phi1ny3
Not the Mama
I agree, I'm just saying that his attributes aren't the result of a bad character design, just a different style of playing. You definitely have to think differently with marth than others.Absolutely true at higher level of play, his offense is crippled by any decent defensive option so its important to react rather than initiate the majority of the times, of course there are always exceptions matchups/players etc.
For example let's take Marth's greatest offensive option, the almight Fair.
Examples of decent defensive options that can go toe to toe withMarth's fair = Huge grab range (D3), Snakes Ftilt (A Snake can do this if they expect a Fair from marth from a distance and you eat a Knee, its weird, it prolly has to do with the fact that you have to SH first THEN fair and snake just ftilt AKA frame count), Peach's fsmash (at least vs double SH fair) , and generally block grab assuming the player IS human and will commit a mistake sooner or later. Or if your NEO or something.
MK can Dsmash repeatedly safely. Snake can ftilt pretty safely. d3 can spot dodge over and over to a certain extent.
Marth can up-B over and ove- wait no. Fsmash-- no wait hold on. Dsmash-- uhh. Upsmash--"..."
Here's the problem with Marth and 'camping': It doesn't work (purely opinionated of course).
Why: Marth's Best options for range require a hop that puts in you in the air in order to use his Fair, which in turn means you can't block for that split second while you finish your fair. I'm fully aware that you can do the Fair as you land but then that means you're in danger before the fair is executed. Running and shielding cripples this option, especially dtilt. Lately dtilt has NOT been too hot for that reason. On the semi-'rare' (rare because I yet to know anyone that can do it at will to stay at 0% while avoiding grabs) occasions of power shielding cripples Marth's pathetic attempt to 'camp'.
Sure you can do retreating Fair to someone who tries to run and shield...try doing that to a Snake with long range ftilts.
I suppose a grab right away when running and shielding opponents get too obvious is the solution but again...that's a reactive response.
However, he can camp IC's =). Don't get grabbed right?
One good point in keeping someone at max range is when an opponent is holding his shield and you do get to push someone away with anything tippered.
Thank god we're all human and don't always play perfect.
Cheers.
Actually I started noticing a trend with Marth players, it may just be a bad habit though. Many Marth's land IN FRONT of their opponent, fairing. But it's not by choice, either you just 'land' or fair. So you get grabbed. What does this have to do with marth's mobility? It's predictable. Many Marth's are so used to fast falling everything that it makes their landing point obvious. Sure there's pivot B but that thing is nowhere near as useful as say Snake's B pivot.
Maybe we should start incorporating more stalls?
iono...
I don't think people know what they're getting into when they play with Marth. Superficially the character seems easy to play, just keep someone at max range, use your entire moveset etc etc. But sometimes that's not enough, it requires something else. I guess you could say 'mindgames' but that's not the only thing.
Sorry people I'm not trying to sound pessimistic about Marth or anything, just pointing out things about our beloved character.
Let's work together to do something about it.
EDIT: On the issue of gimping sometimes it feels like Marth can do it only half way. Play with MK or ROB to get what im talking about.
I just don't agree with the posts that say that Marth's moveset means that you're relying on mindgames per se. I think that marth has good attributes that certainly make him a contender, but the fact that he has a very unforgivable linear game makes it so that obviously newer and less inexperienced players can't go full throttle with him immediately. But unlike some of the posts that have been said, I think that he certainly belongs in the place that he does in standings. I absolutely agree with how relatively inferior his options are vs. those higher than him, but that's why he's lower, amirite?