hit a snag; looking to climb that next mountain.

[Rubyiris]

I've gone about 8 months with zero improvement, March being the last time I've had any sort of measurable improvement. Since then, I've been playing about par. Sometimes below. (G2, the last three tournaments in AZ.) Until recently, I had just shrugged it off. "Eh, I had an off day. I'll prepare a little better and bring my A-game next month." Sort of thing. Recently, however, I've been doubting myself, and falling in to old habits. All the work I put in to bettering myself as a person, and as a player has been quickly been reversing itself, and it's time to fix that before any more irreversible damage is done.

There aren't any major flaws in my game play. I just have certain obstacles that I haven't been able to overcome. They include, but aren't limited to:

*being unable to finish my food.
*sub-par spacing, and adaptation.
*burning out, and becoming mentally and physically fatigued too quickly
*being stubborn, and unfocused when it comes to accepting advice.

Just some quick things to note:

*I will be keeping physical notes of everything written in this thread, and any other ideas I have. I'm taking Stabs approach, because I believe it's an awesome idea.

*I don't play people very often because of my unique life situation. Being a dorm student at job corps and effectively being on house arrest 4 days a week really limits my potential for smashfests. I do, however, practice tech skill and **** noobs from 4pm to 5pm, and from 6:30pm to 9:30pm on a daily basis, as my schedule allows. Any advice regarding "play with other smashers more" is effectively useless, unfortunately.

*If you're a troll looking to make a joke out of me, you're going to be disappointed.

 

[Deleted member]

Obviously, whatever you're doing isn't working.

First, you need to cover up any weaknesses you're having. For you, that means learning how to edge guard better, set up edge guards better, and not killing yourself. You suicide more than any player I've ever seen. Scar included.

Second, step away from the game for a while. Find a better mentality that doesn't involve games, but rather focuses on your own self-improvement. Lose more weight, get a proper amount of sleep, eat healthy, and do some minor exercise like walking. Try to go to new places when you do and expose yourself to new experiences. Try to find happiness outside of smash and become a more functional person. Your body and mind function as one unit in a vast number of ways, and not taking good care of yourself is going to hurt your performance at everything you do. Smash, yeah, but everything else you do too. As soon as you take better care of yourself mentally and physically, you should see a notable improvement with your schoolwork, social relationships, and smash as well.

Once you're functioning at your personal best, go back to the game and give it another go from the beginning. Start with the very basics and try to see the game with new eyes. "This is smash bros. It's essentially a fighting game based on being the king of the hill. This is Mario, he has attacks. Let's look and see what those attacks do." etc. It sounds ******** but being jaded from the game is a good way to get sloppy or to stop thinking and to make stupid mistakes.

http://www.ehow.com/how_4441842_find-out-what-makes-happy.html

Read it and do it. Like actually and literally do what it says as if it's a command, and write things out when it says to and so on. Follow it to the letter. Be open and completely honest and accept your answers for what they are. Think about it for a good week. After a week has passed, come back and tell us what you came up with.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

i'm not really sure how you can evaluate on how big or small your flaws are when you are unable to succeed beyond the level youre at. i understand your able to see some of your flaws, but there could easily still be MAJOR flaws that you aren't aware of at all.

 

[Prince_Abu]

just pick up a controller and play more smash

 

[TheManaLord]

A. do you do good at other things in life?

if yes, why are you good at those things

if no, you are a loser you cant be better

 

[t3h Icy]

You need confidence. Your skill in everything in the world is limited if you don't have confidence.

 

[Rubyiris]

@trahh: most, if not all of my losses are from an accumulation of small mistakes adding up to stocks lost earlier than they probably should have, but I don't have any glaringly major weaknesses when it comes to my actual game play. I'm just not as refined as a more professional player.

@Mana: I'm good at a fair few things, but that's from years of hard work and perserverence. As for natural talent, and ability, that isn't something I really have.

@Umbreon: I'll talk to you more in-depth about that over aim, or something. It's not a subject I like to talk about publically.

@icy: that's easier said, than done. I don't even know what true confidence is. I've gone my entire life substituting price and ego for the illusion of confidence.

 

[leffen]

Obviously, whatever you're doing isn't working.

First, you need to cover up any weaknesses you're having. For you, that means learning how to edge guard better, set up edge guards better, and not killing yourself. You suicide more than any player I've ever seen. Scar included.

Second, step away from the game for a while. Find a better mentality that doesn't involve games, but rather focuses on your own self-improvement. Lose more weight, get a proper amount of sleep, eat healthy, and do some minor exercise like walking. Try to go to new places when you do and expose yourself to new experiences. Try to find happiness outside of smash and become a more functional person. Your body and mind function as one unit in a vast number of ways, and not taking good care of yourself is going to hurt your performance at everything you do. Smash, yeah, but everything else you do too. As soon as you take better care of yourself mentally and physically, you should see a notable improvement with your schoolwork, social relationships, and smash as well.

Once you're functioning at your personal best, go back to the game and give it another go from the beginning. Start with the very basics and try to see the game with new eyes. "This is smash bros. It's essentially a fighting game based on being the king of the hill. This is Mario, he has attacks. Let's look and see what those attacks do." etc. It sounds ******** but being jaded from the game is a good way to get sloppy or to stop thinking and to make stupid mistakes.

http://www.ehow.com/how_4441842_find-out-what-makes-happy.html

Read it and do it. Like actually and literally do what it says as if it's a command, and write things out when it says to and so on. Follow it to the letter. Be open and completely honest and accept your answers for what they are. Think about it for a good week. After a week has passed, come back and tell us what you came up with.

quoting for truth

 

[Rubyiris]

I've been pretty healthy for the past 4 months. Diet, and exercise, working on school, and other life things, but whenever I really evaluate myself, the more I realize just how much I enjoy smash and how few non-smsh things engage me, and how nearly every other aspect of my life irritates me.

I spend nearly every waking moment of my life thinking about smash. Even when working, I can't really focus as well as I possibly could be. The only reason I'm in school in the first place is to get a job to support my smash career. Smash has been my favorite game, and my life for a decade, and for as long as Melee exists, I don't want that to change.

It's hard for me when people suggest doing other things, because in all honesty, smash IS what I want to do. If that's sad, I don't really care. It's my life.

 

[Aber]

play with a purpose

 

[Prince_Abu]

I've been pretty healthy for the past 4 months. Diet, and exercise, working on school, and other life things, but whenever I really evaluate myself, the more I realize just how much I enjoy smash and how few non-smsh things engage me, and how nearly every other aspect of my life irritates me.

I spend nearly every waking moment of my life thinking about smash. Even when working, I can't really focus as well as I possibly could be. The only reason I'm in school in the first place is to get a job to support my smash career. Smash has been my favorite game, and my life for a decade, and for as long as Melee exists, I don't want that to change.

It's hard for me when people suggest doing other things, because in all honesty, smash IS what I want to do. If that's sad, I don't really care. It's my life.

lmao wtf this is a ****in 10 yr old childrens game

 

[Rubyiris]

I try. The players in AZ are pretty inpatient, so I usually can't really get effective, targeted practice in. I do when I'm on my own, but there are plenty of things I just don't get to really perfect

 

[Rubyiris]

lmao wtf this is a ****in 10 yr old childrens game

Haters gonna hate

 

[t3h Icy]

You're basically the second coming of Mew2King, only that he knows stuff and is an incredibly smart player. You need to take some time off from Smash to develop yourself in other ways.

For me, I main Sheik and I play the bare minimum necessary to keep my tech skill flawless (for my level), and I otherwise only play during smashfests and tournament, but I still improve each time I play. Spend some time getting into good shape, find a way to gain self-confidence, go meet some girls, become skilled in other hobbies, and be happy.

 

[Rubyiris]

I have a girlfriend, I've been on a diet for 4 months, and I've lost 35 pounds, and I have several other hobbies.

<_<;

Also you really underestimate my level of smash knowledge. I know a lot more than my player "skill" would lead you to believe.

 

[JOS.fm]

i think maybe you should watch youtube vids of your worst matchups beating up on Falco, and then jot down how the combo or situation started that got Falco killed.

when you play those noobs, teach 'em ways in which to get around your pressure. in that way, maybe you will recognize counter strategies against your yourself.

 

[the_CAM_factor]

play with weights on your fingers, dbz it up.

 

[Rubyiris]

When I watch my videos its Tue same general stuff. I lost because either

A. I let them recover too often
B. I killed myself (usually putting myself in a stupid position and getting gimped more than real self destructs)
C. I played like a ******* and just straight up lost.

I do what I can with bks and computers, but I never really get to get the practice I REALLY need.

Mindset is a problem too. *shrug *

 

[KAOSTAR]

u may not be respecting your opponent, too concerned with losing. even pros get bodied, just gotta learn from it.

 

[-Philip Coast Philip-]

Rubyiris,

You gotta step back and change/find a way to change in a different way. By 'step back' I don't necessarily mean stop playing smash, I just mean stop playing it in the way you have been.

Say you knew all the matchups and had flawless tech skill - you can still be beaten. One of the points of skill is in knowing how to use your skill.

This can be learned from different areas in your life.

I'd say Umbreon's advice has the right direction, but maybe the wrong end-goal about it. It's just too harsh and about the act of dominating things, rather than leading toward something deeper. It basically sounds like what I just said above about the flaw in trying to be more perfect - it can only get you so far. There are things you don't need to be able to do to still win. It's not one over the other though; it's more of a trifecta of knowledge, skill, and mindset. Simply put.

Some personal milestones that expanded my abilities in the game. Most are skill-based, but I think the in-game examples can translate to real-world examples as well.

-Learning to legitimately have fun while playing Smash64 with others while subconsciously limiting myself so I didn't play to win. Basically, I was better than everyone else around (even to the point of winning one-handed). But that was no fun for me (after awhile), and definitely no fun for people around me. Figuring out a way to integrate the two so we could both play together (and in good spirit) formed a connection that deepened my understanding of game play.

-Becoming good at a more simplified version of Smash: Smash64. Smash64 allowed me to focus on just spacing and flexibility. And, I pretty much taught myself the game (discovered all my own combos, played with all characters). That growth gave me confidence and ability to do the same in Melee. And those skills got way better. Also, playing one-handed - it allowed me to focus on mindgames. I pulled off a lot more spaced fsmashes than I did with two-handed play. As a Samus-only main in Melee, eventually these skills got translated into confidence that allowed me to pick up other characters really fast. I had barely ever played Marth before and I somehow 4-stocked a kid's Falcon first game. It just happened.

-Having a life-changing experience. It happened. But the personal growth gained from that translated into many things - I just never saw things the same. I could think through things far differently: My best mindgames and understanding of the game came long after I stopped playing.


Or, you know, you could just stop playing entirely. What's to lose? Answering that question can provide you with something far more valuable than what the game can teach you.

Hope that helps.

 

[Divinokage]

You did say earlier that you play to be flashy and it doesn't matter if you lose if you lost in style. However, I don't think anyone thinks that way especially in a competition, if you lost then you lost and that's that for you. Even if you did cool combos while losing it actually makes you look silly imo. With that mindset, you'll definitely find yourself off-stage a lot and if you miss something then obviously you'll die. So with that said, you have to go back a little bit and learn to control your character a lot better and not fail all possible techniques depending on the situation. Your style will reflect how you play regardless, a camper trying to look cool will again look silly as hell because it's not something he's used to.. though my point is that just stay natural. A player's style will look a certain way because it's his personality flowing through the gameplay.

Just remember and for everyone. Rule #1 Don't ****ing SD!! Control yourself, learn to be more consistent. When accidental SDs do happen whether it's from a miss input or some controller weirdness then never make that same mistake again or at least try not to.

 

[Rubyiris]

Last three posts are legit as hell.

Thanks.

 

[bolt.]

play with weights on your fingers, dbz it up.

LOL... this guy

and ruby, just keep playing and be open minded! =) You got this.

 

[t3h Icy]

I have a girlfriend, I've been on a diet for 4 months, and I've lost 35 pounds, and I have several other hobbies.

<_<;

Also you really underestimate my level of smash knowledge. I know a lot more than my player "skill" would lead you to believe.

You're still missing two.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh, the smash64 thing reminds me, play other stuff when you play smash. I highly suggest FFA with all stages allowed. Not only is it a lot more fun outright, it helps you to react to weird situations.

And yes, you can stick to falco in FFA. he's still stupid broken there too.

 

[Rubyiris]

We also turn on items, sometimes. :3

Falco is so broken lol.

@Icy:

Which am I missing?

 

[KAOSTAR]

its easy to fail when u are "trying to be technical" if u are flashy or technical it will naturally come out when u play to win, ie don't get hit, if u got punished for something don't try it again just to prove you can do it, simply think of the best way to get another hit, another kill.

stop trying to prove something, u don't have to prove **** to anybody except yourself.

you probably need some humility, in order to be a good winner you have to be a good loser. its ok to lose, its not the end of your career. once your fear of losing when you are giving it your all goes away, the only factor will be you vs the opponent.

I learned from watching mvc3 videos that sometimes, u just get ****ed up, move on, play your best next set. professionals are the players who get ****ed up less often, but everybody gets bodied at one point or another.

always respect your opponent and don't have the mindset that you can't or shouldn't lose, underestimating people is a good way to psyche yourself out, losing the mental battle from the start.

 

[Rubyiris]

I'm never going to stop trying to be a technical beast.

Just sayin'.

Definitely agree that I need to stop letting the salt run through my veins, though.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Then thats your problem. Stop "trying to be technical" It alters your decisions for the worst. From what Ive been told, ppl generally arent impressed with the technicals. Playing intelligently is much more appealing.

Playing technically shouldnt be your goal, if its your style, it will happen. but do what you need to do to get the combo, the kill. Playing technically often is just you trying to impress people, which means you have another factor working against you. keep it simple, you vs the opponent.

Im telling you this from experience, ive got quite the technical fox, just sayin, but at the end of the day, a win is a win and a loss is a loss.

edit:its not even about the salt, its just about respect. take it seriously, they probably are trying, why would you feel that you shouldnt be.

Ive become way more consistent and even more technical when I stopped trying to be technical. It keeps your goals in perspective. hit that niggga more than he hits you lol. when I was trying to do technical things, I would get frustrated from almost nothing, things like messing up shine turn arounds in between stocks. None of that was even important. focus on not getting hit, and taking stocks, dont even worry about the outcome of the match.

 

[Acryte]

Yo man just focus on tightening up your game (which can be hard to do if you're opponents aren't good enough to force you to since it doesn't make much difference if its ****** vs still ******). Don't you get to play axe and the AZ crew often though? So you got good players you can practice with. Also make it a point to communicate with others about what went on during matches so you can learn from each other, they'll notice the mistakes and problems you have and can apply it to your game vs people you aren't playing against generally just have to watch a few matches and make general suggestions. It's not specific to your current level or what it feels like to be playing against you, so yea. The advice of fellow players is much more helpful.

 

[Rubyiris]

Then thats your problem. Stop "trying to be technical" It alters your decisions for the worst. From what Ive been told, ppl generally arent impressed with the technicals. Playing intelligently is much more appealing.

Playing technically shouldnt be your goal, if its your style, it will happen. but do what you need to do to get the combo, the kill. Playing technically often is just you trying to impress people, which means you have another factor working against you. keep it simple, you vs the opponent.

Im telling you this from experience, ive got quite the technical fox, just sayin, but at the end of the day, a win is a win and a loss is a loss.

edit:its not even about the salt, its just about respect. take it seriously, they probably are trying, why would you feel that you shouldnt be.

Ive become way more consistent and even more technical when I stopped trying to be technical. It keeps your goals in perspective. hit that niggga more than he hits you lol. when I was trying to do technical things, I would get frustrated from almost nothing, things like messing up shine turn arounds in between stocks. None of that was even important. focus on not getting hit, and taking stocks, dont even worry about the outcome of the match.

Actually, impressing people has never really been my goal. I do stuff because I think it looks sick as ****, and I get bored when I play otherwise. Playing "optimally" bores me. *Shrug.*

Whenever I think about smash, it's like "why should I do all of this baiting, etc, when I can just go ****ing kick this *****?" Losing be damned, if I'm enjoying myself.

The salt comment does have relevancy when it comes to respect. When I lose to certain players, I.E. people I believe to be below me, I get mad salty. I don't give them the respect they probably deserve, and I sometimes even go out of my way to undermine their victories, which is very low of me, and hypocritical.

@Acryte: Actually, I don't. Axe/Tai/Taj/Wobles live about 120 miles away from me, and people who live 2-10 miles away won't even take time out of their day to smash with me, even if I'm the one doing the travelling. I don't have a car, and rely on our states ABSOLUTELY GARBAGE transit system. I'm also a resident of a ridiculously strict dorm with a curfew. Many people aren't even off work by the time I have to go back home, and Mon/Tues/Thurs, I can't even leave the premises. The neighborhood I live in is particularly sketch, so some people won't even come near my area to visit me on open nights, so I'm stuck alone. We don't get together for weekly fests much anymore, either, and sometimes people fail to tell me about happenings. I'm forced to play by myself, or with random noobs at my dorm, just to keep consistent.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Actually, impressing people has never really been my goal. I do stuff because I think it looks sick as ****, and I get bored when I play otherwise. Playing "optimally" bores me. *Shrug.*

Whenever I think about smash, it's like "why should I do all of this baiting, etc, when I can just go ****ing kick this *****?" Losing be damned, if I'm enjoying myself.

You arent actually trying to get better. You have just been improving as a response to the amount of time you have put into the game. The end is different than the mean, dont waste everybodys time with these posts if you are going to say things like this. Im not mad or tryna get on you or anything, but when it comes to getting better at melee, its often about playing smarter and more efficiently, that how you beat people who are good, doing those things better than the other person. If thats not what you are trying to do its obvious that you arent actively trying to improve, you just want to be able to do more things.....practice more tech skill, the long boring way, but in the end it pays off. Thats all you can do with the decisions that you have made....imo.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

Whenever I think about smash, it's like "why should I do all of this baiting, etc, when I can just go ****ing kick this *****?" Losing be damned, if I'm enjoying myself.

but you made this thread, so you must not be enjoying yourself ;o

 

[Zankoku]

Optimal play is the most difficult thing. Flashy play is just covering up the inability to make the best possible decision with "hey at least I look cool".

 

[danieljosebatista]

Hey man, there's been a lot of good advice already given just gonna throw in my two cents. I'm not that good yet and you'd destroy me if we played, but I do know a thing or two about competitive mindsets and improvement in general. First off, I want to address what you just posted about being forced to play with noobs and not having good players around who want to play with you.

Don't disregard the noobs man. Teach them, make them good. Sure not all of them have it in them, but if they're getting ***** and still want to play there must be at least a few of them who are dedicated enough to want to be good. Dr. Peepee just said in his thread that he plans to train a few of his local falcos in Mango-like shine pressure so he can practice against it lol.

Either way, it sounds to me like the biggest problem here is your mentality. You need a better one. The point of the game is to have fun. Sure play to win, I'm not at all advocating playing to lose, but if you're actively dwelling on the fact you aren't improving instead of actively figuring out WHY you'll continue to be frustrated.

Have fun losing. I'm serious. When you play someone better than you, challenge yourself to take one more stock than you did the game before. If that's not happening, figure out what you're doing wrong or falling into that is causing you to lose so badly. No one likes to lose, but when you play people much better than you it's bound to happen. Figure out why, and don't dwell on it, fix it. You mentioned you like technical play, but it might not always be the best option. Learn to use it when appropriate and hold off on it when it gets you killed.

The last thing I'll say is that the game itself does not change. It hasn't changed for ten years, what changes are the players. Ultimately the biggest factor is your mindset.

 

[Rubyiris]

You arent actually trying to get better. You have just been improving as a response to the amount of time you have put into the game. The end is different than the mean, dont waste everybodys time with these posts if you are going to say things like this. Im not mad or tryna get on you or anything, but when it comes to getting better at melee, its often about playing smarter and more efficiently, that how you beat people who are good, doing those things better than the other person. If thats not what you are trying to do its obvious that you arent actively trying to improve, you just want to be able to do more things.....practice more tech skill, the long boring way, but in the end it pays off. Thats all you can do with the decisions that you have made....imo.

I want to maintain a healthy balance of both. I want to be able to play smarter, but I also don't want to play in a borning, optimal way. I want to improve my spacing, my ability to finish my food, etc, but I also want to be a flashy mother****er. I want to shoot as few lasers are humanly possible. ****, most of the time I only laser for edgeguards, floating Peach, and for laser resets. I want to play similarly Axe/Mango. I don't want to give a **** about whats optimal. I want to outplay my opponents on my own terms, and losing be damned if I look awesome in the process. The difference is that rather than being a crowd pleaser, I'm playing from the heart.

but you made this thread, so you must not be enjoying yourself ;o

I am for the most part. I get salty when I lose to people who I was better than.

Optimal play is the most difficult thing. Flashy play is just covering up the inability to make the best possible decision with "hey at least I look cool".

Generally, yes, but how to you explain people who legit enjoy looking awesome more than anything else?

I play ITG/DJ Max/O2Jam/SMO/GunZ/Guilty Gear/Melty Blood AA. Being fast as ****, and flashy IS my MO. It's not a cop out. I used to play lame as ****, but it got boring.

Hey man, there's been a lot of good advice already given just gonna throw in my two cents. I'm not that good yet and you'd destroy me if we played, but I do know a thing or two about competitive mindsets and improvement in general. First off, I want to address what you just posted about being forced to play with noobs and not having good players around who want to play with you.

Don't disregard the noobs man. Teach them, make them good. Sure not all of them have it in them, but if they're getting ***** and still want to play there must be at least a few of them who are dedicated enough to want to be good. Dr. Peepee just said in his thread that he plans to train a few of his local falcos in Mango-like shine pressure so he can practice against it lol.

Either way, it sounds to me like the biggest problem here is your mentality. You need a better one. The point of the game is to have fun. Sure play to win, I'm not at all advocating playing to lose, but if you're actively dwelling on the fact you aren't improving instead of actively figuring out WHY you'll continue to be frustrated.

Have fun losing. I'm serious. When you play someone better than you, challenge yourself to take one more stock than you did the game before. If that's not happening, figure out what you're doing wrong or falling into that is causing you to lose so badly. No one likes to lose, but when you play people much better than you it's bound to happen. Figure out why, and don't dwell on it, fix it. You mentioned you like technical play, but it might not always be the best option. Learn to use it when appropriate and hold off on it when it gets you killed.

The last thing I'll say is that the game itself does not change. It hasn't changed for ten years, what changes are the players. Ultimately the biggest factor is your mindset.

I know my mindset is the problem, lol, amongst some other game-play related things. I'm not denying it at all. Also, if these noobs were interested in learning, they wouldn't be noobs. They would be newbies. There IS a difference between the two.

 

[danieljosebatista]

What's the difference between a noob and a newbie? I dunno we're all players and anyone trying to improve is worth playing with. Are you saying they all just play for fun and no one actually wants to improve?

 

[Beat!]

Generally speaking, "newbie" is synonymous with "beginner", where as a "noob" is someone who has played for a long time, and still sucks.

That's the distinction I've learned, at least.

 

[Rubyiris]

Noobs are people who are generally obnoxious, and incapable of learning. They think they're good, and they're prideful and egotistical, but in reality they aren't.

Newbs are humble and actively seek out advice and actively try to better themselves as a person, and a player.

 

[rawrimamonster]

My best advice for when you plateau is to look for your bad habits and what you keep repeatedly getting punished for.

Are you getting grabbed a lot? then bait grabs to learn how to dodge and anticipate them.

Are you gettin combo'd a lot? work on your DI timing and reaction times. I used to have a problem where my brain would just QUIT mid match and my fingers would freeze when I hit a wall. You need to learn to stop that wall from slappin you around like a bish. Just keep your mind focused on the match, watch what your opponents doing and bait and punish.

Are you just not progressing the match to your favor? stop being over defensive, you're letting the opponent do all the pressure work thus keeping yourself at a disavantage. Spacing has many definitions within smash, spacing your pressure and controlling that zone is very important. Otherwise you're gonna get a train run on ya.

eating right helps that "wall" moment too believe it or not. Your brain cant function if you're not getting the right nutrients.