Q&A Hint Block: Yoshi Question and Answer Thread

[Ryusuta]

As Nikes mentioned, yes, you can easily up B before double jumping. A lot of Yoshi players prefer to disable tap jump for this very reason.

I play with tap jump on, but that actually doesn't stop you from being able to do it. There's a few different ways with tap jump to do it. The most immediate way is to do a "tilt" up B. Yes, actually tilt the stick upwards as if you were doing an up tilt in the air and press B. With practice, this becomes very easy. You can also buffer into pressing up during lag or hitstun and it won't use your second jump.

 

[LittlePac]

You know you can test this in like 5 seconds, right?

 

[Asphidel]

Hey, so maybe this is a silly question, and it's a tiny bit off topic, but you said you use 'y' for short hops. Is there some way to set 'y' to short hop while leaving 'x' a normal jump button? Because that'd be a super neat thing to do to my control scheme.

 

[hariooo]

Not sure what the correct technical term is

 

[Sinister Slush]

Double Jump Cancel/Dragonic Reverse.
No he doesn't because his DJ doesn't dip down anymore so our only DJ cancels we can do is basically our specials outside of Neutral B.

 

[shapular]

Hey, so maybe this is a silly question, and it's a tiny bit off topic, but you said you use 'y' for short hops. Is there some way to set 'y' to short hop while leaving 'x' a normal jump button? Because that'd be a super neat thing to do to my control scheme.

Nope. There's no short hop button option.

I didn't play Yoshi in Brawl so I didn't know about this technique either, but it's been really useful for me. It makes Yoshi pretty beast at footsies.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Short hop is basically just tapping your jump button lightly and not holding it down, that's all. Holding it down is of course a full hop.

 

[Nikes]

Hey, so maybe this is a silly question, and it's a tiny bit off topic, but you said you use 'y' for short hops. Is there some way to set 'y' to short hop while leaving 'x' a normal jump button? Because that'd be a super neat thing to do to my control scheme.

Nope. That would be like having two control sticks, one for running and one for walking. Just have to practice your consistency.

I actually use X for standard aerials and Y for special aerials.

 

[Masonomace]

This should be stickied : (.

Anywho since I'm here, questions:

• What is Yoshi's quickest frame Taunt?
  
  
• What is Yoshi's longest frame Taunt?
  
  
• What's your favorite Taunt?
  
  
• Does Yoshi's tongue still have a tipper area that forces the opponent to be command grabbed, but not Egg Layed? And can we still footstool out of it like Yoshi could in Brawl?
  
  
• Jab-1 > Yoshi Bomb guaranteed? (I played a lot of Smash 3DS yesterday since I don't own the game, but the times I used the input, it seemed to be guaranteed)
  
  
• Can Yoshi buffer a SH > B-air & land with N-air?

 

[Sinister Slush]

Not gonna answer the taunt ones cause dunno.

Yoshi's tongue still indeed grabs people but doesn't egglay them, but they added (I think?) some change where he swallows them this time but they don't become an egg. We still get free hits.

Not too sure on Jab>DownB since our Jab hits em up kinda now, but Jab>Usmash is a thing definitely for us now.

No Yoshi can't SH Bair>Nair anymore because they increased the landing lag of the move by 10 whole frames, so even Bair spam in general isn't as good anymore in trade for it being a spike/kill move.

 

[Masonomace]

Not gonna answer the taunt ones cause dunno.

Yoshi's tongue still indeed grabs people but doesn't egglay them, but they added (I think?) some change where he swallows them this time but they don't become an egg. We still get free hits.

Not too sure on Jab>DownB since our Jab hits em up kinda now, but Jab>Usmash is a thing definitely for us now.

No Yoshi can't SH Bair>Nair anymore because they increased the landing lag of the move by 10 whole frames, so even Bair spam in general isn't as good anymore in trade for it being a spike/kill move.

Thanks for all of your answers. I was aware of the Jab-1 > U-smash & I dig it. I played 3 hours of 1v1 with a friend in-person, & only played Yoshi once so not much to test on-the-fly.

I like Yoshi, but Lucario & Shulk are my focus for now. I may in the future have more commitment put into Yoshi, for the lack-of from the 3 previous Smash games.

One last question:

• Is Egg Roll off-screen helpful for surviving? (similar to using Egg Roll in Brawl to momentum cancel when over-stage & vertically launched)

 

[Sinister Slush]

I don't have the game but I believe momentum cancelling is out of Smash 4 so using Eggroll to cancel that doesn't work anymore, don't take my word for it though.

 

[Lavani]

Not too sure on Jab>DownB since our Jab hits em up kinda now, but Jab>Usmash is a thing definitely for us now.

Is there a trick to jab→usmash? I've only managed to get it to connect as a true combo once, and the usmash seems to whiff a lot (trying this against Sheik in training). Can confirm jab→downB combos, it seems a lot easier to connect than the former to me.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I believe the DownB doesn't work as much cause people can DI (**** VI, I'll call it that when they're surviving kill moves while near the blastzone only) away from it while Usmash has more range, more reliable, and less risky when missed compared to DownB.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

This should be stickied : (.

Anywho since I'm here, questions:

• What is Yoshi's quickest frame Taunt?
  
  
• What is Yoshi's longest frame Taunt?
  
  
• What's your favorite Taunt?
  
  
• Does Yoshi's tongue still have a tipper area that forces the opponent to be command grabbed, but not Egg Layed? And can we still footstool out of it like Yoshi could in Brawl?
  
  
• Jab-1 > Yoshi Bomb guaranteed? (I played a lot of Smash 3DS yesterday since I don't own the game, but the times I used the input, it seemed to be guaranteed)
  
  
• Can Yoshi buffer a SH > B-air & land with N-air?

1. Down probably
2. Side probably?
3. Down lol, i like to do it after someone screen bounces
4. uhhh might not be a tipper anymore, but it does still exist. Works kinda differently but you might be able to get a footstool out of it
5. yeah but the percents are different. And its less reliable
6. nope
7. Skip out on eggroll for eggroll if you want to do that with it. Probably a waste of time.
8. Ayy a sticky. Did we get a mod? Lol

 

[Sinister Slush]

No I just asked if I could be the mod but Shaya did a much better job a mod could've done since Senator once I told him what to move and such.

 

[BadKarma]

What are some good uses for side B? besides random mix ups? It just seems like there are better options to use in all circumstances other than side B.

 

[Terotrous]

Egg Roll can clank projectiles, but honestly I'd rather just hop over them with Short Hop Up B so I can fire back. Pretty much the only time I use Egg Roll is by accident.

 

[Slice~]

You can use Eggroll for surprise gimping now.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Asside from getting offstage really quickly its uses are all outclassed by something else. and by something else i mean dash attack. its seriously just dash attack with more commitment involved lol. Its best use imo is its utility with our teleports and slides and what not.

 

[Shiri]

You can use Eggroll for surprise gimping now.

Oh?

Asside from getting offstage really quickly its uses are all outclassed by something else. and by something else i mean dash attack. its seriously just dash attack with more commitment involved lol. Its best use imo is its utility with our teleports and slides and what not.

I agree about the comparison to dash attack. I do find a good use for Egg Roll, though, is on players who have not broken out of the habit of airdodging close to the ground. If you score a hit with Egg Roll at a low percent (somehow), you can get usually two or three more hits on those types of players for much more damage than a dash attack. I expect a tactic like this will only last me a few more months against low level players. At a higher level, I'm interested to see if Egg Roll has any serious uses (keeping my fingers crossed for Heavy Egg!).

The eggroll shot thing. Gets you offstage faster and further than just shorthopping off.

Ohhhhhhhhhhh cool.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

The eggroll shot thing. Gets you offstage faster and further than just shorthopping off.

 

[Slice~]

Yeah, you can get some ridiculous horizontal speed some people can't react to. Yet.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Eggroll surprise gimping?
Is it cause if we were to say chase somebody offstage with a jump from eggroll, would it spike them or something instead of knocking them vertically a tad \ /

Also I forget either in my thread or the social, but we were talking about how shielding eggroll is bad for us, but none of us brought up the fact that we can Jump while in eggroll so (yeah DA is still a better and safer thing to do lol) even if they shield it we can mix it up and just hop away from them as soon as we hit their shield.

It's gimmicky but we need to find silly ways to punish people with the eggroll jump hitbox since I'm pretty sure the hitbox for it isn't like this anymore,

 

[tyhiggz]

I recently played a ness that was thrashing me. I ended up being able to out-zone him, but it was ugly.
PK Fire was catching me less over time, but it was still so punishing when he got a grab.
Ideally I wouldn't get hit by it, but what is Yoshi's best option while still in the PK Fire? Jabs didn't seem to work to keep him off the grab.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I remember a couple weeks ago Ness was brought up somewhere in the Yoshi boards and I said something like Ness UpB got so buffed Yoshi eggs don't destroy it anymore.
I was wrong tho thankfully, we still can. To add on by answering higgz in a sense. We can still DJ out of PK fire to avoid getting grabbed.

 

[BadKarma]

Who would you consider to be some of yoshis worst matchups? The only one I'm having trouble with is lucario but I feel like I'm just struggling with it due to lack of MU experience. I'm trying to figure out if I want to have a secondary to cover some bad matchups, or if yoshi's "worst matchups" are not bad enough to really need one.

I feel like yoshi has enough options to handle pretty much any character with smart playing, but I havent had a whole lot of experience against really good players yet in smash 4, so I was wondering what you guys think his worst matchups are.

 

[Slice~]

Rosalina and Villager.

Rosalina breaks our whole Grabbing game due to her minion.

Villager has one of the best aerial disengages with his FAir and BAir.
It's pretty much impossible to approach a villager from the side.
Also it actually is impossible to approach him from above, as his turnips are ****in' op.
Villager is a pain in the ass.

 

[yoshi8984]

I don't own the game, but I saw this really weird glitch with a friend with Egg Toss; when Yoshi jumps up from the ledge, and does 2-3 Egg Tosses, when you land with an Egg Toss, upon throwing the 2nd or 3rd one, you apparently teleport. Has this been discovered by you guys? Tap Jump was disabled for my friend, but it still worked even when he would use his Double Jump, so I would assume it still works. Perhaps this could be used for mindgames and throwing Eggs safely? (Assuming it won't get patched, which it likely would)

-

In addition, I saw another weird glitch where my friend did the Yoshi Bomb, then uses one of his Egg Toss customs (the one where he sacrifices the Eggs for a higher boost) and he just SKYROCKETS. I'm not sure if you just input Up-B after the Yoshi Bomb landing, or do a shorthop and then do the Empty Egg Toss.

Man I wish I had footage of this so you guys can see it in action.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Both has been known and found months ago.
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-yoshi-labs.370979/

 

[BadKarma]

Does anyone know the exact mechanics of yoshis super armor on his double jump? I was playing a jigglypuff player last night and when I was trying to recover I threw 2 eggs, then tried to just double jump back on stage because he was spamming D-tilt. About half way through my my double jump he D-tilts me and I go flying off to the blast zones. I know I've double jumped through little macs smashes before so I don't know what happened.

 

[Slice~]

The superarmor does not work if your %'s are too high.
It's a relation between the attack's knockback you want to tank, and your already taken percents.

 

[BadKarma]

SERIOUSLY!!......well guess I'm recovering high from now on lol

 

[Scatz]

Not super armor. Super armor does not get broken. Yoshi gains heavy armor that's damage or knockback dependent. So the higher percent you're at, the easier it is to get knocked out of the DJ.

 

[Airborne]

Scatz is right, it's knockback dependent like it was in all previous iterations, including PM. The issue is that some multi-hit moves that have immense knockback, in order to guarantee following moves to connect, have the ability to knock Yoshi out of his armor somewhat early (Piston punch, possibly Sheik's uair, etc.). An example of this is that Ike's UpB in PM is aqble to knock Yoshi out of the heavy armor at 0% because the initial hit has huge knockback, in order to guarantee the succeeding hits from the sword, when it's spinning.

 

[Slice~]

Ah, right, heavy armor!
Thanks Biggie Senpai!

 

[Nikes]

The worst thing is being knocked out of your DJ by multi-hit jabs on the ledge and you die early cause of it =_= There are ways around it of course like not being in that position in the first place but still. It'd be good if we could find out how much our heavy armour can take before it 'breaks'.

 

[Airborne]

The only way that multi-hit jabs or jab flurries will knock us out of our heavy armor is if:
1) We end the armor by inputting something during the double jump (aerials, air dodges, specials, footstool), although this isn't technically getting knocked out of our armor, it's us just ending the armor at the wrong time.
2) We get hit by the final hit of the jab flurry and it has enough knockback to break our armor.

In situations like that, I highly just take as many hits as possible until you find a window to punish with an aerial or land and punish with downb, usmash, fsmash, etc.

 

[noxmiles]

So, this is perhaps a more general question, but I have to ask: how do I punish excessive rolling and dashing attacking/grabbing (read: Little Mac)? Everyone seems to be able to act out of rolls more quickly than I remember. It sounds like I need to react quicker, but there's still the question of "how", particularly with yoshi

 

[Airborne]

I believe we touched base on how to punish rolls in the Social Thread recently. If not, it should be one of the other primary threads, on one of the last 2-3 pages. The main gist of it is to condition them into rolling with moves/patterns/etc., that have virtually no commitment. Dash Attack, Egg Roll, Dash Usmash, Dash DownB, and Egg Toss can be used to punish retreating rolls, while Nair, Dsmash, DownB, and Fsmash are useful for punishing advancing/roll-behind rolls.

Anyways, according to Judo about the frame data posted, the dodge rolls are only slightly modified in this game in relation to Brawl's. In fact, everything just happens one frame later (1 frame faster on startup, the invincible/intangible frames start 1 frame faster and end 1 frame sooner, and the ending lag ends 1 frame sooner).