kailo34ce
Smash Lord
actually that makes zero sense
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HOBO 35(mk banned): Project WHOBO 4 (phase 1)! FULL RESULTS ARE UP!!!!!!
- Thread starter Xyro77
- Start date
Blitz Comet
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2012
- Messages
- 13
K so now we have to hide which chars we're going to use or risk being subjected to xyros bad seeding.
and
You do realize you just said one thing and turned around and said another right?
You do realize that i realize that you keep avoiding some of my questions right?
You do realize that i realize that you realize that i realize you're an idiot right?
You do?
nighty night.
and
You do realize you just said one thing and turned around and said another right?
You do realize that i realize that you keep avoiding some of my questions right?
You do realize that i realize that you realize that i realize you're an idiot right?
You do?
nighty night.
kailo34ce
Smash Lord
saying night night doesnt make you win an argument btw
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
You don't have to hide anything. Go your main or don't. It may or may not effect your seed. I guarantee you that if razer went 100% Ganon u would be pissed if I gave him top seed.
I also didn't avoid any questions. I either didn't understand what you were getting at(I ain't gonna comment on something I don't understand) or I couldn't read the vocabulary/sentence structure you produced.
I also didn't avoid any questions. I either didn't understand what you were getting at(I ain't gonna comment on something I don't understand) or I couldn't read the vocabulary/sentence structure you produced.
^thats kind of....dumb isn't it? Razer choosing not to use Snake isn't the same as Razer being unable to use Snake. If Gnes and Razer were in danger of losing a set or the tournament because of fooling around, they would go back to serious business strategies. Not the same as Pwii being unable to use him best character no matter what.
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
It's the seeding we were talking about. He was upset Gnes razer got top seed and they went tl and diddy. I didn't know that happened until pretty much now.
Regardless of seeding. People placed pretty much were they we're supposed to place. Gnes razer Trela denti top 4. Illmatic jnig in 5th-7th......ect. It all worked out like normal.
It's the usual nerds complaining like always.
Regardless of seeding. People placed pretty much were they we're supposed to place. Gnes razer Trela denti top 4. Illmatic jnig in 5th-7th......ect. It all worked out like normal.
It's the usual nerds complaining like always.
kailo34ce
Smash Lord
basically he is wrong for assuming they shouldnt get top seed. they are a national level team. they deserved top seed anyway. just ignore that whole part xyro
Dojo
Smash Champion
What would I be seeded? Just curious.
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
prob A tier. not sure where but somewhere in there
kailo34ce
Smash Lord
i remember him getting like 3-4 at a pretty big hobo with kirby/diddy/falco or somethin.mk banned
Dojo
Smash Champion
Diddy/Kirby.
I got 1st at a PBT with all of Dallas when they were strong.
4th at Hobo 16. Razer 2nd round... worked my way through losers.
3rd at Hobo 17. Razer 2nd round... did it again.
I got 1st at a PBT with all of Dallas when they were strong.
4th at Hobo 16. Razer 2nd round... worked my way through losers.
3rd at Hobo 17. Razer 2nd round... did it again.
Blitz Comet
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2012
- Messages
- 13
No i'm upset because you decided thatIt's the seeding we were talking about. He was upset Gnes razer got top seed and they went tl and diddy. I didn't know that happened until pretty much now.
Regardless of seeding. People placed pretty much were they we're supposed to place. Gnes razer Trela denti top 4. Illmatic jnig in 5th-7th......ect. It all worked out like normal.
It's the usual nerds complaining like always.
Players that are ranked lower and are teaming for the first time ever should get better seeding than players who are ranked higher than them, are static partners and have gotten 2nd(which is basically first if gnes enters doubles). My problem is that you saw that as fine. You are a TO allan if multiple people can look at the bracket and ask why that happened having never toed in their life than you as our main TO should be able to see it's wrong without someone having to tell you.
kailo34ce
Smash Lord
i like this post.
this completely proves my point.
razer 2nd round? obviously dojo got seeded low because no metaknight. which is fine because guess what, he still managed to break top 5, obviously he beat some good players.
why? because he is good.
would he have gotten first if he fought razer later on? probably not because razer could still pull a win. would he have done better? well you cant do alot better than 3rd without beating everyone so probably not.
let this be a lesson to all of you, you can either hang with the best, or you cant, which is what ive been saying on this thread.
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
as i said 2 times already, i must have overlooked it. it happens.
Denti
Smash Master
Will my set with Gnes be uploaded? I was told that was on the recording setup
Gnes
Smash Master
Uhhh...but we won...
yeaaaaa...
Rondo of Swords ^_^
But seriously character change should not effect seeding to such a degree in teams. Idk how you could argue against me/tim getting first seed regardless to who were playing. I disagreed with pj/pwii getting a low seed but i didn't pressure you on it because its your tournament and quite honestly I knew they could pull through and place well which they did. That still doesn't excuse the questionable seeding.
RT
Smash Hero
Yes, I have it. I upload vids generally in the order they are recorded. It'll probably be up late tonight/early tomorrow.
Just be patient.
As far as seeding, when has it ever in the history of smash been based on characters that are used? It's based on player skill. The fact Gnes+Razer managed to get first while using non-mains for a majority of sets should prove they are skilled and why they deserved first seed. Come on now.
I recall Azen using a ton of characters in Melee...does that mean he should have gotten different seeds each time he changed characters? Same thing for Isai, he sometimes used Fox and Sheik instead of Falcon. I'm pretty sure their skill level didn't magically drop because of a character change.
What should have hapened is that people kept their seeding from previous tourneys, because the teams with MKs should theoretically do worse since no more MKs, they would place lower, and gradually lose their high seeding anyways.
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
so no matter who u two went, u should get top seed?
...........................no
...........................no
Well, you don't know what characters they are going to go, and since we don't have to say up front whom we're using, there's no way for you to know ahead of time until after the bracket is made and matches have started.
Dojo
Smash Champion
^this.
I mean if they still managed to win, that would still make them the best team there... lol.
I mean if they still managed to win, that would still make them the best team there... lol.
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
of course i wouldnt know up front, but now that i DO know, ill seed accordingly.
So u mean its fair for 2nd seed team and 3rd seed team to keep their seed while the top seed team goes joke characters? Sorry, that aint happening again. if u wanna go joke chars for a match or two thats fine but 99% of the tournament....hell no. There are plenty of other REAL teams that deserve first seed if the 1st seeded team is just gonna be dumb about it.
EDIT: gnes razer get first seed because they are prob top 3 team in the USA. Thats under the assumption they use diddy/snake. Diddy(razer) and toonlink(gnes) is NOT a top seed. if you cant see this, im done talking about this.
Seeding should only be done based on PR/Player Skill.
Many top players that use several characters probably aren't even sure what characters they'll be using in certain MUs until the time actually comes. I doubt anyone other than solo mains know exactly who they are going to use against every player before the tourny even begins. A lot of people base decisions on knee-jerk reactions.
The point you are missing Xyro is they STILL got first. So even with those characters they were STILL the best team there capable of beating everyone. Therefore top seed is still justified.
Many top players that use several characters probably aren't even sure what characters they'll be using in certain MUs until the time actually comes. I doubt anyone other than solo mains know exactly who they are going to use against every player before the tourny even begins. A lot of people base decisions on knee-jerk reactions.
The point you are missing Xyro is they STILL got first. So even with those characters they were STILL the best team there capable of beating everyone. Therefore top seed is still justified.
All I'm saying, is that you can't know beforehand if they are going to go "joke" characters or not unless you start asking us up front what characters we'll be using. Once the bracket is made (under the assumptions that everyone is using their mains which should be the assumptions), you can't change what they do. If they go joke characters and win or lose, that's on them, not the TO.
Leaf.
Gets up to speed!
I sometimes wonder...1: Razer+Gnes==/
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
we dont have a teams PR. we generally go by which team has won he most.
thats fine. if they do it again, they wont be top seed. its simple.
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
i didnt see the GF for teams but i was told snake+diddy was used ONCE aka in the GFs. so they went joke chars until GFs.
RT
Smash Hero
^This. Unless telling the TO what character you're using is a requirement...let me see, nope.
Xyro, in all seriousness, are you trolling or do you really believe that? If you're being serious, you may have destroyed your credibility as a good TO. Seeding is not based on characters used.
Dojo
Smash Champion
Lmfao you're so ******** sometimes, geez. I guess it doesn't matter tbh, they'll joke around and still **** on practically everyone with whoever because everybody else here sucks.
Xyro one last thing you are not considering.
They probably went secondaries just because they could. Some might see this as arrogance but either way top players do this all the time.
However, I am sure if they had actually been in danger of losing at any time during the tourny they would have reverted back to Diddy/Snake right away. While it's true this is an assumption, it's a reasonable one to make and I think it would be fair to assume this while seeding.
They probably went secondaries just because they could. Some might see this as arrogance but either way top players do this all the time.
However, I am sure if they had actually been in danger of losing at any time during the tourny they would have reverted back to Diddy/Snake right away. While it's true this is an assumption, it's a reasonable one to make and I think it would be fair to assume this while seeding.
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
i never said telling me a character up front is needed/not needed/required....ect. get that **** out of your head. stop choosing posts that fit your attack towards me.^This. Unless telling the TO what character you're using is a requirement...let me see, nope.
Xyro, in all seriousness, are you trolling or do you really believe that? If you're being serious, you may have destroyed your credibility as a good TO. Seeding is not based on characters used.
boom. i agree
sounds good
RT
Smash Hero
I can't believe what I'm reading. Your job as a TO is to seed players based on how well they placed in previous tourneys, regardless of what character they use. It doesn't matter if the top seeded team decides to use Ganon+Ganon...that is their choice and you're not allowed to force them otherwise. You're not supposed to let your bias over what character they use determine the seeding.
At this point, I really want other TOs to respond to this. Xyro, you're trying to set a very bad example for other TOs to follow.
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
DWI
THIS^ is why you are not a TO. You dont even know what my job is LOL.
I agree with this if it were 1 or 2 matches. But when 99% of their matches are Ganon+Ganon, you mean to tell me you dont have a problem with GANON+GANON having first seed when Denti+Alsm(olimar/diddy aka people who are serious and are going serious characters) get 2nd or 3rd? I HIGHLY doubt denti alsm would like having a lower seed when the "top seed" is going ganon 99% of the time.
i guess this type of thing is what separates GOOD TOs from nobodies like you. We dont go "by the books" just because thats "how its done." We are capable of using common sense as well as going "by the books"(if needed). Something you have ALWAYS lacked.
Assuming those results are snake+diddy, yes.
Im not and didnt. Gnes/razer got top seed. lol
i dont care what they say. I do what i want. always have, always will.
If they are good TOs, they will take what they deem good about my methods and use it while trashing what they deem bad.
Dojo
Smash Champion
Ok so what if Gnes/Razer beat Denti/Alsm with double Ganon on a regular basis.
Denti/ALSM would still get higher seed because of character?
Denti/ALSM would still get higher seed because of character?
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
RT
Smash Hero
Here we go...
Find me one REPUTABLE TO that agrees with you and I promise I won't mention this ever again.
It doesn't matter what I or you or Denti or ALAM thnks...if the first seeded team, which earned their seed from winning past tourneys, decide to go random+random, that is their choice. Gea told me there was a tourney back in Melee where Isai went all Yoshi in pools? Does this mean he didn't deserve first seed in that pool when it was assigned?
No Xyro, a bad TO does things that aren't well-established, like allowing items or banned stages. So I guess all those tourneys with all stages and items have good TOs because they chose not to "go by the book" and used their uninformed common sense?
You're free to do what you want provided there is a good explanation, not "just because I said so." Imagine if cops gave tickets "just because."Imagine You would contest that ticket in a heartbeat.
At this point, the only lesson here is to NOT do what you did.
kailo34ce
Smash Lord
i just want to say, as a person whos opinion is worth more than all of yours combined, allan is right about everything except the concept of seeding gnes and razer lower because of TL. that being said quit confusing allan with your random attacks.
most tournaments are seeded poorly.
allan runs good tournaments.
the seeding at allans tournaments is not always perfect.
but its always based on some sort of reasoning.
and both pj and pwii(R.I.P.) are usually wrong always.
most tournaments are seeded poorly.
allan runs good tournaments.
the seeding at allans tournaments is not always perfect.
but its always based on some sort of reasoning.
and both pj and pwii(R.I.P.) are usually wrong always.
kailo34ce
Smash Lord
and furthermore there is literally a seeding chart for brackets, 8,16,32,64,etc. if you want the PR to be a true "PR" like NFL PRs etc. your seeding would follow those guidelines.
but its not common practice to do this and there are reasons why
the issue is Location seeding and other local formats, (brothers/roommates/teammates etc) these factors overrule PRs in most cases because it is the general consensus of the community to seed for more interesting results (e.g. if t-rex and 3000 entered a bracket you would tend to put them on different sides esp when they were winning because they are brothers/always play/teammates)
other things that hold PR into wild inconsistencies is matchups/stages/and things of that sort
in chess everyone has an even playing field, and sports(the foundation of PR) is evenly matched. however fighting games are not. this adds many different values into the PR equation which effects the results in general.
there is always a mental bias and it is unavoidable as long as you have a TO seeding and entering, unless they are a tourney threat (like if gnes was the TO)
so putting all these factors into consideration the PR is simply a novelty for the community to have based on past results, rather than any sort of hardcore tournament based 100% accurate projection of skill.
and because of these reasons PR seeding is simply a guideline
but its not common practice to do this and there are reasons why
the issue is Location seeding and other local formats, (brothers/roommates/teammates etc) these factors overrule PRs in most cases because it is the general consensus of the community to seed for more interesting results (e.g. if t-rex and 3000 entered a bracket you would tend to put them on different sides esp when they were winning because they are brothers/always play/teammates)
other things that hold PR into wild inconsistencies is matchups/stages/and things of that sort
in chess everyone has an even playing field, and sports(the foundation of PR) is evenly matched. however fighting games are not. this adds many different values into the PR equation which effects the results in general.
there is always a mental bias and it is unavoidable as long as you have a TO seeding and entering, unless they are a tourney threat (like if gnes was the TO)
so putting all these factors into consideration the PR is simply a novelty for the community to have based on past results, rather than any sort of hardcore tournament based 100% accurate projection of skill.
and because of these reasons PR seeding is simply a guideline