being Plusle and Minum.
Looking into the Brawl ISO, all I see is Popo. There's no Nana folder and no Nana file.

The ICs have a specific variable that causes them to spawn two. It's technically possible (but incredibly buggy) to do this with any other character.
 

Rocket Raccoon

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Seeing as how Pokemon are chosen based on popularity, and Lucario and Mewtwo are still among the most popular right now, I think they'll both get in. Since Mewtwo would technically be a returning veteran, I doubt we'll be getting a true newcomer for Pokemon.

Zelda newcomer? I think there will be one, but I'm not sure who..... I think Sakurai may try to revisit the idea of Toon Zelda (and either Tetra or.....dear god dare I say "toon sheik") and if not, we MIGHT get Tingle or Phantom Zelda.




Mario getting a newcomer doesn't automatically mean almost every single franchise will definitely get a newcomer, though I do believe the chances of more franchises getting a newcomer has increased a bit.

I'm still kind of iffy on Bandana Dee, given Sakurai's modesty. And then theres Krystal, whom Sakurai may not see as unique enough to add. It all depends on if the staff fighting is enough.

A DK newcomer is practically guaranteed.



Please tell me that part is just a joke.
Okay. Don't think that's likely, but I wouldn't mind all these newco-





Stop. Right now.
It was a Ridley joke. An anti-Ridley joke.


[No offense Ridley fans.)
 
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