Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
I will NEVER do 2 stocks
-
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Houston Smash Ultimate Thread
- Thread starter Xyro77
- Start date
GaiustheThief
Smash Ace
Ew I hate two stocks
It just doesn't seem like enough or a fair amount
Like
Not enough to adapt and comebacks and stuff
It just doesn't seem like enough or a fair amount
Like
Not enough to adapt and comebacks and stuff
RT
Smash Hero
Jerm, unfortunately, we'll never be able to enjoy the game for fun. Look at all the timeouts we had in the past few tourneys. Some people will camp just to win. They won't learn anything about a matchup, so they develop a "HERP DERP I DON'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE MATCHUP SO I WILL CAMP TO WIN" attitude. And the sad part is that it works.
I would love it if everyone played non-campy and had fun. Hell, I enjoy playing aggressively against all of you guys and not purposefully running the clock, because I actually learn something and slowly get better. But you know very well there are a few people that will be campy and make the game not be fun if given the smallest opportunity, even timing people out in friendlies.
It's a game problem and also a player attitude problem. The meta is stupid and campy if the players chose to play stupid and campy.
I would love it if everyone played non-campy and had fun. Hell, I enjoy playing aggressively against all of you guys and not purposefully running the clock, because I actually learn something and slowly get better. But you know very well there are a few people that will be campy and make the game not be fun if given the smallest opportunity, even timing people out in friendlies.
It's a game problem and also a player attitude problem. The meta is stupid and campy if the players chose to play stupid and campy.
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That's why it's 2/3 m8. And watch trela vs denti in dallas. The whole set.
RT, yea I expect that campier style of play. That's fine, boring, but fine. But taking away custom moves from a community where majority wants it, and is still very early in game development, with no reason other than the community might end up being lazy.. Before even seeing if that'll happen.. Is pretty lame
RT
Smash Hero
Honestly, the only REAL main reason I can back for banning is the logistical one. How can you enforce everyone to have all custom moves unlocked? What if a player doesn't have a 3DS to transfer moves, do you DQ or wait for a setup that has all moves unlocked? What if no one has that person's specific moves unlocked on their 3DS? DQ the person entirely? What if they are a newbie and didn't know? In addition to time spent for this and for equipment checking, it really is a huge headache to keep check from a TO side. There are so many "what if...?" scenarios, and someone will eventually find a way around it and cause drama.
After seeing this from both sides, if there was a way to guarantee that none of this will cause problems and waste time with no drama, then I could see a better stance for customs being legal. I am all for more variety, but if it becomes a hassle to maintain, is it really worth it? And I'm disregarding all the weird glitches and exploits people have found already and probably will find next week.
I truly don't care if they are on or off, but people need to have a good reason for their side of their argument. I want an informed decision.
After seeing this from both sides, if there was a way to guarantee that none of this will cause problems and waste time with no drama, then I could see a better stance for customs being legal. I am all for more variety, but if it becomes a hassle to maintain, is it really worth it? And I'm disregarding all the weird glitches and exploits people have found already and probably will find next week.
I truly don't care if they are on or off, but people need to have a good reason for their side of their argument. I want an informed decision.
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Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
It's selfish people wanting XYZ for themselves or friends. The EXACT same thing that happened with MK.
And when things go south, they bail or join another game.
And when things go south, they bail or join another game.
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Custom moves are player responsibility. Either bring a 3ds, or a wiiu with your set up. Its not a impossible thing, if people want it, they'll make it work. The two players try their best to get a set up where they both can play with their custom moves. If they can't, oh well, they already know the situation, and the longer they wait, the easier it'll be for them. Besides, most of the players that will really want custom moves, are 3DS players. Cause they've been only practicing their characters with the 3DS. So it'll have to be two wiiu only players that meet up, and have made custom set ups in two weeks that nobody can help them get set up with. I don't think that problem will come up too much. And, why knock it before we even tried?
RT
Smash Hero
As I said before, this is an issue where the discussion will never die. When they first revealed custom moves, I was hoping the community would disregard them like items, but boy was I wrong...
I honestly blame whoever decided to make custom moves drops able to dupe (even ones from the challenge board) and mix them with equip and hat drops and no shop system to buy them from. Terrible game design choice.
I honestly blame whoever decided to make custom moves drops able to dupe (even ones from the challenge board) and mix them with equip and hat drops and no shop system to buy them from. Terrible game design choice.
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Zano
Smash Master
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfbnqNHraFI&feature=youtu.be
I kinda hate that this only has views because I posted it on reddit. Now I know why people ***** that site
I kinda hate that this only has views because I posted it on reddit. Now I know why people ***** that site
Leddit is the way to get upboats and favs.
tl;dr illmatic post, **** facebook
ban Miis/custom moves, made simple one line point that's been said a trillion times.
Every wii u won't have every custom move. Simple.
tl;dr illmatic post, **** facebook
ban Miis/custom moves, made simple one line point that's been said a trillion times.
Every wii u won't have every custom move. Simple.
UltimateRazer
Smash Champion
I'm not making a stance here but how can you say majority of the community wants customs? Lmao. There's actually more movement for no customs minus ny/nj who just banned them themselves
Sync.
Smash Champion
Yeah there's no hope in this. I don't really understand why TOs aren't pushing more responsibility on the players. If you want your customs bring them to the tournament. Don't want to put in the effort? Too bad looks like you didn't want to win that badly. The Pokemon community (who have LITERAL 6 year olds playing competitively) are responsible enough to bring all their materials/pokemon to tournament. Who gives a **** about equality and making sure every player gets access to them. Bring a 3DS or know someone who has the moves unlocked on their system. Hell, have a master unlocked DS at the tournament for the TO. I'm really close to having all customs unlocked and would be HAPPY to give anyone a minute of my time to give them a custom load out at a tournament.
Sync.
Smash Champion
Just like bringing your controller, or 3DS or fight stick (for anyone that wants to bring the FGC into this ****) you need to be prepared to compete in ANYTHING. That's what it means to be a good competitor
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
We already covered that it is impossible to have a 3ds give every custom move to every WiiU.
The logistics don't line up and if you literally think players will be responsible enough to bring a full unlocked 3ds/WiiU you are dreaming. These dummies don't even read rules to the event they attend or listen to rules (spoken to them the day of the event) regarding food breaks.
The logistics don't line up and if you literally think players will be responsible enough to bring a full unlocked 3ds/WiiU you are dreaming. These dummies don't even read rules to the event they attend or listen to rules (spoken to them the day of the event) regarding food breaks.
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RT
Smash Hero
I can confirm Brawl dashdancing is in, but it seems easier to do? I dunno how to describe it.
Greninja's dair indeed cannot be canceled.
I think Shulk's artes last longer? I might be bad at keeping time.
Greninja's dair indeed cannot be canceled.
I think Shulk's artes last longer? I might be bad at keeping time.
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Player responsibility + tough luck stance, plus as I said before, if players give your "3DS minions" 5 minutes notice, they'll be able to give them a custom set. I think to make it fairest to you as a TO, your stance is BY X (e.g. 5pm) the night before tournament to submit sets that you would like to be available to you that you cannot provide yourself.
I don't own a 3DS, I'm borrowing someone elses, I plan to be in the US soon so I'll be having to give it back
I'm going to ask for a 3113 set for Marth, if there's not one ****** in Texas/Cali/Florida with a 3DS I know who can make it for me and if I get called for a WiiU without it do the 15-30 second job of transferring it over before a set starts, welp then I guess I'll just deal with it. Some people may be assholes and have 10 sets for each character they play (15 of them), but that's an extreme I don't see likely and if that's the case it should be their responsibility to carry around a 3DS for it.
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AvoiD
Smash Lord
S/o the the many people who showed up to GFC.
Razer's lucky af, customs are dumb, teching is impossible for me, and sync is still the nicest person I've ever met. Good games to all.
Razer's lucky af, customs are dumb, teching is impossible for me, and sync is still the nicest person I've ever met. Good games to all.
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
People who went to GFC, it had 12 entrants. I don't really wanna count this event because it's so small but people like BC put in work.
What do yall think?
What do yall think?
BC.
Smash Journeyman
People that want customs have customs. Even at custom-legal tournaments many players (top placing players) are just using default. As for these "dummies" you are describing - none are going to show up at a tournament and expect all customs to be on the systems. You think someone too dumb to read rules would automatically assume every custom is on every Wii U system? If they didn't read rules but bother to show up at the tournament, they probably don't care about customs.
BC.
Smash Journeyman
I can't answer this without being biased.
Zori
Smash Champion
It was really stacked but it's whatever is best
AvoiD
Smash Lord
Tbh I don't care. Zori's right about it being stacked, so I wouldn't mind if it was counted.
Teshie U
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2013
- Messages
- 1,594
Yea, honestly I don't see why any person without a 3DS would be all like "omg I wanna use jigglypuff custom pound for sure and i main this".
How would anyone who wants to use customs even be able to practice without a setup or 3DS?
Honestly, it is just like what Sync said. This community just isn't wiling to work hard at that kind of thing.
When it came to the MK ban, I saw respectable arguments on both sides, but I'm very disappointed in anyone pointing to stuff other than logistics. The issues with unlocking are the only thing truly separating customs from default moves. Its a pretty glaring issue, but we honestly have some jank **** in default moves anyway.
UltimateRazer
Smash Champion
Count that fish. Avoid got bodied. AGAIN. 2-0.
AvoiD
Smash Lord
Lol'd. F no and f u. In ya dreams UltimateBitch.
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Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Ok I guess I'll count it.
UltimateRazer
Smash Champion
Lol tight games tho. WII U THOLol'd. F no and f u. In ya dreams Ultimate*****.
AvoiD
Smash Lord
Mad fun games. Close too yo! Looking forward to it maaan.
z00ted
The Assault of Laughter ﷼
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2010
- Messages
- 10,800
There's some really good ideas in this thread. Kinda sad that Xyro only posts:
_____
I'm super in favor of what Sync mentioned about equality and how Pokemon runs their competitive events. Wanna use customs? Bring your own 3DS with the character's move palettes loaded up. But even if that's not a possible route for certain players (not owning a 3DS) I'm prettyyy sure if we don't blow custom moves off the face of the Earth before the Wii U version's even out - there's gonna be at least five people who unlock them all on their Wii U just out of sheer love and respect for their community (RT / Sync, etc). I also feel as though there's so many ways around the whole logistic argument but TOs are far too scared to even allow Smash to attempt to evolve. Well, I'm not.. so here's a few solutions that I've thought up over the course of all this for you and anyone else to consider, Allan:
1. Competitor brings their own 3DS. Which is basically the quickest solution to this entire debate. Would add possibly an extra 45 secs to a minute max on the entire set's run time.
2. Player mentions they prefer custom moves upon signing up for the tournament. I can see TOs writing this one off before the Wii U version even drops but take it into consideration for a second for the BEGINNING stages of Smash 4's competitive metagame. Someone walks up to the sign-up desk and just mentions that they want to use custom moves. Tournament Organizer stars their name or whatever to keep it in mind for when they want to play and strictly assigns them to whatever setup has custom moves unlocked (keep in mind this is for the entrants that don't own their own 3DS which would already be weeded out due to that body of entrants preferring them legal).
3. TOs could even take it a step further and ask players who bring setups for Wii U which characters have their entire custom moveset palette unlocked. Just assign people who used said character and want to use custom moves to the setup. This option will only be used for people who can't find a 3DS or didn't bring one on their own but at least it's available and can be implemented efficiently. No-one's going to be using obscure or crazy custom moves near the beginniing of Smash 4's tournament lifespan. TOs could just ask people who bring setups to have certain custom moves unlocked in preparation for the tournament. Competitively-viable ones. For instance, I'm sure plenty of people would want to use Bowser's Koopa Klaw that allows him to wave-dash/dash in mid-air but would they want to use Pikachu's quick attack that goes practically nowhere with zero-to little benefit? Of course not lol. I know this is kind of a stretch because of the "have them all / or don't use them at all" argument but people who want custom moves probably aren't going to even ***** about all of that because we'll be working w/ the tournament organizer in just getting them used in the first place. The "3113" setup Shaya was mentioning for Marth is genius and a great start. Keep in mind, it's just a START. It'll just be like this for the first few months until all custom moves or another alternative is available and everything catches on once people start getting excited seeing them used in tournament setting.
4. Have a "solve-all" 3DS available at the tournament. Looking at you, RT / Sync !! In the beginning stages of Smash 4's tournament scene this could allow them to be used instantly. Someone doesn't have a 3DS? Custom move Wii U setup not available? The tournament organizer calls out a match and hands them a 3DS (slicing off a ton of time/confusion - since he's already under the impression that they want to use custom moves and they explicitly stated that upon signing-up). Everyone keeps on jumping to logistics and efficiency but I honestly don't think it's just going to be too much of a problem. Sure, you can't TRANSFER ALL custom moves at once to a Wii U.. but everyone's forgetting that you CAN create a palette on the 3DS and just transfer it from there ^^. It'll take 30 secs max, just an extra menu to go through on a handheld lol and should solve a ton of problems !!
_____
Custom moves HAVE to be legal at the start of Smash 4's lifespan or they'll NEVER be considered down the line. A lot of our players are a sensationalist's wet dream. Brawl and the beginning of Smash 4 communities' knee jerk reaction to every little thing that pops up proves this. Pretty immature discussion regarding them in the future is almost guaranteed and we've also been proven to be extremely resistant to change in the past. We can't maim Smash 4 before it even gets a chance to breathe. What I'm trying to get across here is this: If we don't allow custom moves in the early stages and attempt to slow-burn it into players' mind as an acceptable "new-feature" to Smash that will take a bit of time to accept and develop? They'll surely die (instantly) once we eventually do start to unlock all of them and try to legalize them into competitive play in the future. Upsetting.. but people won't want to be bothered anymore out of laziness and already being comfortable w/ their tournament ruleset / environment.
Nintendo's not the best when it comes to creating competitive or "hardcore" games as of late but at least they're working w/ us. They threw us a bone w/ the Gamecube adapters and I feel like they're throwing us even more of a bone here. This isn't Marvel, it's Smash 4. A party-game initially designed for no real customization and balance at a minimum. But we're a strong ass community. Much more of one with looking at what we've got and making it WORK than any other one that I know of. That's part of the reason why i'm so conflicted over trying out a new game. Trust me, every single time I watch a Melee vid I feel beckoned to try it out. Just abandon this competitive-scene completely and start fresh somewhere new along with whoever wants to join me with mechanics and a playstyle in a game I'm far more suited for....
But I can't yet because I see potential here. Plus I have all of YOU GUYS that carried over from Brawl as some of the closest friends imaginable and we always made the best out of whatever we were given (especially you, Allan). I can't leave that. So it leaves me so confused as to why it can't even be given a shot once or at least a few times in tournament near the beginning when practically nothing's on the line. Custom moves will ONLY grow in favor of logistics being on their side rather than against them as time progresses and more people catch on. **** all the previous Smash traditions, **** old gen mentality, **** whatever NY/NJ is doing and focus on YOUR community in Houston and what they want. You want a new game? You've got it. Albeit, slightly disguised.. cause what you're trying to mold it into will stale very fast. Custom moves are that new game and will give Smash 4 life, it's just going to take a strong-minded and insanely experience tournament organizer to start it off before they gain wings.
I know it can work. Practically begging at this point, Allan please give them a chance !!
Happy Birthday!! <3<3
after Jerm writes out a ton of stuff in favor of custom moves and some new arguments that we've never heard prior to that moment but whatever lol. Almost everything's been covered and we're definitely beating a dead horse regarding logistics / efficiency in a tournament's run-time (despite them already ending late because the game's pretty slow lol) but Sync, Jerm and Shaya pretty much nailed it on the head with their arguments...
_____
I'm super in favor of what Sync mentioned about equality and how Pokemon runs their competitive events. Wanna use customs? Bring your own 3DS with the character's move palettes loaded up. But even if that's not a possible route for certain players (not owning a 3DS) I'm prettyyy sure if we don't blow custom moves off the face of the Earth before the Wii U version's even out - there's gonna be at least five people who unlock them all on their Wii U just out of sheer love and respect for their community (RT / Sync, etc). I also feel as though there's so many ways around the whole logistic argument but TOs are far too scared to even allow Smash to attempt to evolve. Well, I'm not.. so here's a few solutions that I've thought up over the course of all this for you and anyone else to consider, Allan:
1. Competitor brings their own 3DS. Which is basically the quickest solution to this entire debate. Would add possibly an extra 45 secs to a minute max on the entire set's run time.
2. Player mentions they prefer custom moves upon signing up for the tournament. I can see TOs writing this one off before the Wii U version even drops but take it into consideration for a second for the BEGINNING stages of Smash 4's competitive metagame. Someone walks up to the sign-up desk and just mentions that they want to use custom moves. Tournament Organizer stars their name or whatever to keep it in mind for when they want to play and strictly assigns them to whatever setup has custom moves unlocked (keep in mind this is for the entrants that don't own their own 3DS which would already be weeded out due to that body of entrants preferring them legal).
3. TOs could even take it a step further and ask players who bring setups for Wii U which characters have their entire custom moveset palette unlocked. Just assign people who used said character and want to use custom moves to the setup. This option will only be used for people who can't find a 3DS or didn't bring one on their own but at least it's available and can be implemented efficiently. No-one's going to be using obscure or crazy custom moves near the beginniing of Smash 4's tournament lifespan. TOs could just ask people who bring setups to have certain custom moves unlocked in preparation for the tournament. Competitively-viable ones. For instance, I'm sure plenty of people would want to use Bowser's Koopa Klaw that allows him to wave-dash/dash in mid-air but would they want to use Pikachu's quick attack that goes practically nowhere with zero-to little benefit? Of course not lol. I know this is kind of a stretch because of the "have them all / or don't use them at all" argument but people who want custom moves probably aren't going to even ***** about all of that because we'll be working w/ the tournament organizer in just getting them used in the first place. The "3113" setup Shaya was mentioning for Marth is genius and a great start. Keep in mind, it's just a START. It'll just be like this for the first few months until all custom moves or another alternative is available and everything catches on once people start getting excited seeing them used in tournament setting.
4. Have a "solve-all" 3DS available at the tournament. Looking at you, RT / Sync !! In the beginning stages of Smash 4's tournament scene this could allow them to be used instantly. Someone doesn't have a 3DS? Custom move Wii U setup not available? The tournament organizer calls out a match and hands them a 3DS (slicing off a ton of time/confusion - since he's already under the impression that they want to use custom moves and they explicitly stated that upon signing-up). Everyone keeps on jumping to logistics and efficiency but I honestly don't think it's just going to be too much of a problem. Sure, you can't TRANSFER ALL custom moves at once to a Wii U.. but everyone's forgetting that you CAN create a palette on the 3DS and just transfer it from there ^^. It'll take 30 secs max, just an extra menu to go through on a handheld lol and should solve a ton of problems !!
_____
Custom moves HAVE to be legal at the start of Smash 4's lifespan or they'll NEVER be considered down the line. A lot of our players are a sensationalist's wet dream. Brawl and the beginning of Smash 4 communities' knee jerk reaction to every little thing that pops up proves this. Pretty immature discussion regarding them in the future is almost guaranteed and we've also been proven to be extremely resistant to change in the past. We can't maim Smash 4 before it even gets a chance to breathe. What I'm trying to get across here is this: If we don't allow custom moves in the early stages and attempt to slow-burn it into players' mind as an acceptable "new-feature" to Smash that will take a bit of time to accept and develop? They'll surely die (instantly) once we eventually do start to unlock all of them and try to legalize them into competitive play in the future. Upsetting.. but people won't want to be bothered anymore out of laziness and already being comfortable w/ their tournament ruleset / environment.
Nintendo's not the best when it comes to creating competitive or "hardcore" games as of late but at least they're working w/ us. They threw us a bone w/ the Gamecube adapters and I feel like they're throwing us even more of a bone here. This isn't Marvel, it's Smash 4. A party-game initially designed for no real customization and balance at a minimum. But we're a strong ass community. Much more of one with looking at what we've got and making it WORK than any other one that I know of. That's part of the reason why i'm so conflicted over trying out a new game. Trust me, every single time I watch a Melee vid I feel beckoned to try it out. Just abandon this competitive-scene completely and start fresh somewhere new along with whoever wants to join me with mechanics and a playstyle in a game I'm far more suited for....
But I can't yet because I see potential here. Plus I have all of YOU GUYS that carried over from Brawl as some of the closest friends imaginable and we always made the best out of whatever we were given (especially you, Allan). I can't leave that. So it leaves me so confused as to why it can't even be given a shot once or at least a few times in tournament near the beginning when practically nothing's on the line. Custom moves will ONLY grow in favor of logistics being on their side rather than against them as time progresses and more people catch on. **** all the previous Smash traditions, **** old gen mentality, **** whatever NY/NJ is doing and focus on YOUR community in Houston and what they want. You want a new game? You've got it. Albeit, slightly disguised.. cause what you're trying to mold it into will stale very fast. Custom moves are that new game and will give Smash 4 life, it's just going to take a strong-minded and insanely experience tournament organizer to start it off before they gain wings.
I know it can work. Practically begging at this point, Allan please give them a chance !!
Happy Birthday!! <3<3
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Player-4
See you in 25 years
Smash 4 sucks
Zano
Smash Master
I just wanna smash some bros....
z00ted
The Assault of Laughter ﷼
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2010
- Messages
- 10,800