His World* Sonic Moveset Analysis/Speculation Thread *UPDATED 9/14/14*

[NinjaLink]

I believe only Sonic's is affected at the moment, it might be a coding error perhaps?
Are you posting vids up of the other characters?

Every character is on my YouTube right now. I have a playlist.

 

[infomon]

re: one spindash affecting the other

Might not be a "coding error" per se. Remember that in Brawl, as soon as side-B or down-B entered an SDR, they were the same move with the same stale-move effect. This is likely still the case, so that no matter what custom you have for side-B, once it's the SDR it's the down-B.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

re: one spindash affecting the other

Might not be a "coding error" per se. Remember that in Brawl, as soon as side-B or down-B entered an SDR, they were the same move with the same stale-move effect. This is likely still the case, so that no matter what custom you have for side-B, once it's the SDR it's the down-B.

But, but..

SDR for SC is multihit whereas the one for SD is a single one.

And they STILL share stale-move negation? ARGH!

About the Spinshot: IIRC, Cyberman has some footage of it in a few games (for example, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRjj9vK4e-Q @3:30). It's still in.

 

[Kinzer]

Based Orochi finding vidjo evidence of Spinshot staying in the new game.

But, hey, if you want to save people trouble of having to find a specific time on Youtube, you should add this notation at the end of the URL:

&t=XXmYYs

"XX" is minutes. For example, here it would be 03 for three minutes. YY is seconds, so... you probably want it to be at 28, actually. For some reason, loading it at a set time actually makes it skip a few frames. If you don't want people to be missing what you're trying to show off, giving 2 seconds for the video to properly buffer and display is a good habit.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

But, but..

SDR for SC is multihit whereas the one for SD is a single one.

And they STILL share stale-move negation? ARGH!

About the Spinshot: IIRC, Cyberman has some footage of it in a few games (for example, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRjj9vK4e-Q @3:30). It's still in.

Seems like a trick of the eyes to me.

Is it executed differently in 3DS? You jump directly after you release the charge, correct? Doesn't seem to work, in the video right there it just seems like a normal jump out of a spin while holding left.

 

[Camalange]

Looked like a spinshot to me.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Looked like a spinshot to me.

It also looked like to everyone like there was a massive amount of landing lag on every single move and character in the game, but clearly we can see when playing it that is not the case.

That's why I'm asking about its execution, so I can be sure, but as of right now I cannot retain momentum in to a jump from a spin/spin jump, after some excessive attempting.

 

[Camalange]

It also looked like to everyone like there was a massive amount of landing lag on every single move and character in the game, but clearly we can see when playing it that is not the case.

That's why I'm asking about its execution, so I can be sure, but as of right now I cannot retain momentum in to a jump from a spin/spin jump, after some excessive attempting.

Anyone coming from Brawl has a sense for the application of autocanceling. The first people to get their hands on Sm4sh were just Melee heads so of course they blew it out of proportion.

From that video clip, Sonic retains his momentum. It looks just like a spinshot to me. I could be wrong, but other people have claimed to have done it and I'm seeing video evidence that seems to support it.

Again, I'd test it myself if I could. This is why more Brawl Sonic mains need their hands on the game.

EDIT: omg crashboards kept ****ing up this post I think it's finally good now

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

yea that's definitely a spin shot at 3:30. Also you don't need a C stick to spinshoot as i used to do it with wiimote. Basically you need to time the attack or jump button just as sonic releases side-B and he should transfer the pop momentum into his jump. I'm assuming he simply slide his finger over to the attack button as he was releasing the side B. as far as doing it with down B.... you'll need a C stick for that.

also don't worry Camalange, once friday hits i'll be in the lab seeing what brawl ATs transferred over or were altered in execution to a heavy degree. I had only about 6 minutes of play time with him 2 weeks ago but as the controls weren't mapped the way i would have them to use sonic i couldn't really test out too many brawl sonic ATs.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Based Orochi finding vidjo evidence of Spinshot staying in the new game.

But, hey, if you want to save people trouble of having to find a specific time on Youtube, you should add this notation at the end of the URL:

&t=XXmYYs

"XX" is minutes. For example, here it would be 03 for three minutes. YY is seconds, so... you probably want it to be at 28, actually. For some reason, loading it at a set time actually makes it skip a few frames. If you don't want people to be missing what you're trying to show off, giving 2 seconds for the video to properly buffer and display is a good habit.

I actually know that, it's just that I'm too lazy to click on the share tab and select the "start from here" or w/e it was so it creates the link automatically

Also, here:

 

[True Blue]

One of the things that makes a spin shot a spin shot is the momentum you gain while NOT having a hit box. So that was DEFINITELY a spin shot since his animations changed from Spin mode to regular Jump Spinning Animation when you do a Double Jump in the air.
I mean just trust ALL the people that MAINED him in BRAWL. Like, we know what we are talking about. Other people can be right and informative and progress the metagame as well. Juuuuuust sayin'.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

One of the things that makes a spin shot a spin shot is the momentum you gain while NOT having a hit box. So that was DEFINITELY a spin shot since his animations changed from Spin mode to regular Jump Spinning Animation when you do a Double Jump in the air.
I mean just trust ALL the people that MAINED him in BRAWL. Like, we know what we are talking about. Other people can be right and informative and progress the metagame as well. Juuuuuust sayin'.

Woah, bro. Chill out. I'm aware of that. Don't get so offended. I've been pretty public about the fact I just started playing Sonic in Smash 4, so it's not like I'm trying to rule my observations like an iron fist over the experienced Sonic players.

That's why I asked about its execution, because clearly I'm having trouble executing it.

 

[infomon]

ya we're being really hard on Zipzo for some reason lol

 

[Camalange]

Woah, bro. Chill out. I'm aware of that. Don't get so offended. I've been pretty public about the fact I just started playing Sonic in Smash 4, so it's not like I'm trying to rule my observations like an iron fist over the experienced Sonic players.

That's why I asked about its execution, because clearly I'm having trouble executing it.

I apologize if I inadvertently started any bashing. When I said "This is why more Brawl Sonic mains need their hands on the game" I didn't mean to target you specifically. I just think there are miscommunications and if the game was just RELEASED already, we could have everyone on the same page, including those with prior Brawl experience, testing and confirming prior ATs.

Not trying to call out anyone else, but Zipzo has been kind enough to deal with our Sonic 'tude and share as much as he can. Let's try our best to work together here, and once we all have the game, then we can thoroughly back ourselves up.

 

[True Blue]

Sorry for going overboard I guess, just sounded like even though everyone agreed it was a spin shot that you were kinda unmoved and unbelieving of it.
Either way, to do it without a c stick is hard cause it is all in how you jump and stuff or press it.
I use tap jump so I occasionally get it accidentally on the 3DS just by the motion I do sometimes.

Nah, but I am sorry dude.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Wait.

Legitimate question here - how do you spinshot in Smash 4? In Brawl I always used to Down + B then C Stick Up but there's no C Stick in Smash 4...is it a Side B only thing now?

 

[BlueTerrorist]

You could spinshot in Brawl with side-B by hitting jump just ever so slightly after letting go of the side-B. That method is still in smash4 iirc.

I forgot about that lol, so used to C-Stick for it. With that, I'm ready for Oct. 3rd. Thanks .

 

[True Blue]

From what someone told me on the 3DS they had done it by pressing the A button and they said timing was key. So try that out. I am gonna assume that there A button is naturally what A is supposed to be. lol.
Cause I soooo changed my controls to make it feel more like a gamecube mote.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I love that you can do side b and jump while still charging. It doesn't count as finishing the charge though so you can still shield cancel. Just hop around in a charge and cancel if it looks like you can't use it without getting hit. It's pretty great.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

As long as you dont jump offstage with it by accident. Because it locks you into the charge forever and you die.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

So, I was playing against some DDD trying to spam gordo's. So I decided to see how easy/hard it was to use side b invincy frames through them. Well, not only is it incredibly easy, but it launches the gordo's back at DDD.. lol. The thing flies back at him as fast as you spin at him. It's ridiculous. Does this work with all items? Side b 2 gud?

 

[XLR8TION]

Yeah.......free isdr tho T.T

 

[True Blue]

I think the Gordo one is not as strict than other items because after you do enough damage to the Gordo it is considered yours, which makes it easy to side B through.

 

[Camalange]

We need to make a FAQ thread. I'd be willing to make it if we can all agree to that because I'm reading like all the same questions in every thread.

Also spinshot is 100% undeniably in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS. You can spinshot from both side and down b. Both require you inputting a jump at a certain point during each spindash.

The easiest method I've found so far is by doing it out of side b, and rolling your thumb off b to a at the right time. The timing on down b seems a little trickier for me.

But yeah. There it is. Give it a (spin)shot.

 

[infomon]

I'm finding the new limitations on Sonic's moveset.... awkward. Still just trying things out though. I suppose a thorough moveset breakdown will happen very soon.

- You can only use Homing Attack once per jump, and if it bounces off the ground, that still counts as "used".
- If you SDJ then you don't have a second jump, that's just dumb.
- We need a name for the spindash jump you get before you launch the spindash, because this is something different than SDJ, but very similar.
- In the E3 demo, spindashes would autosnap edges, but that's completely gone now

10laggybairs

 

[Camalange]

I suppose a thorough moveset breakdown will happen very soon.

Yeah, we're gonna need this.

It's unfortunate because I've read a lot of information various places but the main post still looks very general.

I noticed too the lack of side b snap... /hype

 

[Sonic Orochi]

lol it's like no one read that list I posted on that other topic

 

[Camalange]

lol it's like no one read that list I posted on that other topic

Oh trust me, I have. I very much so value the work put in.

But this happens to be the stickied thread so... Something isn't adding up. That's the point I'm making.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

The missing jump out of sdj has ****ed with my head countless times. Glad to know that's real and I'm not going crazy. Outside of that, I've enjoyed everything else. Minus no asc shield cancel. F-throw kills make me giggle.

 

[infomon]

- We need a name for the spindash jump you get before you launch the spindash, because this is something different than SDJ, but very similar.

Nevermind, I am completely stupid

Almost as stupid as..... whatever moron invented Sonic's moveset this time around. What were they thinking???

Side-B, while charging, if you jump (the magical fake-VSDJ before you release the spindash), you're in "I'm completely freakin useless little ball of death!!!" state. You literally can do nothing at all until you hit the ground! You jump off the stage you are literally dead you cannot escape your spinning ball! Not after 2s, not ever!

WHY IS THIS A THING

SDJ's VSDJ / immediate-SDJ seem like normal SDJs.

 

[Camalange]

So, I was playing against some DDD trying to spam gordo's. So I decided to see how easy/hard it was to use side b invincy frames through them. Well, not only is it incredibly easy, but it launches the gordo's back at DDD.. lol. The thing flies back at him as fast as you spin at him. It's ridiculous. Does this work with all items? Side b 2 gud?

Oh I missed this.
I also went through a Gordo with Down B... Interesting. Can't remember if I sent it back or not but I definitely was unaffected by it.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

I think I remember duck hunt frisbees being able to be sent back as well. I don't remember though. Side b on gordos is clutch though lol. DDD is better off just not using them.

 

[infomon]

Nevermind, I am completely stupid

Almost as stupid as..... whatever moron invented Sonic's moveset this time around. What were they thinking???

Side-B, while charging, if you jump (the magical fake-VSDJ before you release the spindash), you're in "I'm completely freakin useless little ball of death!!!" state. You literally can do nothing at all until you hit the ground! You jump off the stage you are literally dead you cannot escape your spinning ball! Not after 2s, not ever!

WHY IS THIS A THING

SDJ's VSDJ / immediate-SDJ seem like normal SDJs.

Well, at least it shield-cancels, and it has nice aerial-mobility, but I can't escape the feelilng that while it's a fun way to bounce around the stage, it's kinda inferior to SDJ.

It's unfortunate that we called down-B Spin Charge (SC), even though we called the roll you get after it SpinDashRoll (SDR) and its jump SpinDashJump (SDJ), meanwhile side-B is Spin Dash (SD). Because now we have the jump that comes from an SDR (SDJ and VSDJ), which you can do from an SC (jump or attack input) or from an SD (attack input only). And we also have the strange SD-charging-on-the-ground jump-input I'm-in-a-bouncy-ball-and-I-can't-get-out jump. But that's side-B (SD) only but we can't call it an SDJ. If maybe all along we had referred to SDR/SDJ as SCR/SCJ instead, then this new thing could have been SDJ in contrast, but it's too late for that. So now we have this new thing..... what can we call it??

Since you're basically just stuck in a stupid ball with high aerial mobility (but can't fastfall it (we can still fastfall SDJs)), can we call it an SDB: SpinDashBall? Any better ideas? That kinda sucks

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I know that SDR acts differently now but I think that the SDR is just SDR: be it from SC or SD. Even the game acknowledges this by cutting the height on both rolls if you equip SD3.

I haven't tested it yet but I think they may still share stale move negation after all.

About the charge jump: I think it's kinda cool that we have it, but it's not that useful. It's kinda okay to jump over projectiles while retaining the charge but that's about it. Once everyone knows about it's mechanic, we're gonna be screwed once we start jumping around while charging.. The move looks extremely punishable if you know exactly how it works.

 

[Kinzer]

*Snip.*

Simple is good. I was honestly thinking Spin Dash Jump Hold. I'm just trying to differentiate the fact that this jumping ball form retains the current charge / power in that Spin Dash and can be acted upon landing.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

We need to make a FAQ thread. I'd be willing to make it if we can all agree to that because I'm reading like all the same questions in every thread.

Also spinshot is 100% undeniably in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS. You can spinshot from both side and down b. Both require you inputting a jump at a certain point during each spindash.

The easiest method I've found so far is by doing it out of side b, and rolling your thumb off b to a at the right time. The timing on down b seems a little trickier for me.

But yeah. There it is. Give it a (spin)shot.

Ummm yeah it's in. Why are people even questioning this? Lol

 

[Camalange]

Ummm yeah it's in. Why are people even questioning this? Lol

Because, ya know, internet.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Dair footstool is just too strong >:3 I've made soooo many early KO's using it. Villagers side B gets bodied by it as does little mac's. And it trades with robin's up-b making them get spiked while you bounce up taking minimal %. Haven't managed to dair spike falco or fox out of side b just yet, but it WILL happen.

That and quadruple Uair strings are just lolz. I love how bouncing on your own spring after planting it on the ground restores not only your ability to double jump but the ability to spring as well, makes our aerials juggles so much easier and devastating.

 

[Camalange]

The space animals can UpB after their SideB now too. The SideB also cuts itself short at the ledge if you do it onstage, preventing you from illusioning to your death from the ground. Just things to keep in mind when edgeguarding.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

yea its something i need to adjust too. though spring works wonders in for glory due to the fact that most stages have walls which means if they miss the ledge they fall, i drop a spring, they try to up-b and get hit and fall just short of the ledge. That or i time an edge grab just after they to do bump them off and then Bair. Also being able to kill with bthrow and upsmash now makes punishing aerials approaches and dash attacks so much more rewarding.