Homosexuality - Is It Right?

[Xsyven]

My point is that maybe he didn't realize he was homosexual until a certain point. It had to be developed by personal experiences.

It was a magical experience that every boy goes through. Puberty. I have no doubt in my mind you didn't have a personal experience that told you that you were heterosexual.

I had crushes on girls all through elementary school, just because it's what boys did. Once puberty rolled around, and I began to be sexually attracted to people, it flopped the other way around.

Psychologically, everyone 'starts straight', since physically, they CAN'T be sexually attracted to someone until puberty.

 

[arrowhead]

since physically, they CAN'T be sexually attracted to someone until puberty.

then i must have started puberty at age 7

 

[Xsyven]

then i must have started puberty at age 7

You wanted to have sex in second grade? You understand seven year olds can't even produce semen, right?

 

[arrowhead]

You wanted to have sex in second grade? You understand seven year olds can't even produce semen, right?

i was a very interesting child XD

 

[Blackshadow]

My point is that maybe he didn't realize he was homosexual until a certain point. It had to be developed by personal experiences.

So, this would be like the 40 year old husband with 3 kids that, in some circumstance or another, "realizes" they prefer men? I think that'd make sense.

 

[1337marth]

I am against it, but it is not up to me, if people don't bother me about it, I am fine, they are ok.

 

[arrowhead]

I am against it, but it is not up to me, if people don't bother me about it, I am fine, they are ok.

why are you against it

 

[1337marth]

why are you against it

It goes against my religion and my values, and how I have grown up.

 

[RDK]

So, this would be like the 40 year old husband with 3 kids that, in some circumstance or another, "realizes" they prefer men? I think that'd make sense.

Uh, yeah, basically. Sexual preferences can change over time, just like any other preference.

 

[arrowhead]

It goes against my religion and my values, and how I have grown up.

because your religion says so? why does your religion say it's wrong?
how does it go against your values?
just because you grow up believing in something doesn't make it right

you need to explain yourself

 

[Xsyven]

Uh, yeah, basically. Sexual preferences can change over time, just like any other preference.

...cite this, please.

because your religion says so? why does your religion say it's wrong?
how does it go against your values?
just because you grow up believing in something doesn't make it right

you need to explain yourself

Religion is the only argument that doesn't need explaining-- which makes it such a bad argument on the matter.

 

[blazedaces]

Sorry it took me so long to post, but I've been extremely busy these past few weeks. Anyway, aftre re-evaluating the evidence I have come to the conclusion which agrees with the American Psychology Association

What Causes a Person To Have a Particular Sexual Orientation?

There are numerous theories about the origins of a person's sexual orientation. Most scientists today agree
that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and
biological factors. In most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an early age. There is also considerable
recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role
in a person's sexuality.

and further more

Is Sexual Orientation a Choice?
No, human beings cannot choose to be either gay or straight. For most people, sexual orientation emerges in
early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our
feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily
changed.
Can Therapy Change Sexual Orientation?

No; even though most homosexuals live successful, happy lives, some homosexual or bisexual people may
seek to change their sexual orientation through therapy, often coerced by family members or religious groups
to try and do so. The reality is that homosexuality is not an illness. It does not require treatment and is not changeable. However, not all gay, lesbian, and bisexual people who seek assistance from a mental health
professional want to change their sexual orientation. Gay, lesbian, and bisexual people may seek
psychological help with the coming out process or for strategies to deal with prejudice, but most go into
therapy for the same reasons and life issues that bring straight people to mental health professionals.

I just want to point out that this used to be my opinion on the subject a long time ago, but due to a previous debate in this forum I changed my mind. The evidence presented and the evidence I sought (like the ones you have provided HERE) was not found. It is also a fault on my part for simply not researching enough previously. I thank you for helping me to further understand the truth on the matter.

The entire discussion of environment and upbringing are just thinly veiled attacks on homosexuality to begin with.

The assumption is that everyone is born heterosexual, and that something had to come in and CHANGE them into being gay. It's a form of discrimination. It's a subtle way that people dehumanize gays, by making it sound like there's something "wrong" with them. "Something must have happened to them in order to make them gay".

Look, Alt, while I agree this is often the case, it's just as much a discrimination on your part to assume ALL people who consider this point of view feel this way. I honestly try to be as objective as possible. That means doubting myself and even the side I might agree with.

In this case, the evidence shows otherwise, but what if it were the case that everyone was indeed born heterosexual and homosexuality was simply a choice? If the evidence was as flimsy/inconclusive as I previously thought then my conclusion would be the same.

-blazed

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

Blazed, that entire post was just a big heap of nothing. The "evidence" you have just provided is saying what has been said over the past 23 pages of this debate.

Homosexuality is just as much environmental as Heterosexuality. Despite the general uselessness of Blazes post, there is one thing worth repeating. "Sexual orientation is shaped at an early age". What is trying to be said in that sentence is that young children make observations that contribute to their future behavior in all parts of life, including sexuality.

If a child sees homosexuality while it is growing up, it may think that homosexuality is correct and heterosexuality is wrong. These prejudices may be overcome when the child reaches puberty and hormones dictate which gender to be attracted to.

 

[blazedaces]

Blazed, that entire post was just a big heap of nothing. The "evidence" you have just provided is saying what has been said over the past 23 pages of this debate.

My post was meant as a response to those I was debating with earlier, not as providing new evidence to the debate. In fact, nothing was new, it was just sources bowser had provided a few pages earlier. Still, how was it "nothing"? Did you even look at the second source? There's quite a few studies. Real numbers with real statistical analysis, null hypotheses, p-values, etc.

Homosexuality is just as much environmental as Heterosexuality. Despite the general uselessness of Blazes post, there is one thing worth repeating. "Sexual orientation is shaped at an early age". What is trying to be said in that sentence is that young children make observations that contribute to their future behavior in all parts of life, including sexuality.

If a child sees homosexuality while it is growing up, it may think that homosexuality is correct and heterosexuality is wrong. These prejudices may be overcome when the child reaches puberty and hormones dictate which gender to be attracted to.

What do you mean homosexuality or heterosexuality are "environmental"? Do you mean influenced by environmental factors? Where in my post did I contest this statement? The only thing I pointed towards is a reputable source saying that one's sexual preference is based on a complex combination of environmental and biological factors.

-blazed

 

[EC_Joey]

If a child sees homosexuality while it is growing up, it may think that homosexuality is correct and heterosexuality is wrong. These prejudices may be overcome when the child reaches puberty and hormones dictate which gender to be attracted to.

You're contradicting yourself when you say sexual preference is environmental, and when you say hormones will decide which gender a person will be attracted to.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

What do you mean homosexuality or heterosexuality are "environmental"? Do you mean influenced by environmental factors? Where in my post did I contest this statement? The only thing I pointed towards is a reputable source saying that one's sexual preference is based on a complex combination of environmental and biological factors.

What I meant was if you are going to say homosexuality is caused by one's environment, then it is fair to say the same for heterosexuality.

You're contradicting yourself when you say sexual preference is environmental, and when you say hormones will decide which gender a person will be attracted to.

I was saying that one may THINK they are one sexual orientation or another until they reach puberty and begin to have real sexual emotions.

I believe that pre-adolescent children only base their attractions on environmental stimuli and teachings from their family.

 

[blazedaces]

What I meant was if you are going to say homosexuality is caused by one's environment, then it is fair to say the same for heterosexuality.

O...k? I believe the term is sexual preference. Is someone saying otherwise?

I was saying that one may THINK they are one sexual orientation or another until they reach puberty and begin to have real sexual emotions.

I believe that pre-adolescent children only base their attractions on environmental stimuli and teachings from their family.

Based on what evidence exactly? What does this have to do with anything? The people questioned in these studies are not children. No one is asking children about what gender they're attracted towards.

I'm a bit confused as to where you're going with this, but perhaps you were simply arguing against what I said though I think I've cleared that up a bit?

-blazed

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

Yeah blaze, I was never arguing with you. I was just saying that posting info from another site is kind of useless.

The last part of that post was just a seperate thing that didn't have anything to do with the current topic.

 

[cman]

What I meant was if you are going to say homosexuality is caused by one's environment, then it is fair to say the same for heterosexuality.

I was saying that one may THINK they are one sexual orientation or another until they reach puberty and begin to have real sexual emotions.

I believe that pre-adolescent children only base their attractions on environmental stimuli and teachings from their family.

If that is true, then it merely means attitude towards homosexuality and heterosexuality are shaped early in life, while sexual attraction is determined at puberty. That is, in essence, what you said, and contradicts your intended (i think) meaning. Could you try re-wording it a bit to make it more clear.

 

[Xsyven]

I was saying that one may THINK they are one sexual orientation or another until they reach puberty and begin to have real sexual emotions.

I believe that pre-adolescent children only base their attractions on environmental stimuli and teachings from their family.

...yeah, pre-adolescent children aren't sexually active though. So therefore, are neither gay nor straight. Once hormones kick in, it's 100% nature and chance.

So yeah, you just contradicted yourself pretty hard, there.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

...yeah, pre-adolescent children aren't sexually active though. So therefore, are neither gay nor straight. Once hormones kick in, it's 100% nature and chance.

So yeah, you just contradicted yourself pretty hard, there.

I don't see the contradiction. What I was saying is children who say they "like" each other or are attracted to each other base that on how they were raised.

I don't believe that pre-adolescent children are either heterosexual or homosexual, not saying that one isn't pre-determined to be one or the other. Just that it doesn't appear until after puberty.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

...yeah, pre-adolescent children aren't sexually active though. So therefore, are neither gay nor straight. Once hormones kick in, it's 100% nature and chance.

So yeah, you just contradicted yourself pretty hard, there.

Are you saying then, that there is no "latent sexuality" in pre-adolescent children that is only manifested in the presence of those hormones?

 

[Xsyven]

Pretty much, yeah. Kids like each other because that's what they're supposed to do. I agree with Tim on that argument, but really, it doesn't determine sexual preference. When I was prepubescent, I had crushes on girls. Post puberty, I liked guys.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

I don't understand, you say you don't think there is "latent sexuality" (perhaps in the wiring of the brain), yet you say you agree with Tim who doesn't rule out the possibility that there IS latent sexuality that only becomes manifest when hormones kick in. I would think that "gay or straight," to the extent that such binary classification makes sense, is mostly hard-wired from the beginning, and is only turned on when hormones tell it to. So there is a predisposition, but it's just not being acted upon yet, so you're free to be influenced by "what you're supposed to do" i.e. like girls.