Homosexuality - Is It Right?

[lonejedi]

The point was that God asks Abraham to murder Isaac, and the Bible also clearly states that God tempts no man. The end doesn't justify the means. God still ordered Abraham to sin; whether or not the end result was actually someone being murdered is moot.

This is just one example of why Christian standards fail when put to its own test.

How is God tempting anyone? Do remember, this was before the Ten Commandments weremade. How is it murder if all along God knew the outcome.

 

[snex]

peeze you didnt even read numbers 31 did you?

god orders the hebrews to kill all men, WOMEN, AND CHILDREN, EXCEPT FOR THE VIRGIN GIRLS WHICH WERE TO BE USED AS WAR LOOT. if america did that, we would immediately lose any remaining support we have and we would be instantly attacked. this is the kind of thing hitler did, except of course he didnt use the virgin girls as loot.

 

[RDK]

How is God tempting anyone? Do remember, this was before the Ten Commandments weremade. How is it murder if all along God knew the outcome.

True, it was before the Ten Commandments, but does ordering someone to commit murder make it any less bad?

So apparently things like the Holocaust or the World Wars, or an 8-year old being stricken with terminal cancer are justified because all along, it's a part of God's plan, and he knows the outcome.

 

[Xsyven]

Well, we have a gay marriage topic and a gay rights topic and both seem to degrade into this: Is homosexuality morally correct?

And it seems like this thread is leading to: "Is Christianity correct?"

WE ALL KNOW THAT THE BIBLE HATES GAYS. Now here's the real challenge. Is homosexuality wrong in the eyes of non-believers?

 

[Peeze]

No actually im not near a bible.
Yet dont tell me america didnt kill women men and children. Have you heard of vietnam?

 

[snex]

No actually im not near a bible.
Yet dont tell me america didnt kill women men and children. Have you heard of vietnam?

are you claiming that what we did in vietnam was right? we didnt even kill ALL the women and children, we only killed ones that were suspected of being vietcong.

 

[lonejedi]

peeze you didnt even read numbers 31 did you?

god orders the hebrews to kill all men, WOMEN, AND CHILDREN, EXCEPT FOR THE VIRGIN GIRLS WHICH WERE TO BE USED AS WAR LOOT. if america did that, we would immediately lose any remaining support we have and we would be instantly attacked. this is the kind of thing hitler did, except of course he didnt use the virgin girls as loot.

15And Moses said to them, Have you let all the women live?

16Behold, these caused the Israelites by the counsel of Balaam to trespass and act treacherously against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and so a [smiting] plague came among the congregation of the Lord.(C)

17Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who is not a virgin.

18But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves.


Last time I checked, Moses wasn't God.

 

[RDK]

Moses was God's speakerphone, was he not? God relayed all his decrees to the Israelites through Moses.

 

[snex]

moses was taking orders from god. moses was also considered righteous in god's eyes. for somebody who claims to believe the bible, you sure dont know jack **** about what it says, do you?

 

[Xsyven]

I vote that the next person to mention God gets banned from the Debate Hall. God never, and will never be a valid argument in a serious debate. God is a personal opinion, not worldwide fact... unless, of course, the debate is about God. But unless you think God is a homosexual, I think we should leave him out of this.

 

[lonejedi]

True, it was before the Ten Commandments, but does ordering someone to commit murder make it any less bad?

So apparently things like the Holocaust or the World Wars, or an 8-year old being stricken with terminal cancer are justified because all along, it's a part of God's plan, and he knows the outcome.

Your comparisons are horrible. Notice people were actually killed in the Holocaust. Abraham never killed Isaac. And way to bring up the "God's Will" idea. This is a completely different road. I believe it's not God's will for this to happen. I believe in healing, and if since we're debating the ideas of the Bible, then so does God. Many people were healed.

 

[Peeze]

are you claiming that what we did in vietnam was right? we didnt even kill ALL the women and children, we only killed ones that were suspected of being vietcong.

no. I was proving you wrong. You said america doesnt do that. Why did america kill the vietcong people? cuz they were enemies correct? a hostile threat to american freedom yada yada. Similarly the midianites were a threat to the israelites, god protected his people. You cant call god wrong and yet call america right

 

[snex]

did god or did god not say to abraham "kill your son isaac" ?

a simple "yes" or "no" will do.

if the answer is "yes," then shut the **** up about you pretending to know what god would ask you to do.

 

[lonejedi]

moses was taking orders from god. moses was also considered righteous in god's eyes. for somebody who claims to believe the bible, you sure dont know jack **** about what it says, do you?

Moses also made mistakes just like everyone else. Now you're the one picking and choosing things. No where does it say God told Moses to do these things. Sure the Bible gives plenty of times where Godtold him to do things. But it's not stated here. Moses also hit the Rock more than God wanted, so Moses wasn't always following what God said.

Xzyven, as much as I agree with you that it'shard to debate with the Bible, since most don't believe it, Snex, and others brought this on themselves when they brough in contradictions. How can you debate contradictions if the Bible isn'tinvolved.

 

[snex]

no. I was proving you wrong. You said america doesnt do that. Why did america kill the vietcong people? cuz they were enemies correct? a hostile threat to american freedom yada yada. Similarly the midianites were a threat to the israelites, god protected his people. You cant call god wrong and yet call america right

i never said america was right. what i said was that if america did what the israelites did, we would be the evilest nation on earth. what we did to the vietnamese wasnt even half as bad. the vietnamese STILL EXIST, for one.

 

[RDK]

no. I was proving you wrong. You said america doesnt do that. Why did america kill the vietcong people? cuz they were enemies correct? a hostile threat to american freedom yada yada. Similarly the midianites were a threat to the israelites, god protected his people. You cant call god wrong and yet support america

America is not God. It's not all-powerful, and it's not all-loving, therefore it shouldn't be held up to the same standards as God.

Your comparisons are horrible. Notice people were actually killed in the Holocaust. Abraham never killed Isaac. And way to bring up the "God's Will" idea. This is a completely different road. I believe it's not God's will for this to happen. I believe in healing, and if since we're debating the ideas of the Bible, then so does God. Many people were healed.

But it's the principle of the matter. God still tempted / ordered / demanded Abraham to murder his son, when the Bible explicitly states that God does not tempt. The outcome is superfluous.

 

[lonejedi]

did god or did god not say to abraham "kill your son isaac" ?

a simple "yes" or "no" will do.

if the answer is "yes," then shut the **** up about you pretending to know what god would ask you to do.

Stop using this example. Seriously. Did God stop Abaraham from killing Isaac,Yes or no?

 

[Peeze]

Actually lonejedi(and im on your side too!) god told moses to do it(number 25:17) but notice why, because the midianites were harrassing the israelites. it was an act of self defense.

 

[Aesir]

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus is clearly saying the OT should be upheld and not ignored. So why do Christians ignore it? you shouldn't be it's divinly inspired by god.

16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

All is inspired by god so it's irrefutable.

 

[Xsyven]

Xzyven, as much as I agree with you that it'shard to debate with the Bible, since most don't believe it, Snex, and others brought this on themselves when they brough in contradictions. How can you debate contradictions if the Bible isn'tinvolved.

Honestly? I just want to hear a good debate on homosexuality. Not God and War. I don't want to tell you how to do your job or anything, but as the moderator of this room, you can at least steer people back on topic.

Sure, the original arguments were towards homosexuality, but it's gotten so for out of hand that it's not even about homosexuality anymore. It's about who's right, and who can make a bigger idiot out of the other guy.



So seriously. Guys. Make a new thread, or shut up. Back on topic:

I THINK BEING GAY IS OKAY. I'd like to say why I think it's okay, but honestly, I don't see any reason as to why it's not okay. Anyone dare to confront me? Remember-- this isn't a matter of god-- we already know his stance on it.

 

[snex]

Stop using this example. Seriously. Did God stop Abaraham from killing Isaac,Yes or no?

i notice you STILL havent answered the question. why are you a ****ing coward? god told somebody to kill. if god wants to do so again, god will.

Actually lonejedi(and im on your side too!) god told moses to do it(number 25:17) but notice why, because the midianites were harrassing the israelites. it was an act of self defense.

yeah, killing children in self-defense. thats the god of christianity for you.

 

[RDK]

Actually lonejedi(and im on your side too!) god told moses to do it(number 25:17) but notice why, because the midianites were harrassing the israelites. it was an act of self defense.

So killing men, mothers, and children, ****** virgin females, and wiping entire nations out of existence is suddenly "self-defense"?

Stop using this example. Seriously. Did God stop Abaraham from killing Isaac,Yes or no?

Does it or does it not say in the Bible that God doesn't tempt?

 

[lonejedi]

Actually lonejedi(and im on your side too!) god told moses to do it(number 25:17) but notice why, because the midianites were harrassing the israelites. it was an act of self defense.

It says no where that God told moses to do it, that is still Moses talking.

The only part of this scripture where God tells anyone to do anything is here.

Avenge the Israelites on the Midianites; afterward you shall be gathered to your [departed] people.

Avenging is part of war. Avenge means to pay back someone, when they had already done something to you. The Israelites, likePeeze stated earlier, were fighting back.

 

[lonejedi]

So killing men, mothers, and children, ****** virgin females, and wiping entire nations out of existence is suddenly "self-defense"?



Does it or does it not say in the Bible that God doesn't tempt?

How is that temptation. How is testing someone, tempting someone?

 

[Peeze]

Actually re-reading it vs 7 says they initially only killed the men as god commanded, then moses went further and killed the kids and thook the virgins, but nowhere does it say **** the virgins.

 

[lonejedi]

i notice you STILL havent answered the question. why are you a ****ing coward? god told somebody to kill. if god wants to do so again, god will.



yeah, killing children in self-defense. thats the god of christianity for you.

I'm not a coward, God did tell Abraham to kill Isaac. Answer my question.

Snex, have you ever even looked into long ago wars like this? The Israelites weren't the only country to do this. Almost ALL WARS were exactly the same.

 

[snex]

How is that temptation. How is testing someone, tempting someone?

if thats not tempting somebody, then neither is it tempting if god asked you to **** a little girl. so now youre still forced to answer the question. if god told you to **** a little girl, what would you do?

Actually re-reading it vs 7 says they initially only killed the men as god commanded, then moses went further and killed the kids and thook the virgins, but nowhere does it say **** the virgins.

it does not say that. it says the just killed the men, and moses was angry. and it doesnt need to say they ***** them, youd have to be an idiot to think that they saved VIRGIN GIRLS AS WAR LOOT for any purpose other than sex that they certainly would not consent to.

 

[snex]

I'm not a coward, God did tell Abraham to kill Isaac.

then dont assert he would not ask you to **** a little girl. god can do what he wants and you agree that what god wants is moral.

Snex, have you ever even looked into long ago wars like this? The Israelites weren't the only country to do this. Almost ALL WARS were exactly the same.

and all of them claimed to be acting on the authority of their fake gods.

but since you claim the hebrews had the authority of a REAL god who LOVES EVERYBODY, you need to answer up for this. why didnt the hebrews get held to a higher standard if their god was real? why would they act just like everybody else who had fake gods unless their god was also fake?

 

[lonejedi]

if thats not tempting somebody, then neither is it tempting if god asked you to **** a little girl. so now youre still forced to answer the question. if god told you to **** a little girl, what would you do?


it does not say that. it says the just killed the men, and moses was angry. and it doesnt need to say they ***** them, youd have to be an idiot to think that they saved VIRGIN GIRLS AS WAR LOOT for any purpose other than sex that they certainly would not consent to.

This is coming from the guy who has a Registered Sexual offender T-shirt. I would not **** a little Girl, because God would never ask me to do this. I know I know you're going to say BUT GOD MIGHT BE TESTING YOU.

 

[lonejedi]

then dont assert he would not ask you to **** a little girl. god can do what he wants and you agree that what god wants is moral.



and all of them claimed to be acting on the authority of their fake gods.

but since you claim the hebrews had the authority of a REAL god who LOVES EVERYBODY, you need to answer up for this. why didnt the hebrews get held to a higher standard if their god was real? why would they act just like everybody else who had fake gods unless their god was also fake?

Again, no where in that scripture does God say Kill the women, and the children. No where. Show me where it says that.

 

[Peeze]

SNEX:You serious? Most girls were used a slave girls and house girls. Remember the reason they were fighting the midianites was because the midianite women seduced some israelites to have sex with them, knowing it was against the law. They fought them to get rid of the immoral women not to get more, but im an idiot so.
I already answered that question about the ****** little girls.

 

[AltF4]

Xsyven's right. Steer the ship back away from tangent island!


Allow me to try: (This may sound familiar to some)

There are three degrees to which someone can be against something: (these are just my terms)

Level 1: You do not find the action wrong in any way, but do not happen to do it yourself.
-For example, I find nothing morally wrong with musicals, yet I do not watch them myself.

Level 2: You find the action wrong, but do not care if others do it.
-For example, I find the TV show "The Wiggles" quite reprehensible, yet I do not advocate that it be removed from the air.

Level 3: You find something so wrong that you don't want to allow others to do it.
-Easy example is murder. It's wrong, and I don't want others doing it.



Now, why would anyone be level 3 against Gay Marriage or being gay in general? It in no way harms anyone. I can understand that your religious beliefs may lead you to being Level 2 against it, but why level 3? Why should others not be allowed to do it?

 

[snex]

This is coming from the guy who has a Registered Sexual offender T-shirt. I would not **** a little Girl, because God would never ask me to do this. I know I know you're going to say BUT GOD MIGHT BE TESTING YOU.

since you seem to know the mind of god with perfect accuracy, why do we need the bible? lets just ask lonejedi what god thinks!

Again, no where in that scripture does God say Kill the women, and the children. No where. Show me where it says that.

you were already given the verse, in num 25. god orders them all to be killed. apparently keeping the virgin girls as war loot was moses' clever idea, but in num 31 god specifically states how they should be portioned out, so clearly he didnt oppose the idea.

 

[lonejedi]

since you seem to know the mind of god with perfect accuracy, why do we need the bible? lets just ask lonejedi what god thinks!



you were already given the verse, in num 25. god orders them all to be killed. apparently keeping the virgin girls as war loot was moses' clever idea, but in num 31 god specifically states how they should be portioned out, so clearly he didnt oppose the idea.

I was given no verse, you gave me the chapter, I gave you the verse that God only says to kill the Midianites

 

[snex]

SNEX:You serious? Most girls were used a slave girls and house girls. Remember the reason they were fighting the midianites was because the midianite women seduced some israelites to have sex with them, knowing it was against the law. They fought them to get rid of the immoral women not to get more, but im an idiot so.
I already answered that question about the ****** little girls.

why did they only want the VIRGINS then? non-virgin girls cant be slaves? what about the boys? boys cant be slaves? your answer offers no reason that only VIRGIN girls be kept.

lonejedi read the freaking thread. i am not reposting the verse that you can just scroll up to read. srsly quit being lazy.

 

[lonejedi]

I just went through all your posts Snex, and you never mention a verse, the only verse that has been mentioned is that of Peeze, and I already refuted that, and then he agreed with me. Lol lazy, you're the one who just typed srsly.

 

[Xsyven]

I just went through all your posts Snex, and you never mention a verse, the only verse that has been mentioned is that of Peeze, and I already refuted that, and then he agreed with me. Lol lazy, you're the one who just typed srsly.

He hasn't mentioned homosexuality, either. Neither have you or Peeze.

 

[Crimson King]

Lone jedi, shut the **** up.

Snex, shut the **** up.

Peeze, shut the **** up.

This is a topic on homosexuality and NONE of you have said it within the last page. I see no difference between you three and common spammers right now. You want to argue about the bible? I am sure there is a topic on it. Anyone more mention of bible verses and I will get you booted.

 

[snex]

He hasn't mentioned homosexuality, either. Neither have you or Peeze.

yes i have. nobody replied.

 

[lonejedi]

He hasn't mentioned homosexuality, either. Neither have you or Peeze.

I take this as partially my fault for getting this off course. I apologize, but I was just pointing out how RDK hadn'tbrought anything up contradictory, and then I got out of control. Lets get back on topic then.